Phantoms

[Camino LS6]

Phantoms (cars the factory could have built, but didn't) have always been a passion of mine.

One great example would be a 94-96 Impala SS 2-door convertible - a car that would be a major collectible now had it been built IMO.

So, what Phantoms would you like to build if money were not an issue?

[Sixty8panther]

- 193(7) 16-cylinder [452 ohv V16] LaSalle Dual Cowl Phaeton

- 1959 Buick Electra 225 Dual Cowl Phaeton, powered by an ALL ALUMINUM 430 cu.in. V16*

- "1997" Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Coupe HARDTOP with a 6-forward gear automatic trans.

- "1997" Buick Roadmaster 2-door HARDTOP with an LS1, IRS & 6-speed manual

* if you have to ask HOW? about the Motor then you do not belong on a GM forum. :wink:

[SuperSport623]

* if you have to ask HOW? about the Motor then you do not belong on a GM forum. :wink:

*raises hand!!*

oooh! pick me!!!

does it start with a motor desgined by a division with three shields, and used by the arrowhead, and eventually strapped with a turbocharger (to make it a REAL rocket ) used in the early 60's Y Bodies?? maybe two of those motors on a common crank?!?!?!

i often wonder what the the 68-72 nova lineup woulda looked like if it was a full lineup offered when the nova/chevy II lineup in 62? (four door, two door sedan, two door HARDTOP droptop, and wagon

[XP715]

I'd make an Eldorado like mine that pushed instead of pulled. I would also take a last-gen Riviera like I used to have, black on black, and retrofit it with Grand National engine and drivetrain (also pushing instead of pulling).

[Robert Hall]

How about an Olds '98' built from combining a '90s Roadmaster sedan with the '92-93 Custom Cruiser front end and some Olds style vertical taillights. And how about a 'Starfire' performance version of the same but with a 2dr body and '96 Impala SS drivetrain?

Or how a Pontiac 'Grand Ville' version of the '91-96 Caprice...and a performance Catalina 2+2 version based on a '96 Impala SS.

A 2dr Nomad wagon built from a '91-96 Caprice wagon.

A Mercury Marauder 2dr convertible like the concept car from '03 or so.

A Ford Crown Victoria GT500 with Shelby GT500 engine, transmission, etc.

I've long thought a mid-engined 4th gen Camaro would fun to build...mount the V8 where the back seat is, visible under the glass hatch.

Edited August 12, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

>>"...maybe two of those motors on a common crank..."<<

A lil' JB Weld and you're motorvatin' !

Just within B-59s: I love to build a 'Estate Coupe' pickup,

an extended deck Electra 225 with the XP-706 double-bubble rear glass,

and the XP-75 Skylark 2-seat coupe.

[SuperSport623]

LS1 under glass?!

[mustang84]

The RWD G-body platform would never have been axed.

Chevy Nomad on the Kappa platform.

Lincoln LS V8 coupe

Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan / Lincoln MKZ coupe, Duratec 35 sport models for the Fusion and Milan

[Robert Hall]

I still wonder about the backstory on a phantom I used to see in Ohio...it was a gray '85-86 Buick Electra 4dr stretch--a mild stretch, maybe 4 inches....thicker C-pillars and longer rear doors. Since Ohio used to be home of many professional car makers (Flxbl, S&S, I think were in Ohio) maybe it was built by one of them..

[Oracle of Delphi]

Back in 1990, GM had plans to produce Beretta convertibles, based on the Indy Pace car of that year, GM actually produced about 100 of them.

I watched GM scrap 75 of them. I hear only one escaped that fate.

[wildcat]

The Buick Riviera Concept Car... as a 2009 model.

[Camino LS6]

Good stuff!

Keep 'em coming.

[z28luvr01]

2003-2009 Camaro/Firebird, based on the Holden VW architecture.

A V8 option for the S10. (Heck, so many people did their own V8 conversions anyway)

1997+ 2dr Tahoe.

Manual tranny options in V6 N bodies and W bodies

Cobalt convertible

The Nomad

The Bel Air (the revised one)

The Sixteen

The Cien

THe Aura conept, as it was.

The G6 concept, as it iwas

The Velite

the list goes on and on....

[Intrepidation]

Chrysler Airflite, the RWD midsize concept based on a shorted version of LX, as opposed to the FWD craptastic Sebring that tried to emulate it.

