New 2010 LaCrosse pictures

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So if Buick is to battle Lincoln, what now with Cadillac?

Since we all know that the future of cadillac is going to be stellar (sarcasm)

How long until Cadillac decides that Buick is the new Pontiac?

[The O.C.]

The ES doesn't really compete with the CTS, IMO. Perhaps slightly, but really the ES's only competition is the TL, both of which sell pretty well. Passat also competes slightly perhaps. ES sells well because it satisfies a relatively big market (people who want a FWD luxury car because they're scared to drive RWD in snow, but don't want a barge, ie DTS) and has relatively few competitors. Not saying the LaCrosse will come in and take a large chunk of sales or outsell it at the same price, but part of the reason the ES sells so well is the competition, or lack thereof.

Ah ha....but here is where reality differs from what us car industry enthusiasts think......coming from someone working AT a Caddy lot, ES is MAJOR competition for CTS. REGARDLESS of drivetrain. It's priced very similarly....and in fact, just over the last month, we've taken in 3 ESs on trade for CTSs (this is good news)......an '02, an '04, and an '07.

Passat isn't even on the register of people looking at CTS.

Just my observations over 4 months here at a Caddy store.....

Regarding new LaCrosse.....I'll wager money......this car will fill the same slot as the outgoing car.....mid-to-high 20's to mid-30's (MAX).....and will not attract Lexus buyers.....plus, as already mentioned, FWD Lincolns start at around $37K and max out at almost $46K......hell, you have to be in a Super to be that pricey in a Lucerne.

I'm not saying it's going to be a bad car....I think the new LaCrosse will be a huge improvement over the current one. It's just that I find it funny all the grandiose ideas everyone has about where in the marketplace this vehicle is going to land......

[The O.C.]

I think the main competition for the LaCrosse is the Avalon,ES, Sable, perhaps the Azera..

+1

[VenSeattle]

Regarding new LaCrosse.....I'll wager money......this car will fill the same slot as the outgoing car...

Which LaCrosse? The US midsize sedan or the luxury sedan sold in China? Remember, this LaCrosse is replacing both.

mid-to-high 20's to mid-30's (MAX).....

Current LaCrosse: Base MSRP: $24,250 - $32,380

Current Lucerne: Base MSRP: $27,275 - $38,980

Which one will it be replacing? One or the other? Both?

and will not attract Lexus buyers.....

Hmmm... Enclave has. Why shouldn't the LaCrosse if it's good enough?

plus, as already mentioned, FWD Lincolns start at around $37K and max out at almost $46K......hell, you have to be in a Super to be that pricey in a Lucerne.

FWD Lincolns start around $32k (Lincoln MKz Base MSRP: $32,155 - $34,045) and up to $40k without options (MKsBase MSRP: $37,665 - $39,555). Lincoln is also considering a smaller compact (4-cyl?) which will allow Lincoln to drop the entry price even further. (starting to look a lot like Buick's price model insn't it?)

I'm not saying it's going to be a bad car....I think the new LaCrosse will be a huge improvement over the current one. It's just that I find it funny all the grandiose ideas everyone has about where in the marketplace this vehicle is going to land......

Grandiose? For Buick to compete with a Lincoln? Come-on...The two brands have been cross-shopped for years. I know several people in Texas that have switched between the 2 brands (Riviera against Mark-series, LeSabres & Park Avenues against Continentals.) Both brands have appealed and catered to a less pretentious clientele for quite some time. We'll know more once stats and prices are announced, but the new LaCrosse appears more inline to replace the Lucerne with the Insignia-based Regal to fill the spot of the current LaCrosse. As I've said before, I don't expect Buick to be as expensive as the Lincoln competition, but I expect the pricing to be closer than it has been in the past.

I'll take your wager. We can discuss terms offline... :AH-HA_wink:

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Which LaCrosse? The US midsize sedan or the luxury sedan sold in China? Remember, this LaCrosse is replacing both.

