Stupid political arguments

[Camino LS6]

The things we Americans waste our time on:

Abortion

Flag burning

Gay marriage

Cloning

The drug war

"In God We Trust"

"Under God"

A tax code crafted so that no one can understand it

Most of this stuff could be solved by people simply minding ther own business.

The simple truth is that we no longer respect the freedom of others to be what, how, and who they choose to be.

[Robert Hall]

The things we Americans waste our time on:

Abortion

Flag burning

Gay marriage

Cloning

The drug war

"In God We Trust"

"Under God"

A tax code crafted so that no one can understand it

Most of this stuff could be solved by people simply minding ther own business.

The simple truth is that we no longer respect the freedom of others to be what, how, and who they choose to be.

I agree.... all of those are irrelevant (except maybe the tax code) compared to the important, quality of life issues that affect all citizens, like the economy, national security, international relations, immigration policies, trade policies, etc.

Edited September 8, 2008 by moltar

[Flybrian]

Is this all because I want to marry you after I make my atheist illegal-immigrant cocaine-addicted girlfriend abort her second baby because she cloned her first one for the tax benefits and burned an American flag in anger?

[Camino LS6]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Fly's back.

[Camino LS6]

Seriously though, I just don't understand the compulsion in this country with minding everyone else's business.

Aren't we supposed to be about freedom?

[Drew Dowdell]

Is this all because I want to marry you after I make my atheist illegal-immigrant cocaine-addicted girlfriend abort her second baby because she cloned her first one for the tax benefits and burned an American flag in anger?

That depends.... is she a lesbian now?

[loki]

Seriously though, I just don't understand the compulsion in this country with minding everyone else's business.

Aren't we supposed to be about freedom?

with freedom comes responsibility.

[Drew Dowdell]

with freedom comes responsibility.

The responsibility to what? Prevent gays from legally protecting each other? To ensure that the word "God" appears on our currency? To ensure that no one can responsibly smoke pot?

[loki]

The responsibility to what? Prevent gays from legally protecting each other? To ensure that the word "God" appears on our currency? To ensure that no one can responsibly smoke pot?

i'd say promote justice.

as long as "gay" is replace by people, no.

started in 56. no.

no.

[Enzora]

The responsibility to what? To ensure that the word "God" appears on our currency?

I, for one, love that we have "God" on our currency. It's such a delicious irony.

[CARBIZ]

I think as a people we are losing our civility. I have been haunting some political forums lately and epithets of 'racist,' 'bigot,' and 'right-winger' get bandied about quite easily. People just don't want to hear other people's opinions any more. We've already made our minds up and the rest of you are idiots.

PS: Me being called a 'right-winger.' My BF had a good laugh at that one!

[mustang84]

I agree with the above sentiments. I visit a skyscraper / urban development board occasionally where the general consensus leans strongly in one direction and it gets pretty nasty in there toward anyone on the other side of the fence. I myself don't really fit under either party; I see good and bad things in both.

The problem today is that people have such short tempers and don't have the patience to listen to an opposing argument. Sometimes I wonder if it is due to the popularity of the internet, where you can be as bullheaded as you want while remaining completely anonymous. We get a lot of our news from the web these days, and much of it is unbalanced and filled with slant. These nasty attitudes then spill out into our face-to-face interactions, and suddenly people are labeled merely because they associate with a certain party (even if they don't share all of the views).

The 2000 elections and the Iraq War really divided this nation, and I'm not sure if we'll ever get that unity back that we once had.

[Camino LS6]

My point is that we waste our energies trying to make everyone comply with one set of morals or another as if we were all the same. It just seems so idiotic to me.

If being a bible thumper is your thing, then fine. Just allow me to not be one in peace.

Simple.

In this country like no other diversity is strength, yet we do our best to stamp it out at every turn with some demand for some sort of enforced conformity.

Utterly senseless.

We will never all agree on most of these "issues" so why not leave it to individual choice and judgement?

Everybody wins that way - we can each live as we choose.

Sounds like real freedom to me.

[Intrepidation]

I missed Fly's wit.

And yes, our biggest problem, and interesting the biggest problem with religion is that we can't just mind our of f@#king business.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Oracle of Delphi]

My point is that we waste our energies trying to make everyone comply with one set of morals or another as if we were all the same. It just seems so idiotic to me.

If being a bible thumper is your thing, then fine. Just allow me to not be one in peace.

Simple.

In this country like no other diversity is strength, yet we do our best to stamp it out at every turn with some demand for some sort of enforced conformity.

Utterly senseless.

We will never all agree on most of these "issues" so why not leave it to individual choice and judgement?

Everybody wins that way - we can each live as we choose.

