2010 Pontiac G6 MCE Spotted W/O Camo

[vonVeezelsnider]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g6-con...ble-future.html

Our spy photographers have already managed to snap images of the updated Pontiac G6 sedan, but today they were able to catch the new face of the G6 convertible — completely undisguised! Pontiac’s G6 has proven to be a strong seller for GM, so the refresh should ensure continued success for the next few years.

The freshening includes a new front fascia and air-intakes, as well as a slightly tweaked rear. The interior appears to be unchanged. Although this is already August, the car pictured is actually a 2010 facelift. Pontiac has already released information on the 2009 G6 and the changes don’t include any styling modifications. The biggest change for 2009 models arriving in showrooms soon will be the six-speed automatic/four cylinder combination already seen in the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu LTZ Spring Edition.

Discuss...

[Northstar]

Wow, that's tacky. Just kill Pontiac if this is what its future holds.

[ocnblu]

Not bad, imo. I was hoping for these changes for '09, but maybe '09 will be a short model year. Here's hoping some further powertrain changes are coming, as well as the styling improvements. How about a 4 cylinder coupe... 2.4L/manual trans base... 2.0L turbo/manual and auto optional?

[!!!TED!!!]

So, this is a 2010 model, and the 2009 isn't even out?

Meh, I prefer the dual lower openings.

as well as a slightly tweaked rear

Looks the same to me?

[Intrepidation]

Not an improvement, and they didn't even work on the crappy interior.

[ZL-1]

wow... new front bumper and that's it (as fas as noticeable changes go)?

[corvette_dude729]

GM really neads to start doing more for their refreshes. I mean, if we can barely tell the difference the general public certainly will not be able to.

[91z4me]

wow... new front bumper and that's it (as fas as noticeable changes go)?

Perhaps the sedan will get a rear end closer to the coupe/convertible. That is the really stale model.

[loki]

it is a dual exhaust .... the pic of the GT vert on pontiac.com is single exhaust.... but it's also an 08 model pic.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Perhaps the sedan will get a rear end closer to the coupe/convertible. That is the really stale model.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g6-sedan-future.html

Don't count on it.

I see they didn't do anything about the headlights, which if they made more ALA G8 would really jazz up the front end... and not even a Blacktie Stereo inside (WTF!)

[Brougham-Holiday]

Well atleast our 2007 won't look old yet lol! This is among the most pathetic news out of GM in a long time, this isn't even a MCE its just a new bumper. Wheres the updated interior , etc?

[Sixty8panther]

wow.... this looks even MORE like the last gen. Camry & Solara.

How sad, six years ago we had the Grand Am which had excellent

brand recognition, good return buyers & a very unique look, it

was not stellar, and the pre-Lutz SE "ribs" were tacky but no more

so than the Mitsu Erclipse that the press just looooved despite its

ugly rear end & "Chinese Audi TT" profile & nose...

The Grand Am was a PONTAC, sure it was still FWD and my biggest

gripe was the GT & manual trans. being mutually EXCLUSIVE!?

But it was a god selling car that had a BIG following...

so of course GM has to F*** up a good thing as usual.

I bet there was a million people (potential customers)

in '04 who walked out of a Pontiac showroom & over to

{insert non-GM manufacturer here} scratching their

heads saying "no more Grand Am...?"

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

+1

Part of me says: "Well, the coupe and convertible still look good and this just adds a little more aggression to the designs. Which is a good thing"

Part of me says: "Wow... That's the best they could do? It looks and acts more and more like a Solara everyday."

[ZL-1]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g6-sedan-future.html

Don't count on it.

I see they didn't do anything about the headlights, which if they made more ALA G8 would really jazz up the front end... and not even a Blacktie Stereo inside (WTF!)

Oh boy...... does near-zero investment in upgrading this thing mean that 'Find Excitement @ Avis' will be Pontiac's new slogan going forward?

[Robert Hall]

Oh boy...... does near-zero investment in upgrading this thing mean that 'Find Excitement @ Avis' will be Pontiac's new slogan going forward?

The G6 must be taking the Grand Prix's place as rental queen. I suppose the budget for Pontiac updates is 1/100th that of Chevy or Saturn, so this reflects that...

Edited August 18, 2008 by moltar

[ZL-1]

The G6 must be taking the Grand Prix's place as rental queen.

Could be. That way the Malibu doesn't need to be fleeted as heavily and GM still keeps fleet business.

[VenSeattle]

Not an improvement, and they didn't even work on the crappy interior.

Agreed... I thought the exterior of the coupe/convertible looked fine... It's the interior that needed help.

The only issue I wish they would have addressed on the convertible was to extend the chrome trim all the way around the passenger compartment when the top was retracted. They didn't...

[The O.C.]

Not an improvement, and they didn't even work on the crappy interior.

This may have just been an '08 with the '10 front end put on there......he may have been testing the new front-end for airflow and that sort of stuff......

[Drew Dowdell]

X

[hyperv6]

Yawn!

I do think the two tone interior is long over do for Pontiac but the wood grain needs to be axed.

I am begining to believe that Pontiac is just on life support till GM Files and kills the line. For a division in critical condition the moves are too slow and too litte.

Once GM files they can axe Pontiac and cust the losses vs doing it now. THe question is will buick and GMC follow or will they still save Buick and team it with Saturn/Opel.

Spent a lot of time in a Malibu this week end and for the money and the quality of the cae the G6 ain't no Malibu. When you can load up a 2LT with a V6 and 18 inch wheels along with the other goodies the G6 sedam pales.

[Lamar]

This may have just been an '08 with the '10 front end put on there......he may have been testing the new front-end for airflow and that sort of stuff......

Wouldn't explain the rear changes though...

[gm4life]

I like it better. But don't they plan on giving us a new G6 in the next few years. It is a strong seller even if you take away fleet sales.

[97regalGS]

Yawn!

I do think the two tone interior is long over do for Pontiac but the wood grain needs to be axed.

