Escalade Lambda Confirmed Again

[InvictaMan]

Leftlane Article

[smk4565]

Fail.

[turbo200]

leave that up to the product planners and financiers to see what kind of formula they come up with. Escalade has never been king of the road handling course. nor king of off road course. nor king of percieved luxury [on the inside--that designation goes to regal and English technical Range Rovers]. Escalade has been king of brash intimidating message and luxury. Let's hope a classic stance is retained, percieved luxury improves significantly [current gen was already a massive step ahead], some sport is injected via stance and design accoutrements inside and out, and whoa what a miracle it would be for them to actually invest in platform advancements that would filter down to actually make this Cadillac Lambda a legitimate sports luxury SUV like an X5 or GL wagon competitor. the last one is the most we can hope for, but certainly the first ones we can look out for, and if acheived, Cadillac may succeed, FWD or not. that poser cute ute of chick mobile SRX with its exeedingly large overhangs and overly conservative stance on the other hand is a loser in my book and a stain to the Cadillac name.

[smk4565]

It will no doubt compete well with the front drive offerings from Jaguar/Land Rover, BMW and Mercedes, oh wait...

[FAPTurbo]

Oh God...

Why would GM shy away from the current SUV; don't they realize that there is still a market for big SUV's? Snoop-Dogg wannabees don't give two-$h!s about gas mileage.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Captainbooyah

[79VetteZ06]

GM please make the future Lambda RWD if you want at least something out of the vehicles.

[thegriffon]

Ehh, actually GM is seeing a lot of sales going to diesel GL 320 CDIs. A Lambda-based Escalade will be at least as big as the current model, and could even feature a V8. Of course this is hardly confirmation, just another report.

[Sixty8panther]

EPIC_fail

[!!!TED!!!]

I see this as good news.

The Lambda architecture offers a clean slate if done right (please don't make an Enclave with a Caddy grille!).

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

This could be good or bad...

If it comes with AWD and a V8 and retains the attitude of the current truck, then it'll be good.

If it's "Traversed" it'll be bad.

I just don't want this to 1) Kill the only bright spot Buick has right now and 2) Kill one of only 2 bright spots Cadillac has right now.

If the EXT is moving to Zeta, then why can't the regualr Escalade do it too? Is Zeta not big enough or refined enough?

I just hope the Escalade doesn't lose all of it's 'truck-status' sales over it basically becoming a minivan.

Oh, and we already knew that Lambda could fit a V8 since at one time an Enlcave Super and/or Acadia Denali was planned. But wasn't the V8 that was going into the Lambdas supposed to be the UV8 at one time?

[Intrepidation]

Other FWD based Cadillac...

Looks like the CTS is the only one worth buying (maybe the STS).

[z28luvr01]

Sweet! Can't wait for the Epsilon II CTS and Gamma XLR!

[97regalGS]

Sweet! Can't wait for the Epsilon II CTS and Gamma XLR!

the Delta BLS will also kick some serious ass.

[Intrepidation]

the Delta BLS will also kick some serious ass.

It'll understeer with the "best" of them.

[michaelv13]

How about Cadillac badging of the Beat?

[Robert Hall]

How about Cadillac badging of the Beat?

Woo...that would give Caddy an A-class competitor...how about a V-series version? 1.4 litres of fury on the Nurburgring.

[Intrepidation]

I think we need another Cobalt rebadge wearing the Wreath and Crest badge.

[Drew Dowdell]

It'll understeer with the "best" of them.

by that you mean Audi and Lexus?

[michaelv13]

On a side note GM bought the full rights to manufacture Tata Nano under Chevy badge and shall have a car on the same architecture for Cadillac to be called Cadillac Pico - Oh wait it is a RWD - change in plans the architecture shall be modified to spawn FWD models to gain 0.00005 mpg in fuel economy.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think we need another Cobalt rebadge wearing the Wreath and Crest badge.

Considering the Cobalt was the fastest FWD around the ring until 2 months ago and beat out BMWs and Ferarris........ it could certainly be worse.

[michaelv13]

Considering the Cobalt was the fastest FWD around the ring until 2 months ago and beat out BMWs and Ferarris........ it could certainly be worse.

Ring is a track that generally favors FWD biased cars when the power, weight and other factors stay same.

[Robert Hall]

Considering the Cobalt was the fastest FWD around the ring until 2 months ago and beat out BMWs and Ferarris........ it could certainly be worse.

I never could figure that out..I've always thought FWDs by nature sucked at handling,being nose heavy, prone to understeer...that was a big WTF??? moment for me.

Edited September 10, 2008 by moltar

[97regalGS]

I never could figure that out..I've always thought FWDs by nature sucked at handling,being nose heavy, prone to understeer...that was a big WTF??? moment for me.

for an interesting read, pick up this month's MotorTrend. full article on handling. cobalt is one of the 12 cars.

Edited September 10, 2008 by 97regalGS

[regfootball]

most average citizens and car users will prefer fwd feel to rwd, rwd is tail happy. fwd front heaviness to a point is a positive, it makes the front end 'feel secure', esp in wet weather.

i am ok with front drive if the weight balance is decent and not 'nose heavy'. tires make a difference. a well set up fwd car feels as good to me and any rwd car i've driven.

