I Murdered My Brother

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, I haven't yet, but probably will....

Anyways... :D I went looking at new cars yet again! Yay!

My first trip was to Brockway. The dealer was meathead Eazer Chevrolet-Pontiac. What did they have, you ask? Well, well, well... a G6 GT coupe. It was black. Looked awesome and again much better than expected. But, I'll let the pics do the talking...






My second trip was over to Dubois. The first dealer was Osbourn Pontiac-Buick-GMC. What did they have, you ask? A few G6 GTP coupes and a few Torrents. Again, I'll let the pics speak...






My third trip was over to Murray's Honda also in Dubois. I saw the new Civic coupe once again. My thoughts: Looks good, but a little frumpy. The interior is growing on me, though. My main complain is now just the double clusters. The pics...




My fourth trip was to Murray's Ford-Lincoln-Mercury located next door. I got a chance to look at each of the new sedans. They sat right next to each other too. And my thoughts: The Zephyr looks better in person. The front is nice, but doesn't match the rest of the car. The body is too similar to the others and the rear is just horrible. The interior... actually it looks good. The difference being that it had much better contrast than ones in the pics I've seen. It was black/tan with dark wood. I must say... it was quite beautiful. The Milan looks good, I guess. The front absolutely rocks, but the rear is weird and doesn't match. The interior didn't look bad, but was the same as the Ford; a turn-off. The stitching in the leather was cool, though. The Fusion looks good as well. It's bold, yet bland. That's all I really have to say about it... Now the pics...






Then my digicam's batteries died, so that's why I don't have front pics of the Milan and Fusion. :D

[Drew Dowdell]

Loooove the taillights on the Milan! BV, do you think it's disturbing that I've been to every one of those dealerships?

[bobo]

The Fusion has the best-looking rear of the triplets, but the chrome is a little too heavy-handed. I like the LEDs, but the taillights of both the Zephyr and Milan over-emphasize the high rear deck. Pontiac could have done a better job with the rear of the G6 coupe. It's too soft and doesn't match the front of the car.

[Cory Wolfe]

BV, do you think it's disturbing that I've been to every one of those dealerships?

Disturbing... no. Weird... kind of. :P

[Mike The Canadian]

Ok, thanks for the pics.... ....but on a side note, what does this have to do with murdering your brother? lol...

[Cory Wolfe]

....but on a side note, what does this have to do with murdering your brother? lol...

Absolutley nothing. :lol:

[Croc]

I like the rear of the Milan the best. The G6 coupe is much better than that of the sedan. The taillamps aren't 90s-cheesy.

[Variance]

Wow, that dealer wrote on the Zephyr's windshield like it was a used Ford Escort or something.



I like the Fusion's taillights the best. The Milan's are placed too high up to the rear for my liking. I have the same gripe with the Mazda3 sedan.

[regfootball]

the distinctive part of the Milan's ass end is the big chrome strip at the bottom of the trunk lid. that and high taillights give a real distinctive look on the road. saw one the other day and it really stood out, just like the Fusion does, but in a different way with the same sheet metal. good job ford.

[razoredge]

G6 C Rocks, I dont have time to waste while rest load =}:-)

[Justin Bimmer]

The G6 Coupe does look good for sure. The Fusion is looking better than the rest. Its nice to see how some of the GM dealer signs are updated and some are not. From what I understand the current and correct way to have a GM dealer sign is to have the updated fonts for Pontiac and the new gold logo for Chevorlet, and sadly enough to update the Cadillac Logo and to have the dealer name in BLACK backround..... The dealers here where I live, one is a a Cadillac/Oldsmobile/Hummer/Chevorlet dealer.... Its funny cause they still have Oldsmobile up there and the GM logo is a darker color than their Chevrolet sign that is about 200 yards down the street. Their Chevrolet sign still has a blue outlined bowtie on it and they used a decal overlay to add the Hummer logo below the Oldsmobile logo on the Cadillac/Oldsmobile display sign.... You would think that GM would send out updated signs to these dealers so they didn't look super ghetto compared to the other car dealers in town. Oh yeah, the new honda looks like an Ion which is gross... and I think the Torrent looks nice, so the chances are that if somebody is going to buy one, they will have fallen upon a Pontiac dealer before they reached the Chevrolet dealer..... both are nice looking but they are IDENTIAL :( Edited October 29, 2005 by CadillacKing3

[Cory Wolfe]

Heh... those are the only dealer signs I've ever seen. :P

[Bimmer325]

Whose idea was it to park all three triplets next to each other? Anyway, I'll admit that the Milan looks AWESOME. Saw one near school yesterday and couldn't get over how great it looked...even the rear.