I am begining to believe that Pontiac is just on life support till GM Files and kills the line. For a division in critical condition the moves are too slow and too litte.

Once GM files they can axe Pontiac and cust the losses vs doing it now. THe question is will buick and GMC follow or will they still save Buick and team it with Saturn/Opel.

Spent a lot of time in a Malibu this week end and for the money and the quality of the cae the G6 ain't no Malibu. When you can load up a 2LT with a V6 and 18 inch wheels along with the other goodies the G6 sedam pales.

sadly, pontiac has nothing to offer than couldn't easily be moved to another brand. pathetic really when you think of it.

[Cremazie]

I don't want to lose the Pontiac name, I couldn't care less if they have one model, as long as it was an amazing car.

Oh yeah, that front end is fugly!

Edited August 19, 2008 by Cremazie

[frogger]

WTF, 6 years in and this is all they did to it? I have to believe it will get a new center console and they just haven't put it on this particular pre-pro version

The front fascia/grill looks like something that belongs on a $16K economy car.

[C.H.U.D.]

So, the old Pontiac Vibe fascia returns as the G6 facelift, just after the G6 fascia shows up on the G8. Hooray!

I am really disappointed that the lack of interior modifications. Could it be any more apparent that they're starving Pontiac to death?

[balthazar]

>>"sadly, pontiac has nothing to offer than couldn't easily be moved to another brand. pathetic really when you think of it."<<

Sadly, pontiac has much more to offer than merely things that could easily be moved to another brand. Pathetic, really, when you think of it.

[CSpec]

Lame. The G6 was always sub-par, and it looks like GM will do the classic GM thing and just keep making it. They didn't even put in a black tie radio.

[97regalGS]

>>"sadly, pontiac has nothing to offer than couldn't easily be moved to another brand. pathetic really when you think of it."<<

Sadly, pontiac has much more to offer than merely things that could easily be moved to another brand. Pathetic, really, when you think of it.

like what?

I don't disagree that Pontiac COULD be relevant with the right line-up, but there is no evidence that GM has the balls or the cash to do that, and the current products are nothing more than warmed over re-hashes of ofther cars in GM's stable.

G5 - Cobalt

G6 - Aura/Malibu

G8 - could be moved to Chevy if needed(prob won't sell enough to justify)

G8 ST - would sell in greater numbers if it was an El Camino

Torrent - make it a Buick or GMC

Montana - gone

Solstice - if they get the platform right move it to Cadillac, otherwise move to Chevy

Vibe - it's a Toyota and apparently you guys would love to see it disappear anyway

[Blake Noble]

FAIL.

[gm4life]

For some reason I think we are getting a new interior and this car just has the front tacked on.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

like what?

I don't disagree that Pontiac COULD be relevant with the right line-up, but there is no evidence that GM has the balls or the cash to do that, and the current products are nothing more than warmed over re-hashes of ofther cars in GM's stable.

Vehicles that Pontiac offers which other GM divisions do not:

Vibe: A fresh, small alternative to SUVs that, because of it's ties to Toyota, attracts people who wouldn't normally buy GM. The problem; horrible marketing.

G6 Coupe: No other GM division offers a mid size coupe. The problem: the product is outdated and needs proper marketing and factory support.

G6 Convertible: No other GM division offers a retractable hardtop in this class. In fact not many other manufacturers do. The problem: the product is outdated, needs more factory support and better marketing.

G8: No other GM division offers an affordable RWD sedan. No other GM division offers an affordable large sedan that isn't completely outclassed. Not many other manufacturers offer affordable RWD sedans, especially RWD large sedans with comparable fuel economy to FWD large sedans. The problem: Horrible marketing and product mix.

G8 ST: No other company or division offers anything like it... The problem: Poor marketing (Already... the fact that it was named ST, and has been thus far IGNORED is not a good sign) and horrible product mix.

Solstice Targa: No other GM division offers an affordable small RWD coupe. In fact, not many manufacturers do. the problem; the product still has weak points and the marketing will no doubt suck.

Pontiac has the MOST unique line up of vehicles of ANY GM division. And some could argue that it has the most unique vehicles in the market right now. If SMART business people ran GM, they would be diligently working to EXPLOIT this and to reverse the "bad image" of Pontiac in consumers minds. However, th people that ruin (oops, run... typo ) GM would rather 'play it safe' and continue to lose market share and money by utilizing old fashioned, blue collar, naive Detroit business sense.

If indeed Pontiac is on the chopping block, what do they have to lose? the division has a great portfolio of cars that are underutilized and will soon evaporate (If what we hear is correct)

G5 - Cobalt

Delta II could easily fix this. And it's so easy to do... The market CAME to GM on this one and Delta II is so close to launch that it isn't funny. So why not Get as many sales as possible by making a Pontiac version that will actually penetrate the market instead of suck off excess Cobalt sales? If GM rebadges the Cruze as the G5 again, then the whole board and executive force should be fired. This scenario is so easy that a 5 year old could figure it out. the market is right, the product is timed right, the divisions are strong in equity... It would seriously take a mentally handicapped person to eff this up.

G6 - Aura/Malibu

Both have 1/3 of the line of the G6

G8 - could be moved to Chevy if needed(prob won't sell enough to justify)

Or GM could exploit the death of Zeta and free up their entire RWD market for the G8 and expand the line... The G8 has NO competition within GM now and it already has 2 out of 3 of the bodystyles. Ford and Chrysler are both moving forward with plans for large RWD. Shouldn't GM use their already better car to expand into the segment? GM could adjust the mix to mirror the Camaro, pump up the marketing a bit and have a big hit in the G8. Sure, the market isn't going to grow much, but neither is the truck market and GM still wants to keep their stronghold there, so they're investing.

