Yet another Zeta bites the dust?

[Robert Hall]

So, what exactly was this car to be?

Was it the car that would slot above the CTS effectively replacing both the STS and DTS (Since the CTS is basically STS sized anyway) or was it the 7 series competitor?

Maybe I'm biased, but I'm not looking forward to a Cadillac line up that's too small for me to fit in and that doesn't at least feature optional V8 powertrains (which is mistake #1... Cadillac is to be the standard, yet it can't have V8s?)

I don't like the idea of Cadillac not having a proper 4000+lb, RWD V8 luxury sedan larger than the CTS. The big league brands aren't likely to give up their V8 sedans... they can get rid of the Escalade, I couldn't care less for that nonsense, but they need a good, solid world-class STS replacement.

Edited August 8, 2008 by moltar

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I don't like the idea of Cadillac not having a proper RWD V8 luxury sedan larger than the CTS. The big league brands aren't likely to give up their V8 sedans...

I have a feeling that GM has something up it's sleeve with the new LS motors (next gen, that is)

However, I also have a feeling that they'll find some way to screw it up.

[97regalGS]

this is just further prrof that GM is in far worse shape than any of us had expected.

sadly reality is, that they don't have a clue, let alone a plan, to drag themselves out of the mess they are in. There is no significant product right now or arrivng shortly that will make an impact. not one.

as for Cadillac - fast forward 2 years and what have you got? Cadillac with the CTS, and new SRX and old leftover STS, DTS and XLR or none of those 3, and the lame duck Escalade. (a lambda Cadillac is likely, but not too soon.)

Cadillac is going to end up like Buick and Pontiac, with only a few lines to sell.

Does everyone still thing that GM can keep 8 brands alive and kicking with sub-20% market share?

[buyacargetacheck]

I did. And I'm merely an armchair analyst not getting paid for his musings. How is it that a guy like me can do a little reading, a little thinking and understand, yet GM (and others) miss the trend entirely despite employing six figure "economists?" No need to answer the question -- I already know the answer. Here's an example of what I've written here. I was probably a little premature on the PBG dealer small sedan thing, but I still believe that's coming. There were other posts previously but they seem to be missing...

US Should Get Pursuit

The US should get the Pursuit.

I know, I know. Pontiac isn't about economy, it's about performance. Hear me out. The problem is that the US and rest of world are about to enter a permanent geology-driven energy crisis that will make the political energy crises of 1973 and 1979 look like blips on the radar screens. Google "peak oil" for further explanation. Within a year, Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers will be howling for a low-priced, high mileage sedan as buyers get more practical. SUV and V-8 sales (even with DOD) will stagnate. GM should be working on getting a 1.8L (or smaller) engine available for the Pursuit (and Cobalt) that will get at least 30mpg in the city. P/B/G dealers will be grateful to have such an offering much like Buick dealers were to have Opels to sell in 1974. Speaking of Buick, this energy crisis may be the catalyst that finally kills Buick. Buick has neither enough prestige to attract the truly wealthy buyers whose buying patterns will be least affected nor the economical choices for the rest of us still buying cars.

This post has been edited by buyacargetacheck: Sep 1 2005, 10:26 AM

I can't believe no one saw that their wasn't much of a future growth potential for 5000-6000lb bloat beasts.

[Satty]

Interesting..I knew in Europe they FWD models, but I thought in the US Audi was now all Quattro.

The A3, TT, A4 Cabriolet and base A6 are the only FWD Audis you can still buy. It seems a FWD A4 sedan/Avant would be a good way to lower the price and compete with the ES.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Does everyone still thing that GM can keep 8 brands alive and kicking with sub-20% market share?

Yep...

They just need to STICK to a plan instead of wasting billions on plans that they abort half way through.

[Lamar]

The A3, TT, A4 Cabriolet and base A6 are the only FWD Audis you can still buy. It seems a FWD A4 sedan/Avant would be a good way to lower the price and compete with the ES.

I agree with you. It's strange that only one A4 bodystyle comes with FWD now... could it be a gradual phaseout?

[Northstar]

A full size rwd Cadillac would only have to be 2 inches longer than an STS. The 7-series and Lexus LS are that length. The current DTS is too large.

Jaguar XJ is 3,770 pounds, lighter than a base CTS, over 200 pounds less than a G8, and it is bigger than either car and has more equipment in it.

Although I agree that some of the safety stuff is overkill, it just makes for heavier cars.

The body of the XJ is also all-aluminum, if I'm not mistaken. According to autoaluminum.org, aluminum saves about 17% over steel, meaning a 4000lb steel car would weigh around 3320lbs.

[97regalGS]

Yep...

They just need to STICK to a plan instead of wasting billions on plans that they abort half way through.

you've got to be kidding me.

[Robert Hall]

I agree with you. It's strange that only one A4 bodystyle comes with FWD now... could it be a gradual phaseout?