[Justin Bimmer]

Now this is the correct Cadillac Logo and the correct dealer name sign....



and this is the correct Chevrolet sign without a correct dealer name sign

[pow]

I'm beginning to like the Milan, too. It's very ritzy, tailored-looking, and almost Italian in its detailing. The front isn't as bold as the Fusion's, but it'll probably be rarer.

[ocnblu]

Vipes, excellent adjective for the new Civic coupe... "frumpy".

I guess it's only me, but the Ford triplets look somewhat dated... maybe it's the greenhouse. I can't get into them, except for the sharp front ends on all three.

The G6 coupe is very cool. Thanks for the front 3/4 views, Vipes, showing off that nice sharp hip line. I like the reflection in the showroom window of the rear end of the white GTP.

Dealer hopping is fun. I still do it sometimes on Sunday afternoons.

[the_yellow_dart]

They don't have room for logos on the Canadian dealership signs (with the exception of Chevy SOMETIMES), cause our dealerships are always one of the following combos:

[ToniCipriani]

You know your GA looks tiny in that first shot compared to the G6...

[Cory Wolfe]

The G6 coupe is very cool. Thanks for the front 3/4 views, Vipes, showing off that nice sharp hip line. I like the reflection in the showroom window of the rear end of the white GTP.

Yeah... the reflection is why I took that pic. Although, my angle isn't quite perfect.

You know your GA looks tiny in that first shot compared to the G6...

Yes it does... It's the same way in person too. My GA is just tiny. I like it small, but I will admit that even I feel a bit cramped in its interior. Especially now that I've had to wear my leather jacket.

This reminds me of something, though. Me and one of the salesman talked a bit about the G6 coupe. Not necessarily because I wanted to, but because he wouldn't go away and kept talking to me while I just wanted to look at it. Not that I didn't mind, though... Anyways, he tried to tell me how me how it's closer to the size of mine than the previous GA coupe. Uh.. not quite. He did say it was a grown up version of mine, which it really is the more I think about it. It's kind of evolved into the G6 coupe. It's a mix of both 4th gens and the 5th gen, but with a little Japanese mixed in. Anyways, we also talked about how it looks much better in person than in pics. He said he wasn't enthusiastic about it until he got one it. He also said that since he was used to having Pontiacs, it was wierd seeing one without a spoiler and how it's somewhat bland. Boy do I ever agree....

[Robert Hall]

I saw an '06 Civic coupe for the first time yesterday in the parking garage at work..surprised how short the nose is...it kind of has that continuous slope from the top of the windshield to the end of the hood like a Prius...

[Turbojett]

Loooove the taillights on the Milan!

[post="35968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I love the taillights on all the cars on that platform...But the Fusion's are by far, the coolest.

BV--Those GTP coupes are pretty sweet. I saw one of those for the first time at a dealer a while back.
BTW--i spy a little black Cobalt in that first pic. :)

[Cory Wolfe]

My local Brookvillian (lol) dealer finally got a G6 coupe... Pics:

[CaddyXLR-V]

What a waste. Pontiac finally gets a coupe and it looks like that. Almost looks like a stretched version of the new Civic, which is ugly also. I'd rather have the 4 door.

[Sixty8panther]

I can see that Aveo plotting it's revenge in the background.

[post="38050"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

LMAO :lol:

[ocnblu]

Goodlooking car, Vipes. Yes, I think I do see an evil glint in the blue Aveo's eyes, I mean headlights.... :o

[z28luvr01]

It is a goodlooking car. I love the way the seemingly maroon color lights up to a bright red in the sunlight. I can't wait for the covertible! I saw two G6 coupes in the dealership last night on the way home...a white one and an electric blue one :wub:. I'm gonna have to go in for a closer look sometime soon.