It's kind of ironic in that, through the death of all the other Zetas (not counting Camaro, which will sell anyway) Pontiac could potentially benefit BIG TIME because it has no corporate competition. the niche is wide open and the answer already sits in Pontiac's showroom. No development, no lead time, no . Just expand the line and recalibrate the mix. GM has plenty of capacity here in the states to sell more of them and they could sell more of them IF THEY'D TRY. But corporate politics won't allow it.

G8 ST - would sell in greater numbers if it was an El Camino

Yeah right... With the 'redneck' image that the El Camino has. GM is better off to start completely fresh and market the truck to young people who need to haul bikes, home improvement supplies and the like. But I'm willing to bet that the G8 ST will get about as much promotion as a fat lady at a strip club.

Torrent - make it a Buick or GMC

Or, you could utilize Theta to make it a true sporty SUV. I don't mean to be anti-GMC here, but if the Acadia deserves to die because Chevrolet has the Traverse, then why does GMC need a Theta if Chevrolet has the Equinox? Isn't the same thing going to happen? See, this is a prime example of why GM DOES NOT have too many divisions, it just DOESN'T UTILIZE THEM CORRECTLY

If you have 3 thetas coming to the US, why make them all the same? Why not make the Saturn either the euro flavored (maybe smaller or greener) alternative, make the Chevy the volume leader and then make the Pontiac the sporty alternative?

Instead of that logic, we get a fat assed Vue that is supposed to LEAD GM's plug in "green" movement, a fat assed Equinox that looks just like the Vue and probably a fat assed GMC version that will mirror the Equinox way too much.

Solstice - if they get the platform right move it to Cadillac, otherwise move to Chevy

So, move the Solstice to Cadillac where it's target demographic can't afford it? Or move it there with the same price and destroy what little prestige Cadillac has built? And why does Chevrolet need it again? the already have Corvette and Camaro convertibles. And what about the Sky? If the Traverse destroys Outlook sales, what exactly do you think a Chevy Solstice will do to Sky sales?

Vibe - it's a Toyota and apparently you guys would love to see it disappear anyway

Not me... I'm a HUGE proponent of the Vibe. It attracts would be import customers (A few years ago it had one of the highest conquest rates of any GM -- Until GM let it get stale and cut the line up to sh*t)

If anything, the Vibe needs to be expanded and exploited. we need more versions of it and more marketing for it.

Edited August 19, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Sixty8panther]

Sadly, pontiac has much more to offer than merely things that could easily be moved to another brand. Pathetic, really, when you think of it.

like what?

A proud history to draw upon... what else do

you think Balthy was talking about?

You can start by checkin' out his sig:

[Drew Dowdell]

In response to F-O-G:

Pontiac should consist of:

Vibe - same as now

Solstice, Solstice Coupe - Alpha SWB

Tempest Sedan/Coup/Hatch - Alpha SWB - G5 replacement

Grand Am sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon - Alpha LWB - G6 replacement

G8 gets shipped over to Chevy to be sold as the Impala, produced on same line as Camaro. Sold in sedan, truck, and wagon configurations.

Buick should consist of:

Skylark - EPII SWB, definately quiet tuned and built for comfort over speed.

Invicta - EPII LWB, basically the coming LaCrosse

Park Ave - Zeta

Enclave - keep the current one, why mess with success

GMC would consist of:

Everything now except Acadia

That should fill out the Pontiac/Buick/GMC showrooms with very little overlap.

Saturn:

Just lift the best sellers from the Opel lineup and sell them here.

Drop the SKY and Outlook

Cadillac:

CLR - Alpha SWB coupe and roadster, think SKY that has been reworked appropriately for Cadillac.

BTS - Alpha SWB sedan

CTS - same as now, add hard top convertible

STS - SWB Zeta

DTS - LWB Zeta

SRX - coming one will sell even if it's not our tastes

Escalade - just keep it, add diesels

Saab:

Set a low reserve and "Buy it Now" price on Ebay.

[gm4life]

Pontiac is so a brand with some much promise it isn't even funny. I have a feeling this new MCE is more than just a face-lift. I have a feeling we will be seeing a new one in a few years like less than 2. The G8 is a great product, add a wagon the G5 if it actually was restyled right to not look like a Cruze or Cobalt. A Torrent that is a sporty small CUV makes sense and Pontiac can sell it. Who says Pontiac needs all cars. As for the Solstice keep it and kill the Sky. Vibe keep this one but a GM Ecotec wouldn't hurt. Then bring a G3 and with the price of gas it would sell.

[Intrepidation]

In response to F-O-G:

Pontiac should consist of:

Vibe - same as now

Solstice, Solstice Coupe - Alpha SWB

Tempest Sedan/Coup/Hatch - Alpha SWB - G5 replacement

Grand Am sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon - Alpha LWB - G6 replacement

G8 gets shipped over to Chevy to be sold as the Impala, produced on same line as Camaro. Sold in sedan, truck, and wagon configurations.

Buick should consist of:

Skylark - EPII SWB, definately quiet tuned and built for comfort over speed.

Invicta - EPII LWB, basically the coming LaCrosse

Park Ave - Zeta

Enclave - keep the current one, why mess with success

GMC would consist of:

Everything now except Acadia

That should fill out the Pontiac/Buick/GMC showrooms with very little overlap.

Saturn:

Just lift the best sellers from the Opel lineup and sell them here.

Drop the SKY and Outlook

Cadillac:

CLR - Alpha SWB coupe and roadster, think SKY that has been reworked appropriately for Cadillac.

BTS - Alpha SWB sedan

CTS - same as now, add hard top convertible

STS - SWB Zeta

DTS - LWB Zeta

SRX - coming one will sell even if it's not our tastes

Escalade - just keep it, add diesels

Saab:

Set a low reserve and "Buy it Now" price on Ebay.

Can't argue with that lineup.

[gm4life]

I can Pontiac deserves the G8. Other than that it is a good idea.

[97regalGS]

A proud history to draw upon... what else do

you think Balthy was talking about?

