Alpha Mail: Caddy's 3 Series rival is go

[Robert Hall]

91z: Alpha doesn't fit with Buick or Saturn. And Chevy needs it for the next Camaro. Pontiac should have it spread over its lineup the widest, as the platform fits perfectly with Pontiac's natural mission.

Unfortunately, Pontiac has drifted from any natural mission...the G8 and Solstice are the only models they have of significance, the rest of the line fullfills the current (and future, apparently) mission of providing cheap, sporty FWD rental cars.

[ocnblu]

It doesn't have to be that way. The platform is coming, it's not like it has to be dedicated to Pontiac only.

[Camino LS6]

Pontiac really ought to be an oasis of cool in the desert of blandmobiles.

The one brand that doesn't play by the rules.

I don't think that is asking too much.

[Robert Hall]

Pontiac really ought to be an oasis of cool in the desert of blandmobiles.

The one brand that doesn't play by the rules.

I don't think that is asking too much.

Yeah, sadly, that doesn't seem to fit with GM's mantra of all FWD generics, all the time (except for Cadillac and the Camaro and Corvette). GM is going back to the way it was in the late '90s, I think... all brands with many lines of overlapping FWD blandmobiles.

[Camino LS6]

I really like the idea of Pontiac as the "F-you" brand, the bad boy, in-your-face, politically incorrect, traditional American style brand.

We desperately need that somewhere, what better place than Pontiac?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The CTS is $10-15k more expensive than a G8, how is that competition? Some people might go down from the Cadillac to the Pontiac, but GM would get many more sales from people who can't afford the CTS. CTS also offers AWD.

Agreed...

I can't afford a Cadillac Alpha, but I would certainly be in the running for a Pontiac Alpha.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

As a loyal German GME soldier, I can honestly say, "I was only following orders!". :AH-HA_wink:

Isn't that the same mindset that made GM complacent in the first place? Old skool GM think from the 'old world' I suppose?

Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

They make sense, just not to you yet.

Saturn/Saab has Opel. Buick has China, Chevy is a world brand and needs no help. Cadillac, worldwide luxury brand. GMC has Chevy. Pontiac was going to be paired up with Holden, but in this economic/gasoline/green climate that idea is dead, so Pontiac and Holden are in freefall. Pontiac is an American brand only, that's bad, and Holden is losing a huge portion of their staff either through transfers or being laid off, and Holden's projects are being moved to other GM centers. Is the writing on the wall for Pontiac and Holden? That remains to be seen, but it's not looking good.

So... Why can't Holden and Pontiac operate as Vauxhall does?

Take cars/architecture from other divisions, restyle it and call it a day.

If Vauxhall can exist, then so too should Pontiac and Holden.

Pontiac worries me, but I really don't see Holden going anywhere. Will they be a leader in development like with Zeta? Probably not... But they'll still need products for their market and they'll either have to develop them alone (like back in the 90s) or team with someone. You can't just phase out Holden. In fact, I'd say there would be less outrage if Pontiac were phased out.

And the other part of this argument is; aren't Buick and Pontiac essentially one division? Couldn't they share architectures/platforms universally under each name? Holden pretty much is Buick in China FWIW. So why not tie up Holden, Buick AND Pontiac if the divisions are to be as "focused" as GM foretold?

Edited September 17, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Some people can be so blinded by loyalty that they can't see what is plainly to many models.

Try this on for size:

Caddy: Sedan, Wagon

Buick: Sedan

Pontiac: Coupe

Opel/Saturn: Wagon

TAKE 3:

Cadillac: Sedan & Coupe

Pontiac: Sedan and LIMITED volume coupe (as a halo)

Chevrolet: Coupe

The volume sedan comes from Pontiac and saves their ass, the volume coupe comes from Chevrolet, the Cadys are just iicing on the cake with big margins and the Pontiac coupe is a bone thrown to the true enthusiasts. Well shall call it GTO and it shall have a tweaked V8. And it shall have almost as high of a margin as the Caddys (Yes, the loyalists like myself and Camino would STILL buy it)

[91z4me]

Unfortunately, Pontiac has drifted from any natural mission...the G8 and Solstice are the only models they have of significance, the rest of the line fullfills the current (and future, apparently) mission of providing cheap, sporty FWD rental cars.