Chrysler Firepower. It was completely doable...Viperp latform with the 6.1L Hemi...would have made a great GT replacement for the Crossfire.

[Blake Noble]

A second-generation GMC Syclone. Hmmm ...

[Sixty8panther]

I'd make an Eldorado like mine that pushed instead of pulled. I would also take a last-gen Riviera like I used to have, black on black, and retrofit it with Grand National engine and drivetrain (also pushing instead of pulling).

I always liked these two ideas, not outrageously creative

but a solid idea of making 1+1 = > 2. RWD would make

the already cool 95-99 G-body Riviera & gorgeous, sleek,

sharp-dressed '67 Eldo into pure perfection...

Well, so long as it also involved taking a sawzall to the

B-post on the Rivy, installing some rear-side window

regulators, custom cut glass & some fabrication.

Oh, and BTW, you know EVERY good UPS-er knows that

PUSHING IS THE PROPER METHOD OF MOVING LARGE OR

HEAVY OBJECTS!!! NEVER PULLING!!!

PULLING PRODUCES EXCESS STRAIN ON THE BACK,

JOINTS, MUSCLES & WASTES ENERGY.*

So in that vein I guess it's about time everything except

for the Mini, Civic, Aveo & other econoboxes convert to

RWD, it's for everyones good!

* that's straight out the UPS (pre-loader)

"methods handbook", based on 101 years of service. :AH-HA_wink:

[GMTruckGuy74]

1997+ 2dr Tahoe.

Chevy Tahoe 2-door SUVs were produced until 1999 (GMC stopped producing the Yukon 2-door in 1997).

I would have loved to see the traditional full-size 2-door SUV remain in the line-up, especially with the 2000 redesign (GM explored this concept, producing 3 red Tahoe 2-doors, in addition to the K-5 Blazer concept truck of 2001). Here are two pictures for proof:

And it's story can be found here: click!

And due to the 2-door's popularity much further south, Dodge did bring back the RamCharger for Mexico only in 2000:

[siegen]

The HSC.

[Sixty8panther]

The HSC was pretty cool... nothing earth shattering.

Something along those lines, esp. stylistically,

should have replaced the NSX in like 1997 or 1999.

[LosAngeles]

I'd focus more on engine swaps or doing bolt-on projects, stuff that seems to naturally lend to the host car, more so than such sacrilege as converting fronties to rear-drive or putting the exterior under the knife.

I'll post my examples later on.

[Sixty8panther]

I'd focus more on engine swaps or doing bolt-on projects, stuff that seems to naturally lend to the host car, more so than such sacrilege as converting fronties to rear-drive or putting the exterior under the knife.

That's not sacrilege.... FWD is sacrilege!

[Robert Hall]

That's not sacrilege.... FWD is sacrilege!

How about converting RWD to FWD? That would be a bold move..... imagine....converting a 4th gen Camaro to be a FWD turbo 4!

(No more insane than some of the other ideas here.. )

[Sixty8panther]

How about converting RWD to FWD? That would be a bold move..... imagine....converting a 4th gen Camaro to be a FWD turbo 4!

(No more insane than some of the other ideas here.. )

Excuse me for a sec... I think, eww... I just threw up in mouth a little bit!

[Camino LS6]

I think some of you are missing the point here just a bit. A Phantom isn't just an engine swap, it isn't a full-on custom (changing the drive wheels etc.), and it isn't a concept car brought to life (unless it is on a production platform.

These would be Phantoms:

A 2-door Tahoe

A convertible GTO

a G8 coupe

A Solstice sedan

A '72 Chevelle sedan delivery

A Mustang wagon

and so on...

[XP715]

I would also make a proper two-door panel truck of my generation of Suburban ('73-'91), as well as a two-door barn door K5 Blazer from this generation.

[Sixty8panther]

Camino:

I get it but you gotta remember people these

days lack imagination & therefore are often

times easily impressed.

This is why kids spend as much time as it

would take YOU to drop a Poncho 455, 6-spd

& custom IRS in a '79 Sunbird, just to drop a

1.8 liter four cylinder V-tec into a (still FWD)

Honda Civic that left the factory in Nippon

with a 1.6 liter four cylinder motor, apply 4

square yards of decals, custom deep-dish

20" rims, 75 yards of day-glo-green wire

insulation tubing & better still: a dozen+ TV

screens in every nook & cranny.

