Cadillac 4cyl sedan in '10

[Robert Hall]

Could this be the rumoured Alpha? Hard to believe GM would commit to a small RWD model...

Autoweek Article

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

"There is a piece of the team who is thinking, 'Well, with this whole fuel economy and gas thing, we ought to go all the way, say, to fours.' We are resisting that at this stage."

See,

That's logical thinking... IF YOU'RE RUNNING SATURN OR CHEVROLET! Cadillac buyers (or those that Cadillac seeks) probably aren't that worried about fuel prices.

This worries me, because it tells me that GM has given up on making Cadillac the division that it should be.

And what is the point of GM offering a 4 cylinder only Cadillac, even if it is turbocharged?!?! Isn't that Saab territory? Is GM seriously going to make Cadillac and (the much better 'environmentally' positioned Saab) battle it out for top luxury division?

Remember what I told you about Saab eventually becoming THE luxury division at GM? TICK-TOCK!

And BTW, I have a very hard time believing that this is Alpha, so it looks like EPSILON II has breached Cadillac as well.

More corporate

EDIT: Looks like the people posting there hate the idea too.

Edited August 25, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Drew Dowdell]

See,

That's logical thinking... IF YOU'RE RUNNING SATURN OR CHEVROLET! Cadillac buyers (or those that Cadillac seeks) probably aren't that worried about fuel prices.

This worries me, because it tells me that GM has given up on making Cadillac the division that it should be.

And what is the point of GM offering a 4 cylinder only Cadillac, even if it is turbocharged?!?! Isn't that Saab territory? Is GM seriously going to make Cadillac and (the much better 'environmentally' positioned Saab) battle it out for top luxury division?

Incorrect. I am a Cadillac buyer and I'm still concerned about fuel economy. I've posted many many times that I wish GM would make a premium 4-cylinder. No, Saab doesn't cut it.

[Robert Hall]

Incorrect. I am a Cadillac buyer and I'm still concerned about fuel economy. I've posted many many times that I wish GM would make a premium 4-cylinder. No, Saab doesn't cut it.

I can see a market for a modern, 4 cyl Caddy..Audi has such models, and Merc, BMW, Lexus have them, at least outside of the US...

[siegen]

As long as it's RWD I think they will be ok. Saab is FWD is it not?

[Sixty8panther]

Geez, GM is stuck in the past, it's not 1905 anymore!

(the year Cadillac introduced the 1st mass-produced 4-cylinder engine!)

As long as it's RWD I think they will be ok.

I think if it is done right, it COULD work, but I'd rather see

this product under the Chevy & Pontiac banner.

I'm not sure what is MORE sacriligious, a "DTS" w/ a sideways

V8 and FWd or a RWD 4-cylinder, if it was three years ago I'd

prob. say the 4-cylinder-RWD, but it's a bit more fuzzy today.

[VenSeattle]

I think this is talking about Alpha. It makes sense. Alpha needs to offer both 4-cyl & V6s though.

[FAPTurbo]

Audi offers premium 4-cylinders, so it'd be great to see Cadillac try and match them at their game. As long as GM offers a choice, then I am all for this.

[gm4life]

Actually I like the idea of smaller less expensive Caddy but more to compete with the TSX not the RWD 1 Series and so forth. I would rather send Buick the car anyways.

[gm4life]

Or better yet Pontiac as a G6 replacement? I know I said I wanted FWD but if it gets good fuel economy who cares at this point? Does this mean Cadillac isn't the only division getting it? If so it would work great as a Pontiac. They still can do a EP II G6 but slot this in as the G5 or whatever you want to call it. I would not give this to Chevrolet. Leave them for FWD volume things, although I could make a case for Buick maybe better than for Cadillac. I have mixed feelings.

[gm4life]

Or better yet Pontiac as a G6 replacement? I know I said I wanted FWD but if it gets good fuel economy who cares at this point? Does this mean Cadillac isn't the only division getting it? If so it would work great as a Pontiac. They still can do a EP II G6 but slot this in as the G5 or whatever you want to call it. I would not give this to Chevrolet. Leave them for FWD volume things, although I could make a case for Buick maybe better than for Cadillac. I have mixed feelings.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Incorrect. I am a Cadillac buyer and I'm still concerned about fuel economy. I've posted many many times that I wish GM would make a premium 4-cylinder. No, Saab doesn't cut it.

I'm fine with a Cadillac 4 cylinder, so long as it's actually premium and not corporate crap. But the option of a V6 should be there for those who want it. And there will be buyers that want it, as the AutoWeek (or whatever rag it was) board suggests.

I just don't want overlapping Saabs and Cadillacs.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

As long as it's RWD I think they will be ok. Saab is FWD is it not?

For now...

Rumor was that Saab wanted Kappa when it rolled out. So why wouldn't they want a slot on Alpha? Not to mention, given where Alpha is supposedly being developed and the desire by GM (for some unknown reason) to continue to try and develop the black hole known as Saab, it would be a no brainer.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I think this is talking about Alpha. It makes sense. Alpha needs to offer both 4-cyl & V6s though.