[Cory Wolfe]

What a waste. Pontiac finally gets a coupe and it looks like that. Almost looks like a stretched version of the new Civic, which is ugly also. I'd rather have the 4 door.

Sadly, so would I but I don't think the coupe is that bad. It just looks a little deformed, like the new Civic coupe as you mentioned. Although... I like the new Civic even though its a bit frumpy. All three are bland, though. In the G6's case, it's retarded as it has an arrowhead inbetween the twin-port grill. When you usually see an arrowhead inbetween a twin-port grill, the car is anything but bland. Wierd. To put it frankly, it needs spiced up. Coming from a hardcore fanatic... a rear spoiler (and no, not like that poser one the sedan has), whole new rears for both body-styles, ground effects, trim-specific fascias, and just a whole new more aggressive take on the design are all needed. Sorry Ocnblu, but that G6 coupe is not a Pontiac. It must take a true fanatic to see that...

Anyways, IDK. I keep going in to look at it. My feelings are mixed, moreso than before. I just can't get over some things about it... I mean, I literally have to walk around and study it to find a perspective in which it looks good. It's possible, but it should look good from almost all perspectives. The Aztek is another vehicle that suffers with this problem...

I think it's pretty much stopped growing on me and is heading in the opposite direction now.

[ocnblu]

How can I say this without sounding mean. You're too damn young to remember when Pontiacs looked good. There ya go. I had to say it. The new G6 is a return to design purity that once made Pontiac great, you know, when they were the third best selling brand in the USA? The only really goodlooking Pontiacs in your lifetime, imo, have been the '97 GP and the '00 base model Bonneville. Nice, clean designs that still managed to fully communicate what a Pontiac should be (except maybe for the FWD chassis, but that's not Pontiac's fault.)

[Croc]

:blink: :blink:

G6 isn't design purity...it is design austerity. The exterior is completely bland not because it lacks the "fork marks" down the sides, but because there is hardly ANY detailing on the exterior. No surface interest. The taillamps are flat as can be as they lack a jeweled effect. Granted there is a rub strip and the hood has a couple character lines on it, but the rest of the car just lacks real body lines and anything to hold any interest.

As far as telling BV he's too young to remember when Pontiacs looked good, first of all "good" is extremely subjective. Frankly, I think the Firebird/Trans Am models looked good even in their in-your-face, boy-racer glory. I think the 90s Sunfire looked good even though it was a POS Cavalier with better styling. I think the Montana was the best-looking of the U-bodies, and I think it looked good for a minivan. You mention the GP and Bonnie, with which I also agree. I think the 1999 N-body Grand AM looked pretty decent, too.

What appeals to a 17 year old is different than a 40-something year old. You shouldn't put down his tastes just because they are different than yours.

If you have to say "not to be ___ but..." then you probably shouldn't say it. Because it most likely is "___."

::puts on flamesuit and prepares for bitchy response(s)::

[z28luvr01]

prepares for bitchy response(s)

how's this?


I see where ocn is coming from. I don't think he meant any harm against BV. He was born during the time when Pontiac was giving all their cars the in-your-face boy racer treatment. I think some exposure to pre-1985 Pontiacs is probably essential to understand why some of us like the G6 as much as we do. Based on what he's said about his hometown, he might not get that exposure too often. This might be a good book for him to start with.

The mid-to-late 60s Pontiacs in particular were beautiful in the simplicity of their designs. Though the high-performance editions of the day (TA, Judge) got scoops, stripes, and spoilers, the cars didn't need anything tacked on to them to improve their appearance. During the mid-80s Pontiac began to rely heavily on plastic cladding to differentiate their cars from their GM cousins. Some of it was rather tasteful (Sunbird, early GAs), and some of it was rather excessive (late 90s GAs, mid 90s GPs, some Bonnes). The Firebird and 97-03 GP seemed to be exceptions to the rule, as any cladding they had was applied sparingly.