Sounds like real freedom to me.

You mean not everyone is an Italian/German Catholic?

Edited September 9, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[daves87rs]

Is this all because I want to marry you after I make my atheist illegal-immigrant cocaine-addicted girlfriend abort her second baby because she cloned her first one for the tax benefits and burned an American flag in anger?

[loki]

We will never all agree on most of these "issues" so why not leave it to individual choice and judgement?

Everybody wins that way - we can each live as we choose.

Sounds like real freedom to me.

with a big dash of anarchy, not saying that's bad, we have to have common law is all, and interpreting that is where all this fighting comes in. hehe

And yes, our biggest problem, and interesting the biggest problem with religion is that we can't just mind our of f@#king business.

some (people/religions) are more stealthy than others about that.

[Chevy Nick]

And yes, our biggest problem, and interesting the biggest problem with religion is that we can't just mind our of f@#king business.

Very true, religion is at the center of most of the problems listed by the original post.

[Camino LS6]

with a big dash of anarchy, not saying that's bad, we have to have common law is all, and interpreting that is where all this fighting comes in.

BS

No anarchy whatsoever.

And yes, religion is to blame here. But it doesn't have to be, all that's required is for people to be secure in their own beliefs without forcing them on others.

[CARBIZ]

I agree with the above sentiments. I visit a skyscraper / urban development board occasionally where the general consensus leans strongly in one direction and it gets pretty nasty in there toward anyone on the other side of the fence. I myself don't really fit under either party; I see good and bad things in both.

The problem today is that people have such short tempers and don't have the patience to listen to an opposing argument. Sometimes I wonder if it is due to the popularity of the internet, where you can be as bullheaded as you want while remaining completely anonymous. We get a lot of our news from the web these days, and much of it is unbalanced and filled with slant. These nasty attitudes then spill out into our face-to-face interactions, and suddenly people are labeled merely because they associate with a certain party (even if they don't share all of the views).

The 2000 elections and the Iraq War really divided this nation, and I'm not sure if we'll ever get that unity back that we once had.

Oh, shut the f$#k up!

[loki]

My point is that we waste our energies trying to make everyone comply with one set of morals or another as if we were all the same. It just seems so idiotic to me.

If being a bible thumper is your thing, then fine. Just allow me to not be one in peace.

Simple.

In this country like no other diversity is strength, yet we do our best to stamp it out at every turn with some demand for some sort of enforced conformity.

BS

No anarchy whatsoever.

And yes, religion is to blame here. But it doesn't have to be, all that's required is for people to be secure in their own beliefs without forcing them on others.

freedictionary

3. Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.

enforced conformity... laws/media

isn't true personal freedom anarchy? it may not be for "the other guy" if he can't stop me, though, but he's not me.

that's why if society had more inner chains, the outside (law) chains would not be needed.

[pow]

The problem today is that people have such short tempers and don't have the patience to listen to an opposing argument. Sometimes I wonder if it is due to the popularity of the internet, where you can be as bullheaded as you want while remaining completely anonymous. We get a lot of our news from the web these days, and much of it is unbalanced and filled with slant. These nasty attitudes then spill out into our face-to-face interactions, and suddenly people are labeled merely because they associate with a certain party (even if they don't share all of the views).

+1

People today are polarized on so many levels, and unnecessarily so, IMO. In this new internet age, you can hear only what you want to hear, and you can band together with like-minded, homogeneous individuals in a sort of bubble that neglects reality, all of which causes radicalization, scapegoating of the "opposition", and a sense of outrage fed by more and more examples of the same one-sided information, reaffirming people's beliefs as opposed to opening their minds to think critically. Eventually they conclude - everyone is wrong but me!

As much as we criticize newspapers and "old media", these institutions at least bring about a sense of professionalism and accountability, and they help democratic societies in ways that blogs and message boards alone cannot.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

And this is why some people are in favor of small government, because they feel that many of these issues are not the concern of the government.

[Satty]

Small government isn't the answer. Big government isn't the answer. Smarter government is the answer.

[PurdueGuy]

The things we Americans waste our time on:

Abortion

Flag burning

Gay marriage

Cloning

The drug war

"In God We Trust"

"Under God"

A tax code crafted so that no one can understand it

Most of this stuff could be solved by people simply minding ther own business.

The simple truth is that we no longer respect the freedom of others to be what, how, and who they choose to be.

I pretty much agree to this whole list except abortion, which I view as a human rights issue that needs a more moderate solution worked out.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I pretty much agree to this whole list except abortion, which I view as a human rights issue that needs a more moderate solution worked out.

