McCain's trend

[G. David Felt]

McCain is just too afraid to chagne from a debate on security to one on the Economy as Obama say Americans will want to hear on Friday. I totally agree with Obama, a president should be able to handle multiple issues, the financial mess and this debate. If he does not want to talk then move up and put the two VP's on stage to debate.

O'h wait, the woman who says do what I say and not what I do with a failed parenting agenda and a knocked up 17 year old due to her stupidity about talking to her kids about birth control but is ready to be the VP once she learns what that person does and to take on the presidential roll if anything happens to McCain is kept away from the public except for Photo Ops.

What a sad day for the GOP, a group that has been hijacked by a bunch of Religous terroist and turned into a do what we say not what we do group with one of the most Bloated "Grow the Government"Agenda's ever. Yup Bush has doubled our national debt and grown the government more than any other president and the GOP says they are conservative and for small government. RIGHT!!!!

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Captain Smith-McCain aimed us right at an iceburg and ordered full speed ahead.

After we hit the iceburg Captain Smith-McCain says the gash isn't all that bad and suggests the ship is structurally sound and not to panic.

The entire prow is now under water, half the crew and passengers have drowned, yet Captain Smith-McCain insists the structure is still good.

The tail of the ship is now up in the air like a feeding duck, so Captain Smith-McCain calls the engine room and orders an ALL STOP to see if there is damage.

Captain Smith-McCain boldly declares that we shouldn't have aimed for the iceburg; Hailed as a maverick and a hero.

Leadership first.

Your analogy is neat but its wrong on a few levels. 1) Captain Smith was informed of icebergs up ahead, however he ordered that the ship remain on full ahead, the was intent on breaking the record (similar to democrats not listening to the warning in early 2005) 2) there was no gash on the titanic, the rivets popped which allowed water in through the seams. 3) the watertight doors (the regulators) operated just fine unfortunately the ship was not designed for flooding of more than i believe 6 to 8 of its compartments and still stay afloat (this is not the case in todays situation). 4) Smith ordered evacuations, women and children first. Unfortunately many passengers believed the ship was unsinkable and stayed aboard (initial lifeboats left less than half full), 5) If the ship was up in the air, the only purpose of having the engine rooms running would be to power the electrical system, damage checks were done nearly immediately, SOS (which was a new code at the time and had replaced the old CQD distress signal) was sent out. The closest ship, the California's radio operator had gone to bed shortly before the signal was sent out. Other ships received the signal but did not want to tread through these iceberg laden waters. The Carpathia's captain decided to do something about it and sailed full ahead to the Titanic's position. 6) Captain Smith went down with his ship.

So perty, so perty old reliable was.

and COME ON PEOPLE the Global Warming/Environment/Energy etc McCain and Obama say damn near the same exact things about both! Its different, but its not different enough to be a game changer.

On a sidenote:

Whats interesting about this picture?

Edited September 24, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[capriceman]

Titianic and Britiania? and that tug looks like it is about to hit one of the boats and possible life boat between teh boats

[gm4life]

"You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves... I think someone's putting something in his metamucil. He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she? What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

--David Letterman

Look whom the quote came from. You wanna talk about an idot.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Titianic and Britiania? and that tug looks like it is about to hit one of the boats and possible life boat between teh boats

Ah so close! Its the Titanic and its other sister ship, the Olympic.

The picture above that one is the Olympic too, which saw service in WWI and was finally scrapped in the mid 30s.

[Intrepidation]

Titianic and Britiania? and that tug looks like it is about to hit one of the boats and possible life boat between teh boats

Britannic was under construction at the time.

Ah so close! Its the Titanic and its other sister ship, the Olympic.

The picture above that one is the Olympic too, which saw service in WWI and was finally scrapped in the mid 30s.

Yep, one of the few photos with the sister ships together. Olympic was the only one of the Olympic Class liners to actually fulfill its intended purpose as a liner. Titanic sank on it's maiden voyage and Britannic was suck during WW before ever serving as a liner.

