McCain's trend

[Enzora]

Come on Satty, they are playing good cop, bad cop.

McCain seems to have accepted the use of attack politics, as long as he's not the one who personally has to get his hands dirty.

[Satty]

McCain did get a bump in national polls, but mostly in states he was going to win anyway. The electoral college hasn't changed much and it's now more likely that a scenario where Obama wins the electoral college but loses the popular vote could occur.

That wont happen, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact has been signed into law by at least 4 sure-blue states. If McCain wins the national popular vote (and the subsequent lawsuits are shot down) he'll get the electoral vots of Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii.

[Intrepidation]

If McCain wins I lose all hope for this country, feel we deserve what we get for being idiots, and will likely look into moving somewhere else in the future.

[Drew Dowdell]

That wont happen, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact has been signed into law by at least 4 sure-blue states. If McCain wins the national popular vote (and the subsequent lawsuits are shot down) he'll get the electoral vots of Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii.

Not in effect yet:

States joining the compact will continue to award their electoral votes in their current manner until the compact has been joined by enough states to represent a controlling majority of the Electoral College (currently 270 electoral votes). After that point, all of the electoral votes of the member states would be cast for the winner of the national popular vote in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. With the national popular vote winner sure to have a decisive majority in the Electoral College, he or she would automatically win the Electoral College and therefore the presidency.

[Satty]

Haha...probably should have read the Wiki article on it instead of just copying the link from another Wiki page.

Anywho...The electoral map flipped for McCain for the first time today. Its based on the most recent state polls. But I dont think McCain is going to be able to win all the swing states.

[balthazar]

I did not see the Gibson interview (working), but from the quoted conversation above, can anyone not see the trap Gibson was laying (not that Palin fell into it at all): asking a question using loose, individually-interpretable terminology ("Bush doctrine"), then defining the term after the answer. Not exactly ethical, but it was a reporter, after all.

>>"Palin: I agree that a president's job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America."<<

>>"Oldsmoboi: Actually, the first priority is to defend the constitution of the United States. Palin doesn't even know the oath she is supposed to swear."<<

She was not asked to quote the specifics of what she was going to swear to in the election process. "Top" is not the same as "first", anyway. Semantics aside, are you disagreeing that defending the U.S.A. is a top priority ??

[Enzora]

I did not see the Gibson interview (working), but from the quoted conversation above, can anyone not see the trap Gibson was laying (not that Palin fell into it at all): asking a question using loose, individually-interpretable terminology ("Bush doctrine"), then defining the term after the answer. Not exactly ethical, but it was a reporter, after all.

And the question wasn't a trap. The term "Bush Doctrine" may sound fairly vague to the average hockey mom, but it is a clearly defined view with specific points that anyone running for that kind of office should know in their sleep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

[Satty]

Protecting America at the expense of its own citizens seems fundamentally wrong.

[Drew Dowdell]

I did not see the Gibson interview (working), but from the quoted conversation above, can anyone not see the trap Gibson was laying (not that Palin fell into it at all): asking a question using loose, individually-interpretable terminology ("Bush doctrine"), then defining the term after the answer. Not exactly ethical, but it was a reporter, after all.

>>"Palin: I agree that a president's job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America."<<

>>"Oldsmoboi: Actually, the first priority is to defend the constitution of the United States. Palin doesn't even know the oath she is supposed to swear."<<

She was not asked to quote the specifics of what she was going to swear to in the election process. "Top" is not the same as "first", anyway. Semantics aside, are you disagreeing that defending the U.S.A. is a top priority ??

Bush Doctrine - It was published in 2002. It is a major pillar of foreign policy of this administration. This is high school history/current event and she flunked the oral quiz.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

The duty of the President is to protect Constitution. Protecting the U.S. is part of that duty. Bush has done plenty to protect the U.S. while simultaneously trashing the Constitution. Yes, I see a distinction.

