Was rebuffing Renault-Nissan a mistake?

[enzl]

ttp://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/news/companies/taylor_nissan_gm.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008081313

[LosAngeles]

I don't think Renault-Nissan should waste itself with any American car company. All three are too large for anything they do to really add to the automotive landscape or benefit any party involved. It would be lost in the sauce of way too many models being a wash IMO.

[Drew Dowdell]

And what would each company gain from the other?

[turbo200]

And what would each company gain from the other?

at this point, money, for the domestic suitors. all the domestic companies have funding plans hinging on turnarounds based around 2010. doesn't count for other unforseen circumstances. give us a national gas shortage, for example, and GM is done.

[LosAngeles]

Alliances I could see working between Detroit and Renault-Nissan would be not in actual products, but in plant capacity. Whatever becomes redundant can be leased or sold to other companies instead of them building brand new facilities.

[enzl]

I can't believe that the Renault-Nissan idea doesn't seem like a much better idea, given hindsight.

GM needs to lower costs---the economy of scale would have been dramatically improved, especially in the small cars that GM has NEVER made money on here in the US. Perhaps small Renaults could have been sold here--or small commercial vehicles, too. GM could have let them use factory space to build trucks, cars---whatever---let 'em host bar-mitzvahs in the old buildings---something to pay the bills.

It was a decent idea, doomed by the threat to all of the corporate feifdoms at GM and thus, unthinkable to the j-asses running the show---Ghosn would have b-slapped that place into some sort of working order, rather that the 'death of a thousand cuts' that will inevitably (and ironically) place the same disinterested mgmt onto the unemployment lines in short order.

[Drew Dowdell]

I see nothing at Renault or Nissan that could be offered to GM in terms of technology. The only thing GM has to offer to them is large trucks and SUVs.... the likes of which are of dubious value right now.

Some of might suggest that Nissan or Renault could offer small cars to GM for sale in the US... however, the Astra is clearly holding it's own in Europe and would do much better here if marketed correctly. Astra is proof that GM can make small cars.

[VenSeattle]

One of the main reasons GM purchased and operates Daewoo is for small car development. An alliance on top of that acquisition would be ridiculous. Spy shots of the new Chevy CRUZE along with the future sub/micro compacts coming out of Daewoo show a lot of global promise.

[Drew Dowdell]

Back in the days of the "true" divisions, there was a lot of inter-division competition. Now that all the divisions in NA have been essentially merged, it seems the internal competition is much more global. GM-DAT v. GMNA v. GMEU v. GMAU.... and I don't think that's a bad thing. Challenging GMDAT and GMEU to come up with the best global compact and sub compacts should produce interesting results. Best RWD platform being a contest between GMNA and GMAU <Sigma v. Zeta> with the eventual combination of the best of both.

[cire]

I think Chrysler would be the domestic auto company that would benefit the most from a merger with Renault-Nissan.

GM and Ford have global resources to rely on to help them make it through the tough changes in the U.S. market.

[Robert Hall]

I think Chrysler would be the domestic auto company that would benefit the most from a merger with Renault-Nissan.

GM and Ford have global resources to rely on to help them make it through the tough changes in the U.S. market.

Given the JVs they have coming up, I wouldn't be surprised at a bigger Renault-Nissan-Chrysler tie up down the road..

[gmcbob]

Given the JVs they have coming up, I wouldn't be surprised at a bigger Renault-Nissan-Chrysler tie up down the road..

Yeah, it kind of seems like Renault-Nissan is going to merge with Chrysler here in the next year or so. They're already collaborating on the next generation Ram/Titan and the Versa/Dodge small car. It'll be interesting to see.

Incidentally, I think the 09 Ram is going to be pretty sweet.

[daves87rs]

No.

There is nothing R/N offers nothing that GM cannot do on their own, for the most part.....

And GM would have given up quite a bit in a deal like that.....

[Guest aatbloke]

And what would each company gain from the other?

Vauxhall/Opel have had a long-established tie-up with Renault to build variants of its Trafic and Master large commercial vans, with Nissan since also gaining its own variants as well. That's been a successful venture now well into its second generation. An expansion of similar agreements to other markets such as those in North America might be possible given the success of Mercedes' Sprinter there.

[Drew Dowdell]

Vauxhall/Opel have had a long-established tie-up with Renault to build variants of its Trafic and Master large commercial vans, with Nissan since also gaining its own variants as well. That's been a successful venture now well into its second generation. An expansion of similar agreements to other markets such as those in North America might be possible given the success of Mercedes' Sprinter there.

Safari + 4.3 litre diesel or 2.9 litre diesel = problem solved.

[Robert Hall]

The Vivaro or Movano would be nice to see in the US badged as GMCs to compete with the Sprinter.

[enzl]

No.

There is nothing R/N offers nothing that GM cannot do on their own, for the most part.....

And GM would have given up quite a bit in a deal like that.....

Except the capital to do everything they NEED to do.

You do realize that GM may simply run out of money if things don't get better, right?

You notice what CAFE regs will require in a few short years, no?

You're aware that GMAC is pulling out of the lease biz, for the most part?

Or that ResCap and the 49% GM still owns sinking faster than you can say 'foreclosure'?

Or the Delphi mess requiring $Billions?

Nah, GM couldn't use the help.

[Guest aatbloke]

Safari + 4.3 litre diesel or 2.9 litre diesel = problem solved.

I'm not sure if it does though in all respects, since the Safari appears more bloated dimensionally like the former Dodge Ram van. A high-top Vivaro in North America would compete more directly with the Sprinter and Ford's Transit (i.e. not the Connect), if rumours of its debut there ever come to fruition.

[Robert Hall]

I'm not sure if it does though in all respects, since the Safari appears more bloated dimensionally like the former Dodge Ram van. A high-top Vivaro in North America would compete more directly with the Sprinter and Ford's Transit (i.e. not the Connect), if rumours of its debut there ever come to fruition.

Yes, and the Safari is an out of production 20+yr old design... it and the Astro had some of the worst crash test results of any GM model, by the way.