The G6 marks the abandonment of that design philosophy for a return to the 60s-era philosphy of simple clean shapes. Perhaps the reason why the G6 looks odd to some is that it was originally designed to have side strakes, sqinty cat's eye hedlights, etc before Lutz came in and made his changes (Remember that drawing of the red G6 that Cspec posted a while back that was in the G6 brochure?) I still think the G6 we got is a good car that is a few minor detail changes away from being great.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'm only 20, but I've seen many Pontiacs from the 60s and 70s. My brother had a 67 GTO, Le Mans, and Tempest a few years ago. Just because someone wasnt alive during that time, doesnt mean they didnt grow up around them. I grew up around a 52 Chevy, a 63 Impala, 27 T-bucket, 49 Ford, yet I wasnt alive when those cars were made. I still dont like the G6 coupe at all.

[Croc]

I'm only 20, but I've seen many Pontiacs from the 60s and 70s. My brother had a 67 GTO, Le Mans, and Tempest a few years ago. Just because someone wasnt alive during that time, doesnt mean they didnt grow up around them. I grew up around a 52 Chevy, a 63 Impala, 27 T-bucket, 49 Ford, yet I wasnt alive when those cars were made. I still dont like the G6 coupe at all.

[post="38536"][/post]

^^ What he said ^^

No, the G6 doesn't look odd because it is missing any of those elements; it is just that the production version is so half-baked. The concept was great. GM costcutting just got in the way. The real reason so many of you like the G6 is that, yes, the design is cleaner (a good thing), but mainly that all the obvious cost-cutting doesn't bother you. It bothers a great deal of people though. I will go so far to say the G6 interior is currently the WORST GM interior on the market. The materials are just so subpar...it's like the car is telling you "this is what you get if you cannot afford a 9-3"!

The G6 really was a missed opportunity. The exterior styling is more attractive than the Malibu...but the cheapo taillamps (really...even the 'bu has jeweled ones!), the very cheapo interior with its ONE piece of alumiplastic.....I mean just wow. The concept was so nice too.



I mean c'mon.....there is VERY little about the above picture that would not be feasible for production! Edited November 4, 2005 by Croc

[Cory Wolfe]

[quote name='ocnblu' date='Nov 4 2005, 06:01 AM']How can I say this without sounding mean.  You're too damn young to remember when Pontiacs looked good.  There ya go.  I had to say it.  The new G6 is a return to design purity that once made Pontiac great, you know, when they were the third best selling brand in the USA?  The only really goodlooking Pontiacs in your lifetime, imo, have been the '97 GP and the '00 base model Bonneville.  Nice, clean designs that still managed to fully communicate what a Pontiac should be (except maybe for the FWD chassis, but that's not Pontiac's fault.)

[post="38509"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]
I'll use quotes to reply to you...

[quote name='Croc' date='Nov 4 2005, 07:19 AM']:blink:  :blink:

G6 isn't design purity...it is design austerity.  The exterior is completely bland not because it lacks the "fork marks" down the sides, but because there is hardly ANY detailing on the exterior.  No surface interest.  The taillamps are flat as can be as they lack a jeweled effect.  Granted there is a rub strip and the hood has a couple character lines on it, but the rest of the car just lacks real body lines and anything to hold any interest.[/quote]
Exactly. The Solstice is design purity. The Firehawk was design purity. The Fiero was design purity. Hell, even the 97-03 Grand Prix was design Purity. The G6 is just bland. Nothing else. I've tried my hardest to look past that. I really have... it's a good looking car and all (in sedan form that is), but there's hardly any excitement. Remove the twin-port grill and I garantee it could be just about anything, even a Toyota. It's the same with the coupe, except it borders on ugly. It's like someone tried to mix American and Japanese design together while keeping it more watered-down than each. And as with the sedan, remove the grill and it could be anything. The Pontiac styling cues I've grown to love are all gone. And no, I'm not talking about cladding. Cladding is bad, it always was and I never liked it.

[quote]As far as telling BV he's too young to remember when Pontiacs looked good, first of all "good" is extremely subjective. 