You can start by checkin' out his sig:

i don't load people's sigs. too much crap to sift thru when reading comments.

history? are you kidding me. anyone with any sense of pontiac's history is already buying german or asian cars. the younger market that presumably pontiac should target has no clue of pontiacs history.

the problem with most of you guys and your fantasy line-ups is that they are just that f-- antasies. you guys live in the past with no sense of reality with what is more likely to happen than not. i'd love for pontiac to have become a niche, RWD only lineup of no compromise sporty cars. but the fact remains they are not that today and there is no indication that they intend to do that. the pontiac image in the buying public is crap and sales are declining. so tell me, exactly what cars do they offer than couldn't be re-badged as something else?

[97regalGS]

A proud history to draw upon... what else do

you think Balthy was talking about?

You can start by checkin' out his sig:

i don't load people's sigs. too much crap to sift thru when reading comments. (meaning my settings don't display people's sigs)

history? are you kidding me. anyone with any sense of pontiac's history is already buying german or asian cars. the younger market that presumably pontiac should target has no clue of pontiacs history.

the problem with most of you guys and your fantasy line-ups is that they are just that f-- antasies. you guys live in the past with no sense of reality with what is more likely to happen than not. i'd love for pontiac to have become a niche, RWD only lineup of no compromise sporty cars. but the fact remains they are not that today and there is no indication that they intend to do that. the pontiac image in the buying public is crap and sales are declining. so tell me, exactly what cars do they offer than couldn't be re-badged as something else?

Edited August 20, 2008 by 97regalGS

[97regalGS]

Vehicles that Pontiac offers which other GM divisions do not:

Vibe: A fresh, small alternative to SUVs that, because of it's ties to Toyota, attracts people who wouldn't normally buy GM. The problem; horrible marketing.

G6 Coupe: No other GM division offers a mid size coupe. The problem: the product is outdated and needs proper marketing and factory support.

G6 Convertible: No other GM division offers a retractable hardtop in this class. In fact not many other manufacturers do. The problem: the product is outdated, needs more factory support and better marketing.

G8: No other GM division offers an affordable RWD sedan. No other GM division offers an affordable large sedan that isn't completely outclassed. Not many other manufacturers offer affordable RWD sedans, especially RWD large sedans with comparable fuel economy to FWD large sedans. The problem: Horrible marketing and product mix.

G8 ST: No other company or division offers anything like it... The problem: Poor marketing (Already... the fact that it was named ST, and has been thus far IGNORED is not a good sign) and horrible product mix.

Solstice Targa: No other GM division offers an affordable small RWD coupe. In fact, not many manufacturers do. the problem; the product still has weak points and the marketing will no doubt suck.

Pontiac has the MOST unique line up of vehicles of ANY GM division. And some could argue that it has the most unique vehicles in the market right now. If SMART business people ran GM, they would be diligently working to EXPLOIT this and to reverse the "bad image" of Pontiac in consumers minds. However, th people that ruin (oops, run... typo ) GM would rather 'play it safe' and continue to lose market share and money by utilizing old fashioned, blue collar, naive Detroit business sense.

If indeed Pontiac is on the chopping block, what do they have to lose? the division has a great portfolio of cars that are underutilized and will soon evaporate (If what we hear is correct)

Delta II could easily fix this. And it's so easy to do... The market CAME to GM on this one and Delta II is so close to launch that it isn't funny. So why not Get as many sales as possible by making a Pontiac version that will actually penetrate the market instead of suck off excess Cobalt sales? If GM rebadges the Cruze as the G5 again, then the whole board and executive force should be fired. This scenario is so easy that a 5 year old could figure it out. the market is right, the product is timed right, the divisions are strong in equity... It would seriously take a mentally handicapped person to eff this up.

Both have 1/3 of the line of the G6

Or GM could exploit the death of Zeta and free up their entire RWD market for the G8 and expand the line... The G8 has NO competition within GM now and it already has 2 out of 3 of the bodystyles. Ford and Chrysler are both moving forward with plans for large RWD. Shouldn't GM use their already better car to expand into the segment? GM could adjust the mix to mirror the Camaro, pump up the marketing a bit and have a big hit in the G8. Sure, the market isn't going to grow much, but neither is the truck market and GM still wants to keep their stronghold there, so they're investing.

It's kind of ironic in that, through the death of all the other Zetas (not counting Camaro, which will sell anyway) Pontiac could potentially benefit BIG TIME because it has no corporate competition. the niche is wide open and the answer already sits in Pontiac's showroom. No development, no lead time, no . Just expand the line and recalibrate the mix. GM has plenty of capacity here in the states to sell more of them and they could sell more of them IF THEY'D TRY. But corporate politics won't allow it.

Yeah right... With the 'redneck' image that the El Camino has. GM is better off to start completely fresh and market the truck to young people who need to haul bikes, home improvement supplies and the like. But I'm willing to bet that the G8 ST will get about as much promotion as a fat lady at a strip club.

Or, you could utilize Theta to make it a true sporty SUV. I don't mean to be anti-GMC here, but if the Acadia deserves to die because Chevrolet has the Traverse, then why does GMC need a Theta if Chevrolet has the Equinox? Isn't the same thing going to happen? See, this is a prime example of why GM DOES NOT have too many divisions, it just DOESN'T UTILIZE THEM CORRECTLY

If you have 3 thetas coming to the US, why make them all the same? Why not make the Saturn either the euro flavored (maybe smaller or greener) alternative, make the Chevy the volume leader and then make the Pontiac the sporty alternative?

Instead of that logic, we get a fat assed Vue that is supposed to LEAD GM's plug in "green" movement, a fat assed Equinox that looks just like the Vue and probably a fat assed GMC version that will mirror the Equinox way too much.

So, move the Solstice to Cadillac where it's target demographic can't afford it? Or move it there with the same price and destroy what little prestige Cadillac has built? And why does Chevrolet need it again? the already have Corvette and Camaro convertibles. And what about the Sky? If the Traverse destroys Outlook sales, what exactly do you think a Chevy Solstice will do to Sky sales?

