McCain's trend

[Drew Dowdell]

Please, define assault rifle. No wait i will define it for you.

Now uhm, a semi-automatic sporter AK-47 is not an assault rifle by definition. Not to mention the AK-47 isn't terribly accurate. it IS used for hunting (the round is powerful enough for some game like deer). An AR-15 rifle (looks like an M16 for you people who don't know what it is, except it only fires in semi-automatic) is only powerful enough for some smaller game or MAYBE a really good shot to the head of an animal. It is often used as a match quality rifle in shooting competitions.

Now why do both of these rifles need to be banned?

Personally, if you're truly in the sport of hunting for the sport, then you'll use a bow and arrow because that actually takes skill..... but that just me.

[Drew Dowdell]

The record Obama has is dangerously extreme, the most liberal in the senate.

What about it is extreme?

[Camino LS6]

Personally, if you're truly in the sport of hunting for the sport, then you'll use a bow and arrow because that actually takes skill..... but that just me.

Actually, hunting (successfully) takes a great deal of skill, be it with rifle or bow and arrow.

[Drew Dowdell]

The record Obama has is dangerously extreme, the most liberal in the senate. Being dangerously extreme on either side isn't good and McCain is more of a moderate and was right on the surge (weather you agree with the war or not, he was right). I am just glad he has picked a fresh new face with energy.

Yeah... Barack has been in the Senate for what... 40 years now?

I just find it funny how "car people" will go vote for a man that has hatered for performance cars and wants to DO nothing about domestic drilling.

Barack drive a Chrysler 300C, McCain drives a CTS. I'd call that a tie.

If you think Barack is really a mainstream help the common man out canidate I think your fooling yourself.

A 1/2 black man raised by a single white mother, who put himself through law school, who then turned down high paying jobs to help his local community is somehow more elitist and uppity than the white grandson of two Admirals who married a multi-millionaire heiress, and has been in the senate for 30 years..... I love it.

I let McCains record of reaching across party lines speak for itself.

95% of the time is not reaching across party lines. Senator Spector is far more accomplished at that.

I also think when a previously dem Joe Liberman speaks at the RNC you know something has gone wrong in that party and it has changed.

Yes, Joe's party affiliation has changed. Liberman disagrees with the RNC with just about everything except the war.

And yes liberals are the ones whom most likely tend to hate American's, our big bold Ameircan cars especially RWD performance ones that many of us like and yet you still vote for that side.

Barack drives a 300C.

Hmmmmmmm, it is very sad how "extreme" some of you think McCain is, for a conservative he is not nearly conservative or traditional enough. Community Organizer and Junior Senator or a proud patriot with years of service and many years as a leader... That is real hard.

Senator McCain isn't a leader.... he has no executive experience remember?

Here's the extreme parts about Candidate McCain.

1. He's in favor of tax cuts regardless of their fiscal responsibility. This will hurt the country more than help it.

2. He's in favor of Horse and Sparrow theory, this is only not extreme because it's been a mainstay of republican fiscal insanity for 80 years.

3. 100 year in Iraq?

4. Willing to invade Iran without even stopping and calling them to say "What would it take to get you to stop building those reactors?"

5. Willingly admits to knowing nothing about economics yet insists on setting economic policies.

6. Picked a VP candidate without vetting her.

7. Picked a VP candidate with no worthwhile experience to run with a 5 time skin cancer survivor.

[Drew Dowdell]

right back at you. the declaration uses "creator" so either you have to concede it's inherent in the system, or just part of human nature.

or were you being facetious?

While a nice document, the Declaration has no legal standing.

[SoCalCTS]

The record Obama has is dangerously extreme, the most liberal in the senate. Being dangerously extreme on either side isn't good and McCain is more of a moderate and was right on the surge (weather you agree with the war or not, he was right). I am just glad he has picked a fresh new face with energy. I just find it funny how "car people" will go vote for a man that has hatered for performance cars and wants to DO nothing about domestic drilling. If you think Barack is really a mainstream help the common man out canidate I think your fooling yourself. I let McCains record of reaching across party lines speak for itself. I also think when a previously dem Joe Liberman speaks at the RNC you know something has gone wrong in that party and it has changed. And yes liberals are the ones whom most likely tend to hate American's, our big bold Ameircan cars especially RWD performance ones that many of us like and yet you still vote for that side. Hmmmmmmm, it is very sad how "extreme" some of you think McCain is, for a conservative he is not nearly conservative or traditional enough. Community Organizer and Junior Senator or a proud patriot with years of service and many years as a leader... That is real hard.

Republicans hate domestic cars because American cars are made by unions. I always hear them chirping, " i would never buy an American car because I dont support the unions!" On the other hand, every card-carrying democrat that I know buys American to support the national economy and the unions. As for Obama's so-called "liberal extreme" record. I would say that he is the only moderate in all of the Senate and he stands up to the far right wing element that was in power durning the majority of the Bush admininistration. What makes him extreme? Being against abortion, not wasting his time on gay rights? Thinking the rich should actually pay taxes instead of sneaking through loopholes? If that is extreme than I hope the whole nation goes EXTREME liberal.

