McCain's trend

[Robert Hall]

It's just like the differance between a '72 &

'73 Riviera; subtle, but God IS in the details.

Speaking of Rivis, the '71-72 boattail is probably my favorite '70s GM design, period. The idea of a B-body coupe w/ a mid '60s Corvette like rear window was brilliant...I love the sculpturing on those cars, esp. the '71s w/o the '72s extraneous side trim or a vinyl top. If I do own a '70s GM someday, it will have to be a '71 Riv.

Edited September 5, 2008 by moltar

[gm4life]

1. Obama ranks as the magazine's most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006. As for conservative rating, McCain missed too many votes to get a rating.

2. Palin TAXED big oil.

3. Palin tried to get Harry Potter books banned from the library and threatened to fire the librarian who opposed her.

4. Palin abused her power to try and get a state trooper, who used to be her brother in law, fired. It is also now coming out that she may have illegally accessed his personnel records.

5. McCain voted with President Bush 90% of the time.

Summary, if looking like the current administration is the criterion for being a "traditional conservative", then Palin and McCain fit that bill.

6. Jesus was a community organizer. Pilot was a Governer.

7. How do you come to the conclusion that Obama wants to lose the war? He suggested a timetable for withdrawal over a year ago and got shouted down for it. Guess what? Bush and Maliki have been hammering out a time table for withdrawal. Obama suggested talking to our enemies and was shouted down as an "appeaser". Guess what? Bush has been sending emissaries to Iran to work out an agreement.

Just wanted to correct some of your "facts"

I don't want a traditional conservative I want a man and woman who shares my social values. I don't want a politican whom seeks to impress the media or was a community organizer. I want a politican with a record not of a conservative but of a reformer, not a man that hypes up change and votes present in the Senate. I want a man with a progessive enegry policy and wants to give EVERYONE some of there hard earned money back. I want a man that went into politics to serve his country not to become a rock-star. I want a woman whom beliefs taking on the big oil, and the status quo in Washington. I want a woman who seeks not to impress the media but to do what is best for our country. I want a pro-life man whom believes the value of life begins a conception. I want a woman who not only has the legislative expertise to lead but the guts to actually do it. I want a team of people whom aren't scared or ashamed to put ones country before self. That is why I have been left with only one option and that is McCain-Palin. I know Baracks reccord and lack of legislative knowledge, I know his liberal and scray extermist reccord. I understand he feels at home in Hollywood, I want a man who beliefs in this country and isn't out to seak the media's praise putting country first. So why would I vote for a person I don't agree with, trust or belief in? Why won't I vote for a man with that takes stabs at people in rural areas across this great country? Why won't I vote for a man the praises the rich and celebs? Because he is not the right man for the job. John McCain and Sarah Palin are the only viable option in the race. If you can find a politican that I agree with more find them and bring them too me. Thats all folks...

Good Bless America.

And I don't want a first lady whom is proud of her country for the first time.

[Oracle of Delphi]

1. Obama ranks as the magazine's most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006. As for conservative rating, McCain missed too many votes to get a rating.

2. Palin TAXED big oil.

3. Palin tried to get Harry Potter books banned from the library and threatened to fire the librarian who opposed her.

4. Palin abused her power to try and get a state trooper, who used to be her brother in law, fired. It is also now coming out that she may have illegally accessed his personnel records.

5. McCain voted with President Bush 90% of the time.

Summary, if looking like the current administration is the criterion for being a "traditional conservative", then Palin and McCain fit that bill.

6. Jesus was a community organizer. Pilot was a Governer.

7. How do you come to the conclusion that Obama wants to lose the war? He suggested a timetable for withdrawal over a year ago and got shouted down for it. Guess what? Bush and Maliki have been hammering out a time table for withdrawal. Obama suggested talking to our enemies and was shouted down as an "appeaser". Guess what? Bush has been sending emissaries to Iran to work out an agreement.

Just wanted to correct some of your "facts"

On this we agree 100%. Scary huh?

[SoCalCTS]

And what, pray tell, do you want the president to do for the economy? We can reduce our debt, and thats about it. we are NOT in a recession as many people would like you to think (although its not good, but its not a recession). As with any other president that comes after a weak economy president, the next president will be attributed with a strong economy regardless of their actions (as its the natural way the economy rolls).

