FUTURE PRODUCTS -- GENERAL MOTORS

[cire]

Well, aren't they phasing out the 3900? I mean, the only cars it's offered on that I can think of will be the 2009 Impala, Lucerne (and maybe G6?)

It seems they're stepping up and putting DOHC V6's in all their cars. The Aura and Malibu have only DOHC engines, and I believe for 2009, the G6 will be the same except for the 3500.

I hope you didn't think I was dissing GM or calling them jurassic. That's not what I meant and I hope it didn't come across that way. What I meant by what I said is that any new or redesigned products going forward should embrace current or future tech in order to maintain GM's modernized perception. I think they have done this so far (aren't they even installing a 6 speed auto in the Cruze which would be a first for a mainstream compact sedan). If they were to offer redesigned G-body sedans, I would expect to see them with the modern tech (a new or redesigned product with old tech would just be giving the naysayers more ammo to diss the company).

It would be nice to see the 3.6 DI V6/6 speed auto show up in the current Lucerne, but this is not a priority (especially considering GM's currently precarious financial state; they need to focus on ensuring that their upcoming products are superb).

[Paolino]

Old people like floaty and boatish.

Some young ones do too.

[Paolino]

I hope you didn't think I was dissing GM or calling them jurassic. That's not what I meant and I hope it didn't come across that way. What I meant by what I said is that any new or redesigned products going forward should embrace current or future tech in order to maintain GM's modernized perception. I think they have done this so far (aren't they even installing a 6 speed auto in the Cruze which would be a first for a mainstream compact sedan). If they were to offer redesigned G-body sedans, I would expect to see them with the modern tech (a new or redesigned product with old tech would just be giving the naysayers more ammo to diss the company).

It would be nice to see the 3.6 DI V6/6 speed auto show up in the current Lucerne, but this is not a priority (especially considering GM's currently precarious financial state; they need to focus on ensuring that their upcoming products are superb).

No, I was agreeing and adding... I would love to see a tweaked G-body, modern power train, more lux features. Unfortunately, I get this feeling we're going to have essentially the same Lucerne for years to come.

[VenSeattle]

he may not have the info to back up his statement [or maybe he does, i remember many articles quoting it]....but there's only been one Buick to change in the last year, and Buick's age group has only just begun to get younger. one can only assume no seismic shift like a tidal wave occured destroying all Toyotas bound to our shore dramatically increasing the number of younger buyers heading to thier local Buick dealers, so the other two cars already well into their lifecycle logically would not have a shift in buying patters except for decreases. right? that's only logic...

I'll let someone else spend the time to pull up the numbers.

C'mon now.....you know as well as I do that neither LaCrosse NOR Lucerne are attracting "younger" buyers.

Enclave? Yeah......

Turbo & O.C. ... I'm not ignorant. That being said, I think you're both at least partially incorrect.

The LaCrosse and the Lucerne received trim level & styling changes (interior & exterior) in 2007 & 2008 to coincide with the SUPER trim introduction, not to exclude the performance improvements (especially the LaCrosse) that accompanied these changes. Considering the low volume they both have, I am actually curious if the LaCrosse and Lucerne have begun pulling in younger (than traditional Buick) buyers since the SUPER introductions. Marketing for the Enclave, LaCrosse, & Lucerne have changed over the past two years as well. I have legitimate reasons for my curiosity....

[turbo200]

Turbo & O.C. ... I'm not ignorant. That being said, I think you're both at least partially incorrect.

The LaCrosse and the Lucerne received trim level & styling changes (interior & exterior) in 2007 & 2008 to coincide with the SUPER trim introduction, not to exclude the performance improvements (especially the LaCrosse) that accompanied these changes. Considering the low volume they both have, I am actually curious if the LaCrosse and Lucerne have begun pulling in younger (than traditional Buick) buyers since the SUPER introductions. Marketing for the Enclave, LaCrosse, & Lucerne have changed over the past two years as well. I have legitimate reasons for my curiosity....

sorry for the accusation, or how it came across. however in your follow-up i think you are being far too optomistic. marketing affects a vehicle's perception most upon its newest introduction or changes. design is a number one motivator for buying. hence, since design has not changed on either of existing Buick models, then no there hasn't been a severe change in the demographics of those buyers. additionally, as you stated, SUPERs are but a blip on the radar screen. admittedly, with buick's low volume they may have a minor affect, but whatever the ratio of yong buyers is of the 5,000 or so Supers produced, those are a paltry volume and relatively inconsequential compared to the ~48,000 [off the top of my head] Enclaves sold in the last year.