+1, I have problems with women who use abortions as a form of birth control! If you don't want a baby get on the pill or have your sex partner wear a condom, or here's a novel idea, how about doing both.

I really have issues with 3rd trimester abortions, they should be made illegal, especially when my tax money is being used to sponsor this. IMHO!

Edited September 9, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Small government isn't the answer. Big government isn't the answer. Smarter government is the answer.

A benevolent king would work too.

[Sixty8panther]

I agree 100% with Camino's initial post, as well as most of the rest.

I'd like to add to the waste-of-time political arguments:

--- Firearm A is the exact same weapon as firearm B, but firear B is illegal because it has a black grip& stock.

There's many real examples of this! it's asinine.

--- ANY and all forms of safety-nazi-regulation (be it against hardtops, lawn darts, fireworks or helmet/seatbelt laws

--- Emissions testing, charcoal canisters & bazzilion catalytic converter galore

--- Politicians' kids, grandkids, dog groomers & pet fish...

Edited September 9, 2008 by Sixty8panther

[PurdueGuy]

+1, I have problems with women who use abortions as a form of birth control! If you don't want a baby get on the pill or have your sex partner wear a condom, or here's a novel idea, how about doing both.

I really have issues with 3rd trimester abortions, they should be made illegal, especially when my tax money is being used to sponsor this. IMHO!

Thanks for spelling out my opinion pretty much exactly. I'd maybe go as far as making 2nd trimester illegal as well. A woman should know she's pregnant within just over a month, so that gives her almost 2 months to make a decision. After that, the decision should change to between adoption or keeping the child, IMO. Maybe extend it one more month, so within the first 4 months is legal, last 5 months is not. Choice is retained, but not without responsibility.

[balthazar]

>>"As much as we criticize newspapers and "old media", these institutions at least bring about a sense of professionalism and accountability, and they help democratic societies in ways that blogs and message boards alone cannot. "<<

Problem there is, more & more 'news' sources (including internet) are getting their info from the same fewer & fewer sources; individual research & reporting is falling by the wayside due to costs & laziness. This results in the same 'facts' echoed & repeated, subconsciously reaffirming them via sheer volume.

>>"Small government isn't the answer. Big government isn't the answer. Smarter government is the answer."<<

Smaller, smarter gov is an even better answer. Has bloated beaurocracy EVER been an improvement? This is akin to a 'Hummer Government'.

[The O.C.]

BS

No anarchy whatsoever.

And yes, religion is to blame here. But it doesn't have to be, all that's required is for people to be secure in their own beliefs without forcing them on others.

So true, so true, so true.

If your religious beliefs are that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, than your "church" is free to deny sanctifying marriage or performing marriage ceremonies. HOWEVER, if on the other hand, MY religious faith and individual church supports and performs marriage ceremonies for gay people, then why can't that be allowed as well?

(Just using the gay marriage thing as one example.)

It's ALL ABOUT imposing OTHERS' beliefs on the general populace.

It's like abortion. I'm pretty much neutral. Or, I guess I'm pro-choice. Abortion is something I will never deal with in regards to myself or my significant other (because I'm gay) so it will never impact me directly. SO, why should I try to "force" an opinion about abortion onto some woman or women that will never impact my life? Why should I even take a stance in the matter?

It's also just like that bitch years ago from Michigan, I believe, that tried to get "Married With Children" taken off the air because she felt it was immoral (or some such thing.) Well, lady....if you don't like it, turn the friggin' channel.....don't let your kids watch it.....or whatever.....but don't try to impose YOUR MORALS onto a certain portion of the population that ISN'T offended by the show and maybe perhaps enjoy watching it.....

OK....I need to stop....I'm getting heated up.....

[Oracle of Delphi]

Today I was watching Deutsche Welle, (German World), the news here in Germany. They showed Palin, before she was nominated for Vice President, at her Pentecostal church saying, she believes you can PRAY AWAY THE GAY. I couldn't believe my ears

Edited September 9, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[The O.C.]

Today I was watching Deutsche Welle, (German World), the news here in Germany. They showed Palin, before she was nominated for Vice President, at her Pentecostal church saying, she believes you can PRAY AWAY THE GAY. I couldn't believe my ears

You know....that's funny.....considering that she was instrumental as Governor of Alaska in something surrounding gay partner benefits for state employees, or for companies that do business in Alaska....something like that....

But that's the tough part about being Republican (or favoring Republicans like I do THIS time around) is that their conservative nature does little to protect the rights/liberties of gay people like me....

And I WON'T vote for a democrat simply because of their liberal stance on gay issues....

Like a big catch-22

Edited September 9, 2008 by The O.C.

[Sixty8panther]

The church has its head up their @$$.