However, by mere irony, the weak dollar has actually PROMOTED manufacturing IN the USA (also thanks to high fuel costs). Its ironic, but its true. Not saying its a good or bad thing, just kinda odd.

Yep, any talk about the economy is mere lip service. Americans affected by our economy obviously don't want to hear this, but its the truth. The Bush administration has bandaged and prodded along what was left of this economic cycle. Coupled with our large deficit, this has led to... well now. We could have just left the economy gone into a recession and then fallen back into a strong cycle, but this is what happens when you try and artificially manipulate the economy.

You are categorically wrong about USA manufacturing being helped by the weak dollar. The latest figures show that American manufacturing has actually contracted and it was in part due to high fuel costs. What Bush could have done to help the economy is to NOT have run up the debt in the first place. When he took office there was a surplus, a stronger dollar and the debt was on its way to being zero. McCain and the Republicans never saw a tax dollar that they didn't want to spend. In fact, they spent far more than they took in and foolishly cut taxes at the same time. The "spend and spend" Republicans have bankrupted the nation. This has nothing to do with an economic cycle.

Seriously, we need to hear how they intend to fix the economy before they start yammering on about abortion, gay marriage, 9-11 and all the other b-s that is intended to divert attention from the real issues affecting our nation.

[ocnblu]

Well it seems as though Oldsmoboi has been reading the gossip rags, as evidenced by his ridiculous 9:30 pm post, and look at Borger, happily agreeing with the drivel spewed, even reposting the garbage. Oh my, this is just too, too much.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't want a traditional conservative

Vote for McCain/Palin, and that's what you're getting. Voting with Bush 90% of the time does not a reformer make.

I want a man and woman who shares my social values.

Are banning books and abusing power your social values?

I don't want a politican whom seeks to impress the media or was a community organizer.

Like McCain being on Leno about 7 times? What is suddenly wrong with community service?

I want a politican with a record not of a conservative but of a reformer, not a man that hypes up change and votes present in the Senate.

Again, McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. Not the credentials of a reformer.

Obama has sponsored "131 bills since Jan 4, 2005.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, which were formally sponsored by Senators Coburn and Lugar, respectively. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

I want a man with a progessive enegry policy and wants to give EVERYONE some of there hard earned money back.

Progressive energy policy does not include cruise missiles or troop numbers. You'll get more money back under Barack's tax plan than McCains...... unless you are in the top 1% income earners.

I want a man that went into politics to serve his country not to become a rock-star. I want a woman whom beliefs taking on the big oil, and the status quo in Washington. I want a woman who seeks not to impress the media but to do what is best for our country.

If you think McCain is doing this out of the kindness of his heart, I have a bridge to sell you..... a bridge to nowhere... which Palin was for before she was against. Palin took on big oil by TAXING them! Palin had, along with Ted Stevens, one of the biggest earmark requests for her state.... something even McCain called her out on.

[ocnblu]

Time will tell if this decision was worth it. So far there's been a lot of rancor and no changed minds. Everybody's just banging their heads against the wall in this thread.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well it seems as though Oldsmoboi has been reading the gossip rags, as evidenced by his ridiculous 9:30 pm post, and look at Borger, happily agreeing with the drivel spewed, even reposting the garbage. Oh my, this is just too, too much.

call me out then.... show me links where I am wrong. Go ahead. Give me a link for each bullet and show me I'm wrong. Sorry to disappoint you OCN, but I deal in facts. I'm not the SMK of the political thread.

1. Obama ranks as the magazine's most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006. As for conservative rating, McCain missed too many votes to get a rating.

2. Palin TAXED big oil.

3. Palin tried to get Harry Potter books banned from the library and threatened to fire the librarian who opposed her.

4. Palin abused her power to try and get a state trooper, who used to be her brother in law, fired. It is also now coming out that she may have illegally accessed his personnel records.

5. McCain voted with President Bush 90% of the time.

6. Sarah Palin's speech at the convention was written by Bush's speechwriter and was partially written even before SP was selected.

Summary, if looking like the current administration is the criterion for being a "traditional conservative", then Palin and McCain fit that bill.

6. Jesus was a community organizer. Pilot was a Governor.

7. How do you come to the conclusion that Obama wants to lose the war? He suggested a timetable for withdrawal over a year ago and got shouted down for it. Guess what? Bush and Maliki have been hammering out a time table for withdrawal. Obama suggested talking to our enemies and was shouted down as an "appeaser". Guess what? Bush has been sending emissaries to Iran to work out an agreement.

