Cars GM needs now

[enzl]

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/autos/...duct/index.html

[daves87rs]

He does make some good points..

As much as I hate to admit it...the wave needs to come here.

It is a cheap and easy fix that will make GM money....for cooler Pontiac products.....

[Northstar]

The article or whatever you want to call it would have been much more interesting if he listed more than one vehicle per brand, and if half of them weren't already known to be production vehicles.

[Northstar]

He does make some good points..

As much as I hate to admit it...the wave needs to come here.

It is a cheap and easy fix that will make GM money....for cooler Pontiac products.....

I don't see any need for the Wave... the Aveo already has no advertising as it is and doesn't sell all that well compared to other vehicles in its class, last I checked.

[gm4life]

They sold 67,000 Aveo's last year that is pretty good I think.

[cire]

He does make some good points..

As much as I hate to admit it...the wave needs to come here.

It is a cheap and easy fix that will make GM money....for cooler Pontiac products.....

It might make money for GM, but it will further damage Pontiac's brand image.

As far as waiting for cooler Pontiac products...I'm tired of holding my breath in anticipation of products that never materialize.

Best car scenario for Pontiac would be for them to create a RWD 2+2 subcompact 3-door/5-door on a modified Kappa platform or a shortened Alpha platform. I doubt this would seriously ever happen since it is obvious that GM just basically intends to continue to stuff Pontiac's lineup with "twin-nostrilized" rebadged Chevy clone products.

[Northstar]

They sold 67,000 Aveo's last year that is pretty good I think.

The Fit sold 12k last month compared to 7k for the Aveo. Aveo is at 38k for the year compared to the Fit's 52k, and the only reason the Fit isn't selling better is because they can't produce enough of them. Aveo has/had incentives (with $4/gallon gas, that is ridiculous for such a cheap car to need incentives), while the Fit could sell for over sticker. I can't recall the last time I saw a Fit on the dealer's lot here...

[smk4565]

Practically 50% of GM's lineup needs replaced, one vehicle per brand won't do a thing. Buick got the Enclave, Saturn got 5 new models, Pontiac got the G8 and Solstice, Cadillac got the CTS, and all those brands are down over the last couple years. The problem is how does a cash strapped company get that much competitive product out and learn how to make money on small vehicles, which they have yet to be able to do.

I don't like the Wave/G3 idea, if Pontiac is just going to be a cheaped out chevy rebadge, don't even bother with the brand. I disagree with the guy that the new SSRX will be a better crossover, front drive on an Equinox platform is not better than rear drive on a CTS platform.

[smk4565]

The Fit sold 12k last month compared to 7k for the Aveo. Aveo is at 38k for the year compared to the Fit's 52k, and the only reason the Fit isn't selling better is because they can't produce enough of them. Aveo has/had incentives (with $4/gallon gas, that is ridiculous for such a cheap car to need incentives), while the Fit could sell for over sticker. I can't recall the last time I saw a Fit on the dealer's lot here...

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

[Northstar]

Practically 50% of GM's lineup needs replaced, one vehicle per brand won't do a thing. Buick got the Enclave, Saturn got 5 new models, Pontiac got the G8 and Solstice, Cadillac got the CTS, and all those brands are down over the last couple years. The problem is how does a cash strapped company get that much competitive product out and learn how to make money on small vehicles, which they have yet to be able to do.

I don't like the Wave/G3 idea, if Pontiac is just going to be a cheaped out chevy rebadge, don't even bother with the brand. I disagree with the guy that the new SSRX will be a better crossover, front drive on an Equinox platform is not better than rear drive on a CTS platform.

I agree the platform probably won't be as good for the new SRX (I would be surprised if it is not AWD standard), that doesn't mean it won't be more a more successful product in the marketplace.

[Robert Hall]

He does make some good points..

As much as I hate to admit it...the wave needs to come here.

It is a cheap and easy fix that will make GM money....for cooler Pontiac products.....

If they sell the Wave here, they could also do a luxo version for Buick, sell it as the Skyhawk. And beefed-up Hummer H5 version. (with big chrome grille, off-road looking fender flares, etc).

[thegriffon]

The Aveo is still #3 in the segment, not far behind the Yaris recently. Sales have remained strong and are still growing, despite now being the oldest model, in an increasingly crowded segment. If they can maintain sales growth with the facelift and new engines they'll be doing well. What they really need is the new model due soon enough. If they add the Groove, upsized to a B-MPV like the Cube Cubic and former xB; Corsa and 9-1, they'll have a strong lineup. A Luxury (not sporting) model for Buick is not a bad idea. Lancia does good business with the Ypsilon.

