Diamonds In The Rough

[LosAngeles]

Once upon a time...people felt the same way about cars many of you would sacrifice a newborn child to have back.

But I'm not gonna argue anymore. You guys are set in how you feel.

[Camino LS6]

Once upon a time...people felt the same way about cars many of you would sacrifice a newborn child to have back.

But I'm not gonna argue anymore. You guys are set in how you feel.

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. But I don't see anyone preserving an old Camry as their pride and joy - ever. Back when people considered the now classic cars just disposable things were a bit different. Just about everything was RWD and most offered a V8, they also rusted much faster and the "new" cars of the day offered similar (if not better) performance and style. Not so much these days. The cars that have survived are so desireable now that even the unloved 4-doors are becoming expensive. That just won't happen with the FWD stuff (except for a very few). There just isn't a '57 Chevy, or a GTO, or a Hemicuda in that category to drive the interest. People save Coronets because there were Chargers, and base Mustangs because there were 428 Cobra Jets, and Chevelle wagons because there was an LS6 SS. Except for cars like the WRX and the Mini, and maybe the PT and the HHR, there aren't many "aspirational" versions of these cars to drive the hobby.

At any rate, I'll try to make a peace offering in this thread by nominating a few things that I think really are worth saving from more recent times as I think of them.

The FWD short list:

Mini

HHR

WRX (AWD)

PT (especially the vert)

Mitsubishi 3000 GT (Especially the AWD)

These are cars with something unique to offer, and for that reason I expect some to be lovingly preserved as the years go by.

[Sixty8panther]

I'm 100% with Camino here...

[LosAngeles]

Just like doing everything done with these ubiquitous and redundant big V-8s, might as well try your hand at a V-12, make it a real challenge.

Well, I said it, time to show and prove...

Jaguar XJ-S:

BMW 750iL:

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I also forgot to mention that I almost got a 1982 Toranado. It wasnt in real good shape so I passed. Maybe someday I can or the same bodied Buick Riviera. I drove a 1981 Toranado once and loved it. Those worried about the engine should realize that the 1979 and 1980 version of these cars had the 350 not the 307 that came later.

[Camino LS6]

LA: The XJS is a definte winner in this category! They are fine looking cars and can be had for a song - just be prepared to suffer the upkeep nightmare (worth it in my book).

2005 'Nox: I actually owned an '82 Toronado once upon a time.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

How was it? Like I said maybe some day when I get my millions. Like that is going to happen

[Camino LS6]

It was an ok car. I used it as a beater, often driving it into Philly for shows and such. There were lots of these big FWD GMs in the city at that time, and being a sliver gray color it blended right in. No one ever bothered the car anywhere downtown so it was my urban cammo cruiser. The car was comfortable, if a bit slow.

[daves87rs]

I think it just depends on where a passion is....

Just look at the Beetle.....

Besides, if people are saving K cars, I'm sure there will be people saving their Montes (SS), Civics, Cavaliers, and such..

The hobby won't die-just chnage.

[Sixty8panther]

BOLD PREDICTION:

By the time this thread is done, at like page 27 in three months,

every single car from 1974 to presant will be named with the

possible exception fo the Bugatti Veyron & McLaren F1.

"Diamonds in the Rough" does not make me think of V8 BMWs.

I'd love to have a V8 BMW 7-series but they're almost never

dirt cheap unless they're really ROUGH and beat to f***, which

negates the point of this thread.

Not trying to be argumentative but that's the way (I think?)

Camino is trying to steer the thread, that's why I did not

mention my favorite used, obtainable modern hardtops:

1980s Mercedes Benz hardtops, been dreaming of one for

YEARS and now I got me one of my own.

This category woud include:

(again prob. does not belong in this thread?)

- MB 300CE

and

- MB 380SEC / 500SEC / 560SEC

http://www.jwfloormercedesclassics.com/Car...hp?productid=13

[Robert Hall]

The red car in the second pic looks like my sister's '91, except hers has the black interior (which is insane for AZ, but it's a Chicago car originally). I saw a very nice 300CE convertible for sale today, red w/ tan interior, for $9900. Those are pretty scarce compared to the coupes (which are pretty scarce compared to the sedans).