Just wanted to correct some of your "facts"

[Drew Dowdell]

Time will tell if this decision was worth it. So far there's been a lot of rancor and no changed minds. Everybody's just banging their heads against the wall in this thread.

it is difficult to have a discussion when your opposition has their ears and eyes closed yet their mouths wide open.

[Camino LS6]

Suggestion:

Forget the individuals involved for a while and post what you want from your next administration.

For myself, I will be waiting for some time yet before deciding my vote.

I am certain that much remains to be learned.

[Camino LS6]

For me, this time, the most important issue is an energy policy.

I have yet to hear a comprehensive plan, adequately illustrated, by either party.

But, I believe that both will have to offer such a plan sooner rather than later.

That is a ray of hope.

[the_yellow_dart]

Seriously though, does nobody consider foreign relations when choosing a president? I don't see how anyone can choose McCain, if you do. It's basically flipping the rest of the world the finger, saying, "We ARE Team America, world police."

Canada won't be a good ally much longer if the political rift keeps widening. Another step in the Republican direction is not what we need right now.

[Drew Dowdell]

I want:

1. Someone who will make reducing the country's debt the number one priority; No more short term tax rebates at the expense of long term fiscal stability.

2. Someone who will use diplomacy rather than cruise missiles to accomplish foreign policy goals.

3. Someone who will make alternative energy the "Manhatten Project" of our time.

a. Who understands that domestic drilling is only a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

b. Who will repeal the ban on breeder reactors.

4. Someone socially libertarian.

[Camino LS6]

I want:

1. Someone who will make reducing the country's debt amajor priority; No more expansion of government programs at the expense of long term fiscal stability.

2. Someone who will use diplomacy as well as cruise missiles to accomplish foreign policy goals.

3. Someone who will make alternative energy the "Manhatten Project" of our time.

a. Who understands that domestic drilling is only a temporary solution to a permanent problem,

but recognizes the need to drill here and now

.

b. Who will repeal the ban on breeder reactors,

and will foster the immediate construction of new nuclear plants

.

4. Someone socially libertarian.

Adapted/edited to be closer to my viewpoint.

I would also add this:

5. Recognizes the strategic necessity of moving enough of our oil and gas infrastructure beyond the reach of Gulf hurricanes. And, the serious need to expand the refining capabilities of the nation.

[Drew Dowdell]

I can concede those points Camino. I felt that your additions at the end of sub-point "a" and "b" were kind of assumed by my phrasing.

I would make the debt the number 1 priority because of the precarious position it puts our country in. Anyone who wants lower taxes should be championing the cause for government debt elimination. The U.S. needs to borrow $2 billion a day from the Chinese/Arabs/etc just to keep the currency from tanking. It's worse than importing oil.

What happens when China/Arabs/etc decide to turn off the tap?

[gm4life]

Vote for McCain/Palin, and that's what you're getting. Voting with Bush 90% of the time does not a reformer make.

Are banning books and abusing power your social values?

Like McCain being on Leno about 7 times? What is suddenly wrong with community service?

Again, McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. Not the credentials of a reformer.

Obama has sponsored "131 bills since Jan 4, 2005.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, which were formally sponsored by Senators Coburn and Lugar, respectively. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

Progressive energy policy does not include cruise missiles or troop numbers. You'll get more money back under Barack's tax plan than McCains...... unless you are in the top 1% income earners.

If you think McCain is doing this out of the kindness of his heart, I have a bridge to sell you..... a bridge to nowhere... which Palin was for before she was against. Palin took on big oil by TAXING them! Palin had, along with Ted Stevens, one of the biggest earmark requests for her state.... something even McCain called her out on.

Yes I want a president whom ultimately will keep us on the defensive and I want a president whom will actually drill for oil not just tell you to get a tune-up. I want a president that will cut everyones taxes to help put more money in everyones pocket so they can invest in the economy or save it. The 10 percent of the time he hasn't voted with Bush are the times when he is reforming and straying away from the republican party. That is the kind of president I want. Drill, Drill, Drill and Drill some more. And what is the matter with G.W.B he isn't he devil and root of all problems from 2000-2008. I think his congress with the lowest apporval rating speaks for itself. I think it might be lower than his. Yeah and progessive energy policy does include CNG, E85 and drilling for oil on our shore something Obama want's nothing to do with. I am going to go out a limb here and say after the CBS poll which has them tied brand new out last night Barack is getting worried, with the new energy and Palin on the ticket. Wasn't this suppose to be a slam-dunk year? With the dems ahead 20 percentage points. So go ahead sip your change kool-aid.

