Kia Koup Concept

[HarleyEarl]

Don't know if any of you have seen this Kia concept, it's been out for awhile. I think it's a hot looking car.

[Intrepidation]

Indeed it is a sharp looking little car, and it is a hardtop. If the production car is a hardtop how bad will that make GM look?

[Satty]

Search function works now Edited July 28, 2008 by Satty

[HarleyEarl]

Isn't that the truth....I wish someone would explain to me why GM and others just refuse to do a proper hardtop. Anyone?

[HarleyEarl]

Looks like this has been covered before....couldn't find anything on it.

Anyhow, I hadn't seen it and I like it alot. Kia must be hiring

some good designers.

Edited July 28, 2008 by HarleyEarl

[Intrepidation]

Dunno, but Mercedes has been doing it for years, and still does, just ask 68.

[balthazar]

Those benz fender flares are God-awful, as are the cheap-o black plastic inserts and grillemesh. Who asked for all that bloated plastic ??

Cut off roofline, replace everything below it.

[HarleyEarl]

Damn, there is something about a true hardtop....honestly I almost get hard myself. It does something to me. It has such a purity to the look.

[loki]

looks good, like a mix of lancer and civic, the best of each plus some other dashes of design.

[Intrepidation]

The Koreans may not be original, but they seem to have a knack lately of taking designs of current cars (like the Civic) and making them better.

[Sixty8panther]

Indeed... GMs reluctance to produce affordable RWD cars

& hardtops makes me frustrated like nothing else.

[Sixty8panther]

Balthazar:

Here's a nice, stock, non-riced out MB hardtop CLK.

[HarleyEarl]

I like how Mercedes-Benz explains their CLK coupe:

http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?ID=351

The B-pillar separates the front and rear side windows. But what do you get if you leave out the B-pillar? You get one of the most attractive coupes ever built. The absence of the B-pillar means that the view from inside the car is unobstructed, unfettered, and frankly, unbelievable. So you can see the world in all it's pillar-less beauty. What's more, envious outsiders can admire the interior of the CLK that much more easily. Brace yourself. People will stare.

You need not worry about strength, either. Mercedes-Benz engineers have created a super-strong roof structure. In short, you are protected from above.

The CLK-Class. Expect to be admired.

(from Mercedes-Benz)

[Robert Hall]

Those benz fender flares are God-awful, as are the cheap-o black plastic inserts and grillemesh. Who asked for all that bloated plastic ??

Cut off roofline, replace everything below

it.

That's a CLK AMG Black Series...it's one supremely badass car. I saw one at the post office a few weeks ago...they look incredible in person, sound incredible also.

Edited July 28, 2008 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

I whole-heartedly agree!

Even Julie's '84 SEC has a large cross member and high-rocker

panels to help in the event of a violent t-bone collision.

[Intrepidation]

Those benz fender flares are God-awful, as are the cheap-o black plastic inserts and grillemesh. Who asked for all that bloated plastic ??

Cut off roofline, replace everything below it.

Indeed... GMs reluctance to produce affordable RWD cars

& hardtops makes me frustrated like nothing else.

As moltar just said, it's not riced, it's the AMG Black Series, and it is extremely badass. The mods are all their for the sake of performance. I personally love the wide stance this car has with it's fender flares and massive wheels and tires.

[Robert Hall]

As moltar just said, it's not riced, it's the AMG Black Series, and it is extremely badass. The mods are all their for the sake of performance. I personally love the wide stance this car has with it's fender flares and massive wheels and tires.

Yes, it gives it the look of a road going version of a DTM race car.

[HarleyEarl]

Indeed... GMs reluctance to produce affordable RWD cars

& hardtops makes me frustrated like nothing else.

Drives me insane. Nothing, I repeat nothing is as sexyhot as a true hardtop with the windows down on a warm summers evening.

What was the last hardtop that GM built?

Edited July 28, 2008 by HarleyEarl

[Argen]

Looks like this has been covered before....couldn't find anything on it.

Anyhow, I hadn't seen it and I like it alot. Kia must be hiring

some good designers.

Kia's new head of design is Peter Schreyer, who was incharge of design for Volkswagen and Audi back in the days when they made clean, simple designs. Two fo Schreyer's best known designs are the original Audi TT and the New Bettle.

[HarleyEarl]

Kia's new head of design is Peter Schreyer, who was incharge of design for Volkswagen and Audi back in the days when they made clean, simple designs. Two fo Schreyer's best known designs are the original Audi TT and the New Bettle.

Hey thanks for that info. I'm a fan of this type of design esthetic. It has a muscular purity about it.