Current LaCrosse: Base MSRP: $24,250 - $32,380

Current Lucerne: Base MSRP: $27,275 - $38,980

Which one will it be replacing? One or the other? Both?

Hmmm... Enclave has. Why shouldn't the LaCrosse if it's good enough?

FWD Lincolns start around $32k (Lincoln MKz Base MSRP: $32,155 - $34,045) and up to $40k without options (MKsBase MSRP: $37,665 - $39,555). Lincoln is also considering a smaller compact (4-cyl?) which will allow Lincoln to drop the entry price even further. (starting to look a lot like Buick's price model insn't it?)

Grandiose? For Buick to compete with a Lincoln? Come-on...The two brands have been cross-shopped for years. I know several people in Texas that have switched between the 2 brands (Riviera against Mark-series, LeSabres & Park Avenues against Continentals.) Both brands have appealed and catered to a less pretentious clientele for quite some time. We'll know more once stats and prices are announced, but the new LaCrosse appears more inline to replace the Lucerne with the Insignia-based Regal to fill the spot of the current LaCrosse. As I've said before, I don't expect Buick to be as expensive as the Lincoln competition, but I expect the pricing to be closer than it has been in the past.

The new Lacrosse is replacing all three, the Lacrosse sold in China- the North America Lacrosse-and the Lucerne , and part replacement of the Park Avenue in China( the other part of the replacement is the very likely Buick Alpha which will replace the Insignia-based Regal).

[frogger]

If it is a ES350 competitor, hopefully it has similiar features that make the Lexus ES competitive in the entry lux category vs just being a wood filled quiet driving refined car.. including the top notch interior materials and switchgear, stereo (Mark Levinson), panoramic roof (not the $h!ty embarassing problematic GM one), rain sense wipers, laser adaptive cruise etc.

[The O.C.]

I'll take your wager. We can discuss terms offline... :AH-HA_wink:

Oh, I can't WAIT to give you my "terms" for if you lose......

[trinacriabob]

Like someone said, how many Lexus clones do we need?

I like the dash a lot, but I don't like the rest of it very much.

[Robert Hall]

Like someone said, how many Lexus clones do we need?

I like the dash a lot, but I don't like the rest of it very much.

Well, Lexus is the market leader (top selling luxury brand in the US), so it's inevitable that they will be copied...

[buyacargetacheck]

This will be a good car no doubt -- as much of an improvement over the current car as the new Malibu was over the old one. However, Buick will never challenge Lexus because of the lackluster quality of the dealers. There might have been a chance to counter this, but that was before Buick was combined with a truck brand and a has-been budget brand. Buick buyers just won't be able to get Lexus-levels of customer service on a consistent basis. That's not to say there aren't some excellent Buick dealers. There are. But the customer experience is inconsistent - it changes from one dealer to the next.

[cire]

This will be a good car no doubt -- as much of an improvement over the current car as the new Malibu was over the old one. However, Buick will never challenge Lexus because of the lackluster quality of the dealers. There might have been a chance to counter this, but that was before Buick was combined with a truck brand and a has-been budget brand. Buick buyers just won't be able to get Lexus-levels of customer service on a consistent basis. That's not to say there aren't some excellent Buick dealers. There are. But the customer experience is inconsistent - it changes from one dealer to the next.

That's why I still don't quite understand the Saturn experiment. If GM saw that a large chunk of the buying public was abandoning the corporation's products due to subpar vehicles and unacceptable levels of customer service, why didn't it establish initiatives and strategies within the existing brand structure to address those issues? Why did it choose to launch Saturn or buy Saab (which was a troubled company when GM purchased it) and Hummer for that matter? It seems like GM would have realized that if the corporation couldn't fix the problems with its existing 6 brands, then it sure as heck was going to struggle even more by taking on 3 additional brands. GM would have been better off by thinking outside of the box to fix the existing brands instead of attempting to create a new box. For the Saturn experiment to be considered a success, its supposedly pioneering customer service concepts would have eventually spread to all of GM's divisions. It obviously hasn't happened if the customer service experience is still inconsistent throughout GM's dealer network. Now GM has 8 divisions that they have to try to manage while addressing some of the same issues it was facing before it launched "A Different Kind of Car Company". I don't hate Saturn, I just don't understand the thought process that brought about its existence. It seems like most of the concepts that Saturn was supposed to represent could have been implemented without GM launching another division.