Olds your a good guy I just disagree with your politics.

As for what I want from my next president more domestic drilling, and lower taxes.

[Drew Dowdell]

Related: Unemployment hit 6.1% - we are most certainly in a recession.

And that 6.1% is just the people who are on unemployment. The government stops counting people as unemployed after their benefits run out.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yes I want a president whom ultimately will keep us on the defensive

Out of necessity?

and I want a president whom will actually drill for oil not just tell you to get a tune-up. I want a president that will cut everyones taxes to help put more money in everyones pocket so they can invest in the economy or save it.

That is just plain fiscally irresponsible. If you want a president who will help you financially (which is what I'm reading that you really want), you want a president who will tackle the federal debt and aim to strengthen the dollar. You want a president who will enforce stricter and more conservative financial requirement on financial institutions. Yes it's more government regulation, but the banks got greedy and f-ed it up. They want bailouts so the government should have a say in how they are being run.

The 10 percent of the time he hasn't voted with Bush are the times when he is reforming and straying away from the republican party. That is the kind of president I want.

90% of Bush is still a lot of Bush.

And what is the matter with G.W.B he isn't he devil and root of all problems from 2000-2008.

I think his congress with the lowest apporval rating speaks for itself. I think it might be lower than his.

The REAL Bush economic record

1. The USA needs $2B a day from China et al or could not keep its economy stable or spare the dollar from collapse.

2. The USA already has close to $10 Trillion in national debt

3. The USA has a trade deficit of $800B/yr

4. The USA is the prime engine for derivatives 'ticking bomb' that grew into a massive bubble, from about $100 trillion in 2000 to $516 trillion by 2007 that is going off in blowback stages

5. The USA already has way too many Americans overwhelmed by personal debt racking up a household debt-to-income ratio of 1.42 ( for total of $13.8 trillion in debt including mortgages ) that already matches the country’s $14 trillion G.D.P.

6. The USA has Bush boy racking up $32 Trillion dollars in total liabilities and unfunded commitments for future payments since 2000.

and that's just in finance.

Yeah and progessive energy policy does include CNG, E85 and drilling for oil on our shore something Obama want's nothing to do with.

From BarackObama.com:

Promote the Responsible Domestic Production of Oil and Natural Gas.

An Obama administration will establish a process for early identification of any infrastructure obstacles/shortages or possible federal permitting process delays to drilling in the Bakken Shale formation, the Barnett shale formation, and the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska.

A “Use it or Lose It” Approach to Existing Oil and Gas Leases.

Obama will require oil companies to develop the 68 million acres of land (over 40 million of which are offshore) which they have already leased and are not drilling on.

I am going to go out a limb here and say after the CBS poll which has them tied brand new out last night Barack is getting worried, with the new energy and Palin on the ticket. Wasn't this suppose to be a slam-dunk year? With the dems ahead 20 percentage points. So go ahead sip your change kool-aid.

It's called an outlier, so don't go breaking out your Vintage 2000 inauguration champagne yet.

Olds your a good guy I just disagree with your politics.

As for what I want from my next president more domestic drilling, and lower taxes.

You'll get more domestic drilling regardless of who is president. Energy prices will ensure that <I work in the energy sector remember?>.

I want lower taxes also, but through addressing the national debt. The interest expense on the national debt is up to $401,333,563,677.75 so far for 2008. That's $1,337 for every man, woman, and child in this country..... just in interest.

[loki]

What's wrong with Ted Kennedy or MLK? For an immigrant you have a twisted view of the US...

MLK, if you read his letters from birmingham jail, i'd hope you realize he's talking from a more conservative mindset, conservative as in individualistic.

He has so little in common with the liberals that that put him on a pedestal

I want:

1. Someone who will make reducing the country's debt the number one priority

2. Someone who will use diplomacy rather than cruise missiles to accomplish foreign policy goals.

3. Someone who will make alternative energy market driven

4. Someone socially libertarian.

#3, stop using subsidies to make uneconomical businesses stay afloat.....this includes oil prices.