[The O.C.]

leave that up to the product planners and financiers to see what kind of formula they come up with. Escalade has never been king of the road handling course. nor king of off road course. nor king of percieved luxury [on the inside--that designation goes to regal and English technical Range Rovers]. Escalade has been king of brash intimidating message and luxury. Let's hope a classic stance is retained, percieved luxury improves significantly [current gen was already a massive step ahead], some sport is injected via stance and design accoutrements inside and out, and whoa what a miracle it would be for them to actually invest in platform advancements that would filter down to actually make this Cadillac Lambda a legitimate sports luxury SUV like an X5 or GL wagon competitor. the last one is the most we can hope for, but certainly the first ones we can look out for, and if acheived, Cadillac may succeed, FWD or not. that poser cute ute of chick mobile SRX with its exeedingly large overhangs and overly conservative stance on the other hand is a loser in my book and a stain to the Cadillac name.

Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

[AAS]

Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

Maybe from the outside it looks smaller, but I can attest to the Lambdas being waaaay more roomy and "big" on the inside. They aren't as wide as the 900's, but the way they are packaged makes them feel much longer. Maybe it's seating positions and stiff cushions, but I can't stand riding in the 2nd row of a 900.

[smk4565]

RWD > FWD.

V8 in a Lambda won't work, unless it is a bad V8 making around 300 hp, which they can get from a V6. Front drive is limited as to how much power it can take, and the bigger engine will just screw up the weight balance and handling even more.

You can't compete with BMW or Mercedes (or Range Rover) with engines, transmissions and platforms shared with a Chevy. They need better than that.

[gm4life]

Nawww if this is true GM is stupid. An SRX would be fine but for the Escalade a BOF 403hp V8 has an appeal to me.

[The O.C.]

Maybe from the outside it looks smaller, but I can attest to the Lambdas being waaaay more roomy and "big" on the inside. They aren't as wide as the 900's, but the way they are packaged makes them feel much longer. Maybe it's seating positions and stiff cushions, but I can't stand riding in the 2nd row of a 900.

Really? The 2nd row of all the Escalades we have are captain's chairs that seem identical to the two front seats......and seem plenty comfortable.

I'm going to re-affirm my STRONG opinion that an Escalade Lambda would be a HUGE mistake.

Just yesterday, Enterprise parked one of their Enclave rentals on our lot ironically next to an Escalade.....and attractive as it is, in size, the Enclave simply does not have the sheer presence that the Escalade does.

For good or for bad, the Escalade's size and imposing nature is what makes it so attractive to a vast majority of our customers that buy them.......

(Now.....a Lambda SRX? I'm all over that....)

[ZL-1]

RWD > FWD.

V8 in a Lambda won't work, unless it is a bad V8 making around 300 hp, which they can get from a V6. Front drive is limited as to how much power it can take, and the bigger engine will just screw up the weight balance and handling even more.

You can't compete with BMW or Mercedes (or Range Rover) with engines, transmissions and platforms shared with a Chevy. They need better than that.

Audi has V8s on a FWD/AWD platform (S4 and S5). Why can't GM do that and have a competitive Escalade? The passenger cars will remain on RWD/AWD platform(s) anyway...

[Camino LS6]

Seems to me that I told you all that the Escalade's days were numbered back at the beginning of the year. I also suggested that a replacement on zeta would be a natural. I got shouted down back then, but someone at GM must have been thinking along the same lines. A Caddy version of the GMC Denali showtruck would make a perfect replacement for the current EXT.

As for the Lambda, I'm lukewarm on that idea.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Seems to me that I told you all that the Escalade's days were numbered back at the beginning of the year. I also suggested that a replacement on zeta would be a natural. I got shouted down back then, but someone at GM must have been thinking along the same lines. A Caddy version of the GMC Denali showtruck would make a perfect replacement for the current EXT.

As for the Lambda, I'm lukewarm on that idea.

Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

[AAS]

Really? The 2nd row of all the Escalades we have are captain's chairs that seem identical to the two front seats......and seem plenty comfortable.

...

Really. At least to me (6'3") the second row of the Enclave is much more comfortable. Maybe it's because the Enclave's second row can be slid forward/backward to give me more leg room. Though the Tahoe's seats are more bulky and less hugging (maybe the Escalade's are more cushy?).

[regfootball]

it'd be cool to see if they can tune a lambda caddy to run the nurburgring in record time.....

[z28luvr01]

Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

If that's the case, Caddy needs to grow the hell up. A RWD/AWD Zeta Escalade would be much more in keeping with the brand's supposed mantra than one built off Lambda. I guess it's OK to hang out in the back of the pack with Acura and Lincoln as long as it means not using a Holden platform

[smk4565]

Audi has V8s on a FWD/AWD platform (S4 and S5). Why can't GM do that and have a competitive Escalade? The passenger cars will remain on RWD/AWD platform(s) anyway...