[LosAngeles]

My point in starting this thread was to identify the stuff that was worth a look at playing with after the posers, hosers, and people who value cigarettes, cheese puffs and cheap beverages from Walmart get through with them. It might be a pre-'95 premium that goes for about $3K, or it might be a LeBaron or Datsun or even one of those body-on-frame tanks on tires some of you worship. And they would be obtainable because they're more than likely all roughed up...so you wouldn't feel too bad about doing whatver the heck you want with it in any direction versus something brand new or overly coveted/loaded with a certain expectation.

And in all honesty, with no disrespect meant to anyone, I considered the thread done once a few among us with extreme biases started whining too much for it to be fun anymore.

[A Horse With No Name]

So lets open it back up and recap-Cars I think are worth fixing

Honda CRX-Wonderful car, little pocket rocket. Co worker owned one, more fun than a barrel of monkey's. Great aftermarket support and fan base.

Porsche 944-NASA has a spec 944 class, and these cars are very "tough cars." I've seen them rolled over at Porsche club, SCCA, and Nasa events and put back on track a couple hours later with minor repairs. They handle great and IMHO they are great looking cars.

Any E-30 or E-36 Chasis BMW that can be bought in decent shape without spending a bilion Dollars.

Fox Body or 3rd Gen F-body cars make great projects. My son and I have looked at a few.

Any Midsize 2 door BOF RWD V-8 GM car (Regal, Monte, Grand Prix, Cutlass). (the 80's cars are cheap right now, and available in good condition if you look)

C-4, C-3, or even "worn" C-5 Corvettes are available everywhere. Believe it or not, when my wife and I walk in the evening we pass about 6 (yeah, six) C-3 Corvettes sitting behind garages or in peoples yards. These things are everywhere.

Flame me if you want, but Miata's are great cars.

For a cheap daily driver, the Focus is not a bad car, and updating the suspension with SVT parts is so easy even i could do it.

Fullsize 70's GM convertibles are collectible and affordable, and probably worth the investment of fixing up.

There are others.

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

L.A.

Point taken, my panties are unbunched.

[Camino LS6]

There are under-rated cars that have great potential still around if you look.

- A Chevy Monza (and clones)

- second gen and up Novas (and clones)

- 3rd and 4th gen F-bods

- All A and G body cars from '73- '88

- Fox body Mustangs

All of the above are still affordable and offer the ability to easily be modified into a personal expression of your taste without breaking the bank like most cars from the musclecar era would (even if they aren't musclecars).

The irony of it is, that you can modify these cars to meet or exceed the performance and style of a well-known "classic" for a tiny fraction of the price.

[Robert Hall]

There are under-rated cars that have great potential still around if you look.

- A Chevy Monza (and clones)

- second gen and up Novas (and clones)

- 3rd and 4th gen F-bods

- All A and G body cars from '73- '88

- Fox body Mustangs

All of the above are still affordable and offer the ability to easily be modified into a personal expression of your taste without breaking the bank like most cars from the musclecar era would (even if they aren't musclecars).

The irony of it is, that you can modify these cars to meet or exceed the performance and style of a well-known "classic" for a tiny fraction of the price.

And for the Mopar fans, there are the F-, J- and M- bodies (Volare, Aspen, Le Baron, Diplomat, etc)..but most of those rusted away long ago in salty climes.. these cars seem even scarcer than any of the Fords and GMs Camino listed.

[Camino LS6]

True that.

I always had a soft spot for the Dodge Mirada, especially in CMX trim.

[Camino LS6]

A completely different option would be certain British sportscars such as the a Triumph Spitfire or an MGB or Midget. These are dead simple and can be had for a song.

Just don't expect to daily drive them.

[Robert Hall]

A completely different option would be certain British sportscars such as the a Triumph Spitfire or an MGB or Midget. These are dead simple and can be had for a song.

Just don't expect to daily drive them.

The electricals (Lucas) and carburators seem to be nightmares on those cars... my ex-brother-in-law #1 had a TR6 and then TR8..he was always working on them, the were always broken down in the driveway, and they were only 5-10 years old at the time..