#5 a person that places rule of law above all else. this means the highest law( s ), the constitution in originally made purpose, but this could be the sum of the rest of it.

i think my vote may be a write in or constitution party.

[Drew Dowdell]

#3, stop using subsidies to make uneconomical businesses stay afloat.....this includes oil prices.

I think alternative energy will need some initial government funding to get it started and achieve critical mass.

[loki]

6. Jesus was a community organizer. Pilot was a Governer.

Obama is the 2nd coming right? farthest from it.

The strongest foreign policy expert in the Senate going up against a 2 year Governor who's foreign policy experience is "she's near Russia".

and why would a senator be doing foreign policy stuff? he was elected to be a senator for a state, not an ambassador!!!!

Really? WTF? Did you get that from a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: OBAMA OSAMA IS A MUSLIM@Q!!@!!!!!! email or something?

He must have..there is a lot of fake BS about him out the net, sadly.

ok guys, i said ideas, not he was one.

#1 not voting for a ban on letting failed abortion born infants die. islam is not really prolife. so whether or not he's a muslim, he "agrees" if he knows it or not.

#2. it's bad to make money on money, that's why islamic banks don't charge interest on loans to other muslims (not "heathens"). BO wants to heavily tax capital gains, and his more taxing the "rich" is just trying to make him a legal robin hood. that robin hooding actually doesn't go to the poor it goes to gov't first. and i bet <1% will be redistributed to the "poor".

there is fake B.S about anyone that's a "public figure", but alot of it is prolly more tangential than totally B.S.

but i liked that both of you read what i wrote and responded with what you thought "everyone knew" stereotypical drivel, when i had something real based on his ideas and facts.

side note, if you think we'd be electing the first black president, BO is <20% black. he's more arab and more "white" (or mixed white) than he's black. anyone voting for him because he's black is a racist, by trying to be anti-racist.

the church he went to is partialy based on biggoted ideas. why would someone that has their own ideas stay at a place that one doesn't agree with unless he isn't enough of a man/individual to really stand up for what is right, or his own idea of what is right.

BO is not the leader everyone thinks he is.

[loki]

I think alternative energy will need some initial government funding to get it started and achieve critical mass.

really? i know you want the budget balanced...paying debt off to elimination, well subsidies also stand in the way of that. it's not impossible to do both, but you want the debt to be priority #1. so everything not critical will have to be looked at and determined to be a waste of tax (all forms) money. once the debt would be paid off, the prosperity that comes from the strength of the dollar and next to nothing regulations would not need subsidies.

so your subsidies are hypocritical to getting the debt payed off.

[Drew Dowdell]

Obama is the 2nd coming right? farthest from it.

No, I'm just responding to Palin and the Repulican's dis of Obama doing community service.

and why would a senator be doing foreign policy stuff? he was elected to be a senator for a state, not an ambassador!!!!

Do your own research. Biden is Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee. If you're going to make statements about a candidate, at least be informed about it.

ok guys, i said ideas, not he was one.

You know, not all muslim ideas are bad... and a good many are bibilcally based.

#1 not voting for a ban on letting failed abortion born infants die.

Again, do your own research or stop making uninformed statements.

At issue is his vote on a bill entitled, ‘Born Alive Infants Protection Act’ – BAIPA, for short — which was first introduced into the Illinois legislature in 2001. I have read the exact wording of the bill and the term ‘infanticide’ does not appear anywhere. Fear-mongering with this word is, at the least, a stretch; and, at the worst, a lie. It is a concern for Catholic America because some of the verbal terrorism comes with a Catholic label.

The legislation would have required the state to provide health care to children born alive after an abortion. Now, existing Illinois law already covered all children. But the BAIPA was intended to create a special status for the survivors of abortion – mostly late-term abortion. The BAIPA clarified that these survivors were ‘children.’ If that was all the law intended, I think it should have been passed and Obama’s self-identified faith should have led him to vote for it.

But things are not always as they seem. Although phrased in legalese, there were three additional and problematic provisions. First, the BAIPA would have immediately usurped the rights of the parents without any hearing or legal process. Second, the act would have mandated taxpayer funds be used for the health care as long as the needy child was alive, administered by still another government bureaucracy. Third, it gave a green light to trial lawyers to sue just about everybody on two legs.