[Drew Dowdell]

Some help for Ms. Palin in the event of another interview. I think I still have my freshman year U.S. History book around somewhere if she wants to borrow it.... but given her previous relations with libraries, I expect some collateral to hold in the event she reads something too offensive for her "pitt bull" senses.

Monroe Doctrine

Roosevelt Corollary

Truman Doctrine

Carter Doctrine

Reagan Doctrine

[Satty]

You forgot the Reagan Doctrine since conservatives get a huge boner anytime Reagan is mentioned, thats probably the one Palin knows.

Edit: Nevermind, I though they were in chronological order in your post. I am retarded today.

Edit to the Edit: I am so sexist for using the word "boner."

Edited September 12, 2008 by Satty

[Drew Dowdell]

5th one down

edit: fixed for the retarded. :AH-HA_wink:

edit to the edit: I have to admit I'm curious about Palin's boner.

[Robert Hall]

Some help for Ms. Palin in the event of another interview. I think I still have my freshman year U.S. History book around somewhere if she wants to borrow it.... but given her previous relations with libraries, I expect some collateral to hold in the event she reads something too offensive for her "pitt bull" senses.

Good idea, but I doubt if she reads much beyond a Bible and Guns and Ammo magazine..

[balthazar]

>>"The duty of the President is to protect Constitution. Protecting the U.S. is part of that duty. Bush has done plenty to protect the U.S. while simultaneously trashing the Constitution. Yes, I see a distinction. "<<

So where do you disagree with defending the U.S.?

>>"Palin: I agree that a president's job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America."<<

Where was the defending the Constitution specifically brought up, and where did Palin refute the veracity of doing so?

To my eye, you are putting a great degree of partisan specificity into her answer.

From your wiki link:

>>>These principles are sometimes referred to as the Bush Doctrine although the term is often used to describe other elements of Bush policy and is not universally recognized as the single concept.<<<

Which is why I stated that asking an open question about a group of various ideals, then definining a specific component of that is 'laying a trap'.

[Drew Dowdell]

She demonstrated no knowledge of it's very existence. She pulled a high school, BS, "I didn't study for the exam last night" answer out of her ass.

For a VP Candidate, a question regarding the current foreign policy of the United States can NOT be considered a "trap".

edit: If she really was going to try and wiggle out of the question, she could have replied "Well which aspect of Bush Doctrine are you referring to?". She didn't. So much for "thinking on her feet" right?

[loki]

#666 lol

[Satty]

I saw this earlier, McCain during one of the Republican debates:

I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training.

I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Satty

[gm4life]

What do you think a community organizer from the south side of Chicago did?

Did something similar except a mayor is held to a higher standard, and has budget and other things to deal with. Oh and she is a governor.

Edited September 13, 2008 by gm4life

[Oracle of Delphi]

Did something similar except a major is held to a higher standard, and has budget and other things to deal with. Oh and she is a governor.

Like Oldsmoboi said, Jesus was a Community Organizer, Pilot was a Governor!

Edited September 12, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Drew Dowdell]

Did something similar except a major is held to a higher standard, and has budget and other things to deal with. Oh and she is a governor.

The full version of the quote Satty is referencing. You can't make this &#036;h&#33; up.

"I have had a strong and a long relationship on national security, I've been involved in every national crisis that this nation has faced since Beirut, I understand the issues, I understand and appreciate the enormity of the challenge we face from radical Islamic extremism. I am prepared. I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training. I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time," - Senator John McCain, October, 2007.

[Satty]

You would think that McCain would have taken things he has said recently into consideration when picking a VP, he could have at least downplayed soundbites like this.. Then again, he is at that Alzheimer's age.

We'll have to see where the polls are after Palin lovers read this weeks Enquirer, she's on the cover and is apparently into all sorts of &#036;h&#33;. I only say this because its pretty obvious that Palin lovers are the same kind of people who believe what they see on the cover of The Enquirer.

[Oracle of Delphi]

You would think that McCain would have taken things he has said recently into consideration when picking a VP, he could have at least downplayed soundbites like this.. Then again, he is at that Alzheimer's age.