Well, the A4 cabrio is being replaced soon by the A5 cabrio...probably will be AWD only (I think the A5 coupe is).

[Lamar]

Well, the A4 cabrio is being replaced soon by the A5 cabrio...probably will be AWD only (I think the A5 coupe is).

That is correct.

Speaking of which, the A5/S5 is one of the sexiest new cars I've seen. I hope it doesn't lose anything in 'vert form.

[Robert Hall]

That is correct.

Speaking of which, the A5/S5 is one of the sexiest new cars I've seen. I hope it doesn't lose anything in 'vert form.

It looks great in the spy pics I've seen...same car from the beltline down. I love the A5 styling.

[gm4life]

Honestly if they sell 30K a year there is a market for them. And in the luxury car world 30K unit isn't bad. For Cadillac that is a solid performer. No it doesn't have the sales it once did the segment is getting smaller but there is still demand and merit for such a car. That is why Cadillac needs to keep it, and give it a CTS-ish redesign with a 6spd. automatic and a 325-350hp V8 with a wider front track and tires they would be set. How about an LS4 under the hood?

[Satty]

The A5 is amazing in pictures, I haven't seen it in person yet. It may even be better looking than the 6er.

[Robert Hall]

The A5 is amazing in pictures, I haven't seen it in person yet. It may even be better looking than the 6er.

To me, it looks better than the 6 series. I was dissapointed by the 6 series bangled styling. Over the last few years, my interest in German cars has moved from BMW more to Audi....with the A8, A5, R8, etc, I'm really attracted to them more..

[Satty]

I think the 650 is pretty good, but the M6 is amazing.

[SingleStylish]

That is correct.

Speaking of which, the A5/S5 is one of the sexiest new cars I've seen. I hope it doesn't lose anything in 'vert form.

The A5/S5 are both RWD.

[Robert Hall]

The A5/S5 are both RWD.

No. FWD/AWD, like Audis usually are.

Edited August 13, 2008 by moltar

[A Horse With No Name]

The RL doesn't even stack up to the sales of used Seville STSes..... it's a non-starter.

+1

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

To me, it looks better than the 6 series. I was dissapointed by the 6 series bangled styling. Over the last few years, my interest in German cars has moved from BMW more to Audi....with the A8, A5, R8, etc, I'm really attracted to them more..

The old E-30 style cars (the 80's era small BMW's) were way cool and I still want to find one and fix it up. However, I'm with you on the newer stuff. Audi just has its act together, and VW is really getting there.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

True that....

.... Well, it'd help if GM actually knew how to market the (ANY OF THEIR) effing cars.

Amazing that Astra for example is the best selling car in Europe but they can't give them away here...and it is a damned good car.

I really think the best of the new GM (Astra, Aura, Sky, Solstice, G8, CTS, Cobalt SS TC, HHR, Enclave, Outlook, GMT 900 et all) is awesome product. Gm has done a wonderful job with the product itself, now let us get it into the hands of people who have money and need cars.

Chris

Edited August 13, 2008 by 66Stang

[SingleStylish]

No. FWD/AWD, like Audis usually are.

No really, check again. The NG A5/S5 combo are RWD.

Just went to Audi's website. Both are AWD and RWD biased.

Edited August 14, 2008 by SingleStylish

[Robert Hall]

No really, check again. The NG A5/S5 combo are RWD.

Just went to Audi's website. Both are AWD and RWD biased.

RWD biased AWD is not the same as pure RWD. They are also available in Europe in FWD versions. Hell of a car nonetheless.

Edited August 14, 2008 by moltar

[ZL-1]

The A5 is amazing in pictures, I haven't seen it in person yet. It may even be better looking than the 6er.

The A5 is a beauty IMO.

[Robert Hall]

The A5 is a beauty IMO.

Saw a black one today when I went to lunch..love the lines. Saw a silver-blue R8 as well...

[The O.C.]

No really, check again. The NG A5/S5 combo are RWD.

Just went to Audi's website. Both are AWD and RWD biased.

Someone may have beat me to this.....but all Audi's, including the A5/S5 are front-wheel-drive or front-wheel-drive-based AWD.

With the A5 and S5 (and new A4) Audi, on the Quattro AWD models, the power split is about 40% front and 60% rear. In other words, normally, slightly more power is being directed to the rear wheels.

However, the vehicles are still based upon front-wheel-drivetrains.

[Lamar]

Someone may have beat me to this.....but all Audi's, including the A5/S5 are front-wheel-drive or front-wheel-drive-based AWD.

With the A5 and S5 (and new A4) Audi, on the Quattro AWD models, the power split is about 40% front and 60% rear. In other words, normally, slightly more power is being directed to the rear wheels.

However, the vehicles are still based upon front-wheel-drivetrains.

Even the A8 is a FWD platform.