My example of garden variety "Phantoms"

- '89 Grand Prix Turbo Convertible (3.1 Turbo GP + Olds Cutlass Supr. ragtop)

- '83 Imperial (bustleback) pillar-less hardtop, 440-powered

- '80s Mercedes Benz "560SECL"? pillarless 4-door hardtop*

* the one I had in my signature up until yesterday...

any of you care to tell us how the crazy germans managed

to sink all that glass into the rear doors?

I've got two ideas.

[michaelv13]

Nothing else better than this. Build it with DI3.6 Turbo and 6 speed or an LS engine with 6 speed and make it RWD.

[ocnblu]

I believe a "Phantom" is a vehicle that could have been built, but wasn't. It is a project that looks as if it should have come off the assembly line... and it is based on a production vehicle. For example, a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest "El Camino". I believe my '81 Bonneville "Trans Am" in that recent thread qualifies, please Camino, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Camino LS6]

I believe a "Phantom" is a vehicle that could have been built, but wasn't. It is a project that looks as if it should have come off the assembly line... and it is based on a production vehicle. For example, a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest "El Camino". I believe my '81 Bonneville "Trans Am" in that recent thread qualifies, please Camino, correct me if I'm wrong.

You have it exactly right, Mr. Blu.

[Camino LS6]

And just to confuse the issue, I'd call this one a factory phantom:

By CaminoLS6

GM built a few of these, but they didn't make production due to costs.

[Robert Hall]

Camino:

I get it but you gotta remember people these

days lack imagination & therefore are often

times easily impressed.

This is why kids spend as much time as it

would take YOU to drop a Poncho 455, 6-spd

& custom IRS in a '79 Sunbird, just to drop a

1.8 liter four cylinder V-tec into a (still FWD)

Honda Civic that left the factory in Nippon

with a 1.6 liter four cylinder motor, apply 4

square yards of decals, custom deep-dish

20" rims, 75 yards of day-glo-green wire

insulation tubing & better still: a dozen+ TV

screens in every nook & cranny.

Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

[Camino LS6]

Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

That's some very sad commentary there.

[Robert Hall]

That's some very sad commentary there.

Yeah, reality bites.

[A Horse With No Name]

I still wonder about the backstory on a phantom I used to see in Ohio...it was a gray '85-86 Buick Electra 4dr stretch--a mild stretch, maybe 4 inches....thicker C-pillars and longer rear doors. Since Ohio used to be home of many professional car makers (Flxbl, S&S, I think were in Ohio) maybe it was built by one of them..

Actually when I needed a good 307 Olds motor for my Cutlass when I was in college, I pulled a nearly new (1300 mile) 307 from a very similar car in an Indiana junkyard. That Buick was specially built for a funeral home and totalled when nearly new.

I wish there were a good field guide to funeral home vehicles and ambulances, as well as other "specially bodied" vehicles.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

The 5.0 Mustang thing isn't really my thing but I can see it.

The Civic thing I can see if you want a lightweight FWD car to play with that has a large aftermarket.

But once an economy car, always an economy car. Actually as I have said before here I don't mind small cars if they are unique in some way. Cooper S, Volvo C-30, Pontiac Solstice = Pure lust IMHO.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Actually when I needed a good 307 Olds motor for my Cutlass when I was in college, I pulled a nearly new (1300 mile) 307 from a very similar car in an Indiana junkyard. That Buick was specially built for a funeral home and totalled when nearly new.

I wish there were a good field guide to funeral home vehicles and ambulances, as well as other "specially bodied" vehicles.

Chris

The car I saw was a stretched FWD Electra, though, which was what was so unusual about it. I've seen a 6dr RWD early '80s Le Sabre before..

[A Horse With No Name]

And just to confuse the issue, I'd call this one a factory phantom:

By CaminoLS6

GM built a few of these, but they didn't make production due to costs.

I would go all the way and build a copy of the Ferrari powered Firebird that GM built in the 1970's.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

The 5.0 Mustang thing isn't really my thing but I can see it.

The Civic thing I can see if you want a lightweight FWD car to play with that has a large aftermarket.

But once an economy car, always an economy car. Actually as I have said before here I don't mind small cars if they are unique in some way. Cooper S, Volvo C-30, Pontiac Solstice = Pure lust IMHO.