[Camino LS6]

The electricals (Lucas) and carburators seem to be nightmares on those cars... my ex-brother-in-law #1 had a TR6 and then TR8..he was always working on them, the were always broken down in the driveway, and they were only 5-10 years old at the time..

British sportscars aren't transportation - they are a hobby you can sometimes drive. :AH-HA_wink:

[Robert Hall]

British sportscars aren't transportation - they are a hobby you can sometimes drive. :AH-HA_wink:

Yes... my sister's driveway and garage circa 1981 was bizzaro...battered blue '76 Pinto (her first car), a bronze '78 Datsun 280Z w/ wire wheels, a gold TR6, a silver TR8..usually with the hood open, and a beige '73 Matador 4dr.

[Camino LS6]

That's quite the diverse fleet.

A guy down the road from me has a few oddball cars he is preserving and one of them is an absolutely pristine Matador wagon. This car appears to be showroom perfect.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Sometimes the oddballs turn out to be the ones people someday want. I think AMC cars are going to become worth a lot more as more of them are junked. And especially since AMC doesnt exist anymore. I had a few uncles who worked at AMC but this was before it went downhill.

[Sixty8panther]

Yes and no....

is a '50s Kaiser Traveler or Manhatan worth a lot more

now than in 1968 when they were still plentiful as used

cars? (relatively plentiful) Sure it's worth a lot more,

but you're not going to retire on that $35,000 you

MIGHT get at Barrett Jackson for a clean, straight copy

at the right time, with the right buyer frenzy.

Do I think an AMC SX4 is worth saving? Sure... I had

one in my driveway for a short time, set up for a miget

driver no less (I'm dead serious!) but aside from being

worth twice the $1200 that a mint AMC Concorde from

the same era is worth it's pretty much always going to

be the red headed stepchild of collector's cars.

Then again it WILL be worth (on and off paper) a LOT

more than that Camry some dope will undboubtedly

save ?& try to pass off as a classic 22 years from now.

[A Horse With No Name]

There are under-rated cars that have great potential still around if you look.

- A Chevy Monza (and clones)

- second gen and up Novas (and clones)

- 3rd and 4th gen F-bods

- All A and G body cars from '73- '88

- Fox body Mustangs

All of the above are still affordable and offer the ability to easily be modified into a personal expression of your taste without breaking the bank like most cars from the musclecar era would (even if they aren't musclecars).

The irony of it is, that you can modify these cars to meet or exceed the performance and style of a well-known "classic" for a tiny fraction of the price.

All of the above indeed make great cars. The Fox body and the third and fourth gen F body esp.

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

E-bodys, any division, 79-85

[Sixty8panther]

I donno, the Toronado was pretty darn uuuh-gleeeee

by the '79-85 bodystyle, it's the one case of an

aftermarket parthenon grille being an IMPROVEMENT

over the original factory nose... there's one in town.

[Camino LS6]

This AMC could be fun:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-AMC-GR...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Robert Hall]

I donno, the Toronado was pretty darn uuuh-gleeeee

by the '79-85 bodystyle, it's the one case of an

aftermarket parthenon grille being an IMPROVEMENT

over the original factory nose... there's one in town.

The Toro was ok, but the Riviera and Eldo looked great, IMHO, esp. the rare ones without vinyl tops..

And I like (though a lot of people don't like them) the E-bodies 4dr K-body relative, the '80-85 Seville...very unique design.

Edited August 19, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

I donno, the Toronado was pretty darn uuuh-gleeeee

by the '79-85 bodystyle, it's the one case of an

aftermarket parthenon grille being an IMPROVEMENT

over the original factory nose... there's one in town.

You're treadin on thin ice there pantherboy! That'd be like me callin your '68 uuuh-gleee.

[Sixty8panther]

For what its worth i 'd never crush one or otherwise harm it...

Just saying the Rivi & Eldo are much nicer stylistically IMHO

That anti-grille on th Toro looks like a the front of an APC...

& that is both an insult & compemlent since the whole car

has a cool Panzer look to it....

[LosAngeles]

I feel like I'm in the Bizarro World right now.

[Drew Dowdell]

For what its worth i 'd never crush one or otherwise harm it...

Just saying the Rivi & Eldo are much nicer stylistically IMHO

That anti-grille on th Toro looks like a the front of an APC...