#2. it's bad to make money on money, that's why islamic banks don't charge interest on loans to other muslims (not "heathens"). BO wants to heavily tax capital gains, and his more taxing the "rich" is just trying to make him a legal robin hood. that robin hooding actually doesn't go to the poor it goes to gov't first. and i bet <1% will be redistributed to the "poor".

Actually, Obama would just allow the cuts Bush made to expire. Tax rates would go back to the time of Clinton... when we had a budget surplus and we were reducing the deficit.

side note, if you think we'd be electing the first black president, BO is <20% black. he's more arab and more "white" (or mixed white) than he's black. anyone voting for him because he's black is a racist, by trying to be anti-racist.

the church he went to is partialy based on biggoted ideas. why would someone that has their own ideas stay at a place that one doesn't agree with unless he isn't enough of a man/individual to really stand up for what is right, or his own idea of what is right.

BO is not the leader everyone thinks he is.

I don't care about the president's gender nor race.

Palin's pastor claims terrorism is God's judgment of the Jews.

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [brickner's son]was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin's husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wanted Alaska to leave the U.S.

That should sew up the south Florida vote pretty good.

Palin is not the leader everyone thinks she is.....

[Drew Dowdell]

really? i know you want the budget balanced...paying debt off to elimination, well subsidies also stand in the way of that. it's not impossible to do both, but you want the debt to be priority #1. so everything not critical will have to be looked at and determined to be a waste of tax (all forms) money. once the debt would be paid off, the prosperity that comes from the strength of the dollar and next to nothing regulations would not need subsidies.

so your subsidies are hypocritical to getting the debt payed off.

Incorrect. The country must continue to operate while the debt is being serviced. In many cases the projects could be subsidized by tax breaks and regulatory streamlining of energy projects.

There is also the problem of paying off the debt too fast. Yes it's possible. If we paid down our debt too quickly we could potentially cause massive inflation at home (though at the moment it would just stabilize our current deflation) and economic chaos abroad... especially in China.

[Sixty8panther]

There is also the problem of paying off the debt too fast. Yes it's possible.

Probably VERY unlikely with either... any prez.

[Drew Dowdell]

Probably VERY unlikely with either... any prez.

I know.... I was addressing Loki's point where he called me hypocritical for wanting to make paying the debt top priority while also funding alternative energy start up costs.

[Sixty8panther]

Right. it's just such a pie in the sky scenario.

As far as the inflation/deflation problem, that's

a big part of the overall economic situation

right now... imho

[Drew Dowdell]

Right. it's just such a pie in the sky scenario.

As far as the inflation/deflation problem, that's

a big part of the overall economic situation

right now... imho

It's the symptom rather than the cause.

[regfootball]

Yes... there are many parts of the country where the good blue collar jobs are gone, all that is left are McJobs at McDonalds and Wal-F*ck. People that have little education and marketable skills are screwed if they can't leave those areas... I've seen it first hand in the small towns and rural areas of Ohio where I'm from originally. It's sad..the malaise on the people of those areas.

Without smarts, a few college degrees, marketable skills and the mobility to go to large metro areas, I'd be dead in the water like many people (some relatives) from that world if I had stayed there. I realized when I was young that there was no way I could have a good six-figure income staying in Podunk.

well if you stayed in podunkville you could at least cling to guns and religion...LOL

[gm4life]

Obviously we aren't getting anywhere I like John McCain and Sarah Palin more than Barack Obama and Joe Biden is the button line.

[Robert Hall]

well if you stayed in podunkville you could at least cling to guns and religion...LOL

Not me... those things don't mean anything to me... I'd rather be in suburbia driving my SUV to Starbucks and Target..

Anyway, from my POV a vote for the Repubs is a vote for the same old, same old..the status quo, or in the terminology of the 60s, the 'Establishment' and the 'squares'.

I'm more interested in the future, and moving forward, not dwelling on the past. I'm an idealist and progressive. Being in the tech industry, I have to keep looking forward... the Democrats present a more progressive forward vision, IMHO, and thus, I will vote for them.

Edited September 6, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Obviously we aren't getting anywhere I like John McCain and Sarah Palin more than Barack Obama and Joe Biden is the button line.

Support John McCain all you want but don't do so on premises that are so easily proven to be false. If you like Bush and support John McCain because he is similar, just say so. About the only thing that will change in a McCain administration is the stationary.