We'll have to see where the polls are after Palin lovers read this weeks Enquirer, she's on the cover and is apparently into all sorts of &#036;h&#33;. I only say this because its pretty obvious that Palin lovers are the same kind of people who believe what they see on the cover of The Enquirer.

Well they were right about John Edwards, now they are investigating that she's been screwing her husband's business partner. Maybe that baby they have isn't his after all. That should get the Republican base energized! :rotflmao:

[Satty]

I was hoping it was Sasquatch's baby. That would have been an awesome story. Hey, maybe I can sell that to one of the other tabloids.

[balthazar]

>>"She demonstrated no knowledge of it's very existence."<<

That's your interpretation, and IMO, it's completely unsubstatiated. According to your information source wikipedia ( ):

>>>four main points are highlighted as the core to the Bush Doctrine: Preemption, Military Primacy, New Multilateralism, and the Spread of Democracy.<<<

Gibson asked: "Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?"

and Palin replied, "In what respect, Charlie?"

Then Gibson fumbled: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be?

Reads a lot like it was Gibson who was unsure.

She asked for clarification of his question, since, as you provided; is a multi-pronged issue. Likely she knew she was being gunned for (duh: ABC) and did not wish to get intentionally tripped up.

She did not ask 'What's that, I never heard of that?'.

Edited September 12, 2008 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

>>"She demonstrated no knowledge of it's very existence."<<

That's your interpretation, and IMO, it's completely unsubstatiated. According to your information source wikipedia ( ):

>>>four main points are highlighted as the core to the Bush Doctrine: Preemption, Military Primacy, New Multilateralism, and the Spread of Democracy.<<<

Gibson asked: "Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?"

and Palin replied, "In what respect, Charlie?"

Then Gibson fumbled: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be?

Reads a lot like it was Gibson who was unsure.

She asked for clarification of his question, since, as you provided; is a multi-pronged issue. Likely she knew she was being gunned for (duh: ABC) and did not wish to get intentionally tripped up.

She did not ask 'What's that, I never heard of that?'.

Again, worst case scenario and still be right.... all she had to do was pick one of those.

Edit: This is the same woman who two month ago said "well first I need someone to tell me exactly what it is the Vice President does!"...

No benefit of the doubt for you.

[ocnblu]

Yes sir, the Dems don't know what to think of Sarah Palin. They are flummoxed. Meanwhile, McCain has passed Obama in the polls. Keep it up, John!

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

The McCain camp doesn't care if the left likes Palin or not. Every time they attack her, it just solidifies her right wing support.

However, she does provide SOME appeal to the middle working class which is always nice. But MOST importantly she lets McCain go around and be a Centrist on issues, to attract the independent vote, which is VERY important. And Obama will be hard pressed to attract the middle vote given his rather, well, socialist agenda.

Plus, given that 40% of the population dont even PAY federal taxes (they get it all back in their refund). Obama's plan is nothing more than a glorified handout to the lower classes, since it will be the GOVERNMENT writing them a check in the end (as in they receive more than they paid).

[Satty]

I'm just waiting to see what other dirty tricks McCain pulls out. There are going to be thousands of voters who request an absentee ballot using the form his campaign mailed out, but wont get one because of a little box that can be overlooked. Thats flat out disenfranchisement, as bad as anything pro-Bushies did in Ohio in '04 and Florida in '00. We need to get the Karl Roves out of politics so we can have an honest election where people vote based on the issues. The cheap tricks suck, McCain knows that better than anyone. Seriously the days of "Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain...if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?" need to end. It would behoove McCain to abandon these practices, it will make him seem less petty.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Well unfortunately Obama has started up his war machine.

