Spy Shots: Cadillac CTS coupe caught with minimal camo

[BigPontiac]

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[smk4565]

I guess this is Cadillac's new flagship since the STS and DTS are dying in 2010 and not being replaced with anything. I don't like the rear window on the coupe, something about the size of it or the slope or Prius/wedge shape of the back doesn't seem right.

[Intrepidation]

Well, it looks liked GM wussed-out on this one too. No hardtop. Looks like Mercedes will continue to be the only one below the 6-figure mark with a real hardtop.

[FAPTurbo]

In before the wanton B-Pillar hate-fest.

Frankly, I don't see anything 'wussed out' on this vehicle. It's going to be one hell of a looker on the road.

[nferr]

That car is HOT. The best looking Caddy since the late 60's Eldorado IMO.

[michaelv13]

Well, it looks liked GM wussed-out on this one too. No hardtop. Looks like Mercedes will continue to be the only one below the 6-figure mark with a real hardtop.

You forgot about how heavy it is and how late in the life cycle it is compared to the BMW 3er models.

[smk4565]

Well it probably is heavy.

[enzl]

The CTS is everything that's right with GM nowadays.

They can't make enough variations, IMHO.

Bring on the 'vert, a shooting brake, whatever.

For most people, most of the time, the CTS is the equal or better to the 3.

[balthazar]

It certainly is a hot lil' coupe. Love the center exhaust- think it'll be maddingly and inexplicably 2" off-center like BMW used to consistantly do? Nah, I don't think so either. Also refreshing to see it's not a simple '4-door sedan w/ 2 doors', like the stuffy 3-series 2-dr.

Yep- bummed it's not a hardtop, guess I shouldn't ever expect to see one from GM again if this isn't going to be one. Wouldn't come anywhere near close to being a deal-breaker for me, tho, were I in the market.

[Robert Hall]

Really looking forward to seeing this one in person.

[smk4565]

For most people, most of the time, the CTS is the equal or better to the 3.

Equal or better at what? The CTS doesn't perform as well, doesn't have the resale value a bmw has, and the 3-series outsells it by a big margin.

[enzl]

Equal or better at what? The CTS doesn't perform as well, doesn't have the resale value a bmw has, and the 3-series outsells it by a big margin.

Most people, most of the time will get a better value, a bigger & more useful car and, IMHO, a car that looks better than any 3 4-door.

Most BMW people lease, so payments, factoring in pricing & GMAC's generosity, will be the same or less in the Caddy.

Most 3 series buyers could care less about what a 3 is capable of, nor will they ever use that capability. I don't think its a stretch to say that the Caddy, barring people biases, is an intelligent alternative.

[balthazar]

And how does sales volume have anything to do with judging the 2 actual cars vs. each other??

[Drew Dowdell]

Equal or better at what? The CTS doesn't perform as well, doesn't have the resale value a bmw has, and the 3-series outsells it by a big margin.

The 3-series has become the rich girl's Jetta.

[smk4565]

And how does sales volume have anything to do with judging the 2 actual cars vs. each other??

If most people most of the time found the CTS to be equal or better, than most people would buy it.

I agree that the CTS is a credible car in the entry luxury class, but it is large, so 3-series buyers probably aren't looking at it. CTS is closer to the STS, Lexus, G35, MKZ, TL.

[Intrepidation]

I do agree that it's sjaping up to be a looker, and I wouldn't mind owning one. However my 3 problems with the hardtop issue are thus: why bother showing it as a hardtop?

1. If they hadn't there wouldn't be (much) reason for complaints, because it was never shown without the B-pillar.
2. Since one of the arguments of building a hardtop was cost, a Cadillac, a luxury car where cost isn't an issue, should have had it
3. I might very well have chosen this over the Camaro if it was a hardtop, not anymore.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Drew Dowdell]

If most people most of the time found the CTS to be equal or better, than most people would buy it.

I agree that the CTS is a credible car in the entry luxury class, but it is large, so 3-series buyers probably aren't looking at it. CTS is closer to the STS, Lexus, G35, MKZ, TL.

Yet the Camry is still number one when it's clearly been eclipsed not only by Honda but by Chevy as well.

Your Aurora was easily better than anything at Chrysler, Mercury, Lincoln, Buick, and Acura <over the RL at least>. Look where it got it.

[smk4565]

Yet the Camry is still number one when it's clearly been eclipsed not only by Honda but by Chevy as well.

Your Aurora was easily better than anything at Chrysler, Mercury, Lincoln, Buick, and Acura <over the RL at least>. Look where it got it.

Well the Accord still sells close to Camry volume. Marketing, personal tastes and image of the car are going to play a big part even if a car is worse than another. The Aurora sold pretty well for a $35-40k car in the 01 model year, but sales dropped big time when they announced the brand was going to die.

The CTS is a good car, it just can't perform like a BMW, so it is unwise for Cadillac to target BMW, they won't get those buyers anyway. They need to go after Lincoln owners that only buy American as well as other American car owners trading up, Acura owners that like techy stuff and push the nav screen/hard drive. Maybe they can get a few Infiniti or Lexus drivers because the CTS sits in the middle of a G35 and ES350 on the sport - luxury spectrum.

If they want to go after the Germans, they need to more with the car, and equip it and price it like an E-class. But I think Cadillac knows people won't spend $52k base for a CTS or any other Cadillac sedan for that matter. So that is why they are the "value" luxury brand.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well the Accord still sells close to Camry volume. Marketing, personal tastes and image of the car are going to play a big part even if a car is worse than another. The Aurora sold pretty well for a $35-40k car in the 01 model year, but sales dropped big time when they announced the brand was going to die.

