First "in the wild" Hyundai Genesis Sighting

[gmcbob]

Never really thought I'd be posting this, but I saw my first Genesis last night at a "Bistro" here in Houston. It was backed against the valet parking wall (along with all the other nice Toyotas, Lexus', Infinitis, Bimmers, etc, hahahaha!) and I could see it outside the window we were standing by.

This is a bad photo - it was taken at night with a camera phone, but you can tell what it is.

I couldn't help but think as I stood by the window more or less inspecting this car; how in the world did Hyundai pull this off? Hyundai, maker of copy cat, lackluster Korean cars with a somewhat laughable reputation in America, has designed a rear wheel drive V8 luxury sedan (that is an obvious knock off of an M45), built it, marketed it, shipped them in droves to America, and bamboozled someone into paying $40,000 for it.

[gm4life]

I don't know but they ain't bad looking.

[gmcbob]

I really hate to admit this, but I actually did find it to be a pretty nice looking car (especially from the angle I was looking at it from). The front end looks stupid though, I'm not sure what they were going for with that grille. But it does look too much like an Infiniti.

Edited August 3, 2008 by gmcbob

[carman21]

I liked everything but the front grill.

[balthazar]

>>"This is a bad photo.... but you can tell what it is."<<

You've GOT to be kidding; and no one is going to know what it is with their own eyes in broad daylight!

Generica 101.

[Intrepidation]

That picture is so bad I didn't even realize there was a car in it at first.

[siegen]

I saw one a couple days ago at the local Hyundai dealership as I drove by. Didn't pay too much attention to it.

[VenSeattle]

I've seen the same one twice on the road... at first I thought it was a 1st-gen Acura RL, then a Lexus LS, but then realized it was the Genesis. Everything about the car looks nice except the grille is hideous. I'm still not comfortable giving Hyundai over $40k for a vehicle, and probably never will be...

[balthazar]

Hardly anyone felt comfortable giving hyundai whatever the azera cost- genesis should be a fraction of that.

[gmcbob]

>>"This is a bad photo.... but you can tell what it is."<<

You've GOT to be kidding; and no one is going to know what it is with their own eyes in broad daylight!

Generica 101.

All right, you can tell what it is after I give someone the hint that it's a car, outside of a window, called a Hyundai Genesis.

[pow]

My neighbor is selling his immaculate and loaded '06 GS300 for $30K... I'd much rather buy that over a base Genesis.

I'm usually not a fan of Lexus, but I do like the GS. It's not boy racer like the IS, real estate agent like the RX, or geriatric like the LS. It's exceptionally comfortable and plush inside, yet it's a proper, well-engineered RWD luxury sedan, not some glorified Camry like the ES.

[MyerShift]

The grille is the most disappointing and nasty part of the Genesis.

[vonVeezelsnider]

The grille is the most disappointing and nasty part of the Genesis.

Ya, I know, eh?

It looks like Klingon head ridges.

[turbo200]

saw one on the road the other day. reminded me of a rebuke I've wanted to post at balthazar, how right I was on how much BMW/Bangles has influenced current design in so many ways, at so many car companies, and yet he posted a little rolling on the floor icon without much of any explanation. I could sit here and post at least ten pictures and give concise reasoning and examples why I was so right, and that laughter that was so condescending and inappropriate, and ironically as time goes on, being proven wrong again and again. I just don't have the time, and am content enough knowing I see the truth.

the car has an athletic stance borrowed from the 5-series, and a rear end that is Bangle influenced, again 5-series.

Edited September 26, 2008 by turbo200

[MyerShift]

Ya, I know, eh?

It looks like Klingon head ridges.

:rotflmao:

So true!

[fightingbee]

The comcept had a decent grille, apparently they were afraid to put their own logo on the grille.

Edited October 17, 2008 by fightingbee

[smk4565]

And it is going to win North American Car of the Year.

[Sal Collaziano]

Hyundai isn't the first to do away with badges. In fact, there were NO exterior Buick badges on Riviera's.. How about Oldsmobile Aurora's? There are other examples..