And the S4/S5 is not as good as an M3. The Volvo S80 has a V8 and fwd/awd set up, and that car is not as good as any rear drive luxury car of similar price.

If the Escalade's mission becomes to target the Lincoln MKT or Acura MDX or Enclave, then the fwd/awd set up is fine.

I think it is just one more sign that GM is giving up on the original quest from 2003 to go after BMW and Mercedes, and is now wanting to go after Acura, Lincoln, etc.

[Camino LS6]

If that's the case, Caddy needs to grow the hell up. A RWD/AWD Zeta Escalade would be much more in keeping with the brand's supposed mantra than one built off Lambda. I guess it's OK to hang out in the back of the pack with Acura and Lincoln as long as it means not using a Holden platform

Exactly.

GM execs seems to need a bit of growing up too - this infighting makes them look like petulant children.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

GM just doesn't get it...

Then again, since we went socialist with CAFE, I doubt we will be "allowed" to even buy a truck or SUV in about 5 years.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

1) Seems like they played just fine for Sigma.

2) Maybe it's time to bitch slap cadillac down from it's podium a bit. I mean, if all their shenanigans were actually producing cars worth buying, it might be different. But a FWD 20 year old car with a V6 as your flagship and a FWD VAN to replace your luxury SUV that never sold on dynamics or efficiency in the first place seem to = FAIL as opposed to BMW/MB competitiveness.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Exactly.

GM execs seems to need a bit of growing up too - this infighting makes them look like petulant children.

GM needs an outsider...

Someone with BALLS.

Uncle Bob did excellent with the product, however he can't change the culture because he is AN AUTO INDUSTRY LIFER.

GM needs to bring someone in that will tell these people to STFU, just like Ford did with Mulally.

"Either work together or hit the door"

[ZL-1]

And the S4/S5 is not as good as an M3. The Volvo S80 has a V8 and fwd/awd set up, and that car is not as good as any rear drive luxury car of similar price.

If the Escalade's mission becomes to target the Lincoln MKT or Acura MDX or Enclave, then the fwd/awd set up is fine.

I think it is just one more sign that GM is giving up on the original quest from 2003 to go after BMW and Mercedes, and is now wanting to go after Acura, Lincoln, etc.

I should have written the S4/S5 platform mate, the Q5. Not doing it made you miss my point. A Lambda-based Escalade would be perfectly justifiable, as I don't see anyone driving an X5 (and not even an X6) like their driving an M3. I don't want Cadillac to have any passenger car that is on a FWD/AWD platform, but for the trucks/SUVs I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

[The O.C.]

Uncle Bob did excellent with the product, however he can't change the culture because he is AN AUTO INDUSTRY LIFER.

......he can't change the culture because his boss is Mr. Rick "I've Never Worked For Any Other Company Than GM" Wagoner......

How can Wagoner have ANY frame of reference for how a company should be run, or what constitutes a dynamic workplace environment? The only company he has EVER worked for is GM.....he's a "lifer"

.....and let me tell you, like me, those of you that have worked for GM, moved on, and worked for other companies KNOW that GM harbors one of the, if not THE, most old-school cultures in Corporate America.

[Lamar]

Everyone's talking about this from a competitive standpoint, but I thought of this...

Potentially five Lambdas... unless they get to killing soon.

[ZL-1]

Everyone's talking about this from a competitive standpoint, but I thought of this...

Potentially five Lambdas... unless they get to killing soon.

The chevy should be safe if you think from a sales standpoint. The Buick and a Cadillac would be differentiated enough in looks, power and price. The Outlook and the Acadia? It just depends on which brand GM chooses to fill the gap between Chevrolet and Buick... the killing will happen there, me thinks.

[The O.C.]

The Buick and a Cadillac would be differentiated enough in looks, power and price.

How would Cadillac be able to out-bling the already blinged-out Enclave?

Also, what would you put in the engine bay that could do justice in the face of the Escalade's 403-hp V8? As far as I've heard, the premium V8 that was slated for the Enclave (Super?) has been shelved.....leaving only the DI V6....?

[gm4life]

If you put a V6 in anything with the Escalade badge that is a MISTAKE.

[Sixty8panther]

20 years from now this will be remembered as the 1962 Dodge of Cadillacs.

And '62 Dodges will be offended, rightfully so.

Do you see Mercedes Benz dowsizing their FULL SIZE SUV onto a freekin' C-class platform?

[ZL-1]

How would Cadillac be able to out-bling the already blinged-out Enclave?

The The Art & Science Styling theme is totally different from the "curvyness" of the Enclave. It'd work. Also, the Cadillac would get a state-of-the-art interior, something to justify the difference to the Enclave's price point.

Also, what would you put in the engine bay that could do justice in the face of the Escalade's 403-hp V8? As far as I've heard, the premium V8 that was slated for the Enclave (Super?) has been shelved.....leaving only the DI V6....?

Twin-turbo DI V6? It seems forced induction will become more and more used in coming years.

[Camino LS6]

Five Lambdas is at least two too many.

Saw a Traverse at a local dealer the other day, looks just as porky as the rest on this platform.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I would say, kiss the Outlook and Acadia goodbye.