I also don't quite understand the line of thought that dictates that a person who purchases an economical car or a truck should receive a lower level of customer service than a person who purchases a premium or luxury vehicle. Excellent service should be provided to all customers in an attempt to retain loyalty and expand the business. A person who purchases an economy car today might be a future premium/luxury vehicle customer tomorrow.

[buyacargetacheck]

The GM of the early 1980s was still organized around the traditional divisions until Roger Smith forced the 1984 reorg into Large Car and Small Car-Canada groups. Before the reorg the Japanese were coming on strong. First, the 1979 energy crisis came along and people started trading in their American guzzler "boats" for Mazda GLCs and Toyota Corollas like crazy. Then, Reagan established the Voluntary Import Quotas to help the Big Four, and Honda responded with the Marysville, OH plant. So, Roger Smith figured that speed was of the essence and that the only way to circumvent the fiefdoms within the old divisional structure was to create Saturn, a separate car company. That, in a nutshell, is why the traditional GM divisions didn't compete directly with the Toyota, Honda, etc until very recently. The organization was too intrenched.

By the time the first Saturns came out they were much improved over the J-cars that GM had been offering (DOHC, innovative plastic construction, interesting design) but they were still behind the Corolla and Civic in several areas especially refinement. But buyers overlooked this because of the excellent customer service and touchy feely ad campaign. Saturn was never profitable and required much subsidization by GM. Along comes Lutz, his fascination with Opel, and the rest is history.

Regarding customer service and low-priced cars, I agree with you. But the car business is and has forever been plagued by overproduction and over-distribution. Car selling is an odious business whether you're selling Mercedes or Chevys. It's all about moving the metal because the factories have to keep cranking the junk out (remember, all cars break down, lose their value quickly, and are eventually junked). Low-priced cars, by definition, have a slimmer profit margin than expensive ones. There is only so much service manpower than can be reserved for these kinds of cars and their buyers if the dealer wants to earn a profit. It sucks, but it's important to keep the car business in perspective.

That's why I still don't quite understand the Saturn experiment. If GM saw that a large chunk of the buying public was abandoning the corporation's products due to subpar vehicles and unacceptable levels of customer service, why didn't it establish initiatives and strategies within the existing brand structure to address those issues? Why did it choose to launch Saturn or buy Saab (which was a troubled company when GM purchased it) and Hummer for that matter? It seems like GM would have realized that if the corporation couldn't fix the problems with its existing 6 brands, then it sure as heck was going to struggle even more by taking on 3 additional brands. GM would have been better off by thinking outside of the box to fix the existing brands instead of attempting to create a new box. For the Saturn experiment to be considered a success, its supposedly pioneering customer service concepts would have eventually spread to all of GM's divisions. It obviously hasn't happened if the customer service experience is still inconsistent throughout GM's dealer network. Now GM has 8 divisions that they have to try to manage while addressing some of the same issues it was facing before it launched "A Different Kind of Car Company". I don't hate Saturn, I just don't understand the thought process that brought about its existence. It seems like most of the concepts that Saturn was supposed to represent could have been implemented without GM launching another division.

I also don't quite understand the line of thought that dictates that a person who purchases an economical car or a truck should receive a lower level of customer service than a person who purchases a premium or luxury vehicle. Excellent service should be provided to all customers in an attempt to retain loyalty and expand the business. A person who purchases an economy car today might be a future premium/luxury vehicle customer tomorrow.