Unfortunately, Hyundai makes a better full-size luxury car than Lincoln or Cadillac. That's a REAL shame. Hyundai has outclassed Cadillac at it's own game.. Unfreakingreal. It pisses me off. But facts are facts.

[smk4565]

Hyundai isn't the first to do away with badges. In fact, there were NO exterior Buick badges on Riviera's.. How about Oldsmobile Aurora's? There are other examples..

Unfortunately, Hyundai makes a better full-size luxury car than Lincoln or Cadillac. That's a REAL shame. Hyundai has outclassed Cadillac at it's own game.. Unfreakingreal. It pisses me off. But facts are facts.

Agreed. I sat in a Genesis and it was nice, it wasn't even the top of the line version. I am curious as to how they drive.

[balthazar]

turbo200- >>"...and that laughter that was so condescending and inappropriate, and ironically as time goes on, being proven wrong again and again. I just don't have the time, and am content enough knowing I see the truth."<<

I... did not... realize... that you were such the delicate flower. Let's hug.

-- -- -- -- --

Bangled bmws utilize the far-fetched named 'flame surfacing' which blended hard-edges character lines within amorphous envelopes. The profile shows zero character lines, and there's nothing I see (and i see nearly 100 BMWs daily) influenced by Bangle- even the hood reveal evoks Lincoln rather than BMW. Perhaps you were referring to the interior....

I still see a shapeless, generic blob with no design language other than maybe a few minor cribbed cues. $40 grand for complete anonymity?? I just don't see it.

Is the azera dead, or are these 2 going to be fighting for buyers in the same showroom?

Edited December 19, 2008 by balthazar

[smk4565]

I still see a shapeless, generic blob with no design language other than maybe a few minor cribbed cues. $40 grand for complete anonymity?? I just don't see it.

Is the azera dead, or are these 2 going to be fighting for buyers in the same showroom?

It is bland, but it is well equipped and performs well. Cadillac, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, Lexus, etc don't have a 375 hp V8 and 17 speaker stereo for $40 grand. Genesis is a great car in a boring package.

I think the Azera is supposed to go away when it's life cycle runs out, but it is $7,000 less than a base Genesis and front drive vs rear drive, so that isn't much overlap. Especially compared to the Malibu and Impala or Acadia/Enclave intra-dealership competition.

[Robert Hall]

It is bland, but it is well equipped and performs well. Cadillac, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, Lexus, etc don't have a 375 hp V8 and 17 speaker stereo for $40 grand. Genesis is a great car in a boring package.

I think the Azera is supposed to go away when it's life cycle runs out, but it is $7,000 less than a base Genesis and front drive vs rear drive, so that isn't much overlap. Especially compared to the Malibu and Impala or Acadia/Enclave intra-dealership competition.

Put some port holes on the front fenders, Buick badges, and waterfall grille and everyone here would be going ga-ga over it.

[Sal Collaziano]

How about $75k for complete anonymity? If people are willing to pay $75-$80k, why not $40k? As for the Azera, it really doesn't compete with the Genesis. It's much softer riding - not nearly as sporty, and not nearly as technologically advanced. Plus, not as powerful. Oh, and FWD.. It really doesn't interest the same crowd..

turbo200- >>"...and that laughter that was so condescending and inappropriate, and ironically as time goes on, being proven wrong again and again. I just don't have the time, and am content enough knowing I see the truth."<<

I... did not... realize... that you were such the delicate flower. Let's hug.

-- -- -- -- --

Bangled bmws utilize the far-fetched named 'flame surfacing' which blended hard-edges character lines within amorphous envelopes. The profile shows zero character lines, and there's nothing I see (and i see nearly 100 BMWs daily) influenced by Bangle- even the hood reveal evoks Lincoln rather than BMW. Perhaps you were referring to the interior....

I still see a shapeless, generic blob with no design language other than maybe a few minor cribbed cues. $40 grand for complete anonymity?? I just don't see it.