[A Horse With No Name]

Not me... those things don't mean anything to me... I'd rather be in suburbia driving my SUV to Starbucks and Target..

Anyway, from my POV a vote for the Repubs is a vote for the same old, same old...I'm more interested in the future, and moving forward, not dwelling on the past. Being in the tech industry, I have to keep looking forward... the Democrats present a more progressive forward vision, IMHO, and thus, I will vote for them.

+1.

I used to vote about 85% Republican, but I think Mr. bush has cured me of that...on a permanant basis.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

+1.

I used to vote about 85% Republican, but I think Mr. bush has cured me of that...on a permanant basis.

Chris

The funny thing in my family is that my sister and I have always voted Democrat, my Mom and brother are hard core Republicans, and my late father often voted either way, depending on the candidates....

[siegen]

If anyone needs incentive to vote McCain/Palin.....

With that hysterical smirk and strong pointing finger, McCain/Palin should have no trouble humiliating terrorists and those radical nations into submission.

Imagine when the terrorists ask for mercy and they get this response:

Just trying to put the fun back into the thread.

[Robert Hall]

That's a funny one.. this a great one..needs a caption.

how about

"You had me at hello"

[Oracle of Delphi]

[SoCalCTS]

Intellectual property rights???

Are Republicans the new China?? This is kind of funny...

Heart have sent a cease-and-desist letter to the Republican Party in the US after controversial Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin used their song during her appearance at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday (September 3).

Heart singers Ann and Nancy Wilson say that the Republicans did not ask for permission to use their track ‘Barracuda’. The song is unofficially the theme for Palin, who was nicknamed ‘Sarah Barracuda’ when she played basketball in high school.

The Wilsons have asked the party not to use the song again and say they would not have allowed it to be used in the first place.

"The Republican campaign did not ask for permission to use the song, nor would they have been granted that permission," the sisters said in a statement, according to Reuters.

The Republicans were sued last month by Jackson Browne after they reportedly used his song ‘Running On Empty’ in an ad for Presidential candidate John McCain.

[loki]

No, I'm just responding to Palin and the Repulican's dis of Obama doing community service.

Do your own research. Biden is Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee. If you're going to make statements about a candidate, at least be informed about it.

You know, not all muslim ideas are bad... and a good many are bibilcally based.

Again, do your own research or stop making uninformed statements.

Actually, Obama would just allow the cuts Bush made to expire. Tax rates would go back to the time of Clinton... when we had a budget surplus and we were reducing the deficit.

I don't care about the president's gender nor race.

Palin's pastor claims terrorism is God's judgment of the Jews.

Palin's husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wanted Alaska to leave the U.S.

That should sew up the south Florida vote pretty good.

Palin is not the leader everyone thinks she is.....

line for line, or so.

ok, i'm was mainly saying that's a horrible comparison in context.

and the senate needs to talk about foreign stuff why? they're supposed to be helping inside the US, not the outside.

i didn't say all muslim ideas are bad. at least a few of them don't jive with what this country was founded on though. biblically based...maybe, but they still don't actually use it, and since you said bible, aka christian, it skews it pretty badly in spots. Mohammad was prolly not literate so he could only go by oral tradition, and i don't know if he spoke greek, cause that's what the "new" books of the bible were written in.

usually when you quote things you give your source..... i saw none. what is it?

back in the clinton years, yes, defense spending was cut and, oh yeah, the congress was run by republicans. and he used cruise missles to supress the iraqi infrastructure being built up.

i don't care about the race or gender either, but i want to beable to agree with them more than 50% of the time, but there will be people voting on race or gender.

palin's pastor... well that's just not a christian thing to say/propagate either, and it's very ignorant of studied reasons why terrorism really happens.

it should be the state's right to vote on leaving the union if it's brought up to a vote.

don't get the florida "joke"

i don't care if palin is a leader, i can't know why if anyone else does.

Incorrect. The country must continue to operate while the debt is being serviced. In many cases the projects could be subsidized by tax breaks and regulatory streamlining of energy projects.

There is also the problem of paying off the debt too fast. Yes it's possible. If we paid down our debt too quickly we could potentially cause massive inflation at home (though at the moment it would just stabilize our current deflation) and economic chaos abroad... especially in China.

i'm not saying the country would shut down. but really all the federal gov't should do is make truely needed constitutional laws, defend us, and interact with other countries, in a lawful way.

more than 50% of the national programs, by far, is just fluff, socialistic, or tyrannical.