Not me... I'm a HUGE proponent of the Vibe. It attracts would be import customers (A few years ago it had one of the highest conquest rates of any GM -- Until GM let it get stale and cut the line up to sh*t)

If anything, the Vibe needs to be expanded and exploited. we need more versions of it and more marketing for it.

vibe is a toyota. nuff said

G6 coupe is god awful ugly and sells in low volumes. someone tell me if GM is even planning another coupe or not. regardless, could go to Aura

G6 convertible - GM probably lost a ton developing that roof. and again, sells in less volume than the coupe. if a solid case for convertible exists, why not make it a luxury convertible for buick instead of a cheap pos like it is now.

G8 - i drove one the other day. good ride and decent value, but wrong car for today's market. oil prices killing it. and it could be moved to chevy quite easily

G8 ST - would sell more if it was a chevy el camino

again, i agree that pontiac has potential, but there are no indications that GM sees that and is prepared to do what needs to be done. and given that every other brand is starving for attention, something has got to give. GM, as it stands today, can NOT support 8 brands in NA, or globally for that matter.

Edited August 20, 2008 by 97regalGS

[97regalGS]

Vehicles that Pontiac offers which other GM divisions do not:

Vibe: A fresh, small alternative to SUVs that, because of it's ties to Toyota, attracts people who wouldn't normally buy GM. The problem; horrible marketing.

G6 Coupe: No other GM division offers a mid size coupe. The problem: the product is outdated and needs proper marketing and factory support.

G6 Convertible: No other GM division offers a retractable hardtop in this class. In fact not many other manufacturers do. The problem: the product is outdated, needs more factory support and better marketing.

G8: No other GM division offers an affordable RWD sedan. No other GM division offers an affordable large sedan that isn't completely outclassed. Not many other manufacturers offer affordable RWD sedans, especially RWD large sedans with comparable fuel economy to FWD large sedans. The problem: Horrible marketing and product mix.

G8 ST: No other company or division offers anything like it... The problem: Poor marketing (Already... the fact that it was named ST, and has been thus far IGNORED is not a good sign) and horrible product mix.

Solstice Targa: No other GM division offers an affordable small RWD coupe. In fact, not many manufacturers do. the problem; the product still has weak points and the marketing will no doubt suck.

Pontiac has the MOST unique line up of vehicles of ANY GM division. And some could argue that it has the most unique vehicles in the market right now. If SMART business people ran GM, they would be diligently working to EXPLOIT this and to reverse the "bad image" of Pontiac in consumers minds. However, th people that ruin (oops, run... typo ) GM would rather 'play it safe' and continue to lose market share and money by utilizing old fashioned, blue collar, naive Detroit business sense.

If indeed Pontiac is on the chopping block, what do they have to lose? the division has a great portfolio of cars that are underutilized and will soon evaporate (If what we hear is correct)

Delta II could easily fix this. And it's so easy to do... The market CAME to GM on this one and Delta II is so close to launch that it isn't funny. So why not Get as many sales as possible by making a Pontiac version that will actually penetrate the market instead of suck off excess Cobalt sales? If GM rebadges the Cruze as the G5 again, then the whole board and executive force should be fired. This scenario is so easy that a 5 year old could figure it out. the market is right, the product is timed right, the divisions are strong in equity... It would seriously take a mentally handicapped person to eff this up.

Both have 1/3 of the line of the G6

Or GM could exploit the death of Zeta and free up their entire RWD market for the G8 and expand the line... The G8 has NO competition within GM now and it already has 2 out of 3 of the bodystyles. Ford and Chrysler are both moving forward with plans for large RWD. Shouldn't GM use their already better car to expand into the segment? GM could adjust the mix to mirror the Camaro, pump up the marketing a bit and have a big hit in the G8. Sure, the market isn't going to grow much, but neither is the truck market and GM still wants to keep their stronghold there, so they're investing.

It's kind of ironic in that, through the death of all the other Zetas (not counting Camaro, which will sell anyway) Pontiac could potentially benefit BIG TIME because it has no corporate competition. the niche is wide open and the answer already sits in Pontiac's showroom. No development, no lead time, no . Just expand the line and recalibrate the mix. GM has plenty of capacity here in the states to sell more of them and they could sell more of them IF THEY'D TRY. But corporate politics won't allow it.

Yeah right... With the 'redneck' image that the El Camino has. GM is better off to start completely fresh and market the truck to young people who need to haul bikes, home improvement supplies and the like. But I'm willing to bet that the G8 ST will get about as much promotion as a fat lady at a strip club.

Or, you could utilize Theta to make it a true sporty SUV. I don't mean to be anti-GMC here, but if the Acadia deserves to die because Chevrolet has the Traverse, then why does GMC need a Theta if Chevrolet has the Equinox? Isn't the same thing going to happen? See, this is a prime example of why GM DOES NOT have too many divisions, it just DOESN'T UTILIZE THEM CORRECTLY

If you have 3 thetas coming to the US, why make them all the same? Why not make the Saturn either the euro flavored (maybe smaller or greener) alternative, make the Chevy the volume leader and then make the Pontiac the sporty alternative?

Instead of that logic, we get a fat assed Vue that is supposed to LEAD GM's plug in "green" movement, a fat assed Equinox that looks just like the Vue and probably a fat assed GMC version that will mirror the Equinox way too much.

So, move the Solstice to Cadillac where it's target demographic can't afford it? Or move it there with the same price and destroy what little prestige Cadillac has built? And why does Chevrolet need it again? the already have Corvette and Camaro convertibles. And what about the Sky? If the Traverse destroys Outlook sales, what exactly do you think a Chevy Solstice will do to Sky sales?