Is the azera dead, or are these 2 going to be fighting for buyers in the same showroom?

Edited December 19, 2008 by Sal Collaziano

[Sal Collaziano]

Cadillac doesn't have anything that's roomy, luxurious and as powerful as the Genesis at ANY price - never mind $40k.. The V-Series is far too harsh to be considered a luxurious vehicle. Also - not everybody finds the Genesis sedan boring...

It is bland, but it is well equipped and performs well. Cadillac, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, Lexus, etc don't have a 375 hp V8 and 17 speaker stereo for $40 grand. Genesis is a great car in a boring package.

I think the Azera is supposed to go away when it's life cycle runs out, but it is $7,000 less than a base Genesis and front drive vs rear drive, so that isn't much overlap. Especially compared to the Malibu and Impala or Acadia/Enclave intra-dealership competition.

[Robert Hall]

I suspect the Azera will stay around... by analogy, the Sonata is their Malibu, the Azera their LaCrosse, and the Genesis is the car Buick doesn't have but wishes it had..

Edited December 19, 2008 by moltar

[Sal Collaziano]

The Sonata is the Malibu, the Azera is the LaCrosse and the Genesis is the Lucerne (if we're talking Buicks)... I do believe the Azera is getting a major update very soon - along with the Kia Amanti - which happens to be a very nice mid-sized luxury car. I rented one for a few days...

[balthazar]

Wow- such a touchy-feely love-in for hyundai going on here ! Run right out & place yer orders, guys, yer dream sedan is here!

>>"Put some port holes on the front fenders, Buick badges, and waterfall grille and everyone here would be going ga-ga over it. "<<

Bull&#036;h&#33;. Everyone here would be moaning that it's not a Buick. And how can you presume to speak for others? You're not speaking for me, I can tell you that.

The peak power level is great, but these cars are not raced or even pushed. Peak HP is not going to sell this car to one more person than if it had 275 HP.

The azera, the prior, pseudo-upscale sedan was a sales flop. Was it because it was FWD? No, most in this class don't know or care. Supposedly that car was competitive, but it's penetration in its class was dismal IIRC. The 'lazy H' badge have anything at all to do with that? Gee....

VW has a far better & more upscale rep than hyundai may ever have, and tho it's idiotically-named phaeton was grotesquely overpriced, it was in line with it's intended market. It flopped, and most point to the badge as the problem as opposed to the car. hyundai is certainly no aspirational badge.

Not to mention, it's a pretty rotten time to launch a conspicuous-consumption 375-HP lux sedan in a crowded segment in today's market...

We'll see how well this worn bar of blandness sells...

[Robert Hall]

The Sonata is the Malibu, the Azera is the LaCrosse and the Genesis is the Lucerne (if we're talking Buicks)...

Yes, but unfortunately, the Lucerne is a FWD car w/ a 4spd transmission. Not quite up to the Genesis specs. I'd love to see a next-gen Lucerne of that level of specification (i.e. like the China-market Park Avenue), but I don't think it's going to happen.

[Robert Hall]

Wow- such a touchy-feely love-in for hyundai going on here ! Run right out & place yer orders, guys, yer dream sedan is here!

>>"Put some port holes on the front fenders, Buick badges, and waterfall grille and everyone here would be going ga-ga over it. "<<

Bull&#036;h&#33;. Everyone here would be moaning that it's not a Buick. And how can you presume to speak for others? You're not speaking for me, I can tell you that.

.

And you think the Lucerne with it's FWD and dated transmission is a better Buick? The Genesis is everything that would make a great top of the line Buick..the styling needs a bit of work, but you can't argue with the specification.

[balthazar]

Umm, where did I say that?

Thought so.

Neither of these is a Buick as it should be,

so save yourself the trouble of telling us

we'd all love it with a Tri-Shield on the grille.

[Robert Hall]

Umm, where did I say that?

Thought so.

Neither of these is a Buick as it should be,

so save yourself the trouble of telling us

we'd all love it with a Tri-Shield on the grille.