[loki]

Intellectual property rights???

Are Republicans the new China?? This is kind of funny...

did the DNC play any music? i really don't know.

i think it's more like they had commercial copies to play there, but since the news was there, they didn't have "enterprise" rights.

it's the, "playing music from your car, but if other people hear it how can you stop that" question.

[Camino LS6]

I can concede those points Camino. I felt that your additions at the end of sub-point "a" and "b" were kind of assumed by my phrasing.

I would make the debt the number 1 priority because of the precarious position it puts our country in. Anyone who wants lower taxes should be championing the cause for government debt elimination. The U.S. needs to borrow $2 billion a day from the Chinese/Arabs/etc just to keep the currency from tanking. It's worse than importing oil.

What happens when China/Arabs/etc decide to turn off the tap?

See? Our viewpoints aren't terribly far apart. :AH-HA_wink:

On the "addendum" I added, I just feel that these two points are critical and have gone unaddressed by the candidates so far.

On the debt issue, I recognize the gravity of the problem and agree that it must be a high priority item. However, I place the energy issue above it as I see it as even more manipulative than the US' financing arrangements, as a national security issue, and as an anchor holding the economy back. Imagine the instant economic bonus of energy independence and the attendant psychological boost that it would give us all.

I want to see that now!

[SoCalCTS]

See? Our viewpoints aren't terribly far apart. :AH-HA_wink:

On the "addendum" I added, I just feel that these two points are critical and have gone unaddressed by the candidates so far.

On the debt issue, I recognize the gravity of the problem and agree that it must be a high priority item. However, I place the energy issue above it as I see it as even more manipulative than the US' financing arrangements, as a national security issue, and as an anchor holding the economy back. Imagine the instant economic bonus of energy independence and the attendant psychological boost that it would give us all.

I want to see that now!

The best way to stop energy speculation would be to increase the capital gains taxes on commodities and increase the base tax rate for stock brokers!

[Camino LS6]

The best way to stop energy speculation would be to increase the capital gains taxes on commodities and increase the base tax rate for stock brokers!

That misses my point entirely.

[loki]

a stronger dollar would, i think, keep oil flowing in our direction, if we don't open up more drilling here first/anyway.

[Camino LS6]

a stronger dollar would, i think, keep oil flowing in our direction, if we don't open up more drilling here first/anyway.

I don't want more oil to flow from elsewhere - I want that replaced with domestic sources of energy.

Permanently.

And immediately.

[balthazar]

>>"What's wrong with yuppies? "<<

Self-centered? Self-righteous? Judgemental? Vain? Superficial? Ignorant? I dunno, what is wrong with them?

[balthazar]

>>"Really? WTF? Did you get that from a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: OBAMA OSAMA IS A MUSLIM@Q!!@!!!!!! email or something?"<<

Maybe he got it from the fact that his father was muslim and for a short while during his youth BO was enrolled in an islamic school. I know: 'long time ago'.

Fast forward, 2008: BO was supposed to give a prominent speaking role @ the DNC (didn't watch it- did it happen?) to Dr Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), an organisation created by the radical Saudi-funded Muslim Students Assoc.. So what? The Justice Department has ID's the ISNA as a Muslim Brotherhood front organization and a co-conspirator in a terrorism financing conspiracy.

The ISNA is one of many Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated groups operating in the U.S.. Court-documented evidence from the MB itself states that "the work {of Brotherhood members} in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

What does all this mean in regards to BO and his apparent acceptance & de facto endorsement of these organizations by continuing to associate with them?

Good f'ing question... who's got the answer ??

[Intrepidation]

I'm not bothering to read this entire thread, but way to much is being spoken of religion in relation to plotics and the candidates. Church and State should be separate. Plain and simple.

[loki]

multiculturalism is childish and will tear this country apart.

[loki]

I'm not bothering to read this entire thread, but way to much is being spoken of religion in relation to plotics and the candidates. Church and State should be separate. Plain and simple.

any religion cannot be gov't endorsed or be suppressed because of the 1st amendment. that makes sense. but that phrase was only used once in the history of the federal gov't before it was "canonized"... Jefferson's letter to some people in Massachusetts if i recall.