[Intrepidation]

The last thing they need is the Wave, as NorthStar pointed out, the Aveo sells less than the Fit, with incentives and high gas prices...it's just too mediocre. The last thing we need is another rebadge of a half-assed product.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Because of high gas prices, Hummer is really on the outs these days.Sales are truly nominal. But if gas eventually stabilizes and even comes back down a bit, GM might regret selling Hummer.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because the economy is bleak now, doesn't mean you have to be irrational and dump underperforming brands. I'm assuming most Hummer dealerships are associated with other GM brands, so if GM keeps Hummer and in the meantime refocuses them to have more fuel efficient off-road capable trucks (either dump the big old gas hogs or limit their production numbers to be a truly niche vehicle), sales might stablize enough. It would be a good idea to pair Hummer with Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealers, as it seems those brands are niche players in GM's eyes. The Hx/H4 and the H3 lineup could do well for GM, and when money returns or other new GM trucks are being considered, Hummer can add where needed.

[Intrepidation]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because the economy is bleak now, doesn't mean you have to be irrational and dump underperforming brands. I'm assuming most Hummer dealerships are associated with other GM brands, so if GM keeps Hummer and in the meantime refocuses them to have more fuel efficient off-road capable trucks (either dump the big old gas hogs or limit their production numbers to be a truly niche vehicle), sales might stablize enough. It would be a good idea to pair Hummer with Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealers, as it seems those brands are niche players in GM's eyes. The Hx/H4 and the H3 lineup could do well for GM, and when money returns or other new GM trucks are being considered, Hummer can add where needed.

If GM were to keep Hummer they need to realize it will now and most likely forever be a low volume, niche brand. Since the brand is very focused and has a clear purpose, it's easy to make it work if it can stay focused and not be expected to be a volume brand. It also doesn't have to be about massive offroaders either...only urbanites who slapped 26" wheels on them bought the H2's anyway, or at least a large chunk of teh slaes were to them. Make them smaller, and more feul efficient, and throw some diesels in. Small and more nimble is better for off-roading anyway.

The problem is whether or not GM has the forsight to think of this, or if the brand can survive this economic downturn.

[CSpec]

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

Ding ding ding!

[Intrepidation]

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

Wow smk, something we both agree on!

[Guest aatbloke]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because the economy is bleak now, doesn't mean you have to be irrational and dump underperforming brands.

And that sort of decision depends on how kind GM's bank manager is.

GM really has dug itself into a hole in its domestic market. It needs a range of credible B-segment and C-segment cars as it does in Europe; even though oil prices are falling, I don't think Americans will be so flippant to see it has a permanent reversal and head straight back into their leviathan SUVs. Lordstown can't churn out the bread-and-butter Cruze and its brethren soon enough, and it needs a range of engine units for US punters to choose from. The budget B-segment Aveo won't cut it against modern rivals in the market segment, yet the next-gen Corsa which is reputedly spated for North America is still three years away. That isn't good enough. The Beat A-segment city car would also be a useful addition and appeal to city dwellers currently ordering Smart ForTwos in droves.

With clean diesel technology moving into the US courtesy of BMW, Mercedes and Honda, GM really ought to get in on the act in a more proactive fashion. Hybrid and clean-diesel variants of cars such as the Malibu, Cruze and HHR such as those reputedly being fitted to the mk6 Astra would no doubt win North American friends. The Volt is a good move, but its price tag may direct it only to a very niche market at the present time.

Edited August 5, 2008 by aatbloke

[smk4565]

I agree the platform probably won't be as good for the new SRX (I would be surprised if it is not AWD standard), that doesn't mean it won't be more a more successful product in the marketplace.

The new SRX will probably sell better because it will be cheaper. Plus the GMT360s will be about gone, so the Equinox/SRX/9-4x will be GMs only midsize SUVs. The Lexus RX and Lincoln MKX have front wheel drive standard so Cadillac may go front wheel for low cost and higher mileage but front drive doesn't help Cadillac's image any. There is a new Lexus RX out next year, plus the Mercedes GLK and new X3 are coming soon, so the SRX better be good. Although I think it will be what the Lincoln MKX is to the Ford Edge, and just a fancy Equinox. Acura and Lexus have seen sales declines with their entry level models, you'd think they and GM would learn you can't challenge the Germans with a front drive, fancy Honda or Chevy.

[BuddyP]

http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/28/no-to-beat-b...within-2-years/

Since the massive gas price and economy fueled shift started in the North American auto market, all the automakers are scrambling to stop building trucks and start building fuel efficient cars.

The Chevy Beat approved for oversees production seemed like it would be a good fit for this new US market, but couldn’t make it here because it wasn’t built to US crash and safety standards.

Today, Chevy Brand Manager Ed Peper told Automotive News, that GM will be bringing one of the Beat’s two sister cars to North America.

The other two siblings are called Trax and Groove, and per Mr. Peper, "of the triplets, we will get one of those variants." As to which of the two would come he said "I don’t want to say at this point."