Not me... I'm a HUGE proponent of the Vibe. It attracts would be import customers (A few years ago it had one of the highest conquest rates of any GM -- Until GM let it get stale and cut the line up to sh*t)

If anything, the Vibe needs to be expanded and exploited. we need more versions of it and more marketing for it.

vibe is a toyota. nuff said

G6 coupe is god awful ugly and sells in low volumes. some tell me if GM is even planning another coupe or not. regardless, could go to Aura

G6 convertible - GM probably lost a ton developing that roof. and again, sells in less volume than the coupe. if a solid case for convertible exists, why not make it a luxury convertible for buick instead of a cheap pos like it is now.

G8 - i drove one the other day. wrong car for today's market. could be moved to chevy quite easily

G8 ST - would sell more if it was a chevy el camino

again, i agree that pontiac has potential, but there are no indications that GM sees that and is prepared to do what needs to be done. and given that every other brand is starving for attention, something has got to give. GM, as it stands today, can NOT support 8 brands in NA, or globally for that matter.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

In response to F-O-G:

Pontiac should consist of:

Vibe - same as now

Solstice, Solstice Coupe - Alpha SWB

Tempest Sedan/Coup/Hatch - Alpha SWB - G5 replacement

Grand Am sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon - Alpha LWB - G6 replacement

G8 gets shipped over to Chevy to be sold as the Impala, produced on same line as Camaro. Sold in sedan, truck, and wagon configurations.

I'd be fine with that... As long as Alpha includes a V8 option. Pontiac could even develop high performance V6 models for the bulk of it's line up and save the V8s for exclusive GXP lines.

Then, we'd have to do some re-naming. How about GTO for the Grand Am coupe and Firebird for the Tempest coupe?

Buick should consist of:

Skylark - EPII SWB, definately quiet tuned and built for comfort over speed.

Invicta - EPII LWB, basically the coming LaCrosse

Park Ave - Zeta

Enclave - keep the current one, why mess with success

How about a sexy convertible too, or a small car based SUV? Just a thought.

GMC would consist of:

Everything now except Acadia

That should fill out the Pontiac/Buick/GMC showrooms with very little overlap.

I'd like to see the Denali XT and HX there as well.

Saturn:

Just lift the best sellers from the Opel lineup and sell them here.

Drop the SKY and Outlook

Sounds good. Develop a halo convertible from a smaller platform?

Cadillac:

CLR - Alpha SWB coupe and roadster, think SKY that has been reworked appropriately for Cadillac.

BTS - Alpha SWB sedan

CTS - same as now, add hard top convertible

STS - SWB Zeta

DTS - LWB Zeta

SRX - coming one will sell even if it's not our tastes

Escalade - just keep it, add diesels

Agreed, except won't the STS and CTS still clash?

Saab:

Set a low reserve and "Buy it Now" price on Ebay.

LOL... Seriously though, Saab could be utilized to sell premium small cars such as Mercury or Mini. they'd obviously have to be nicer than Saturns, but that shouldn't be hard since they're already developed to be nicer than Opels.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

i don't load people's sigs. too much crap to sift thru when reading comments.

history? are you kidding me. anyone with any sense of pontiac's history is already buying german or asian cars. the younger market that presumably pontiac should target has no clue of pontiacs history.

the problem with most of you guys and your fantasy line-ups is that they are just that f-- antasies. you guys live in the past with no sense of reality with what is more likely to happen than not. i'd love for pontiac to have become a niche, RWD only lineup of no compromise sporty cars. but the fact remains they are not that today and there is no indication that they intend to do that. the pontiac image in the buying public is crap and sales are declining. so tell me, exactly what cars do they offer than couldn't be re-badged as something else?

We're not living in the past. If we were living in the past, we wouldn't be posting on a web based forum for future GM vehicles.

We just choose not to be defeatists.

GM CAN determine it's own fate, if it wants to. But they can't expect to join the Army and then not fight. Their passive defeatist management and corporate attitude is what we're here to try and condemn/change IMO.

Edited August 20, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

vibe is a toyota. nuff said

What's wrong with that?

Last time I checked, Toyota was kicking GM's ass. Any help we can get to sell cars (especially at a 'damaged brand') is fine by me.

G6 coupe is god awful ugly and sells in low volumes.

Seen the Altima coupe? It's nothing more than a Ford Fairmont for the 21st century design-wise. Seen the Solara? The G6 slays BOTH in appearance. At least GM can get the proportions right, which is more than the asians can do. (Eventhough the Accord coupe is pretty sexy IMO... Oops, did I say that?)

someone tell me if GM is even planning another coupe or not. regardless, could go to Aura

Probably not, given development. So, Pontiac has exclusivity there, why not exploit it?

G6 convertible - GM probably lost a ton developing that roof. and again, sells in less volume than the coupe. if a solid case for convertible exists, why not make it a luxury convertible for buick instead of a cheap pos like it is now.

Well, maybe that was the plan since Buick showed 2 different Cielo concept cars. But, for now at least, people who buy Buicks DON'T buy convertibles. Guys, people aren't going to start buying more Buicks simply because GM phases out the Pontiac division and funnels Buick its products. It's NOT about product! Sure, the product has to be good, but so does the marketing, image and even fashion.

G8 - i drove one the other day. good ride and decent value, but wrong car for today's market. oil prices killing it. and it could be moved to chevy quite easily

Do you think the same thing about GMT900? Should GM 'stop making trucks' simply because that isn't the market leading niche anymore? I don't think so... GM needs a well rounded line up (and has needed a well rounded line up for the past 15 years) in order to truly succeed. They can no longer afford to push tons of money into one place and completely ignore buyers in another place. Sure, the market isn't very hot for big cars right now. but how much money do you think it took to graft a Pontiac nose onto a Holden? How much money do you think the G8 makes, especially if it were to be produced here? Case closed.

G8 ST - would sell more if it was a chevy el camino

No.

again, i agree that pontiac has potential, but there are no indications that GM sees that and is prepared to do what needs to be done. and given that every other brand is starving for attention, something has got to give. GM, as it stands today, can NOT support 8 brands in NA, or globally for that matter.