[Drew Dowdell]

Thinking the rich should actually pay taxes instead of sneaking through loopholes?

Assuming you're middle class

Your tax rate = 25%

Paris Hilton's tax rate = 15% (most, if not all of her income is from capital gains)

[loki]

Personally, if you're truly in the sport of hunting for the sport, then you'll use a bow and arrow because that actually takes skill..... but that just me.

why not go back farther and say if you want to really hunt for sport, try a spear or your bare hands/club.

it's takes even more of training to people hunt....what capriceman has done.

Yeah... Barack has been in the Senate for what... 40 years now?

Barack drive a Chrysler 300C, McCain drives a CTS. I'd call that a tie.

A 1/2 black man raised by a single white mother, who put himself through law school, who then turned down high paying jobs to help his local community is somehow more elitist and uppity than the white grandson of two Admirals who married a multi-millionaire heiress, and has been in the senate for 30 years..... I love it.

95% of the time is not reaching across party lines. Senator Spector is far more accomplished at that.

Yes, Joe's party affiliation has changed. Liberman disagrees with the RNC with just about everything except the war.

Barack drives a 300C.

Here's the extreme parts about Candidate McCain.

1. He's in favor of tax cuts regardless of their fiscal responsibility. This will hurt the country more than help it.

2. He's in favor of Horse and Sparrow theory, this is only not extreme because it's been a mainstay of republican fiscal insanity for 80 years.

3. 100 year in Iraq?

4. Willing to invade Iran without even stopping and calling them to say "What would it take to get you to stop building those reactors?"

5. Willingly admits to knowing nothing about economics yet insists on setting economic policies.

6. Picked a VP candidate without vetting her.

7. Picked a VP candidate with no worthwhile experience to run with a 5 time skin cancer survivor.

i bet neither actually drive, that's what the secret service is for. so that doesn't matter.

BO's father is not 100% black so he's not 1/2 black

#1 R's want to reduce taxes, but then compromise with D's to not decrease spending...often increasing it.

#2 how could #2 be right if #5 is right also? know nothings. but most of washington uses that theory or worse (wealth redistribution, with heavy taxes) that's the econ they teach at westpoint, because that's what washington uses, not because it's right.

#3, it's been sad but heard he might be listening to the Iraqi leader and considering a withdrawl in the next few years.

#4. BO said nothing was off the table concerning IRAN...how is that different...even if he meets with him...

#6 #7, i don't care, i'm sure there were better choices, but i don't care.

[Drew Dowdell]

why not go back farther and say if you want to really hunt for sport, try a spear or your bare hands/club.

it's takes even more of training to people hunt....what capriceman has done.

i bet neither actually drive, that's what the secret service is for. so that doesn't matter.

BO's father is not 100% black so he's not 1/2 black

#1 R's want to reduce taxes, but then compromise with D's to not decrease spending...often increasing it.

#2 how could #2 be right if #5 is right also? know nothings. but most of washington uses that theory or worse (wealth redistribution, with heavy taxes) that's the econ they teach at westpoint, because that's what washington uses, not because it's right.

#3, it's been sad but heard he might be listening to the Iraqi leader and considering a withdrawl in the next few years.

#4. BO said nothing was off the table concerning IRAN...how is that different...even if he meets with him...

#6 #7, i don't care, i'm sure there were better choices, but i don't care.

1. No Child Left Behind, Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit, Iraq War, Patriot Act <spent huge amounts of money>, all republican ideas. There has been virtually NO reductions in spending by the Feds since the Clinton era. ... but someone else said it better than I can.

THE 2008 REPUBLICAN PLATFORM RELEASED at the party convention in St. Paul last week is a grandiloquent document, replete with Reaganesque calls for lower taxes, smaller government, and greater self-reliance. An honest librarian would file it in the fiction section.

I'm not a naïf. I appreciate that searching for candor among politicians is about as productive as shopping for a Rolex at the corner drugstore. All politicians make promises that they never intend to keep. You generally can wrest a straighter answer from 16-year-old teenager intent on deceiving you than you can from a campaigning politician.

Even so, this GOP document is so divorced from reality that it approaches parody. The authors should have penned the document in cuneiform, because it describes an ancient GOP, not the party of today.

2. He's in favor of 80 years of failed republican tax policy and admits he knows nothing about economics..... where are you seeing disconnect there?

3. Oh good, so he can change his mind in the face of new evidence.... that will make two differences between his administration and a bush administration.

4. Because Obama will talk to Iran first. I'm not against the use of military force. I'm against it's irresponsible use.

6.7. Apathy is always the best policy. Obama shows he respects the office of the Vice President by staffing it with a highly capable person. McCain is going with the "bucket of warm piss" theory.

[gm4life]

Fact is Barack Obama wants to nothing about oil production, and news flash Obama had a 300C he traded it for a hybrid I forget what kind but I do recall reading it. Also I hardly consider Barack average after going to Havard he is really in touch with people. Don't forget McCain might have had more money growing up but that doesn't make you relate to the average Joe any worse. Honestly from Obama's "regular" begining to his new found political fame guess whom eats him up? Rich, black anti-Americans like Rev. Wright now certainly that is the kind of man I would want to support whom has a wack-job rev. whom hates American and yes that is Baracks base and somehow has moved more mainstream because of ignorant American's and with his guns and religons comment he shows how two faced he his. I want someone with the SAME message and clear stand on the issues and people whom aren't afarid to stand up to there party if they need too. Unlike Obama whom has never stood up against his.