What appeals to a 17 year old is different than a 40-something year old.  You shouldn't put down his tastes just because they are different than yours.[/quote]
Bingo... what looks good to a true Pontiac fanatic and what looks to good to someone who currently owns a Colorado and previously owned a Beetle (Sorry, I just had to throw that in here. No offense...) are going to be entirely different. Now for my next reply...

[quote name='z28luvr01' date='Nov 4 2005, 09:47 AM']I see where ocn is coming from. I don't think he meant any harm against BV. He was born during the time when Pontiac was giving all their cars the in-your-face boy racer treatment. I think some exposure to pre-1985 Pontiacs is probably essential to understand why some of us like the G6 as much as we do. Based on what he's said about his hometown, he might not get that exposure too often. This might be a good book for him to start with.[/quote]
You act like I don't know what pre-88 Pontiacs looked like.... :blink: :rolleyes:

Come on, stop fooling yourselves. I've seen most significant Pontiacs from the past at classic cars shows or by occasion. If I haven't seen it in person, I've seen it on the internet or in a book. I love to study history and especially Pontiac's. Therefore, I think I know Pontiacs from 50s, 60s, and 70s look like. Uh... duh!

[quote]The G6 marks the abandonment of that design philosophy for a return to the 60s-era philosphy of simple clean shapes. Perhaps the reason why the G6 looks odd to some is that it was originally designed to have side strakes, sqinty cat's eye hedlights, etc before Lutz came in and made his changes (Remember that drawing of the red G6 that Cspec posted a while back that was in the G6 brochure?) I still think the G6 we got is a good car that is a few minor detail changes away from being great.

[post="38534"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]
No, it's the watering down of Lutz... not a return to 60s-era design philosophy.

Anyways Ocnblu... I don't have sales figures for foreign makes, trucks, nor post 1995 ones for anything, but regardless Ford and Chevy always outsold Pontiac. The only American brands to outsell Pontiac in the late 80s and early 90s was Ford and Chevy. I'd also like to point out that back when Pontiac was third in the 60s, it didn't have much foreign competition like it has since the 80s. So, what's your point? Really?

Finally, again I have to point out that you are not a true Pontiac fanatic. No offense meant, of course. You just aren't and my motto is that only true Pontiac fans know what Pontiac needs. You've probably heard it before and now you're hearing it again. Is the G6 what Pontiac needs? No. Was the past Grand Am what Pontiac needed? Not quite, but atleast it was full of aggressive, attitude, and excitement. It had its own soul; it was unique, it wasn't bland. Just like Pontiacs of the past... the big difference being that it achieved it in a different way. But, regardless of the excessive plastic and such it was as true a Pontiac as the General would let Pontiac have. The G6, I think not. You are just too busy looking at the lack of cladding, ground effects, a spoiler and that it has the signature twin-port grill. You overlook the rest just because your so glad that those things are absent on a Pontiac. That's it, IMO.

[quote name='Croc' date='Nov 4 2005, 12:05 PM']No, the G6 doesn't look odd because it is missing any of those elements; it is just that the production version is so half-baked.  The concept was great.  GM costcutting just got in the way.  The real reason so many of you like the G6 is that, yes, the design is cleaner (a good thing), but mainly that all the obvious cost-cutting doesn't bother you.  It bothers a great deal of people though.  I will go so far to say the G6 interior is currently the WORST GM interior on the market.  The materials are just so subpar...it's like the car is telling you "this is what you get if you cannot afford a 9-3"!

The G6 really was a missed opportunity.  The exterior styling is more attractive than the Malibu...but the cheapo taillamps (really...even the 'bu has jeweled ones!), the very cheapo interior with its ONE piece of alumiplastic.....I mean just wow.  The concept was so nice too.

[post="38575"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]
Okay... I think that's taking it too far. The little difference between the concept and production is hardly feasible. I don't get why this isn't obvious. The only real changes to the exterior were: toned done wheel flares, smaller wheel watered down wheels, more upright rear fascia, more useful greenhouse, bigger mirrors, added rub strip, black lower intakes and a smaller less tacky grill. Oooh... Wow.... So different! Frankly, the concept isn't much better than the The interior, however, barely even looks similar. A very bad thing, of course. But to say that its the worst interior on the market?!?!?!?!? Please tell me you're kidding. It's better than atleast half of the vehicle's GM sells including just about every SUV and pickup and alot of cars. Material wise, the interior isn't that bad not that the center-stack is done in the same material as the rest of the dash, which is better the Malibu, Impala, etc... Design wise, the only real problem is the the overall lack of metal trim as well as the center stack and center console. Fix those and you have a winner, IMO.