There is no indication that GM will even survive another 2 years in the market. GM management is MIA on most stuff and ALL of the divisions have a lot of problems right now. Something tells me that worrying about Pontiac and it's rebadges (like them or not) is at the bottom of the list right now in the meetings.

Edited August 20, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[97regalGS]

What's wrong with that?

Last time I checked, Toyota was kicking GM's ass. Any help we can get to sell cars (especially at a 'damaged brand') is fine by me.

i don't have a problem with that, but a lot of GM purists do.

Probably not, given development. So, Pontiac has exclusivity there, why not exploit it?.

I meant another G6 coupe or are they moving away from coupes? A G6 coupe and an Aura coupe is not needed.

Do you think the same thing about GMT900? Should GM 'stop making trucks' simply because that isn't the market leading niche anymore? I don't think so... GM needs a well rounded line up (and has needed a well rounded line up for the past 15 years) in order to truly succeed. They can no longer afford to push tons of money into one place and completely ignore buyers in another place. Sure, the market isn't very hot for big cars right now. but how much money do you think it took to graft a Pontiac nose onto a Holden? How much money do you think the G8 makes, especially if it were to be produced here? Case closed.

I didn't say to stop making the G8. However, it cost a &#036;h&#33;load more to ship a Holden to the USA than it did when GM decided to do that. Tooling up Oshawa to make it here would be a good idea, given Camaro and such, however, GM needs to figure out how many big, heavy, thirsty zeta cars it can sell in today's market before spending the dollars to do it now. And my point was that the G8 could be sold as an Impala just as easily. And for the historians, I'm sure you'd prefer it be called Impala instead of the ludicrous name of G8.

No.

Oh, I'm quite sure that instead of the 500 ST's that will get sold that GM could have sold 505 if it was an El Camino.

There is no indication that GM will even survive another 2 years in the market. GM management is MIA on most stuff and ALL of the divisions have a lot of problems right now. Something tells me that worrying about Pontiac and it's rebadges (like them or not) is at the bottom of the list right now in the meetings.

I'm sure there is a ton of &#036;h&#33; going on in mgmt meetings and killing pontiac and any other brand and/or platform is definitely on the agenda. In fact, I'd say there is nothing that isn't on the table.

Pontiac as it sits today is doomed to failure. Half assed products and marketing strategy won't cut it. Business impact and financial considerations notwithstanding, ah-ha's concept of turning Pontiac into a 'boutique' Mini type brand of unique vehicles was a really cool idea that, sadly, was not possible to execute given GM's structure and organization.

[cire]

Pontiac could be salvaged if GM reshuffled their dealer networks and gave the division a brand appropriate lineup. I think the current dealer network setup is still too confusing and causes too much overlap and internal competition. Buick needs to join Cadillac in the luxury dealer network (Buick/Cadillac). Saturn needs to be converted to Opel and combined with Saab to form an import focused dealer network (Opel/Saab). Pontiac needs to be given an affordable RWD lineup and combined with Chevy to form the affordable dealer super-network (Chevrolet/Pontiac; this idea actually originated from a post submitted by "InvictaMan"). I'm not quite sure what to do with GMC or Hummer.

Pontiac could justify its existence with a 4 product future lineup:

1) "Solstice" roadster and 2-seat coupe (if GM hasn't pulled the plug on the next generation).

2) "LeMans"^ compact 3-door, 5-door*, and wagon based on the Alpha platform. Styling would be based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept (which would make the transition from concept to production). The production version would be approximately 182 inches long on a 109 inch wheelbase. I'm sure most of the GM enthusiasts on this form already know about this car, but I still provided a link below:

undefined

3) "Grand Prix"^ midsize coupe, sedan*, and wagon based on the SWB Sigma-Zeta platform. Styling would be merged with a downsized next gen Holden Commodore (approximately 190 inches long on a 114 inch wheelbase).

4) "Bonneville"^ large sedan on the LWB Sigma-Zeta platform. Styling would be merged with a downsized next gen Holden Statesman (approximately 198 inches long on a 118 inch wheelbase).

* I would initially offer "LeMans"/"Grand Prix" in their respective 5-door/sedan configurations first and then add other versions based on how well the initial configurations performed in the market.

^ I hate the current G-numeric model structure so I replaced it with model names from Pontiac's past (except "Solstice", which doesn't need replacing) that conjure up sporty or racing imagery.

Pontiac might do better with this kind of lineup if the division was morphed into an affordable, sporty offshoot of Chevrolet. This arrangement might attract more attention and traffic to Pontiac since Chevy is the corporation's high profile, large volume division. Chevy's lineup would consist of affordable FWD cars, FWD/AWD crossovers, trucks/SUVs (if not assigned solely to GMC, which would then be combined with Chevy/Pontiac), and the Camaro/Corvette (which are iconic Chevy products). Pontiac's lineup would consist solely of affordable, but sporty RWD cars. Except for the Solstice, the other three products would be based on Holden products that could be rebadged and shipped abroad to foreign markets (much like the current Commodore and Statesman). This would leverage the development costs and offset risks if the products prove to be market failures in the U.S. (I personally think the "LeMans" proposal above has much more youthful appeal and potential than any of Scion's products).

Edited August 22, 2008 by cire

[97regalGS]

Pontiac could be salvaged if GM reshuffled their dealer networks and gave the division a brand appropriate lineup. I think the current dealer network setup is still too confusing and causes too much overlap and internal competition. Buick needs to join Cadillac in the luxury dealer network (Buick/Cadillac). Saturn needs to be converted to Opel and combined with Saab to form an import focused dealer network (Opel/Saab). Pontiac needs to be given an affordable RWD lineup and combined with Chevy to form the affordable dealer super-network (Chevrolet/Pontiac; this idea actually originated from a post submitted by "InvictaMan"). I'm not quite sure what to do with GMC or Hummer.