Couple fun facts:

• Did you know Britannic was originally to be named Gigantic, but the name was changed after Titanic went down?
• Olympic was the only civilian ship of WWI to sink a U-Boat, by ramming it and cutting it in half.

It's ashame that no one thought to save the last of the Olympic class liners instead of melting it down for scrap.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

• Did you know Britannic was originally to be named Gigantic, but the name was changed after Titanic went down?
• Olympic was the only civilian ship of WWI to sink a U-Boat, by ramming it and cutting it in half.

The Queen Mary cut one of its escort ships in half. The QM had to stop and pick up all the crew. The QM suffered minor damage to its bow.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Satty]

Now McCain wants to have the first debate October 2nd and postpone the VP debate. Yeah, its not obvious that he doesn't think Palin is ready. And why is he so certain that a bailout bill will be passed by next Thursday? If it isn't, is he going to skip that as well? And why is he so determined to pass something that GOP platform adopted last month says is unacceptable? Obama wants the debate to go on, the Commission on Presidential Debates wants the debate to go on, McCain is the only one who doesn't, and I dont think he'll win. If he skips, Obama gets two hours in a hall in Oxford, MS with no opponent and a national tv audience.

[Drew Dowdell]

Your analogy is neat but its wrong on a few levels. 1) Captain Smith was informed of icebergs up ahead, however he ordered that the ship remain on full ahead, the was intent on breaking the record (similar to democrats not listening to the warning in early 2005) 2) there was no gash on the titanic, the rivets popped which allowed water in through the seams. 3) the watertight doors (the regulators) operated just fine unfortunately the ship was not designed for flooding of more than i believe 6 to 8 of its compartments and still stay afloat (this is not the case in todays situation). 4) Smith ordered evacuations, women and children first. Unfortunately many passengers believed the ship was unsinkable and stayed aboard (initial lifeboats left less than half full), 5) If the ship was up in the air, the only purpose of having the engine rooms running would be to power the electrical system, damage checks were done nearly immediately, SOS (which was a new code at the time and had replaced the old CQD distress signal) was sent out. The closest ship, the California's radio operator had gone to bed shortly before the signal was sent out. Other ships received the signal but did not want to tread through these iceberg laden waters. The Carpathia's captain decided to do something about it and sailed full ahead to the Titanic's position. 6) Captain Smith went down with his ship.

ok... now you're a dumbass :neenerneener:

Way to over analyze it there Data

[Satty]

Ummm....am I the only one that doesn't want McCain at the helm of any boat? Sure, he's a Navy guy, but he wasn't a boat guy, he was a plane guy. And he crashed 5 planes. (Ok, maybe one of them wasn't his fault)

Edited September 25, 2008 by Satty

[loki]

Amazingly, a trillion dollars later, the American population is too stupid to realize that it is largely republican deregulation that has gotten us here in the first place.

1930's, Deregulated banks collapse

1980's, Deregulated Savings and loans fall aprt.

1990's, deregulated utilites fall apart.

2008, deregulated/unregulated investment banking fails.

Part of being intelligent is learning from your mistakes. I think my dog learns faster than certain folks who call for "deregulation" and call for an unregulated buisiness climate.

Chris

you forgot 1913. the FED...central bank, central economic planning, therefor much easier to deficit spend, create larger government, "regulate the economy"...create "market driven" bubbles, that are more like bad bank/loan practices. sound familiar?

[loki]

about the titanic and such, there was show looking at the blue prints that showed they tried a horrible expansion joint on it or the sister ship...and that was very close or the place the ship ripped in half.

[loki]

fox intervue with ron paul right after he questioned bernk. lol

[mustang84]

In an interview today, Palin said to Katie Couric that the US "appears to be headed down the road to another Great Depression" if the $700 billion bailout bill does not pass. This coming from the same camp that said there was no problem and the fundamentals of our economy were strong. All in the span of about a week.

You want to know why McCain's rating is tanking? They have no consistency between the two of them. He says one thing, she says the other, and both have had a total 180 degree change in opinion of our economic state. Inconsistency is not reassuring, especially not in times of crisis; I don't want a president that will be running around with his head was cut off at every bump in the road. None of McCain's campaigning the last couple weeks has spelled leadership; it spells desperation.