& that is both an insult & compemlent since the whole car

has a cool Panzer look to it....

See, I like the Toronado best because it's a much more quiet, elegant, and cleaner design than the Eldorados. The El-Dogs, especially ones with the Biarritz grills, look like the automotive equivalent of guy wearing too many gold chains and rings. The 4100 kills any chance of me ever owning one. I'd take the 350 diesel first.

I like the Riviera's but they seem a bit soft and fem to me, and I'm not a big fan of the interior.

I am a big fan of Art Deco design and the Toronado <and early 80s 98s> are the closest you got to Deco in the 80s.

And I'm surprised you aren't aware of the styling inspiration for this car 68....

[Robert Hall]

See, I like the Toronado best because it's a much more quiet, elegant, and cleaner design than the Eldorados. The El-Dogs, especially ones with the Biarritz grills, look like the automotive equivalent of guy wearing too many gold chains and rings. The 4100 kills any chance of me ever owning one. I'd take the 350 diesel first.

I like the Riviera's but they seem a bit soft and fem to me, and I'm not a big fan of the interior.

I am a big fan of Art Deco design and the Toronado <and early 80s 98s> are the closest you got to Deco in the 80s.

And I'm surprised you aren't aware of the styling inspiration for this car 68....

Interesting..never made the connection between the Toro front and the Cord..I see it as a continuation of the big mid '70s Toro fronts, with a little bit of the classic '66-67 models in that the headlights are above the grille..

[Drew Dowdell]

Well the original '66-'67 Toro was intended to have stylistic nods to the Cord. The reason being that the Cord was the last semi-successful attempt at a FWD car.

The broad horizontal grill, the pop up headlights, the front "fins" that were supposed to invoke imagery of pontoon fenders.

Someone who didn't know better might see those three pictures above and think they were 1930s, 1960s, and 1980s versions of the same car.

[Sixty8panther]

See now the one you posted is gorgeous but it

seems every single early-80s Toro I have seen

in the past 15 years was a scummy, rusted,

dented piece of twisted metal, cracked glass &

dry rotted pastic.

Dressed up in chrome like the one you posted I

will agree it's quite a looker.

The whitewalls help too.

I don't know why there's NOT ONE clean nice

example of this gen. Toro in my neck of the

woods.... There's plenty of '66-'72 examples

and after that they are almost nonexistant

until you get to the Trofeo.

[Intrepidation]

See, I like the Toronado best because it's a much more quiet, elegant, and cleaner design than the Eldorados. The El-Dogs, especially ones with the Biarritz grills, look like the automotive equivalent of guy wearing too many gold chains and rings. The 4100 kills any chance of me ever owning one. I'd take the 350 diesel first.

I like the Riviera's but they seem a bit soft and fem to me, and I'm not a big fan of the interior.

I am a big fan of Art Deco design and the Toronado <and early 80s 98s> are the closest you got to Deco in the 80s.

And I'm surprised you aren't aware of the styling inspiration for this car 68....

Funny thing is that to me, the cars pictured look better as they get older.

[Drew Dowdell]

See now the one you posted is gorgeous but it

seems every single early-80s Toro I have seen

in the past 15 years was a scummy, rusted,

dented piece of twisted metal, cracked glass &

dry rotted pastic.

Dressed up in chrome like the one you posted I

will agree it's quite a looker.

The whitewalls help too.

I don't know why there's NOT ONE clean nice

example of this gen. Toro in my neck of the

woods.... There's plenty of '66-'72 examples

and after that they are almost nonexistant

until you get to the Trofeo.

The one I posted is exactly like my first car.

[Robert Hall]

I don't know why there's NOT ONE clean nice

example of this gen. Toro in my neck of the

woods.... There's plenty of '66-'72 examples

and after that they are almost nonexistant

until you get to the Trofeo.

Well, you are in the NE..I guess they all rusted out..

[Camino LS6]

I guess I should stay quiet about what I think of these...

... except to say that my '82 Toronado was pretty clean as are most of the ones I ever see around here. In Philly, it's another story.

[LosAngeles]

Just a friendly reminder of what is about to be lost in droves when Cash For Clunkers is over with...

...and what folks thought back then too...