[VenSeattle]

sorry for the accusation, or how it came across. however in your follow-up i think you are being far too optomistic. marketing affects a vehicle's perception most upon its newest introduction or changes. design is a number one motivator for buying. hence, since design has not changed on either of existing Buick models, then no there hasn't been a severe change in the demographics of those buyers. additionally, as you stated, SUPERs are but a blip on the radar screen. admittedly, with buick's low volume they may have a minor affect, but whatever the ratio of yong buyers is of the 5,000 or so Supers produced, those are a paltry volume and relatively inconsequential compared to the ~48,000 [off the top of my head] Enclaves sold in the last year.

Uhm, once again, you're partially incorrect. A new model introduction and marketing (especially one targeted to a different demographic) will have an indirect impact on vehicles sharing the same showroom floor:

Younger people (you know, those who've never been in a Buick showroom or looked at any Buick up close) decide to check out the Enclave... They see the Enclave up close while also noticing the restyled LaCrosse and Lucerne. The stigma of "getting them to visit the showroom" has already been overcome. Now they're looking directly at the product. The SUPERs are the Buicks occupying the floor space next to the Enclave in most showrooms. The LaCrosse Super and Lucerne Super do not appear or come across as "old people" cars when examined separately from the CX-trims parked in the handicap spot outside Old Country Buffet.

The SUPERs, in themselves, can and probably have drawn younger (than the traditional Buick) male buyers in to check them out. Styling for both vehicles were updated. Even if they can't afford the SUPER trim, they could still walk away buying a CXL instead...

Basically, anytime you successfully draw a different or "unexposed" demographic into a showroom there's potential to have some of those to cross-shop other vehicles offered by the brand/dealership.

Oh... and sorry for my optimism without statistics... but it's to counter pessimism without statistics... you know... :AH-HA_wink:

The only facts known at the moment are that Buick's average buyer's age for 2007 was in the 50's and beneath Mercedes-Benz. LaCrosse & Lucerne received several significant updates during this time that accompanied the Enclave's introduction. The entire Buick line-up was "refreshed" or "all-new" between the 2007-2008 model years. A combination of refreshed sedans and an all-new "hot" CUV have apparently benefitted Buick.

[cire]

No, I was agreeing and adding... I would love to see a tweaked G-body, modern power train, more lux features. Unfortunately, I get this feeling we're going to have essentially the same Lucerne for years to come.

I agree. All the info pretty much indicates that the Lucerne will become a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis type of vehicle that will wither on the vine and be unceremoniously dumped. Unlike many people, I like the exterior style of the Lucerne (as long as it doesn't have the Super's awkward looking grille). If they made foglights, HID headlights, and LED taillights standard on all trim levels, the exterior would be good to go (I also prefer the all chrome grille to the blacked out version). The interior needs an Invicta-esque type makeover (or MKS-type makeover) and the engine/trans needs to be upgraded to the DI 3.6 liter V6/6 speed trans combo. These changes would make the vehicle quite competitive for the forseeable future if GM plans on letting it remain on the market without a significant redesign or replacement. Unfortunately, GM apparently doesn't have the resources to accomplish this and bring smaller, more fuel efficient products to market simultaneously. As much as I hate to admit it, upgrading this product is simply not a priority at this time.

If I had my preference, I would like to see GM develop a shorter next gen flagship (maybe around 198 inches in length) on an updated/improved version of the G-body for Buick that would utilize some of the design cues found on the recent Riviera and Invicta concept cars. The engine listed in the paragraph above would be perfect for this car. A Chevy version (with distinct exterior/interior design and the regular 3.6 liter V6/6 speed auto trans combo as the standard engine) could replace the W-body Impala. Both cars would receive shorter bodies that would be more tautly stretched over the mechanicals. This wouldn't exactly make up for the cancellation of the Zeta based products, but it would be an improvement over what is currently there (especially the W-body Impala).

Edited September 3, 2008 by cire

[MyerShift]

Some young ones do too.

Interestingly enough, I as a "young one" feel that it is completely acceptable for larger cars to ride more comfortably than smaller ones, as in going from the firmest to the "softest" but not neccesarily the floatiest. This is much the same as my like of a manual transmission; once one gets above Malibu/Insignia/Passat size, automatic only is the best/most rational way to go.

For the Lucerne, a 3.6 and 6-speed automatic would definitely help the car.

Include a redesigned interior to make it match up better with the Enclave and other upcoming Buicks, have Xenon headlamps, LED tails, ambient interior lighting, and the like and the Lucerne would remain/become class leading (especially considering how gross looking the Toyota Avalon is).