[Drew Dowdell]

Fact is Barack Obama wants to nothing about oil production, and news flash Obama had a 300C he traded it for a hybrid I forget what kind but I do recall reading it. Also I hardly consider Barack average after going to Havard he is really in touch with people. Don't forget McCain might have had more money growing up but that doesn't make you relate to the average Joe any worse. Honestly from Obama's "regular" begining to his new found political fame guess whom eats him up? Rich, black anti-Americans like Rev. Wright now certainly that is the kind of man I would want to support whom has a wack-job rev. whom hates American and yes that is Baracks base and somehow has moved more mainstream because of ignorant American's and with his guns and religons comment he shows how two faced he his. I want someone with the SAME message and clear stand on the issues and people whom aren't afarid to stand up to there party if they need too. Unlike Obama whom has never stood up against his.

Obama has something like 95% support amongst African Americans.... I'd say that it's more than just the rich ones.

Palin has her own wack-job priest who says the Jews(Israel) deserves what they get for not converting to Christianity. He said this a month ago with her sitting in the pews. McCain sold his soul to Bob Jones University yeeaaaars ago. Palin's husband belonged to a political movement that hates the U.S. and it's leader refused to be buried in Alaska while the state was still a member of the union.

McCain not only didn't stand up to his party he has completely succumb to the ultra-rightwinger, bible thumper, rednecks that he loathed years ago. It was his only chance at getting elected, he realized that, and he sold him self out for it. In 2000, McCain might have been a maverick, today he's a sellout to the religious right.

[gm4life]

He has been very progessive and has been a maverick.

[Drew Dowdell]

He has been very progessive and has been a maverick.

95% of voting with Bush and the rest of the Republican caucus is NOT MAVERICK! His "Gang of 14" is not maverick as it was just a tool to get Bush's conservative court justices approved.

Further tax cuts for the rich <who are already only paying 15% on their capital gains> is NOT PROGRESSIVE.

Being in favor of restrictions on marriage and abortion is NOT PROGRESSIVE.

Being Progressive in terms of the economy is specifically anti-capitalist.

[DetroitNut90]

Fact is Barack Obama wants to nothing about oil production, and news flash Obama had a 300C he traded it for a hybrid I forget what kind but I do recall reading it.

He traded his 300C in for an Escape Hybrid.

Also I hardly consider Barack average after going to Havard he is really in touch with people. Don't forget McCain might have had more money growing up but that doesn't make you relate to the average Joe any worse.

Ok, he went to Harvard. Would you begrudge me if I went to the University of Pennsylvania instead of Penn State?

You kind of contradict yourself here. Harvard's a big-$$$ school. Obama worked his way through there, but he's out of touch. McCain, OTOH, was born into money, and somehow he has no trouble relating to people?

Honestly from Obama's "regular" begining to his new found political fame guess whom eats him up? Rich, black anti-Americans like Rev. Wright now certainly that is the kind of man I would want to support whom has a wack-job rev. whom hates American and yes that is Baracks base and somehow has moved more mainstream because of ignorant American's and with his guns and religons comment he shows how two faced he is.

I’d consider myself part of Barack’s base, but I'd pretty much call myself an atheist, and I definitely don't hate America. So there’s that generalization out the window. Besides, McCain (and a more than a few other Republicans of late) appeals to a base that includes Westboro Baptist, the kind that would love nothing better to institute a type of theocracy that hasn’t been seen since Oliver Cromwell’s time, perhaps worse. And I frankly find that scarier than a reverend that only sees in black.

[loki]

Being in favor of restrictions on marriage and abortion is NOT PROGRESSIVE.

Being Progressive in terms of the economy is specifically anti-capitalist.

being progressive (liberal) means restrictions.

we've restricted ourselves into the corner we have today, that's why we're hurting as a country and getting divided about this.

[Croc]

being progressive (liberal) means restrictions.

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!

Patriot Act, opposed by Progressives, restricted civil liberties. That was a Republican measure. Guantanamo and its disregard for the Geneva Convention (restricting HUMAN RIGHTS) was opposed by Progressives and embraced by Republicans.

Don't make messy generalizations that don't hold up under scrutiny. That's just as bad as saying Democratic policy is higher taxes--a statement just as demonstrably false and little-encompassing.

[Intrepidation]

I have to say there is a lot of interesting info beings hared by those who actually pay attention, but gm4life yours is both bias, full of non-facts, and blind.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

TECHNICALLY being liberal means to extend as much liberty to as many as possible. Hence Libertarians.

A true liberal, in the original meaning of the word, serves only to see everyone's liberty as high as possible, which inherently means the government can be no more than just a protector of people (i.e. they run the army, navy, police, etc). And whenever the government acts to overstep these bounds, they deserve to be overthrown as they are now infringing on the liberty of the people they serve.

the current meaning of liberals is some aberration of the original meaning, as is conservatives.