Edited September 28, 2008 by buyacargetacheck

[buickguy]

There are more new pictures in today's autonews.com (9/29) if anyone is a member and can post them. Looks like a cool color.

[Paolino]

There are more new pictures in today's autonews.com (9/29) if anyone is a member and can post them. Looks like a cool color.

What is the color?

[The O.C.]

This will be a good car no doubt -- as much of an improvement over the current car as the new Malibu was over the old one. However, Buick will never challenge Lexus because of the lackluster quality of the dealers. There might have been a chance to counter this, but that was before Buick was combined with a truck brand and a has-been budget brand. Buick buyers just won't be able to get Lexus-levels of customer service on a consistent basis. That's not to say there aren't some excellent Buick dealers. There are. But the customer experience is inconsistent - it changes from one dealer to the next.

Hell it could even be argued that there are few Caddy dealers that truly match Lexus' dealership standards.....

[ocnblu]

On top of all that who's to say all LEXUS dealers are top notch?

[buyacargetacheck]

True, I have read some shocking comments about a Lexus dealer in my area. However, JD Power does rank Lexus slightly above Buick and Cadillac in sales satisfaction. On the other hand, Cadillac and Buick (and Lincoln and Mercury) consistently rank high too in sales and service satisfaction overall. One area where Lexus shines is dealership facilities. However, this could change when you consider that Lexus is nearing its 20th birthday. Most of the Lexus showrooms that I've seen look pretty much the same as the initial design 20 years ago.

On top of all that who's to say all LEXUS dealers are top notch?

[buickguy]

it was a greenish blue. if you go to autonews.con and punch in buick it pops up

[Paolino]

it was a greenish blue. if you go to autonews.con and punch in buick it pops up

I wonder if it is that Mystic Sapphire Tricoat thing that is on the Lucerne for 2009.

[InvictaMan]

Maybe these have already been posted elsewhere, but here are some newer pics from Edmunds.

Link

A broader selection at Autoblog...

Link

First time seeing the butt straight on — nice, strong presence.

Edited October 21, 2008 by InvictaMan

[daves87rs]

Not bad...

[ToniCipriani]

I'm hoping they're not pulling an IS-F on those tailpipes. I think I see an actual pipe behind the bumper integrated exhaust.

But I'll see how it is on the actual car.

[Chicagoland]

Best thing about it is the new Ep2 platform. Finally retiring the 21 year old 'W'.

[Paolino]

Best thing about it is the new Ep2 platform. Finally retiring the 21 year old 'W'.

And the 3800/4-speed auto combo.

[Robert Hall]

Best thing about it is the new Ep2 platform. Finally retiring the 21 year old 'W'.

I'm sure the W will live on for another decade or so with the Impala.

[InvictaMan]

I'm hoping they're not pulling an IS-F on those tailpipes. I think I see an actual pipe behind the bumper integrated exhaust.

Took at look at the pics up close Toni, and it looks to be the real thing. You can see the mufflers and the pipe leading from them to the exhaust tip.

[Paolino]

Arg. It's November in a week and we have yet to see official photos and a press release.

[Drew Dowdell]

Release is now delayed

[Paolino]

Oh sweet Jesus.

[smk4565]

Maybe the current car will soldier on for the 2010 model year, and keep the 3800/4-speed combo for another year. A Buick just isn't a Buick unless it is old and dated.

[ToniCipriani]

I don't quite get the logic... Isn't it better to accelerate it to the market and start selling them earlier? How does delaying save money?

[Robert Hall]

I don't quite get the logic... Isn't it better to accelerate it to the market and start selling them earlier? How does delaying save money?

Well, it costs money to set up displays at the auto show, to ship prototypes there, etc....sounds like they are delaying those expenses in the short term..

[smk4565]

It doesn't save money, they probably cut staff or cut back on the car in the development process trying to save money, and now it isn't ready.