To meet US requirements the mini car would have to be a bit longer that the Beat is, and will arrive here "in the next couple of years."

If this car is to replace the Aveo, it will be more stylish says GM VP of design Ed Wellburn.

[cire]

I am going to step around the trainwreck that is Pontiac and avoid discussing the validity of supporting or keeping Hummer and focus on some of the General's other brands in regards to small vehicles.

Chevrolet:

This division needs replacements for the Aveo and Cobalt as soon as possible. The Aveo replacement should be a subcompact sedan and coupe built on the Gamma platform with styling influenced by the Beat Concept (I think the "Nova" name should be resurrected for this vehicle). A subcompact 5-door mini-crossover based on the Groove concept and built on the Gamma platform would be a nice addition to the lineup; it should supplement the Aveo replacement in the lineup instead of being the sole replacement for the Aveo as some reports have indicated.

The Cruze sedan seems to be a nice, competitive replacement for the Cobalt (although I would prefer that they resurrect the "Monza" name for this car). It will be interesting to see what the coupe version will look like. A compact 5-door mini-crossover should also be developed to replace the HHR (I would resurrect the "Nomad" name for this car).

As great as I hope the Volt will be, I do hope GM doesn't pin their entire future on the success of this product. It will be beyond the budget of many buyers, so GM still needs nice small car alternatives to supplement this product.

Saturn:

I like the idea of offering rebadged Opels in the U.S. (although I still wonder if Saturn's former position in the market makes it the best choice to do this). If GM is committed to doing this, they do need representatives from Saturn involved in the development process of Opel's products to avoid the glitches that have prevented the Astra from being successful in the U.S. (lack of power and minor niceties that U.S. customers expect in their cars; there is no reason why the Cobalt should be more powerful than this car). The cars also need to be assembled in North America in order to avoid the exchange rate issues that have also affected the success of the imported Astra. I would like to see the next generation Corsa (3-door/5-door/maybe "TwinTop" roadster - Tigra replacement absorbed into the Corsa lineup to save marketing costs), Astra (3-door/5-door/sedan/maybe "TwinTop" coupe), Meriva (Gamma based MPV), and Zafira (Delta based MPV) all become North American built additions to Saturn's lineup. I would like to see the MPVs become Saturn exclusives, but I think GM is also developing versions for Chevrolet (which I think should stick to the "mini-crossover" idea).

Buick:

The next gen LaCrosse (hopefully renamed "Invicta") should do a lot to improve Buick's fortunes in the U.S., but the brand still needs a quality compact car to slot in below this nice new midsize sedan. I think Buick should receive a nice compact sedan and coupe built off the SWB Epsilon II platform (Delta should be limited to Chevrolet, Saturn, and maybe Pontiac in the U.S.).

Buick could also use at least 1 sub-Enclave size crossover. This becomes a little trickier for GM since Cadillac and GMC are both already scheduled to receive sub-Lambda based crossovers (This dilemma could be remedied by combining Buick with Cadillac. Buick could supplement Cadillac by carrying FWD luxury cars and FWD/AWD luxury crossovers. Cadillac would then be free to focus on well executed RWD luxury cars: sedans, coupes, coupe-cabrios, and wagons.).

Cadillac:

As much as Cadillac needs a proper flagship sedan to cement their "renaissance" status, I still think a compact RWD Alpha based sedan/coupe/wagon should still be a higher priority. This product is more essential for Cadillac to weather current economic market conditions than a flagship sedan.

[RBB]

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

Actually, I believe they're updating it because it's a seven-year-old design. It's only been on sale in the US since 2006, but the same basic car was first debuted in Japan in June 2001.

It is commendable that the second-gen NA version is coming so quickly as compared to the first one, and it's a credit to Honda that an older design still stacks up well against much newer North American competition, but to insinuate a 2-3 year product cycle for the fit simply because they're striving to be the best is a bit disingenuous IMO.

-RBB

Edited August 5, 2008 by RBB

[SingleStylish]

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

Don't forget to mention that it is also more fuel efficient than the competition. In this segment that is probably a larger factor than any other. Aveo BTW has the lowest fuel economy of the segment.

[Guest aatbloke]

Agreed. The 08 Fit was sold out, they are increasing production for the 2009 model, which is a new model. This is why Honda does well, the Fit was the best car in the class, and they updated it anyway so they stay #1.

The Honda Jazz/Fit first debuted in most global markets during the summer of 2001 - with minor trim updates in 2004 - which is why it has been recently replaced by a new model.

[VenSeattle]

I think Buick should receive a nice compact sedan and coupe built off the SWB Epsilon II platform (Delta should be limited to Chevrolet, Saturn, and maybe Pontiac in the U.S.).

I agree with you that Buick needs a compact sedan, but Delta II is a more premium platform than Delta. For example, the next SAAB 9-3 will be on Delta II.