[Camino LS6]

TECHNICALLY being liberal means to extend as much liberty to as many as possible. Hence Libertarians.

A true liberal, in the original meaning of the word, serves only to see everyone's liberty as high as possible, which inherently means the government can be no more than just a protector of people (i.e. they run the army, navy, police, etc). And whenever the government acts to overstep these bounds, they deserve to be overthrown as they are now infringing on the liberty of the people they serve.

the current meaning of liberals is some aberration of the original meaning, as is conservatives.

Absolute truth.

[Satty]

There is a problem I see with small government, I'll use education as an example, because its the easiest. Lets say we get rid of the D.O.E. and remove national standards and funding for schools. That leaves it up to the states, and no two states are created equal. States with large populations and a lot of industry create more revenue, if those states have high taxes (Massachusetts) they can bring in a lot of money and put it into schools. Now lets look at more sparsely populated, poorer states (Arkansas, Mississippi) that dont get that kind of revenue. They're not going to be able to give their kids the same quality of education because the most qualified teachers are going to go to the areas that pay better and provide better working conditions (computers in the classrooms, up to date books, etc...). That leaves the kids in poor areas at a disadvantage, unable to compete with students from better funded schools in college and in the job market, which just perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Is the D.O.E. perfect? Not even close, they need better policies and better oversight of dispersed funding, and the states need to be smarter about how they use the money, but a national standard for education is the only way for no child to be left behind.

Similar arguments can be made for the Departments of Transportation, Energy, H.U.D. and Ag.

[Sixty8panther]

There is no reason for civilians to have military weapons like that. Shotguns and regular rifles should be enough for the hunter types...

Bull$hit.

The criminals have their pick at ANY weapons they can dig up on the black market,

including firearms converted(back) to FULLY auto, to BAN ANY firearm for use by

law-abiding citizens, (anyone without a criminlarecord) is by extenson not only

100% unconstitutional but also indirectly supporting violent crime!

The only gun law I agree with is that anyone with a criminal record should never

have legal access to one, altough they're always goign to be in the streets illegaly

in high numbers in the real world, bleedaig heart-liberal propaganda & Bono aside!

You think I'm passionate about hardtops, V8s and RWD?

The 2nd amendment trumps all those put togehter.

It's not ABOUT hunting or ANY "sport" or hobby involving

firearms, it's about one thing:

Our government should be AFRAID of its' people, NOT the other way around!

Edited September 8, 2008 by Sixty8panther

[Camino LS6]

Our government should be AFRAID of its' people, NOT the other way around!

This be true.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Our government should be AFRAID of its' people, NOT the other way around!

Doesn't hurt if criminals are afraid of the common populace too.

Which reminds me of that one movie where two guys jack some old ladys car and she pulls out a gun and nearly gets them. the car-jacker says "thats why i always vote for gun control".

heh

[Oracle of Delphi]

The operative word being should.

[Camino LS6]

The operative word being should.

Sad but true.

[Sixty8panther]

Republicans hate domestic cars because American cars are made by unions. I always hear them chirping, " i would never buy an American car because I dont support the unions!" On the other hand, every card-carrying democrat that I know buys American to support the national economy and the unions.

That is an erroneous & exreeme generalization.

(not that I have naver been guilty of it here)

I work in the union for UPS & it makes me sick to

my stomach to admit this but the UPS parkig lot

is fu&%ing LITTERED with Toyotas just as much,

if not more than ANY parking lot in the same

town! I FACT I am known as the guy how hates

Japanese cars, esp. Toyotas by many of my

union-membr co-workers

(everyone except for the Supervisors, & mangment is unio at UPS)

Just off the top of my head, of the dozen of or so

friends I've made at UPS, here's the ones who's

rides Iknow:

- Tommy: 2003? Civic coupe

- John: 2002? Tundra (only non-union person, my sup.)

- Karen: 2004 Focus 3dr

- Dave; 2008 Civic coupe

- Super-hot chick, just hired: 200? Matrix

- Nicole: 2007/8 Honda CRV

- Chris: 2009 Yaris (just bought it 3 weeks ago)

- Benn: 2005 Mazda MP3

- Tom: (late 1990*s) Tacomaex-cab

- Matt: 2004-8 Accord

- Kyle: 1996 SL Satrun sedan

Now there are two more people of who's rides I know of...

neither one of them work with me or even on my sideof the building

but I got to be friend's with both of them ONY becuse of my months

of daily driving the B-59 last fall and then this year the Banana boat,

one has (his daily and ONLY driver year round) a 1972 Cadillac sedan

deVille 4dr hardtop and the othr guy, owns a 86? Buick Cetury winter

beater and a mid-1990s GMC 2500 4x4 pickup...

BUT also in his & his dad's garage are a bunch of projects including

a 1938 and 1937 Buick, several rare British cars, including a runing &

driving Alard and (rotting in the weeds, amongst 3-dozen parts cars)

a super rare 1952 Imperial.

So, for obious reasons the GMC/Cetury & Cadillacdonot count.

NOW what say you about union workers? Sad isn't it?

I hate hypocracy.

[Oracle of Delphi]

That is an erroneous & exreeme generalization.