[Intrepidation]

Now McCain wants to have the first debate October 2nd and postpone the VP debate. Yeah, its not obvious that he doesn't think Palin is ready. And why is he so certain that a bailout bill will be passed by next Thursday? If it isn't, is he going to skip that as well? And why is he so determined to pass something that GOP platform adopted last month says is unacceptable? Obama wants the debate to go on, the Commission on Presidential Debates wants the debate to go on, McCain is the only one who doesn't, and I dont think he'll win. If he skips, Obama gets two hours in a hall in Oxford, MS with no opponent and a national tv audience.

Yup, and according to polls most people want the debate to go on as well. Seems McCain is the only one who doesn't.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

It sounds as if this bill is going to get sent through. It's a shame it had to come to this though.

Besides, its poor leadership to go around telling people how bad it is. That's all Bush has done. Obama is terrible when it comes to reassuring people about the economy. You dont go around saying "this is the worst crisis since the depression". you come out saying "Well, times are tough, but i see potential" thats essentially what FDR said during the depression.

If you go around telling people "oh my god things are terrible, you should be scared, things are just awful" then people loose even more confidence and things get even worse.

[siegen]

fox intervue with ron paul right after he questioned bernk. lol

RP seems to be a very good economist. It's refreshing to hear a politician speak so directly and have so much knowledge. I hear he has some pretty nonconservative ideas though, and seems very opinionated.

[Intrepidation]

It sounds as if this bill is going to get sent through. It's a shame it had to come to this though.

Besides, its poor leadership to go around telling people how bad it is. That's all Bush has done. Obama is terrible when it comes to reassuring people about the economy. You dont go around saying "this is the worst crisis since the depression". you come out saying "Well, times are tough, but i see potential" thats essentially what FDR said during the depression.

If you go around telling people "oh my god things are terrible, you should be scared, things are just awful" then people loose even more confidence and things get even worse.

So instead you tell them the foundation of the economy is stable then do a 180 not long after? How is that better?

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

So instead you tell them the foundation of the economy is stable then do a 180 not long after? How is that better?

It's not.

Thats why a lot of publications have been panning both of them through this whole thing.

[balthazar]

>>"If you go around telling people "oh my god things are terrible, you should be scared, things are just awful" then people loose even more confidence and things get even worse. "<<

QFT

[siegen]

Viewing each candidates spiels on the "economy" issue, and it seems to me Obama/Biden at least have a fairly specific plan. McCain's is mostly generic and vague, he doesn't use very many figures or specifics.

Maybe McCain not knowing much about economics would end up being a good thing, he might not try to fix things so much and it will end up fixing itself.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Maybe McCain not knowing much about economics would end up being a good thing, he might not try to fix things so much and it will end up fixing itself.

I think the president/congress/American people should take this insight to heart 90% of the time.

[AAS]

"You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves... I think someone's putting something in his metamucil. He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she? What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

--David Letterman

Look whom the quote came from. You wanna talk about an idot.

It's David Letterman's job to be an idiot and make people laugh. It is NOT the current president's or presidential candidate's job to be the same.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Heh, what about poor old George Obama, Obama's half brother. He's 26, lives in Kenya. Has a lovely 6'x10' shack.

I mean, sure the man may never have been very close to Obama (considering hes like half the age of Obama and im sure never met the chap until he was older), but still, when the man lives on like $1 a day or whatever it is, even cutting him a check for $100 every once in a while would be huge to him.

At the very least, it would look good to the media.

On the flip side, if this was McCain who had the half brother, the media would be all over him as uncompassionate etc etc.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Drew Dowdell]

Heh, what about poor old George Obama, Obama's half brother. He's 26, lives in Kenya. Has a lovely 6'x10' shack.

I mean, sure the man may never have been very close to Obama (considering hes like half the age of Obama and im sure never met the chap until he was older), but still, when the man lives on like $1 a day or whatever it is, even cutting him a check for $100 every once in a while would be huge to him.

At the very least, it would look good to the media.

On the flip side, if this was McCain who had the half brother, the media would be all over him as uncompassionate etc etc.