I wonder if the Republicans can cast him as wailing on a poor old man?

and Mr Satty, McCain was trying to push for a lot of townhouse style meetings between Obama and McCain, that would have easially placed policies on the forefront, but Obama turned it down. Obama also went back on his word to use the campaign fund, which he is now, ironically struggling to meet money demands.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Satty]

Obama set a monthly donation record in August, the numbers haven't been officially released yet. And who the hell wants to watch 10 debates? I do think they should have done at least one more, but no more than 5 debates for the presidential nominees, stick with one for the vps, because they dont really matter.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Obama set a monthly donation record in August, the numbers haven't been officially released yet. And who the hell wants to watch 10 debates? I do think they should have done at least one more, but no more than 5 debates for the presidential nominees, stick with one for the vps, because they dont really matter.

because you just said you wanted them to focus on the issues, not the constant war machine slander.

Damn hippocrit.

[Satty]

10 debates is way too much, people will tune out. The slander war would at least keep the election on the periphery of voters minds, endless debates would make them tune out entirely. Same reason football is more popular than baseball, baseball has 162 games, and takes around 8 months (from Spring Training through the World Series) while football teams play 16 games and the full season takes a couple months less.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well unfortunately Obama has started up his war machine.

I wonder if the Republicans can cast him as wailing on a poor old man?

and Mr Satty, McCain was trying to push for a lot of townhouse style meetings between Obama and McCain, that would have easially placed policies on the forefront, but Obama turned it down. Obama also went back on his word to use the campaign fund, which he is now, ironically struggling to meet money demands.

I follow politics constantly and I wouldn't even want to see 10 debates.

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh how I wish we could embed YouTube vids into the thread.

[gm4life]

Mr Satty, McCain was trying to push for a lot of townhouse style meetings between Obama and McCain, that would have easially placed policies on the forefront, but Obama turned it down. Obama also went back on his word to use the campaign fund, which he is now, ironically struggling to meet money demands.

What this person said is so true. McCain asked Mr. Obama to fly around with him to different towns, field questions and talk about issues and Senator Obama still said no. This would have taken like Ricer Civic said put issues front and center and helped people figure out exactly what both people stand for. I thought it was a wonderful idea but Obama said no. He is a great speech giver, nice enough guy but rubs me wrong I find him to be "fishy" but when he has does not have screen telling him what to say he stumbles, alot. I find it interesting right there is shows a weakness in Obama, and the debates promise to be wonderful.

Edited September 13, 2008 by gm4life

[Drew Dowdell]

He did ok on Letterman.

Oh yeah, and the better candid speakers always get elected President....

[loki]

Oh how I wish we could embed YouTube vids into the thread.

that blond is good looking. lol

[Satty]

G-Dubs belongs in that thread where everyone is complaining about people not speaking English.

Strategery

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."

"Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."

I know why people voted for them, because he reminds them of themselves.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

G-Dubs belongs in that thread where everyone is complaining about people not speaking English.

Strategery

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."

"Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."

I know why people voted for them, because he reminds them of themselves.

Now, i realize your trying to understanderize what im sayin, but... uh... you gotta learn to be... uh... more... like... Allright a gameboy! heh heh.

[Robert Hall]

Now, i realize your trying to understanderize what im sayin, but... uh... you gotta learn to be... uh... more... like... Allright a gameboy! heh heh.

At a previous job, I used 'strategery' in a meeting once...I said something to the effect that 'we need to forge our forward strategery to leverage the syergies that emerge through utilization of the core competencies of the resources on the team'. I had everyone howling in the room....

[balthazar]

O'Reilly : "Is Iran part of that component?"

Junior senator from Illinois: "Iran is a major threat, now, I don't think that

there's a...uh... the same... uh...uh... th-they are not part of the same

network. Eeeh, you've got Shiite and you've got Sunni. We've gotta

have... uh... the ability to distinguish between these groups, because for

example, uh... the war... uh, uh... the war on Iraq is a good example..."

{God- exhausting transcribing work!}

Such a confidence-inspiring mush-mouth! No doubt he'd have Achmadenijad quaking in his human skin boots under a baragge of stammering 'Uhhhs' and stuttering 'ehhhs' & over-lapping emptiness & circular nonsense.