Maybe they have very little for the Detroit auto show and want to release the CTS coupe and LaCrosse there, figuring they'll go on sale late winter or early spring. Although if I were GM, I would be working to get great product out fast, because on their current path, bankruptcy is in their future.

[thegriffon]

What they are doing is not launching the car in LA with an expensive press junket. Instead they will wait for Detroit where more journalists will travel on their own expense and launch it as part of the broader GM unveilings.

[VenSeattle]

It doesn't save money, they probably cut staff or cut back on the car in the development process trying to save money, and now it isn't ready.

It's only a delay in unveiling the production version... I don't see anything indicating production has been delayed. The LaCrosse still goes into production in February'09. I think it's better for GM to "unveil" the production vehicle closer to launch. Isn’t that something we've been criticizing GM for not doing???

Come on guys... can't have it both ways.

[Paolino]

It's only a delay in unveiling the production version... I don't see anything indicating production has been delayed. The LaCrosse still goes into production in February'09. I think it's better for GM to "unveil" the production vehicle closer to launch. Isn’t that something we've been criticizing GM for not doing???

Come on guys... can't have it both ways.

Yes, but I've been patient and I want it now!! LOL

[gmcbob]

You know what would really get me super pumped? If they dropped the name LaCrosse and called this car the Buick Regal.

[smk4565]

If GM is this concerned about cost cutting and cutting corners with what auto show it is debuted at, you know they cut corners on the car itself.

[Paolino]

Not happening.

[MyerShift]

Ooh! I love the interior but feel that the door panels needs a bit more detail.

[gm4life]

Ever since the Lucerne I have had a renewed faith in Buick. When Pontiac did the GTO, Solstice and G8 I did too, at least I do for a while.

[gm4life]

And this car will be a block-buster for sure, say bye bye ES.

[The O.C.]

What they are doing is not launching the car in LA with an expensive press junket. Instead they will wait for Detroit where more journalists will travel on their own expense and launch it as part of the broader GM unveilings.

Well, in my opinion, somewhere like L.A. is where GM should showcase two important, and competitive, new offerings such as these.

It may have been a cost-cutting issue.....but Detroit, IMHO, is too predictable of a venue for debuting a new domestic automobile.

Showcasing these cars in Los Angeles, home of the imports, would be quite a strong message to send......the local media exposure in and of itself would be worth it.....and remember, L.A. gets just as much national and international media coverage as does Detroit.

IMO, I feel normal (non-enthusiast) consumers probably give a rat's ass what goes on at a Detroit auto show.....import buyers in the west coast, southeast, east coast, etc......probably don't even follow NAIAS.

[Robert Hall]

Well, in my opinion, somewhere like L.A. is where GM should showcase two important, and competitive, new offerings such as these.

It may have been a cost-cutting issue.....but Detroit, IMHO, is too predictable of a venue for debuting a new domestic automobile.

Showcasing these cars in Los Angeles, home of the imports, would be quite a strong message to send......the local media exposure in and of itself would be worth it.....and remember, L.A. gets just as much national and international media coverage as does Detroit.

IMO, I feel normal (non-enthusiast) consumers probably give a rat's ass what goes on at a Detroit auto show.....import buyers in the west coast, southeast, east coast, etc......probably don't even follow NAIAS.

Agreed...unveiling things at the NAIAS just perputates the image of Detroit and the Midwest as the GMNA's core market..

[smk4565]

And this car will be a block-buster for sure, say bye bye ES.

The Lexus ES usually outsells the CTS, I doubt Lexus is fearing anything coming from Buick. Plus Toyota has a mountain of money, whatever GM spent on the new LaCrosse, they can just spend twice as much and come out with a better car. Although I still believe the LaCrosse will be $26-33,000 and not compete with the ES anyway.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Lexus ES usually outsells the CTS, I doubt Lexus is fearing anything coming from Buick. Plus Toyota has a mountain of money, whatever GM spent on the new LaCrosse, they can just spend twice as much and come out with a better car. Although I still believe the LaCrosse will be $26-33,000 and not compete with the ES anyway.