(not that I have naver been guilty of it here)

I work in the union for UPS & it makes me sick to

my stomach to admit this but the UPS parkig lot

is fu&%ing LITTERED with Toyotas just as much,

if not more than ANY parking lot in the same

town! I FACT I am known as the guy how hates

Japanese cars, esp. Toyotas by many of my

union-membr co-workers

(everyone except for the Supervisors, & mangment is unio at UPS)

Just off the top of my head, of the dozen of or so

friends I've made at UPS, here's the ones who's

rides Iknow:

- Tommy: 2003? Civic coupe

- John: 2002? Tundra (only non-union person, my sup.)

- Karen: 2004 Focus 3dr

- Dave; 2008 Civic coupe

- Super-hot chick, just hired: 200? Matrix

- Nicole: 2007/8 Honda CRV

- Chris: 2009 Yaris (just bought it 3 weeks ago)

- Benn: 2005 Mazda MP3

- Tom: (late 1990*s) Tacomaex-cab

- Matt: 2004-8 Accord

- Kyle: 1996 SL Satrun sedan

Now there are two more people of who's rides I know of...

neither one of them work with me or even on my sideof the building

but I got to be friend's with both of them ONY becuse of my months

of daily driving the B-59 last fall and then this year the Banana boat,

one has (his daily and ONLY driver year round) a 1972 Cadillac sedan

deVille 4dr hardtop and the othr guy, owns a 86? Buick Cetury winter

beater and a mid-1990s GMC 2500 4x4 pickup...

BUT also in his & his dad's garage are a bunch of projects including

a 1938 and 1937 Buick, several rare British cars, including a runing &

driving Alard and (rotting in the weeds, amongst 3-dozen parts cars)

a super rare 1952 Imperial.

So, for obious reasons the GMC/Cetury & Cadillacdonot count.

NOW what say you about union workers? Sad isn't it?

I hate hypocracy.

So what are you doing about it? How are you changing your Union Brother's and Sister's mindset? After all if you do nothing to help change that perception, you're just as guilty as them.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Sixty8panther]

1. I'm very much in favor of an increase in capital punishment especially in cases where DNA evidence removes any reasonable doubt. As an added bonus, I believe the executions should take place on Pay Per View. Capital punishment loses it's effectiveness as a deterrent if you only hear about it when the guy on the evening news reads it to you.

2. I don't believe that at all..... I just wish the redneck and bible thumpers didn't have so much control over the Republican party. I am a fiscally prudent, socially

liberaterian, and internationally isolationist. That's what the Republican party USED to stand for.

Seems you and I DO agree on quite a bit!

4. I'm in favor of personal ownership of SOME firearms. I do not believe, however, that one needs to own assault rifles or fully automatic weapons. Handguns for self defense and guns for hunting are fine. If you're going to maintain that we should be able to keep weapons in case we need to overthrow our government, then we need to start building centrifuges in our basement for refining uranium.

So what, if we all march on washington if and when an evil oppressive government

takes over they're going to nuke the whole population? Not likely.

[Robert Hall]

Not that different in the non-union corporate cubicle world. On my development team at my last gig, I was the only one that drove an American car. The manager/director had a Prius and a Matrix, two developers had Priuses, 1 developer had a G35, another an Accord, one had a new Camry w/ custom wheels, and one had a Civic. Add in the architecture team, and there was a BMW 3-series, a previous gen Camry and a Corolla.

Out of a company of 50, I only knew 5 other people besides myself that drove domestic--the director of professional services had a Grand Cherokee similar to mine, the CFO has a Corvette convertible (C5) and a 1st gen CTS, the founder/CTO has a Tahoe, and the CEO has a 1st gen Vue. Oddly, one of the business analysts has a '96 Caprice ex-cop car and a new Infiniti M45. Another guy, the director of user experience (chief UI designer) had a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon when I started, but he traded it on an FJ Cruiser.

Edited September 9, 2008 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

So what are you doing about it? How are you changing your Union Brother's and Sister's mindset? After all if you do nothing to help change that perception, you're just as guilty as them.

You know how a few on C&G tell me that I'm consantly

about hardtops, RWD, V8s etc...

I have made my opinion clear and preach the err of their ways OFTE enough.

Honestly, do I seem like the quiet & restrained type

[Robert Hall]

You know how a few on C&G tell me that I'm consantly

about hardtops, RWD, V8s etc...

I have made my opinion clear and preach the err of their ways OFTE enough.

Honestly, do I seem like the quiet & restrained type

Really? I though you were the wild-eyed, crazed, foaming at the mouth, madman running and screaming randomly down the street...

[Sixty8panther]

Palin has a degree in communications from Univ. of Idaho, has been in a major office for 1 . 5 years, and has a kid LESS than a year old that needs a Mom.

I wonder what is more of a time drain/distraction?

1. Bill Clinton's B.J. whores & cigar antics

2. G. W. Bush's Playstation-3 time?

3. Palin's 1 y.o. mentally challenged son

[Drew Dowdell]

Our government should be AFRAID of its' people, NOT the other way around!

[loki]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!

Patriot Act, opposed by Progressives, restricted civil liberties. That was a Republican measure. Guantanamo and its disregard for the Geneva Convention (restricting HUMAN RIGHTS) was opposed by Progressives and embraced by Republicans.