It is funny that you say that because lets be serious the Solstice and G8 have no significance in sales and really that is what matters. The G6 is taking off and being as it has been unchanged since it went on the market what 4 years ago. That right there is as good of a reason to stick w/ Epsilon for the next G6 and not switch to Alpha, which surely everyone can admit will have lower sales than an equivalent FWD Epsilon model.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Pontiac really ought to be an oasis of cool in the desert of blandmobiles.

The one brand that doesn't play by the rules.

I don't think that is asking too much.

I know... The brand has the potential to be the next Scion or Mini...

[Chazman]

I know... The brand has the potential to be the next Scion or Mini...

Actually, that would be fine by me. Well, it'd be tough to do a Mini, since Mini has alot of it's own heritage to feed off of. But a Scion has lots of potential I think. Of course, GM would need focus Pontiac that way - and I mean for longer than say 6 months. .

[Camino LS6]

It is funny that you say that because lets be serious the Solstice and G8 have no significance in sales and really that is what matters. The G6 is taking off and being as it has been unchanged since it went on the market what 4 years ago. That right there is as good of a reason to stick w/ Epsilon for the next G6 and not switch to Alpha, which surely everyone can admit will have lower sales than an equivalent FWD Epsilon model.

Follow that logic and this is the message GM will be sending to me: " Despite the fact that you are a loyal repeat customer, we don't want to sell any more cars to you".

Besides, how many FWD Epsilons do they need?

Two is enough AFAIC.

One need not be a Pontiac, especially with Buick in the same showroom.

[Camino LS6]

Actually, that would be fine by me. Well, it'd be tough to do a Mini, since Mini has alot of it's own heritage to feed off of. But a Scion has lots of potential I think. Of course, GM would need focus Pontiac that way - and I mean for longer than say 6 months. .

GM just needs to actually focus Pontiac rather than talking about focusing like they've been doing for decades now.

Talk about indecision!

[Robert Hall]

It is funny that you say that because lets be serious the Solstice and G8 have no significance in sales and really that is what matters. The G6 is taking off and being as it has been unchanged since it went on the market what 4 years ago. That right there is as good of a reason to stick w/ Epsilon for the next G6 and not switch to Alpha, which surely everyone can admit will have lower sales than an equivalent FWD Epsilon model.

Just showing my RWD bias, I guess...I couldn't care less for FWD..

[aldw]

Just build it I say, a good product will sell itself quite well with word of mouth.

[SAmadei]

Link to Article

Besides children under 7, where are all these tiny people who are going to fit into the back door of this car? In the sketch, it is scarely bigger than the grill, if the grill was turned 90 degrees.

Edited September 24, 2008 by SAmadei

[MyerShift]

NO!

WTF do Buick buyers care about RWD?

No GM does not need 4 Delta II's running about.

I used to drive a j-body Buick (go ahead and laugh) but if there was a greatly styled small, rear drive Buick (better than the upcoming LaCrosse or similar to) and maybe available with a manual transmission and of course a great interior, then I would totally go for it.

If GM sort of wants Buick to be like Lexus, it could be their IS.

However, Pontiac is the one that would actually deserve such a car over Buick, so let it be that way.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Just two words for Pontiac, and they are TICK TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

Edited September 26, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[ocnblu]

Your attitude stinks, Borger. It stinks like bratwurst left out in the sun for like 3 days.

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh no, I work for him willingly. No need to be hypnotized!

Most pets do.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Your attitude stinks, Borger. It stinks like bratwurst left out in the sun for like 3 days.

You're such a Drama Queen! :AH-HA_wink: Just part of your charm!

[Camino LS6]

Just two words for Pontiac, and they are TICK TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

In that case GM is doomed by their own foolishness and it will be tick-tock for the whole shebang soon enough.

[Z-06]

In that case GM is doomed by their own foolishness and it will be tick-tock for the whole shebang soon enough.

Add - Despite of the $25 B

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

In that case GM is doomed by their own foolishness and it will be tick-tock for the whole shebang soon enough.

It already is TICK TOCK for the whole shebang IMO.

Forget about saving Pontiac (If GM continues to be this inept) the corporation as we know it will be gone within 10 years.

[prinzSD]

Now why would you want to fire me?

As a loyal German GME soldier, I can honestly say, "I was only following orders!". :AH-HA_wink:

"I was just following orders" thats what the Nazis said at the Nuremberg Trials...