It'd be awesome if Alpha is out by then, but everything I've heard says that Alpha will not be ready by then. In fact there is supposedly a freeze on Alpha now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Or better yet Pontiac as a G6 replacement? I know I said I wanted FWD but if it gets good fuel economy who cares at this point? Does this mean Cadillac isn't the only division getting it? If so it would work great as a Pontiac. They still can do a EP II G6 but slot this in as the G5 or whatever you want to call it. I would not give this to Chevrolet. Leave them for FWD volume things, although I could make a case for Buick maybe better than for Cadillac. I have mixed feelings.

I think that was originally the plan.

But now Pontiac is supposedly receiving nothing from Alpha.

My guess is this: Chevrolet wants the Alpha coupe and pretty much pushed Pontiac out of the way there to develop the F6 Camaro. That leaves the sedan which GM appears to be giving to Buick in the B/P/GMC channel. My guess is because they can get a higher transaction price for a Buick Alpha.

Alpha would be cool for Pontiac, but in reality an AWD Eps II or AWD Delta II could work just as well. So long as they leave Zeta and Kappa for the traditionalists.

[thegriffon]

Last I heard anything Alpha was not being developed in Europe. There will be a Cadillac, there will be a Buick for China. There will later be a Camaro (which is now too big anyway—the concept was a good deal smaller). Anything else is still up for grabs, but as long as he architecture is developed in the appropriate configurations additional models can be added much closer to introduction (12 months for a new model, 6 for a simple cosmetic adaptation of a Chinese Buick) and at much lower cost. Alpha is due 2011-2012. GM doesn't have to decide on a additional models on that time frame until 2010-2011, that's two years before a decision needs to be made on a Pontiac, and probably later depending on the desired introduction. The next G6 was scheduled to run until 2012 …

[smk4565]

4 cylinder turbo is fine for the base model, but they have to offer a V6 also. I hope it isn't the 2.0 turbo either, that engine will be 4 years old by then, and gets only marginally better mileage than the V6. They need 30 mpg highway out of the turbo 4, and the interior has to be better than the CTS. Assuming it will be 3-series size, people will compare it directly to the 3-series, and the next 3-series is out 1 year after this Cadillac. Unless Cadillac goes Cimarron 2 and prices it around $27k and gives it the corporate radio and HVAC and makes it a TSX/Jetta fighter.

[Chazman]

I think Alpha by 2010 is alittle early. Would be great if that were the case though. Caddy really needs it NOW and the 5th gen Camaro could not be more wrong for the times.

[balthazar]

smk4565 ->>"I hope it isn't the 2.0 turbo either, that engine will be 4 years old by then..."<<

WTH do you want; a brand new engine every 2 years ?!?!? a 4-yr old engine is 'old', too 'old' to be competitive?? Oh that's right- I've read numerous posts from you pointing out how the hoary nissan VQ V6 is 14 years old now.

>>"...the interior has to be better than the CTS..."<<

CTS is upmarket from this junior Cadillac, there's no logical reason to give it a better interior. Besides that, the CTS interior is already beyond both the 3- and 5-series interiors- again I scratch my head wondering what you want here- spun gold floor mats? Running water? How about anything other than a car with a Cadillac Crest on the grille.

[smk4565]

smk4565 ->>"I hope it isn't the 2.0 turbo either, that engine will be 4 years old by then..."<<

WTH do you want; a brand new engine every 2 years ?!?!? a 4-yr old engine is 'old', too 'old' to be competitive?? Oh that's right- I've read numerous posts from you pointing out how the hoary nissan VQ V6 is 14 years old now.

>>"...the interior has to be better than the CTS..."<<

CTS is upmarket from this junior Cadillac, there's no logical reason to give it a better interior. Besides that, the CTS interior is already beyond both the 3- and 5-series interiors- again I scratch my head wondering what you want here- spun gold floor mats? Running water? How about anything other than a car with a Cadillac Crest on the grille.

The materials in the CTS are not better than what is in the 5-series, the CTS also lacks night vision, power rear sun shade, 20 way seats, 14 speaker 7.1 stereo, radar cruise control and I don't remember if the CTS has a heated steering wheel. The 5-series and E-class have way more equipment than a CTS, which is why they are $50-70k sedans and the CTS is $35-50k, they are not competitors.

The interior of the new car has to be at least as good as the CTS, because the new 3-series will be out 1 year after the new Caddy, if they put a Saab level interior in there, the car will get killed. A 4 year old engine from a Saturn is not good enough to go against BMW, it is good enough to go against Volvo or Acura. Even the Lincoln MKZ will have 340 hp by then, a 260 hp engine that gets 19/27 mpg will lag from the competition.

[79VetteZ06]

^^^^^^

Needs some peaceful time in Tibet practising tranquility of Aum. There are some people who are hyper negative about something and there are some who are hyperbolically negative about something.

[balthazar]

interior of CTS-V

interior of 5-series touring

[Robert Hall]

^^^^^^

Needs some peaceful time in Tibet practising tranquility of Aum. There are some people who are hyper negative about something and there are some who are hyperbolically negative about something.

Peace and quiet...I plan to get plenty this holiday weekend...out on the pond, floating around in a little wooden boat, in the wooded foothills of Appalachia. Peace.