So what you're saying is, Obama should just cut a check to him at a regular interval to support him.... but then how would George Obama ever have motivation to better himself?

If Barack becomes President, George is going to need some sort of protection.

[Croc]

Heh, what about poor old George Obama, Obama's half brother. He's 26, lives in Kenya. Has a lovely 6'x10' shack.

I mean, sure the man may never have been very close to Obama (considering hes like half the age of Obama and im sure never met the chap until he was older), but still, when the man lives on like $1 a day or whatever it is, even cutting him a check for $100 every once in a while would be huge to him.

At the very least, it would look good to the media.

On the flip side, if this was McCain who had the half brother, the media would be all over him as uncompassionate etc etc.

Uhhh I remember seeing something on the news about this where they interviewed George...and it was very clear that George was like "cool, I guess...but I'm in Africa and am living my life."

They met late in life, and both have their own lives at this point. So George has a shack...maybe he also has some pride and self-respect, too. How would that look in Africa if he starts getting checks from the US politician? I think George values hard work and an honest, if simple, living...at least that was my take on it when I saw the segment.

Criticizing Obama over that is really stretching it IMO...especially when one can easily point to McCain and his divorce. I'm much more comfortable criticizing someone for what they did over what they didn't do. Criticizing someone for NOT doing something really seems like you'd need to get inside their head and know their thought processes, or facts that just aren't public. Whereas an action is something demonstrable and obvious. My $0.02

Edited September 25, 2008 by Croc

[loki]

RP seems to be a very good economist. It's refreshing to hear a politician speak so directly and have so much knowledge. I hear he has some pretty nonconservative ideas though, and seems very opinionated.

what do you mean nonconservative ideas?

[Drew Dowdell]

Letterman's Ten 10 Questions People Are Asking John McCain

10. I just contributed to your campaign - how do I get my money back?

9. Hi, this is Sarah Palin. Does this mean I'm Parsi'dent?

8. Can't you solve this by selling some of your homes?

7. Hi, this is Clay Aiken. Is McCain single?

6. Do you still think the fundamentals of our economy are strong, genius?

5. Are you doing all of this just to get out of going on Letterman?

4. What would Matlock do?

3. Hillary here, my schedule is free Friday night.

2. Is this just an excuse to catch up on napping?

1. This is President Bush, what's all this trouble with the economy?

[Drew Dowdell]

Two of my employees called to say they couldn’t make it in to work today because of the financial crisis. They think it’s pretty funny. I don’t.

[siegen]

what do you mean nonconservative ideas?

I shouldn't say nonconservative, but "radical". He wants to drastically reduce the size and scope of the government. While that is a politically conservative idea, it is still not "conservative" in the dictionary sense of the word. I think his ideas seem smart but people are afraid of drastic change.

[loki]

I shouldn't say nonconservative, but "radical". He wants to drastically reduce the size and scope of the government. While that is a politically conservative idea, it is still not "conservative" in the dictionary sense of the word. I think his ideas seem smart but people are afraid of drastic change.

yeah, but sadly if people realized how small it was in the 18th and 19th centuries, today's would seem an abomination, and clearly why we have the debt we do have.

the founders of this great nation did base this nation on "Radical" ideas for the time. the only newer "radical idea" has been socialism/communism, and look how that has turned out. hehe

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

I shouldn't say nonconservative, but "radical". He wants to drastically reduce the size and scope of the government. While that is a politically conservative idea, it is still not "conservative" in the dictionary sense of the word. I think his ideas seem smart but people are afraid of drastic change.

Ron Paul is a Libertarian. Libertarians are extremely fiscally conservative and socially liberal (well they also support gun ownership, which is a liberal notion, but the modern liberal's seem to disregard this liberty).

Libertarians believe in small government, which in the traditional meaning of conservative fits. What it doesn't fit is the modern definition of conservative.

Ron Paul is a businessman and has been calling for reform on Fannie and Freddie for a while now. He is usually very good about predicting economic stuff. He would certainly make a good president when it came to the economy. Being a libertarian he is also non-interventionist when it pertains to foreign policy.