[ocnblu]

If Pontiac goes back to tacky design it will be a grave mistake. They'll be laughed out of existence. Yes, the Solstice is design purity, I forgot to mention it. I stand by what I said about the G6.

BV, I've owned twice as many Pontiacs as you have... HA! :AH-HA_wink: I've owned 2. I love these new, cleaner Pontiacs and hope they continue on the path they're on... CLEAN IS GOOD.

[Croc]

I said it is the worst GM interior on the market. I don't really think it is any better than the GMT-800s, which as far as I'm concerned don't count now that the new ones are almost out. The GMT-800s were released in 1999. The G6 was released in 2004. Again, the concept shines because of its attention to detail, which is the main differentiator between it and the production G6, exterior-wise.

[z28luvr01]

You act like I don't know what pre-88 Pontiacs looked like.... 

Come on, stop fooling yourselves. I've seen most significant Pontiacs from the past at classic cars shows or by occasion. If I haven't seen it in person, I've seen it on the internet or in a book. I love to study history and especially Pontiac's. Therefore, I think I know Pontiacs from 50s, 60s, and 70s look like. Uh... duh!

Sorry about that. I gathered from your responses in the "Car Spotting" threads that exotics and classics very rarely come your way. IIRC, you once said that a Camaro or Firebird sighting is as "special" as car sightings get around your nek of the woods. I apologize for my remarks.

I stand firm in my beliefs on the G6 though. Just so you know, my favorite Pontiac of all time is the 1967-68 Firebird. That car was bold and aggressive, yet classy. I see at least an attempt of that in the G6. As I've been saying all along, though, it's the details that GM really screwed up: the clear lense taillights, the rub strip in the middle of nowhere, the chrome molding along the beltline...all of that stuff takes away from the G6's appearance.

Here is a sketch of what the pre-Lutz G6 was going to look like:

I admit that I like that snout and the wheels, but the rest of the car looks like, well, disjointed. The strakes on the side (which most likely would have been accomplished with cladding) draw extra attention to the beltline, which really needs to be hidden as much as possible (a la the yellow SEMA concept) because it's the worst aspect of both this G6 and the one we got. The line along the rear quarter looks interesting, though it's hard to tell where they were going with this sketch.

[Cory Wolfe]

If Pontiac goes back to tacky design it will be a grave mistake.  They'll be laughed out of existence.  Yes, the Solstice is design purity, I forgot to mention it.  I stand by what I said about the G6.

BV, I've owned twice as many Pontiacs as you have... HA!  :AH-HA_wink: I've owned 2.  I love these new, cleaner Pontiacs and hope they continue  on the path they're on... CLEAN IS GOOD.

[post="38723"][/post]

I'm not suggesting a return to what you call "tacky". I just want to see some excitement, which the G6 doesn't have much of. It has potential as I've said in the past. My suggestions: replace the ugly black-plastic ground effects with some flared body-color ones for GT/GTP, make dual tipped exhaust standard for GT, add sportier lower grills with non-projector foglights, remove the body-side rub strips, paint new sportier mirrors body-color, black out chrome along beltline and around grill, whole new rear fascia lifted straight from the concept for sedan, lower curvier beltline and whole new rear for coupe, tinted taillight lenses, bumper mounted reverse lights, larger rear spoiler for GT/GTP, replace all wheels except GTP's with more athletic looking ones, and finally replace the hideous center stack and center console. :D

Anyways, there is a difference between clean and bland. I hope you realize that. I'm all for clean designs, but not bland. I will, however, take a bland design over an ugly design. Bland and ugly is even worse.... The coupe isn't that, but its bordering on it.

Sorry about that. I gathered from your responses in the "Car Spotting" threads that exotics and classics very rarely come your way. IIRC, you once said that a Camaro or Firebird  sighting is as "special" as car sightings get around your nek of the woods. I apologize for my remarks.