Their hypocritical views on modern life, and the fact that they

empower & shelter child rapists despite claiming that God

condemns any and all homosexuality is just the start of their

idiocy, meantime they waste their efforts on non-issues like

the evils of condoms, birth control & other useless issues.

[Robert Hall]

Today I was watching Deutsche Welle, (German World), the news here in Germany. They showed Palin, before she was nominated for Vice President, at her Pentecostal church saying, she believes you can PRAY AWAY THE GAY. I couldn't believe my ears

I saw video of her this morning where she was encouraging her church to pray of a gas pipeline that she said God wanted Alaska to have.

The Republican Party's embrace of the religious right is one of the many reasons why I could never, ever vote Republican.. too many irrational people.

People like myself (atheist, pro-technology, pro-science), rational, modernist, have no place in that party.

(And I'm not anti-religious..I know there are fanatical nut job groups within any religion. I have many rational friends that are religious--Jewish, Buddhist, Mormon, Catholic, etc).

Edited September 10, 2008 by moltar

[Satty]

Lets make gay marriage, abortion and assault gun ownership mandatory for all citizens. See, thats just as asinine as banning it for everyone.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

i see Biden managed to secure 2% of media coverage on politics over the last like week or 2.

Impressive!

Edited September 9, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[loki]

....Choice is retained, but not without responsibility.

my opinion on choice is either it was your choice, or it was rape... we hold "deadbeat" dads (more than than moms) responsible for child care/money for it... why can't this be the same practice for pregnant women either raped or consensual.

So true, so true, so true.

If your religious beliefs are that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, than your "church" is free to deny sanctifying marriage or performing marriage ceremonies. HOWEVER, if on the other hand, MY religious faith and individual church supports and performs marriage ceremonies for gay people, then why can't that be allowed as well?

(Just using the gay marriage thing as one example.)

It's ALL ABOUT imposing OTHERS' beliefs on the general populace.

It's like abortion. I'm pretty much neutral. Or, I guess I'm pro-choice. Abortion is something I will never deal with in regards to myself or my significant other (because I'm gay) so it will never impact me directly. SO, why should I try to "force" an opinion about abortion onto some woman or women that will never impact my life? Why should I even take a stance in the matter?

It's also just like that bitch years ago from Michigan, I believe, that tried to get "Married With Children" taken off the air because she felt it was immoral (or some such thing.) Well, lady....if you don't like it, turn the friggin' channel.....don't let your kids watch it.....or whatever.....but don't try to impose YOUR MORALS onto a certain portion of the population that ISN'T offended by the show and maybe perhaps enjoy watching it.....

OK....I need to stop....I'm getting heated up.....

your comment about churches. YES!!

but along with that, did you hear about NY trying to make the catholic church's "insurance" for workers, pay for/offer contraceptives...it's against the churches teaching, but NY or federal, i forgot, was trying to force them to do that... it's for person to person, but also person to institution/gov't.

you might be wrong about abortion... if you ever wanted to adopt, (if it's legal, whatever) and ...well, have you seen Juno.... situation like that.

[The O.C.]

you might be wrong about abortion... if you ever wanted to adopt, (if it's legal, whatever) and ...well, have you seen Juno.... situation like that.

Well, I WAS adapted...so you could say that I was lucky and given a life, instead of aborted.

So maybe some reasonable compromise should be made to where if it's too late, it's illegal.....but I just have a hard time imposing my moral/ethical/whatever-you-want-to-call-it on some woman's decision in this matter.

[Camino LS6]

Some quality thinking in this thread, thanks for that everyone.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Some quality thinking in this thread, thanks for that everyone.

I was thinking... if we invaded and took over Canada, would that mean that when the Camaro is built up there, that it will truly be an American car then?

[loki]

Well, I WAS adapted...so you could say that I was lucky and given a life, instead of aborted.

So maybe some reasonable compromise should be made to where if it's too late, it's illegal.....but I just have a hard time imposing my moral/ethical/whatever-you-want-to-call-it on some woman's decision in this matter.

were it get's very "silly/stupid" is where "life begins". i'd have to say that science shows a human life begins at the embryo, it has it's own separate DNA, the same the person would grow to have. i don't know the logic of "the other side".

[Oracle of Delphi]

I was thinking... if we invaded and took over Canada, would that mean that when the Camaro is built up there, that it will truly be an American car then?

I think Canadians are technically considered Americans, since their fine country which I have been lucky enough to visit many times, is in fact in North America.

[Camino LS6]

I was thinking... if we invaded and took over Canada, would that mean that when the Camaro is built up there, that it will truly be an American car then?

Bob Lutz write-in?