Pontiac could justify its existence with a 4 product future lineup:

1) "Solstice" roadster and 2-seat coupe (if GM hasn't pulled the plug on the next generation).

2) "LeMans"^ compact 3-door, 5-door*, and wagon based on the Alpha platform. Styling would be based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept (which would make the transition from concept to production). The production version would be approximately 182 inches long on a 109 inch wheelbase. I'm sure most of the GM enthusiasts on this form already know about this car, but I still provided a link below:

undefined

3) "Grand Prix"^ midsize coupe, sedan*, and wagon based on the SWB Sigma-Zeta platform. Styling would be merged with a downsized next gen Holden Commodore (approximately 190 inches long on a 114 inch wheelbase).

4) "Bonneville"^ large sedan on the LWB Sigma-Zeta platform. Styling would be merged with a downsized next gen Holden Statesman (approximately 198 inches long on a 118 inch wheelbase).

* I would initially offer "LeMans"/"Grand Prix" in their respective 5-door/sedan configurations first and then add other versions based on how well the initial configurations performed in the market.

^ I hate the current G-numeric model structure so I replaced it with model names from Pontiac's past (except "Solstice", which doesn't need replacing) that conjure up sporty or racing imagery.

Pontiac might do better with this kind of lineup if the division was morphed into an affordable, sporty offshoot of Chevrolet. This arrangement might attract more attention and traffic to Pontiac since Chevy is the corporation's high profile, large volume division. Chevy's lineup would consist of affordable FWD cars, FWD/AWD crossovers, trucks/SUVs (if not assigned solely to GMC, which would then be combined with Chevy/Pontiac), and the Camaro/Corvette (which are iconic Chevy products). Pontiac's lineup would consist solely of affordable, but sporty RWD cars. Except for the Solstice, the other three products would be based on Holden products that could be rebadged and shipped abroad to foreign markets (much like the current Commodore and Statesman). This would leverage the development costs and offset risks if the products prove to be market failures in the U.S. (I personally think the "LeMans" proposal above has much more youthful appeal and potential than any of Scion's products).

some interesting thoughts, but at the end of the day just another armchair quarterback, making wild musings about what could be, based no more on the reality of the situation than the folks who thought the Camaro was going to be on dealer lots by the end of 2007.

[cire]

some interesting thoughts, but at the end of the day just another armchair quarterback, making wild musings about what could be, based no more on the reality of the situation than the folks who thought the Camaro was going to be on dealer lots by the end of 2007.

Yes, my version of a future Pontiac lineup is nowhere near being factual (it is just a proposal, after all), but I don't think it's all that wild. It could be a reality if GM really wanted to make something out of the brand. To me, giving Pontiac an all RWD lineup shared with the corporation's other global brands (such as Holden in Australia or Chevy in the Middle East) would be a better way to leverage the development costs of RWD platforms for Cadillac than to randomly stuff RWD products into other GM divisions without any rhyme or reason. Pontiac would then become the corporation's designated brand for affordable RWD cars (except for the Camaro and Corvette for Chevy). I'm just as doubtful as you that it will happen based on what appears to be the company's recent abandonment of their RWD expansion products.

I agree with you about Pontiac's current state and have even submitted a similar post prior to your post. I don't want to see Pontiac discontinued, but I think it would be in GM's best interests to do so if they are not going to truly commit to transforming the brand. It simply seems like a waste of marketing money to support 2-3 weak brands (Chevy, Pontiac, and Saturn) to target the affordable end of the market when the corporation could do it more effectively and efficiently with one strong mainstream, volume brand (To me, Chevy would be the most obvious choice). I think that Saturn and Pontiac dealerships would be better utilized targeting import shoppers as Opel/Saab dealerships instead (after transferring Buick to join Cadillac and possibly moving Pontiac/GMC to join Chevy).

Quote from post submitted on August 11, 2008:

To me, Pontiac is a bigger waste of resources in its current form. Why spend money to market a brand that basically targets the same affordable portion of the market as Chevy? Unless GM really has a plan up its sleeve to make this brand over (which I seriously doubt at this point), why keep spending money to market it when most of its products are either redundant rebadges or could be sold just as effectively by other brands?:

* The G3/Wave, G5, and Torrent are all unnecessary rebadges of Chevy products and could be discontinued.

* The G6 Sedan is outclassed by its Malibu/Aura platform mates and could be discontinued. The G6 Coupe could be sold as a Chevrolet Monte Carlo. The G6 Convertible could be replaced by a "TwinTop" coupe version of the Opel Insignia if GM were smart enough to create it and sell it here as an Opel Insignia.

* The G8 Sedan could replace the current FWD Chevy Impala. The G8 ST (if GM still insists on importing the Ute) could be badged as a Chevrolet El Camino.

* The Sky outsells the Solstice and is aligned with the global product sold abroad by other GM brands, so I would definitely keep it instead of the Solstice. A luxury retractable hardtop platform mate could then be developed for Cadillac.

* If GM is somehow contractually bound to coproduce the Vibe with Toyota, then it could also be badged as a Chevy just like the coproduced Prism before it.

My preference for Pontiac's future would be to give it the 4 vehicle RWD lineup I proposed before ("Solstice", "LeMans", "Grand Prix", and "Bonneville") and make it an affordable performance sub-brand of Chevrolet (much like Scion is a sub-brand of Toyota). Pontiac would still be a niche brand under this plan, but at least it would be a niche brand with a purpose (and a brand that might be able to draw new customers into Chevy/Pontiac showrooms; something that the corporation desperately needs).

Edited August 23, 2008 by cire

[smk4565]

Wow, this is sooo different than the 05 model. Pontiac clearly is a viable brand and could never be killed with such up to date vehicles as this. For the same money, why would anyone want an 08 Malibu (or Accord or Sonata or 09 Fusion) over the G6?

[Oracle of Delphi]

I don't like the G6, but I don't rant about it, to me seems like a chick car, all I ever see driving it.