And the CTS outsells the IS. Way to compare non-similar vehicles. The ES is lipstick on the Camry pig. The Lacrosse is the Malibu <already excellent in it's own right> with all the lessons learned from the CTS. If Toyota isn't worried about the Lacrosse, so much the better. Let them get caught with their pants down.

[frogger]

If the Buick wants to compete with the ES it better have more features than the ES, which already has heated/cooled seats, great audio system, top notch materials, pano glass roof, power cushion extend, HID, power sunshade, etc. The CTS drives/feels like a million bucks compared to the current Malibu, so unless Ep 2 is that much better, the Lacrosse better be quite a bit cheaper or have great features.

[smk4565]

And the CTS outsells the IS. Way to compare non-similar vehicles. The ES is lipstick on the Camry pig. The Lacrosse is the Malibu <already excellent in it's own right> with all the lessons learned from the CTS. If Toyota isn't worried about the Lacrosse, so much the better. Let them get caught with their pants down.

CTS and ES are the same size and price, although the drive train and ride firmness difference attracts different types of buyers. But my point was the CTS at $34,000 sells about 6,000 units a month. If the LaCrosse is $34,000 (like some here think it will be) how will they sell the same volume the CTS does? This car is no threat to Lexus, just as the old and ugly Lexus RX still crushes the Enclave in sales.

Buick is going after the Avalon, Sable and Azera (if it is still around) with this car. And there is nothing wrong with that, just don't tell me a $27,000 Buick is as good as a $37,000 Lexus.

[VenSeattle]

CTS and ES are the same size and price, although the drive train and ride firmness difference attracts different types of buyers. But my point was the CTS at $34,000 sells about 6,000 units a month. If the LaCrosse is $34,000 (like some here think it will be) how will they sell the same volume the CTS does? This car is no threat to Lexus, just as the old and ugly Lexus RX still crushes the Enclave in sales.

Buick is going after the Avalon, Sable and Azera (if it is still around) with this car. And there is nothing wrong with that, just don't tell me a $27,000 Buick is as good as a $37,000 Lexus.

If the 4-year old Lucerne can beat the ES in sales during this traumatic climate, then why can't a brand new Buick sedan?

Sept'08 sales:

Buick Lucerne - 6,239

Nissan Maxima - 4,996

Chrysler 300 - 4,287

Lexus ES350 - 4,042

Toyota Avalon - 3,404

Acura TL - 3,017

Lincoln MKS - 1,814

Hyundai Genesis - 1,029

Mercury Sable - 783

Volvo S80 - 578

Hyundai Azera - 483

Kia Amanti - 163

Lucerne is less than 7k for the year to match the ES as well:

Lexus ES Jan-Sept'08: 50,642

Buick Lucerne Jan-Sept'08: 43,839

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your Enclave comment...

Enclave Sept'08 sales: 5,171

Lexus RX Sept'08 sales: 4,639

RX sales have regularly trumped everything in its class, but the Enclave has exceeded expectations as a newcomer in the Luxury SUV/CUV market and beats just about everything else in the market:

2008 YTD sales:

Lexus RX - 63,219

Buick Enclave - 36,900

Acura MDX - 36,888

Mercedes ML - 25,498

BMW X5 - 24,663

Lincoln MKX - 23,977

Volvo XC90 - 15,292

Cadillac SRX - 12,863

Infiniti FX - 10,176

Audi Q7 - 10,107

VW Touareg - 5,477

The Enclave have been a GREAT success for Buick by any measurement. You're DELUSIONAL to believe anything else.

[InvictaMan]

For someone who is so bad at statistical data retention, I love it when someone else excels at it. Especially when it concerns Buick trumping Lexus.