Chris

Yeah, no matter how much cash you pour into a Civic, it's still a Civic...I've never been into the hop up or hot rod scene...but I know that a lot of 20 somethings in the '90s poured tons of cash into hopping up 5.0 Mustangs... I kept my Mustang GT bone stock, I didn't have the time or inclination to modify it...I was too busy with college and grad school through '97...

[A Horse With No Name]

Back in 1990, GM had plans to produce Beretta convertibles, based on the Indy Pace car of that year, GM actually produced about 100 of them.

I watched GM scrap 75 of them. I hear only one escaped that fate.

It's amazing some of the cars that get crushed, which is just a pet peeve of mine. The first ever GNX (pre-production prototype) was donated to a school's automotive department in Indiana on the grounds that it would be crushed when they were done with it.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Yeah, no matter how much cash you pour into a Civic, it's still a Civic...I've never been into the hop up or hot rod scene...but I know that a lot of 20 somethings in the '90s poured tons of cash into hopping up 5.0 Mustangs... I kept my Mustang GT bone stock, I didn't have the time or inclination to modify it...I was too busy with college and grad school through '97...

I am into convertibles big time and would like a Z28, Firebird or Mustang convertible from that general era...but time moves on and my real current lusts are either a preserved pre war car (plane jane Ford or Chevy with a cool story would be great) or an oddball more current production car.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

It's amazing some of the cars that get crushed, which is just a pet peeve of mine. The first ever GNX (pre-production prototype) was donated to a school's automotive department in Indiana on the grounds that it would be crushed when they were done with it.

Chris

Product liability is a bitch. That's why they crush 'em, to keep the lawyers happy.

[A Horse With No Name]

Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

I am into convertibles big time and would like a Z28, Firebird or Mustang convertible from that general era...but time moves on and my real current lusts are either a preserved pre war car (plane jane Ford or Chevy with a cool story would be great) or an oddball more current production car.

Chris

I've been thinking about an '05 and up Mustang GT convertible....I'm looking forward to seeing how the '10 restyle looks, and how the Camaro convertible looks in person. Either of those would be a great 40th birthday gift to myself, to enjoy on the Colorado or Ohio backroads... I deeply miss driving the twisty backroads of Eastern Ohio in my 5.0.

[A Horse With No Name]

I've been thinking about an '05 and up Mustang GT convertible....I'm looking forward to seeing how the '10 restyle looks, and how the Camaro convertible looks in person. Either of those would be a great 40th birthday gift to myself, to enjoy on the Colorado or Ohio backroads... I deeply miss driving the twisty backroads of Eastern Ohio in my 5.0.

Trust me, I'm making up for lost time for both of us with my Miata!

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

I've seen pics of that Caprice convertible..it was very cool. Also in '66, Ford sold some very cool 4dr ht LTD limosuines, maybe 1/2 dozen were built by Hess & Eisenhardt or another coach builder...I'd love to see one of those in person..

[Robert Hall]

Trust me, I'm making up for lost time for both of us with my Miata!

Chris

Sweet...I have to get back there and visit my Mom and brother before winter....and take the 5.0 out on some of my favorite roads in Tuscarawas, Holmes, Carroll, Guernsey counties....RT39, RT800, RT541, etc...

[Camino LS6]

Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

Legend has it that GM did build a few 442 wagons.

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually 3 to be exact.

What I want to know about is 1964. I heard that the 442 package was available on any body style, and that 4 door sedans and wagons were built.

A 4 door 64 442 would be an awesome family cruiser, I think.

My favourite "rare" but true Olds is the 66 442 Tripower W-30 that was special ordered for drag racing, and painted (IIRC) yellow with a red vynal top and a turqoise interior. THAT would be an unusual car.

Oh, and another interesting couple bits of Olds Trivia...a real Documented 442 W-30 Tripower 66 car was here for sale in Ohio awhile back. THAT has to be a damned rare Olds, as they supposedly only built a total of about 100 or so tri-power 66 W-30 cars.

One of the dealers that helped GM decide to build the W-30 Tripoer cars had his son killed in one when his son used the car to show off for his friends.

Automobile Quarterly ran a great article on these cars a few years back and I'm trying to remember the rest of the article...Oh, and I may be off on the 100 figure, but it wasn't many cars.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...Oh, and don't worry, I won't be greedy, I'd be plenty happy with just a plane jane Vista Cruiser. One of the nicest cars GM ever came out with, IMHO!

Chris

[Satty]

Prius convertible

Just had to kill the buzz