Yes... I hardly see any vehicles that way. I do, however, go to those things called "car shows" when I can. Brookville hosts a few every year where they close down Main Street.

I stand firm in my beliefs on the G6 though. Just so you know, my favorite Pontiac of all time is the 1967-68 Firebird. That car was bold and aggressive, yet classy.

Personally, I just see it as a sportier Camaro. Kind of like most Pontiacs and they're Chevrolet siblings from that era. I mean, they're not rebadges by any means, but it is so blatantly obvious that they're related. I'm not a fan of that as I like designs to be 100% unique. But it seems the General is doing it more now than when they were called-out for it. Back to the Firebird... the 4th gen was more original with less parts shared with the Camaro.

Here is a sketch of what the pre-Lutz G6 was going to look like:

I admit that I like that snout and the wheels, but the rest of the car looks like, well, disjointed. The strakes on the side (which most likely would have been accomplished with cladding) draw extra attention to the beltline, which really needs to be hidden as much as possible (a la the yellow SEMA concept) because it's the worst aspect of both this G6 and the one we got. The line along the rear quarter looks interesting, though it's hard to tell where they were going with this sketch.

[post="38750"][/post]

Yeah... I've seen it before as well as the prototype photos. There are certain aspects of it I hate, but overall it's a better attempt than the G6 as it doesn't look watered-down and bland. Mainly its that droopy ass...

[CaddyXLR-V]

If Pontiac goes back to tacky design it will be a grave mistake.  They'll be laughed out of existence.  Yes, the Solstice is design purity, I forgot to mention it.  I stand by what I said about the G6.

BV, I've owned twice as many Pontiacs as you have... HA!  :AH-HA_wink: I've owned 2.  I love these new, cleaner Pontiacs and hope they continue  on the path they're on... CLEAN IS GOOD.

[post="38723"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I owned 50% more than you :P I've owned 3

[CaddyXLR-V]

And yes clean is good, but Japanese knockoff, is not.

[Bimmer325]

That lower front-fascia and a more sober application of those headlamps are the only exterior design aspects I would've liked to see on the production G6. I'm a huge fan of the production model rear of the headlights. It's the nose that gives the car such a bland presence. However, I think the current taillamps would benefit GREATLY from a jeweled or even LED treatment. The flat red look we have now is bland, dated and lends little flair to the overall design IMO.

[Chris_Doane]

Ugh...the rear of the G6 coupe is just akward. I saw a prototype testing a while back and when I first saw it I thought maybe the rear had some weird fake panels on it or something. It didn't.

[Flybrian]

The only really goodlooking Pontiacs in your lifetime, imo, have been the '97 GP and the '00 base model Bonneville. 

[post="38509"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm going to chime in and disagree about the base Bonneville looking real great. I assume you mean because it doesn't have the tusk foglamps and ass-heavy sideskirts of the SLE/SSEi. I'll give you that, but I counter with the lousy single exhaust setup, and lack of spolier on some super base SEs.

I would then argue the GXP is the second-best-looking Bonnie of all time and best overall.

Best-looking is the '57. Some cars have rockets in the back, some have 'rockets' under the hood (Olds), but the '57 had a Rocket on the side of the car! C'mon, how cool is that?

[NOS2006]

I would then argue the GXP is the second-best-looking Bonnie of all time and best overall.

[post="39150"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yep. For sure. Saw one today in black and couldn't keep my eyes off it.

[ocnblu]

The GXP is the best looking last-gen Bonneville, you're right about that. (I was referring to the first year of the design to pinpoint it). Too late to save her though, unfortunately. Yes, the single exhaust is kind of weenie on the base model car, but I like the fascias and lack of overwrought side strakes on the base car... and I like the spoilerless decklid too, although the flat, factory spoiler was tasteful and complimentary.

My local dealer has two leftover Bonneville GXPs, white diamond and dark blue, that he rotates to the front lawn of the showroom, in hopes of finding buyers... sad. Edited November 6, 2005 by ocnblu

[Cory Wolfe]

and lack of overwrought side strakes on the base car...