Don't make messy generalizations that don't hold up under scrutiny. That's just as bad as saying Democratic policy is higher taxes--a statement just as demonstrably false and little-encompassing.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=liberal

b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

reform as in new legislation that doesn't take away old legislation. and you used republican, not conservative in your sentence.

new ideas for progress, open to ideas both good, and horrible., almost always horrible when examples in history aren't shown how bad/good they turned out.

the current meaning of liberals is some aberration of the original meaning, as is conservatives.

and

b. Obsolete Morally unrestrained; licentious

- Tommy: 2003? Civic coupe

- John: 2002? Tundra (only non-union person, my sup.)

- Karen: 2004 Focus 3dr

- Dave; 2008 Civic coupe

- Super-hot chick, just hired: 200? Matrix

- Nicole: 2007/8 Honda CRV

- Chris: 2009 Yaris (just bought it 3 weeks ago)

- Benn: 2005 Mazda MP3

- Tom: (late 1990*s) Tacomaex-cab

- Matt: 2004-8 Accord

- Kyle: 1996 SL Satrun sedan

and the non-union guy (prolly) has an older vehicle than all but 2, if you don't count.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=socialism

1. a theory or system of social organization advocating placing the ownership and control of capital, land, and means of production in the community as a whole.

3. Marxist theory. the first stage in the transition from capitalism to communism, marked by imperfect realizations of collectivist principles.

wikipedia.

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic interventionism, sometimes opposing each other — especially the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; libertarian socialists advocate co-operative worker ownership of the means of production; most Marxists (some inspired by the Soviet economic model), advocate centrally-planned economies. By contrast, Social-Anarchists, Luxemburgists, the U.S. New Left and various forms of libertarian socialism favor decentralized ownership via co-operative workers' councils and participatory planning.

[balthazar]

Don't forget:

4. obscuring & denying indoctrinated race-centric beliefs

[Croc]

reform as in new legislation that doesn't take away old legislation. and you used republican, not conservative in your sentence.

new ideas for progress, open to ideas both good, and horrible., almost always horrible when examples in history aren't shown how bad/good they turned out.

Reform means change or alteration. It does not necessarily mean "band-aid fix" or "tweaking" of current policy. It can be a total reversal, or it can be an amendment. Here's an example: the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission did not restrict the civil rights or freedoms of Americans, but put an end to discrimination in the workplace. It increased civil liberties. Unless you really believe in "the right to discriminate"...but that would be a really tough argument to make credibly.

[loki]

Reform means change or alteration. It does not necessarily mean "band-aid fix" or "tweaking" of current policy. It can be a total reversal, or it can be an amendment. Here's an example: the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission did not restrict the civil rights or freedoms of Americans, but put an end to discrimination in the workplace. It increased civil liberties. Unless you really believe in "the right to discriminate"...but that would be a really tough argument to make credibly.

did it increase my civil rights as a white male? did it elevate women/black/hispanic/ civil rights above mine? you can't stop discrimination at the personal level. when equal applicants for a job a black a woman a white male... if a black boss hires the black, can the woman and man file discrimination? woman boss hires the woman...same thing...? when this causes people to be hired that can't do the job because the company was mandated to have "diversity"... that should be unlawful.

[balthazar]

Excellent point, loki; here "Equal" is a misnomer.

[loki]

Excellent point, loki; here "Equal" is a misnomer.

yes,

a certain member of my family works at a place that might have been in the news about "discrimination" related things. it came up while people were talking that this company had groups for blacks and women, but none for white males... i don't know if anything has happened on that front.

is this the "right to discriminate" you were talking about croc?

[gm4life]

I have to say there is a lot of interesting info beings hared by those who actually pay attention, but gm4life yours is both bias, full of non-facts, and blind.

Someone has got to make sense around hear.

List of reasons why I support McCain.

1. Supports Domestic Drilling.

2. Gives tax cuts across the board.

3. Is pro-life.

4. Wants a secure country and would rather be on the offensive rather than the defensive.

5. Was right on surge so many people were wrong about.

6. Has a record and yes most of the things he has agreed with G.W.B. on have been budget related and he has opposing view points to G.W.B. on many other things, like energy and global warming.

7. Puts the people and the country's interest in front of the media or the typical Washington status-quo. (That is why he had such a hard time firing up his base, but when you look at the alternative it is not a wonder to me why he has.)

Those are my top seven reasons.

You people amuse me the people that want for most part a RWD GM building performance cars with turbos and 8 cylinders and want to believe it is 1965 all over again and yet you would vote for a man that drives a hybrid, wants nothing to do with domestic product to keep gas prices resonable so we can afford to drive our RWD performance cars not just dream about them. What a croc of &#036;h&#33;. Many of you are good people but this &#036;h&#33; that Obama is the "second coming of Christ is crazy" he is a politcian like all of them our in it for each other some more and some less. Anyone see the Bill O'Reily interview and how he was struggling to come up with answers? Oh dear the screen in front of me is no longer telling me what to say. He is a great speech giver nothing more, and sadly lacks alot of the "guts" it takes to be the leader of our country. If the dems would have ran Hillary I would have had alot more to think about but they made it easy for me. By the way Dodgefan I have no bias I am just looking out for myself and my pocket-book and everyother American rich or poor! Barack also has flip-flopped on taxation and now might not impose such high taxes on the wealthy and that would be a good idea sense they are the ones whom take risks and invest in this county getting us out of hard times and CREATE NEW jobs.