He is not really radical, hes just very traditional.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think I'd want RP as a president, but he'd be great on budgetary matters.

[G. David Felt]

RP would make an interesting President that is for sure. Not sure if he would really be any better than McCain or Obama except where the economy is concerned.

[mustang84]

Ron Paul is a Libertarian. Libertarians are extremely fiscally conservative and socially liberal (well they also support gun ownership, which is a liberal notion, but the modern liberal's seem to disregard this liberty).

Libertarians believe in small government, which in the traditional meaning of conservative fits. What it doesn't fit is the modern definition of conservative.

Ron Paul is a businessman and has been calling for reform on Fannie and Freddie for a while now. He is usually very good about predicting economic stuff. He would certainly make a good president when it came to the economy. Being a libertarian he is also non-interventionist when it pertains to foreign policy.

He is not really radical, hes just very traditional.

Ron Paul is who I was gunning for in the primaries. If he was running against Obama right now instead of McCain, I'd be voting for RP this November.

[Drew Dowdell]

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

RP would make an interesting President that is for sure. Not sure if he would really be any better than McCain or Obama except where the economy is concerned.

1) he wants out of Iraq/Afghanistan ASAP

2) he wants the deficit repaid

3) he would attempt to cut lots (most?) government spending (which simply would never make it past congress)

4) he would lower tax rates accordingly (you know, after the deficit is paid off)

5) various other social issues

I doubt most of the things he would want would actually get passed. The only thing i don't agree with him on is that if he had it his way he would literally just up and leave Iraq the first day he was president, which i feel, given the situation, would be irresponsible for America to do so.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm wary of voting for someone under the assumption that something they are for would never get passed.

I disagree with Ron Paul on the gold standard.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

I'm wary of voting for someone under the assumption that something they are for would never get passed.

I disagree with Ron Paul on the gold standard.

If we were still on the gold standard gas would cost like 70 cents. And minimum wage would probably be like 3 bucks. lol

There would probably be a lot less money floating about which would either create stable or deflating prices. Deflating prices are bad for your common borrower, but good for people on fixed incomes.

It's a double edged sword, don't forget why attempts were made to get off the gold standard in the first place.

[G. David Felt]

Boils Down to Political pigs will still screw over the comman tax payer for power and money. McCain did it 90% of the time with W and Dicky Boy so people should be used to his screwing.

At least with Obama, it was only 36% of the time and the rest of the time he was just Present with out doing anything. :rotflmao:

Either way tax payer are screwed due to W's run away spending doctrine.

Interesting next 4 years.

Does it end up a tragedy as the Carter Administration was or better as other administrations have been. Clearly the first year for sure if not the first 2 will be hard and not really any noticable changes due to the mess that is being inherited by the idiot W administrtion.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

So it has come to my attention that Ford was responsible for suspension of America's first nuclear reprocessing plant 3 days before the elections (hmm wonder if that was a ploy to get votes). Carter merely made it indefinitely suspended.

Therefore it is Ford, Carter, and every president thereafter for the lack of recycling of our nuclear energy supply... which politicians like to complain about because where does all this waste go?

I don't know if either president is in favor of nuclear reprocessing or not.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think either of them have addressed it.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

And in the latest news

Obama and McCain are all tied up again according to Gallup tracking.

The political see-saw is fun.

[Drew Dowdell]

At this stage of the game, it's time to really start looking at the electoral vote....

[G. David Felt]

People will realize that this country can not handle 4 more years of the same under McCain, I suspect we will see more states become Blue.

[Intrepidation]

Typical South

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Swing state speculation is nearly pointless until its closer to election day.

[saturnd00d]

Man, I am so happy I live in Canada. Those debt numbers are positively scary.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing

[G. David Felt]

Very true since the last two elections have shown that we need major change due to the corrupt college.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Very true since the last two elections have shown that we need major change due to the corrupt college.

Well Bush outright won the 2004 elections popular vote and electoral, although i guess you could argue that that wouldnt have happened since he lost the 2000 elections in popular vote.

I'm guessing the smaller states are overrepresented in the electoral college?