Blu... I think just about everyone does... :P

and I like the spoilerless decklid too, although the flat, factory spoiler was tasteful and complimentary.

The G6 carries on the Grand Am's trait of looking horrible without a spoiler. If you're that blind to not see this... I'm speechless. :blink:

Anyways, now that I know you think the 00-05 Bonne and the 97-03 Grand Prix were the only two Pontiacs you find attractive during my life, you've lost a bit of my respect. No offense, ofcourse. My favorite Pontiacs of all time have pretty much been in my lifetime. Fiero (just barely, but in it), Grand Am (4th and 5th gens), Firebird (3rd and 4th gens), etc... Ugh, how dare you!?!?!? :D

Also, to explain on the true fanatical status... It's not how many Pontiacs you own, but the type of vehicle you own regardless of brand. Any truck pretty much eliminates the possibility to be one and a car like the Beetle... I'm not even going to try to explain that one. It's just obvious if you know what I mean. All that and other certain things about your attitude. Stuff like that...

[ocnblu]

There's a Fiero GT for sale in the latest local "Auto Locator". I like the Fiero, I thought you knew that. And if you're talking Firebirds, I prefer the Formula to the Trans Am because it's got the power, but doesn't holler about it. If you're talking about the '99-'05 GA, I have to say... I prefer an SE coupe in that really cool bright blue color, with no spoiler, but with GT taillights, cool rims, intake and exhaust. Pontiac made a really cool, spoilerless GA concept that I really like but haven't seen in a while. I hate the ugly-ass, finned spoiler on the last-gen GAs. It's like science fiction from the 1950's.

When the Beetle came out in 1998, it hadn't been assigned a sexual identity yet, ha. My silver/gray '98 reminded me of a baby Porsche, and it, like all VWs, had a sense of solidity and a driving feel that's unique and awesome. I still like VWs, although I don't like their stupid upmarket push. I want to see a new GTI... soon.

I stopped by my local Pontiac dealer again today. They have a GP GXP in maroon and it is awesome... $31k though. I like the fender vents that bring to mind the '70s Trans Am... but I'd like to see the Solstice's fender scallop with arrowhead on all new Pontiacs... I think it's very cool looking.

WTF is wrong with my attitude? HUH??? :P

[Cory Wolfe]

There's a Fiero GT for sale in the latest local "Auto Locator".  I like the Fiero, I thought you knew that.

Well... I thought you liked alot of things that appearantly you don't.

And if you're talking Firebirds, I prefer the Formula to the Trans Am because it's got the power, but doesn't holler about it.

That's where we differ the most, I'd say. Sleepers are cool and all, but when I think of Pontiac... the last thing on my mind are sleepers.

If you're talking about the '99-'05 GA, I have to say... I prefer an SE coupe in that really cool bright blue color, with no spoiler, but with GT taillights, cool rims, intake and exhaust.  Pontiac made a really cool, spoilerless GA concept that I really like but haven't seen in a while.  I hate the ugly-ass, finned spoiler on the last-gen GAs.  It's like science fiction from the 1950's.

Hehehe... kind of like my mom's 00 GA SE, just with mods...

Anyways, I still think GAs look absolutely disgusting without a spoiler. It's just one of those vehicles. I don't know what it is about it. Most cars don't look all that bad without spoilers, I admit, but the GA and the G6 look horrible without them. I will agree that the finned spoiler was a poor decision, but I think the later SC/T accessory one was perfect. Wish it was standard...

When the Beetle came out in 1998, it hadn't been assigned a sexual identity yet, ha.  My silver/gray '98 reminded me of a baby Porsche, and it, like all VWs, had a sense of solidity and a driving feel that's unique and awesome.  I still like VWs, although I don't like their stupid upmarket push.  I want to see a new GTI... soon.

Now, Blu... did I say anything about a sexual identity? I don't think so... besides, Sunfires are like the most popular chick car... ever. :D

WTF is wrong with my attitude?  HUH???

You had to complicate things by asking, didn't you? :P

It's hard to explain. It really is... PM me if you really have to know and I'll try to explain it the best I can. Edited November 7, 2005 by blackviper8891