Is THIS Camaro right for our time?

[Chazman]

Sure it will... over 7 or 8 years. As much as I like the retro styling, how will it look in 2018... when the original first-gen F-bod only stuck around for 3 years... well, almost 4 if you count the extended '69 strike year.

I hope all these guys haunt and taunt the GM management every night in their sleep. THEY knew how to run a car company.

Honestly, I've been so overexposed to this car, it already seems old to me. I'll be going to Indy Friday with about 40-50 people from my Camaro club, so we'll see if the production version still has any visual interest for me. We'll see.

Anyways, I think this car's position will be increasingly more untenable as the years click by. Forget the V8, the V6 will be CAFE negative on the first day of production. By 2011 it'll be 5 MPG below CAFE, by 2012, 7 MPG below. All this while the Camaro is the lone Zeta at the Oshawa line, which was designed for 400,000 units.

I just hope GM can squeeze a decent 2 - 3 years out of this car, before a more appropriate 6th gen comes.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No. 'Redneck' was my word.

I put it in quotes to emphasize a point about how society views Pontiac enthusiasts. I also have major issues with the word and I should've made it more clear that I wasn't directly quoting you.

Understood.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Chazman]

I wouldn't mind if they just ripped off the 5th gen.

Me neither. I think t would actually look more agressive and sportier if you could stretch that sheetmetal over smaller, sportier bones (Alpha), rather than the large sedan substructure (like high cowl for example) like Zeta.

[The O.C.]

That may not be true any longer with the GP gone. At any rate, it doesn't share the basement with Caddy as far as sales go. And Saab, and Hummer, and Saturn.

See my point?

Caddy is the spoiled brat of the GM family.

You are seriously misguided here Camino.....Cadillac is truly GM's only hope of attracting a premium customer.....Caddy is VITAL to the future success of General Motors. Even Saab can't truly appeal to traditional premium customers like Cadillac can (or will....or is trying....)

Today, REGARDLESS of sales volumes, Cadillac is WAY more relevant to General Motors than Pontiac (or Buick, or Saab, or Hummer.)

[Camino LS6]

You are seriously misguided here Camino.....Cadillac is truly GM's only hope of attracting a premium customer.....Caddy is VITAL to the future success of General Motors. Even Saab can't truly appeal to traditional premium customers like Cadillac can (or will....or is trying....)

Today, REGARDLESS of sales volumes, Cadillac is WAY more relevant to General Motors than Pontiac (or Buick, or Saab, or Hummer.)

I disagree.

And I point to your own post.

The "(or will...or is trying...)" part especially.

Don't get me wrong, Caddy has its place. But, it gets in the way of way too many other things way too often.

It is a sacred cow.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I disagree.

And I point to your own post.

The "(or will...or is trying...)" part especially.

Don't get me wrong, Caddy has its place. But, it gets in the way of way too many other things way too often.

It is a sacred cow.

Thems fighten words Mister! :rotflmao:

[Camino LS6]

Thems fighten words Mister! :rotflmao:

As intended.

[Chazman]

I disagree.

And I point to your own post.

The "(or will...or is trying...)" part especially.

Don't get me wrong, Caddy has its place. But, it gets in the way of way too many other things way too often.

It is a sacred cow.

Cadillac is a critical bookend in the GM portfolio. The other bookend is Chevy.

[Chazman]

Oh BTW, I just got back from Indy yesterday, and got to see the production intent Camaro and listen to the Camaro Team's presentations.

I got the feeling that this team really made the effort to make this car the best that they could, given what they were required to start with - which was a large, two ton, sedan architecture. This car could have been a grand slam if GM would have given them a more appropriate architecture for it...

[Oracle of Delphi]

This car could have been a grand slam if GM would have given them a more appropriate architecture for it...

There were none available at the time, however if it was my decision, I would have waited for Alpha to be available and that would have speeded up the development of Alpha by leaps and bounds.

[Chazman]

There were none available at the time, however if it was my decision, I would have waited for Alpha to be available and that would have speeded up the development of Alpha by leaps and bounds.

I agree. Even if it would have delayed it's intro by a year or two.

[Chazman]

It's already a done deal. I wouldn't worry to much. Cadillac needs the economies scale that Chevy offers for Alpha.

Alpha Camaro still on? PM me if you want.

[hyperv6]

The Camaro is the best we will have anytime soon for this class. TI will do well for the time it has but it will not have the overly long life other Gens have had.

When work started on this car it was perfect for that time but who knew gas was going up and Wall Street was going to tank back then. Timing and luck have not been in GM's corner of late.

The fact is this is a good car and GM did do the right thing in putting a lot of pressure on the V6 car. If they has put 90% of their work into the V8 like the past this whole thing would have been a mess. The V6 will save this and let it live till a Alpha is ready.

This is the best Camaro for this time as it is the only Camaro your going to get for a few years since Alpha is a ways out yet.

[Chazman]

This is the best Camaro for this time as it is the only Camaro your going to get for a few years since Alpha is a ways out yet.

Well,it's certainly the only Camaro we're gonna get.

For the times though? I just can't see it being very successful. And I think in their heart of hearts, GM might knows that too. I just hope work starts soon on a replacement - more right for the times. Or we can kiss the Camaro brand goodbye.

[longtooth]

I admire the proportions and the stance of the upcoming Camaro over the aesthetics of the Corvette. It was love at first sight as I saw it in the flesh for the first time in the Doraville assembly plant in April 2006. Saw/heard them drive it back onto the hauler after its 24 hour stay in our place. Great car.

[Chazman]

I admire the proportions and the stance of the upcoming Camaro over the aesthetics of the Corvette. It was love at first sight as I saw it in the flesh for the first time in the Doraville assembly plant in April 2006. Saw/heard them drive it back onto the hauler after its 24 hour stay in our place. Great car.

Sure, lots of people loved the proportions and stance of the CONCEPT, includung me. The question is, how many people will dig down into their pockets and actually buy the PRODUCTION version.

[longtooth]

Sure, lots of people loved the proportions and stance of the CONCEPT, includung me. The question is, how many people will dig down into their pockets and actually buy the PRODUCTION version.

I don't know. The void left when the Z28s and Trans Ams bowed out, for just those 2 models, was around 85 thousand per year. I think they (GM) just need have faith in what they're doing, execute it properly and grow the market gradually. I've seen the sales projections ranging from 55-100,000 units per year. I think that the damn thing is eminently doable, done right.

[Chazman]

I don't know. The void left when the Z28s and Trans Ams bowed out, for just those 2 models, was around 85 thousand per year. I think they (GM) just need have faith in what they're doing, execute it properly and grow the market gradually. I've seen the sales projections ranging from 55-100,000 units per year. I think that the damn thing is eminently doable, done right.

Off the top of my head, TOTAL 2002 F-car production was around 35K.

The numbers being thrown around as Camaro's sales goal have always been in the 100,000 range.

I hope it sells. But as one of the "faithful" who has waited years for this car - all I can say is that this iteration is not for me.