Whatever....I'm afraid a Buick won't be a hardtop with tailfins and be 225 inches long again. So what's you bright idea about what a future Buick top of the line model should be?

[smk4565]

I suspect the Azera will stay around... by analogy, the Sonata is their Malibu, the Azera their LaCrosse, and the Genesis is the car Buick doesn't have but wishes it had..

The Genesis is the car Cadillac wishes it had.

[balthazar]

>>"I'm afraid a Buick won't be a hardtop with tailfins and be 225 inches long again. "<<

Yet another assumption, yet again incorrect.

I never saw the reasoning behind pigeonholeing people based on casual associations.

Have I ever advocated a 'hardtop or else' POV RE a future Buick? Ever once read anything from me suggesting something from 1959 return in the next Buick? No.

And what Buick's future flagship may be is not neccessarily what it should be, wouldn't you agree?

Not the same thing in many cases. Let's focus on one question at a time.

Should Buick build a flagship 4-dr sedan in a hartop bodystyle? I think they should, yes- it'd be unique at the price level and a clear marketing point. Do I think Buick 'shouldn't bother' if it's not a hdtp? No, clearly they still need a competitive&thensome sedan to get ahead in the segment and at least give pause to those who've long ago written Buick off without inspecting their vehicles and making stereotypical assumptions. But as many here have advocated (and I tend to agree in Buick's case), Buick must move ahead of the competition as they did with the Enclave, but moreso with a sedan since GM is generally not recognized as one of the class leaders in sedans as opposed to SUVs.

Buick needs to embrace a Buick-esque design language, not cribbed bits from other current cars as w/ the genesus, and the detail & features need to be head of the class. We can dicker over specifics all night, they are largely a given, but the car basically needs to have Buick in it's most elemental stamped all over it and have at least a few features that are unique & aspirational. Buick has a long history of forced induction & V-6s, that might be an excellent starting point toward a powertrain. But dreaming up variants of the modern cars are not my first interest.

[balthazar]

>>"The Genesis is the car Cadillac wishes it had."<<

More assumptive bull&#036;h&#33;.

[Robert Hall]

>>"The Genesis is the car Cadillac wishes it had."<<

More assumptive bull&#036;h&#33;.

Actually, Cadillac has nothing in it's line currently that matches the Genesis V8 on spec at that price point. Fact. Read over the Genesis specifications. It's dull looking, but it's very modern in content.

[HarleyEarl]

This Hyundai is so listless, so boring, so banal, so snoozefest, I'm having trouble keeping awake.

To even entertain the idea that this is what Buick or Cadillac aspire to, is beyond comprehension.

A complete insult to those storied brands.

[Robert Hall]

This Hyundai is so listless, so boring, so banal, so snoozefest, I'm having trouble keeping awake.

To even entertain the idea that this is what Buick or Cadillac aspire to, is beyond comprehension.

A complete insult to those storied brands.

You and Balthy missed the point competely. I never said anything about the Genesis styling.... was talking about the content for the price point...the Genesis has it all over the dated Lucerne.

[Robert Hall]

>>"I'm afraid a Buick won't be a hardtop with tailfins and be 225 inches long again. "<<

Yet another assumption, yet again incorrect.

I never saw the reasoning behind pigeonholeing people based on casual associations.

Have I ever advocated a 'hardtop or else' POV RE a future Buick? Ever once read anything from me suggesting something from 1959 return in the next Buick? No.

You really don't get sarcasm, do you? I know you aren't Sixty Eight (he'd want the '59 styling w/ ht and fins). I was being sarcastic to highlight your typical posting tone--your posts frequently come off like a grumpy old man who's always blathering about things were better 50 years ago or whatever. Lighten up.

Edited December 20, 2008 by moltar

[Satty]

The Genesis is impressive on paper, if it were German, English, American or even Japanese, people would be praising its specs. But its Korean, the newest whipping boy for enthusiasts, so on sites like C&G it is going to be hammered. It could be more lively in the styling department, but styling isn't what got Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen or Mercedes where they are no in the U.S. and Hyundai is still trying to gain footing in a way.