By the way my sig is now getting politically just like my yard sign, that went up a week ago.

[Croc]

did it increase my civil rights as a white male? did it elevate women/black/hispanic/ civil rights above mine? you can't stop discrimination at the personal level. when equal applicants for a job a black a woman a white male... if a black boss hires the black, can the woman and man file discrimination? woman boss hires the woman...same thing...? when this causes people to be hired that can't do the job because the company was mandated to have "diversity"... that should be unlawful.

You need to read up on the EEOC. For someone to take action they have to prove that there was discrimination present, not even just an unbalanced workplace ratio. This has NOTHING to do with affirmative action/quotas/"diversity initiatives" whatsoever.

And yes it increased your civil rights as a white male. Say you become injured in some way, but that you are perfectly qualified to do Job X in every way, except that you need a special ergonomic computer keyboard. Prior to the EEOC, you would not have been hired due to the cost incurred to the employer--why spend $100 on a different keyboard when there are 65 other applicants who don't need it? But because of the "reasonable accomodation" clause, you cannot be refused a job solely on those grounds. Employers of I believe 15 or more employees are required to make a "reasonable accomodation" to potential employees.

This isn't just a "gender thing" or a "race thing." The EEOC covers race, gender, religion, color, and disability.

The other key is that you ARE qualified for the job. Again, totally different from a "diversity initiative."

As a side note, that's another reason I like Obama: he's against affirmative action. Thank f@#king Ogg.

[gm4life]

Croc I have to agree with Loki on that one.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Mmmm why are you using an aussie car for your US political theme?

you need like an AMC Gremlin or something

[Croc]

Croc I have to agree with Loki on that one.

OK...?

Is that it?

[Sixty8panther]

gm4llife:

Another great point.... Dems. seem to always want to PUNISH the wealthy by HIGHER taxes,

so in other words, this is America,home of the free, land of opportunity, but if you actually

manage to ACCOMPLISH the American dream, you'll be PUNISHED FOR IT.

The wealthy should pay EXACTLY the same percentage tax wise as the rest of us.... not a

penny LESS (as some Republicans think) and not a penny MORE. EXACTLY the same.

Anything other is stupid and unfair.

It's like a gas-guzzler tax on low-mpg vehicles;

The low MPGs of a Viper or Hummer H1 ARE the taxes, stupid.

Fu%$ing what kind of logic is that?: your Hummer is going to cost you three times

as much fuel wise as a Corolla-S.... therefore you should be TAXED for it.

You're paying THREE times the taxes at the pump, what kind of double dipping is that!?

Many (not all) Democrats are lazy mot#erfuc%ers that have no motivation in life and will NOT

& can NOT ever even fathom working hard enough and making enough sacrifices to get ahead

in life and someday become wealthy... soif they're going to smootch off the rest of us working

class folk by staying on welfare & being worthless losers all their lives OF COURSE they want

HIGHER taxes for the rich, so that their handoutis ensured.

It's disgusting!

I'm broke like a joke and came from an immigrant family, my parents struggled to stay in the

very lower echelon of the low-middle class by working 2 jobs each all my life, but someday I

would hope that either I or one of my two daughters (Amelia should be here any day now)

will reach the American dream by owning my/their ow business or just making god money by

working for someone else's well established business... meantime I'm not going to work hard

to make sure when that day comes (I or they) am taxed extra HARD to keep the lazy, and

ignorant (who can't help themselves) well fed and therefore perpetuating the (broken) system!

[Satty]

How is wanting the wealthy to pay the same or similar taxes punishing them? Why should somone pay a smaller percentage of their income to the government because they make a lot of money? Its fundamentally wrong. Using the Warren buffet example again (for like the 17th time) why is a billionaire's income taxed at 17% while his secretary is taxed at 30%? McCain's tax plan continues this, Obama's levels the taxes somewhat.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

How is wanting the wealthy to pay the same or similar taxes punishing them? Why should somone pay a smaller percentage of their income to the government because they make a lot of money? Its fundamentally wrong. Using the Warren buffet example again (for like the 17th time) why is a billionaire's income taxed at 17% while his secretary is taxed at 30%? McCain's tax plan continues this, Obama's levels the taxes somewhat.

Not quite, the billionaire pays a lot larger income tax %. HOWEVER, if most of his income comes from capital gains, its only 15%. But on the same token, most middle/lower/working class people can get capital gains at only 5%.

The difference is most people dont actually invest in qualified stocks.

[Drew Dowdell]

Someone has got to make sense around hear.

List of reasons why I support McCain.

1. Supports Domestic Drilling. So does Obama.

A “Use it or Lose It” Approach to Existing Oil and Gas Leases.

Obama will require oil companies to develop the 68 million acres of land (over 40 million of which are offshore) which they have already leased and are not drilling on.