The CTS is a good car, it just can't perform like a BMW, so it is unwise for Cadillac to target BMW, they won't get those buyers anyway. They need to go after Lincoln owners that only buy American as well as other American car owners trading up, Acura owners that like techy stuff and push the nav screen/hard drive. Maybe they can get a few Infiniti or Lexus drivers because the CTS sits in the middle of a G35 and ES350 on the sport - luxury spectrum.

If they want to go after the Germans, they need to more with the car, and equip it and price it like an E-class. But I think Cadillac knows people won't spend $52k base for a CTS or any other Cadillac sedan for that matter. So that is why they are the "value" luxury brand.

Why is it that BMW's performance is the only benchmark it's held to? The rest of the car is unremarkable and they're as common as Jettas <actually more so after the new Jettarolla came out>

[smk4565]

Because BMW's performance exceeds everyone else. No one else has the ride/handling balance they have, and BMWs let you feel connected to the road. I agree that the rest isn't that remarkable. I don't care for the styling inside or out, they use good materials and the car is well built. But when you drive a 5-series, you forget about the dumb iDrive or Bangle butt because the thing drives perfectly.

Driving dynamics make a BMW what it is, and that is something other's can't copy. A lot of other luxury brands focus on wood and leather, nav-system, or sound deadening, stereo system, etc. That is easy to copy, anyone can do that stuff. The engineering aspect is what sets the Germans and particularly BMW apart from the rest.

[Drew Dowdell]

Driving dynamics make a BMW what it is

A great handling VW Jetta?

[smk4565]

A great handling VW Jetta?

BMWs don't have much in common with a Jetta, aside from the company is based in the same country. The Malibu and CTS are more similar than a Jetta and 3-series.

[Robert Hall]

A great handling VW Jetta?

I would never compare it to a Jetta.. the Jetta is a decent FWD compact, but BMWs are the real thing...RWD.

I'll admit, though, even as a former BMW owner, I'm avoiding the new 3 series...it's just such a predictable purchase, and looking at the prices

with options, the CTS to me seems a better buy....so I'm leaning towards a CTS for my next commuter car/daily driver. But on the other hand,

with the June 2010 midlife crisis looming, part of me keeps thinking about a convertible of some sort. Auggghhh.

Edited August 13, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

I was referring more towards the Jetta's ubiquitousness and that the 3-series is a Jetta but with really great handling. Every Sally McMansion has one. There is nothing visually stimulating about them and non-car people have trouble telling a current 3er from the previous one.

When a 3er drives by, no one stops and stares and says "Wow! That's a BMW?". Of course it's a BMW! It looks just like the last one. When a CTS drives by people watch it. Back when my '04 was new and I was single the gay boys would respond "Why do you drive a Cadillac?" with a sneer... but once they saw the car it would switch to "Wow! That's a Cadillac?!"

I'd never own a 3er. It's just too.... common.

[smk4565]

The CTS looks overweight, the wheel arches bulge out too much and the body below the windows looks much wider than it does at the roof. And the trunk is high and chunky looking. The old one was a little slab-sidded, but the overall proportions I thought were better.

The 3-series isn't striking, but using a similar look all those years helps people recognize that it is a BMW and helps with resale. A lot of GM cars change look so much, by the time they are 8-10 years old they look grossly outdated. Although I wouldn't buy a 3-series either because they are too common and too many wannabees have them. 5-series is ugly, so I wouldn't buy that either. Jaguar XF is probably for me.

[ocnblu]

smk, are you sure this is the right forum for you?

[The O.C.]

I'll admit, though, even as a former BMW owner, I'm avoiding the new 3 series...it's just such a predictable purchase, and looking at the prices

with options, the CTS to me seems a better buy....so I'm leaning towards a CTS for my next commuter car/daily driver.

The only problem we are seeing now, is that CTS lease payments are now more, in some cases up $200-$300, over a comparable 3-series, C-class, or IS Lexus.

That's a problem.

With the new lease rates and lowered residuals GMAC has just implemented, you are close to $800/month for a $45K CTS.

If you want a loaded CTS with DI, auto, navigation, summer-tire performance package, the '09 has topped $50K for the first time. We just got in 5 loaded '09s and they are all $50,400.

Also, there are no cash incentives.....still......

So....yes.....up until this month, CTS was still hot. But if GM isn't careful, this car is going to do the quickest 180-degree turn in sales that the company has ever seen.

[enzl]

BMW is having similar issues...although on a smaller scale.

You'll see their lease deals diminish and financing options grow as they shy away from leasing.

We're buying 05/06 BMW's at auction for $1,000s below residuals set by BMW...and they're writing off millions in losses.

Eventually, GM will follow Chrysler's lead and offer big incentives on 3rd party leases to buy back the biz. I think GM is currently fiddling with the CTS deals in an effort to keep revenue up as trucks tank.

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS looks overweight, the wheel arches bulge out too much and the body below the windows looks much wider than it does at the roof. And the trunk is high and chunky looking. The old one was a little slab-sidded, but the overall proportions I thought were better.

The 3-series isn't striking, but using a similar look all those years helps people recognize that it is a BMW and helps with resale. A lot of GM cars change look so much, by the time they are 8-10 years old they look grossly outdated. Although I wouldn't buy a 3-series either because they are too common and too many wannabees have them. 5-series is ugly, so I wouldn't buy that either. Jaguar XF is probably for me.

I don't think anyone mistakes either generation of CTS for anything but a Cadillac. A vehicle can have a strong brand identity without looking basically the same as the previous generation.

[Intrepidation]

smk is so full of crap they need to start another pile.

[Drew Dowdell]

smk is so full of crap they need to start another pile.

quote of the day!