[Drew Dowdell]

O'Reilly : "Is Iran part of that component?"

Junior senator from Illinois: "Iran is a major threat, now, I don't think that

there's a...uh... the same... uh...uh... th-they are not part of the same

network. Eeeh, you've got Shiite and you've got Sunni. We've gotta

have... uh... the ability to distinguish between these groups, because for

example, uh... the war... uh, uh... the war on Iraq is a good example..."

{God- exhausting transcribing work!}

Such a confidence-inspiring mush-mouth! No doubt he'd have Achmadenijad quaking in his human skin boots under a baragge of stammering 'Uhhhs' and stuttering 'ehhhs' & over-lapping emptiness & circular nonsense.

I'm sure you got all misty eyed over Bush right?

[gm4life]

But Bush wasn't put into office to fight terroist the first time. But the second time he was and because he proved that he would fight them.

[balthazar]

Letterman: "Let me ask you this; have you ever actually put lipstick on a pig?"

BO : "You know... the uh... that... the answer would be 'no'. But I think it... uh... it might be fun to try."

Letterman: "...I know the reaction to that was 'You were overreacting'; do you stand by that?"

BO : "Absolutely! Yeah, look, th-th-this is... uh... if you uh... I, uh/eh... this is sort of silly season in politics... not that there's a non-silly season in politics, but it... it gets silliER... and, uh... it's a common expression in at least... uh... Illinios..."

>>"I'm sure you got all misty eyed over Bush right? "<<

Nope- didn't even vote for the guy.

[Croc]

Did something similar except a major is held to a higher standard, and has budget and other things to deal with. Oh and she is a governor.

Uh huh. So a community organizer starts with nothing and is an activist to CREATE an institution to address an issue, yet a mayor (note the spelling) already has an institution at her disposal. Also, mayors don't do the budget; that's for city council. All a mayor does is approve or veto it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I hardly consider that a common phrase. Every time Obama's media boyz and girlz take a swing at her its more votes for McCain I hope they know that.

[balthazar]

>>"Uh huh. So a community organizer starts with nothing and is an activist to CREATE an institution to address an issue..."<<

Please link to some records or accounts of specifically what Barry did as a community organizer. As far as I've heard, this information --much like his Harvard records and his medical report-- are sealed, and the country would seriously like to know how being a community organizer has any bearing whatsoever with helping to be prepared to be a president.

I also find it hard to believe that every c.o. starts a ground-up organization- so every one is then a 1-man operation, right? No one ever joins a pre-existing institution?? Prolly not going to get much at all accomplished as a 1-man organization. What was the name of Barry's, BTW?

[gm4life]

Uh huh. So a community organizer starts with nothing and is an activist to CREATE an institution to address an issue, yet a mayor (note the spelling) already has an institution at her disposal. Also, mayors don't do the budget; that's for city council. All a mayor does is approve or veto it.

I have said it once I will say it again. I can't spell when I am typing and no I never re-read my posts. Not when they are short at least.

Edited September 14, 2008 by gm4life

[gm4life]

Yeah the only problem is that this is before Sarah Palin had coined the pharse in a joke. This was way before that proof Obama was using it as a slam. Yes he really trys to stick to the issues. HORSE &#036;h&#33;. Oh yeah McCain asked for Town-Hall meetings Obama said - NO. Some canidate you have there.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah the only problem is that this is before Sarah Palin had coined the pharse in a joke. This was way before that proof Obama was using it as a slam. Yes he really trys to stick to the issues. HORSE &#036;h&#33;. Oh yeah McCain asked for Town-Hall meetings Obama said - NO. Some canidate you have there.

If you really want to take it that way, Palin is the lipstick, McCain is the pig.

Useage of the phrase "Lipstick on a pig" on just this website alone:

Here

Here

Here

Here

Referenced here

Referenced here

Here

Here

Here

Here

Here

There are 3 pages worth of results.... in case you're curious.