Promote the Responsible Domestic Production of Oil and Natural Gas.

An Obama administration will establish a process for early identification of any infrastructure obstacles/shortages or possible federal permitting process delays to drilling in the Bakken Shale formation, the Barnett shale formation, and the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska.

2. Gives tax cuts across the board. Incorrect, McCain's tax cuts favor the wealthy. A single person with no dependents making $50,000 a year would see his tax decreased by $39 under John McCain. Under Barack Obama, his tax would decrease $468.76.

4. Wants a secure country and would rather be on the offensive rather than the defensive. Right, because Obama will surrender to them musliums and rent out rooms in the whitehouse to Bin Laden.... :rolleyes: I want a President who isn't "shoot first, ask questions.... well... maybe".

5. Was right on surge so many people were wrong about. But he was wrong about the war in the first place. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, How was the play?

6. Has a record and yes most of the things he has agreed with G.W.B. on have been budget related and he has opposing view points to G.W.B. on many other things, like energy and global warming. How is "Drill baby, drill!" any different than G.W.B.?

7. Puts the people and the country's interest in front of the media or the typical Washington status-quo. (That is why he had such a hard time firing up his base, but when you look at the alternative it is not a wonder to me why he has.) You mean like all the lobbyists he had on his campaign staff or that Palin's speech was written by Bush's speech writers or that Karl Rove is/was a regular adviser to his campaign or that he's completely sold himself out to the religious rightwing nutjobs by including Palin on the ticket. My favorite is the Keating five scandal "The U.S. Savings and Loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s was the failure of 747 savings and loan associations (S&Ls) in the United States. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around $160.1 billion, about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.[1]." Totally putting the country and people first.

By the way Dodgefan I have no bias I am just looking out for myself and my pocket-book and everyother American rich or poor! Barack also has flip-flopped on taxation and now might not impose such high taxes on the wealthy and that would be a good idea sense they are the ones whom take risks and invest in this county getting us out of hard times and CREATE NEW jobs.

Horse and Sparrow theory is a farce while capital gains are at 15%. Vote for John McCain as long as you don't mind eating horse &#036;h&#33;.

In our current situation, cutting taxes on the rich will NOT HELP THE ECONOMY! It's not the wealthy's taxes that are causing this mess, but it's the wealthy who have caused this mess by being so greedy.

[Drew Dowdell]

gm4llife:

Another great point.... Dems. seem to always want to PUNISH the wealthy by HIGHER taxes,

so in other words, this is America,home of the free, land of opportunity, but if you actually

manage to ACCOMPLISH the American dream, you'll be PUNISHED FOR IT.

The wealthy should pay EXACTLY the same percentage tax wise as the rest of us.... not a

penny LESS (as some Republicans think) and not a penny MORE. EXACTLY the same.

Anything other is stupid and unfair.

or.... you don't know enough about economics to understand why we have progressive taxation in the first place.

Flat taxes are inherently regressive. Even though the percentage of tax is the same, the burden on the lower classes is much greater.

[Intrepidation]

gm4llife:

Another great point.... Dems. seem to always want to PUNISH the wealthy by HIGHER taxes,

so in other words, this is America,home of the free, land of opportunity, but if you actually

manage to ACCOMPLISH the American dream, you'll be PUNISHED FOR IT.

The wealthy should pay EXACTLY the same percentage tax wise as the rest of us.... not a

penny LESS (as some Republicans think) and not a penny MORE. EXACTLY the same.

Anything other is stupid and unfair.

It's like a gas-guzzler tax on low-mpg vehicles;

The low MPGs of a Viper or Hummer H1 ARE the taxes, stupid.

Fu%$ing what kind of logic is that?: your Hummer is going to cost you three times

as much fuel wise as a Corolla-S.... therefore you should be TAXED for it.

You're paying THREE times the taxes at the pump, what kind of double dipping is that!?

Many (not all) Democrats are lazy mot#erfuc%ers that have no motivation in life and will NOT

& can NOT ever even fathom working hard enough and making enough sacrifices to get ahead

in life and someday become wealthy... soif they're going to smootch off the rest of us working

class folk by staying on welfare & being worthless losers all their lives OF COURSE they want

HIGHER taxes for the rich, so that their handoutis ensured.

It's disgusting!

I'm broke like a joke and came from an immigrant family, my parents struggled to stay in the

very lower echelon of the low-middle class by working 2 jobs each all my life, but someday I

would hope that either I or one of my two daughters (Amelia should be here any day now)

will reach the American dream by owning my/their ow business or just making god money by

working for someone else's well established business... meantime I'm not going to work hard

to make sure when that day comes (I or they) am taxed extra HARD to keep the lazy, and

ignorant (who can't help themselves) well fed and therefore perpetuating the (broken) system!

I think it's both funny and ironic that you are complaining that the wealthy would have to pay more than what lower income (90% of America) makes, especially since you and I do not fall into the "wealthy" bracket.

Just curious, have you actually compared the tax plans? Obama's is actually much more fair to everyone than the McCain's, which like Bushes, makes the rich benefit most. As well, it isn't as though Obama is charging them for half of their income.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Dodgefan