[smk4565]

People underestimated Lexus 20 years ago, look at them now. The Genesis has really solid specs, and they have updates already planned for it. The Genesis may sell slowly now, but it's mission is to change Hyundai's image. 10 years from now Hyundai could be thought of as equal or better than Nissan, Chevy, Ford and for sure Chrysler if they are still around.

Edited December 20, 2008 by smk4565

[balthazar]

'car Cadillac wishes it had'

Just wasted the last 1/2 hr comparing the hyundai with the CTS.

Specs, features, dimensions, performance, impressions.

Plenty of tech & features with class-leading handling & 3 suspension tunings w/ the CTS.

V-6 hyundai MSRPs @ $32.2K, V'6 CTS at $35.9 <-- that's the same price range. Interior dimensions are comparable.

CTS is smaller, lighter and quicker w/ equal mileage and has more hi-tech & impressive features. Styling & features in & out are easily arguable as better in the CTS (unless plood is something you value).

V-6 CTS is only .6 sec slower to 60 than the V-8 hyundai... (which is 2.0 sec slower than the CTS-V, which brakes in 15 less feet than the hyundai).

I know you guys are only going to compare V-6s to V-6s and V-8s to V-8s, right ??

How is it again that the genesus trumps the CTS ??

Please tell me it's not the hyundai claim that the genesus is "the size of the 7-series, the performance of the 5-series and the price of the 3-series" because we all recall how raked over the coals Cadillac was for not hitting the 3-series in BOTH price & size exactly, thusly being relegated to "uncompetitive"... Imagine, instead of a '5-series size @ the 3-series price', you have a '7-series size @ the 3-series price' !! Rut-roh!!

IMO, the CTS is the sedan hyundai wishes it had built.

[smk4565]

For $42k you can get a Genesis loaded, a $42k CTS would be DI and some options, but not all. So both would have nav, heated seats, power windows, locks, etc. CTS wouldn't have cooled seats or 18" wheels, wood trim package or a spare tire (spare tire is an option on a Cadillac for some reason and the car doesn't come with run-flat tires either). The Genesis has a couple extra features that are negligible, but a huge advantage in stereo.

The difference is powertrain. 304 hp V6 vs 375 hp V8. Genesis is faster than a CTS, Genesis' braking beats a 550i, and beats the CTS on the skidpad. Cadillac bragged about 3 mm panel gap tolerances on the CTS, the Genesis is 1.3 mm, tighter than an S-class.

I haven't driven a Genesis, so I don't know what it feels like, maybe it doesn't drive as well as a CTS and is just good on paper. But I doubt it. I sat in the Genesis, the interior materials and build quality are equal to the CTS, the Genesis' leather is probably better. The Genesis isn't here to compete with the luxury brands though, it is here to boost Hyundai's image and I think it is working.

[balthazar]

556 HP V-8 vs. 375 HP V-8.

304 HP V-6 vs. 290 HP V-6.

You can get 18" wheels w/ the CTS V-6 FE2 suspension (along with performance cooling, adaptive Xenons & an LSD).

Need to get the V-8 to get 18"ers on the hyundai.

V-6 genesus comes with plood, pletal and 290 HP.

V-6 CTS 0-60: 6.5, V-8 hyundai 0-60: 6.0, V-8 CTS 0-60: 3.9.

hyundai 60-0 : 124', CTS : 60-0: 109' (550 must suck).

V-6 CTS pulls .85 on skidpad, CTS-V pulls .96, genesis pulls .83

LATimes has already printed: "Doubling down on its own perverse anonymity, the Genesis' styling is hyper-generic -- a ransom-note collage of cues from BMW, Mercedes and Lexus." Stirring.

Too big & heavy to compete in the 3-series price bracket.

hyundai offers nothing new and nothing distinctive here.

Oh, and if the hyundai was as good as the Cadillac, why isn't it priced as high ????????????????????????????