[balthazar]

It's riced by mercedes, and looks like ass, picture or in person. These are supposedly classy, thoroughbred cars, not boy-racer jobs. None of those 100s of lbs of plastic do Thing 1 for performance. If the flares were squared off- they'd be straight off a Jeep.

The factory hardttop is a nice look, well done (tho nothing new), takes the stuffiness out of M-B. And the stock clk is a clean, pleasant design- it's just the over-the-top plasti-bling of the amgs which drag it down to RicerTown.

[Intrepidation]

It's riced by mercedes, and looks like ass, picture or in person. These are supposedly classy, thoroughbred cars, not boy-racer jobs. None of those 100s of lbs of plastic do Thing 1 for performance. If the flares were squared off- they'd be straight off a Jeep.

The factory hardttop is a nice look, well done (tho nothing new), takes the stuffiness out of M-B. And the stock clk is a clean, pleasant design- it's just the over-the-top plasti-bling of the amgs which drag it down to RicerTown.

Not that it'll change your mind, since you're dead set that it's a piece of crap, but one look at the reviews show just how much of a performance car this is:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=120993

[Sixty8panther]

Balthazar has his tastes and strong opinions just like the rest of us, that's why

I used the term "RICED" even though I'm with you guys about the fact that it

is quite a M-series, Audi-S & Porsche killer. While I'd never in a million years

turn down a Mercedes tunned by AMG with a handbuilt motor I think many of

their styling "add-ons" look the part: tacked on. I believe that's basically what

Balthazar was saying, either way an AMG-motor in a stock CLK with the 320

emblems would be the way to go, sleeper status & elegance.

Harley:

GM's FULL-full size B-body 4-door hardtops were the last true hardtop, though

they were not exactly the most elegant example of their type.... the last of

them rolled off assembly lines calendar year 1976, as 1976 model year Chevy

Impalas & Caprice Classics, Buick LeSabres & Electras, Oldsmobile Delta 88,

98s (Broughams), Pontiac Bonnevilles & Cadillac Sedan deVilles.

But I do not think more than twomor three years has gone by without GM

showing/tempting us with a concept car with a true hardtop bodystyle... they

just refuse to put their @&$^# moeny where their &*@#$ mouth is.

P.S. Before Chrysler Corp. started pumping out K-cars and Mitsubishi clones

they had Plymouth, Dodge & Chrysler 4-dr hardtops all the way up to 1978.

[Sixty8panther]

S'more Mercedes Hardtops... (pulled from my photobucket account)

[balthazar]

>>"...one look at the reviews show just how much of a performance car this is..."<<

And to my point- how much performance was added by the huge fender flares, spats and flutes? Ahh, that's right: none.

>>"...their styling "add-ons" look the part: tacked on. I believe that's basically what Balthazar was saying..."<<

Just about- they look cheap & out of place on a mercedes. They are as functional as a fake hood scoop. But mostly they look cheap.

>>"...a Mercedes tunned by AMG with a handbuilt motor..."<<

As irony would have it, while flipping thru the satellite menu, just as I stopped on Top Gear, the remote fell into the couch cushions as I dug for it frantically. Blockhead was testing an AMG CLK. What stood out to me was the fact that he made a point of the "handbuilt" claim, and the other dweeb on the show asked,

"How many AMG engines does mercedes sell in a year?"

Blockhead: "Eighteen thousand! That's like 100 units a day!"

{{It actually works out to about 70, but BH's answer is typical of the "entertainment"-biased accuracy of the show.}}

Clearly, they were both highly dubious of the handbuilt claim at that torrid pace- seeming to imply that perhaps the 'handbuilding' consisted of gluing their plastic signature badge on the plastic engine cover. Frankly, tho the power/performance seems impressive without question (tho the mercedes' Electro-Nanny still modulated the brakes even tho the car was in 'sport 2' setting, causing them to overheat and flash a dash warning...), at 100 engines a day, there must be VERY VERY minimal hands-on 'building' going on, regardless of what mercedes claims.

Edited July 28, 2008 by balthazar

[Sixty8panther]

LOL Balthy, you crack me up.

Maybe I'm wrong but i DO BELIEVE the AMG motors ARE hand assembled.

When you sell 18K units you can probably pay a good 50 technicians to

hammer out all those motors. I'm not going to insist I am right, perhaps

things have changed since the late 1990s when I read that.

Wouldn't surprise me, I think back then AMG production #s were like 20%

of what they are today.... AMG Benzes are about as rare as Cadillac CTSs

whereas a decade ago you might see half a dozen in year.

[Robert Hall]

LOL Balthy, you crack me up.

Maybe I'm wrong but i DO BELIEVE the AMG motors ARE hand assembled.

When you sell 18K units you can probably pay a good 50 technicians to

hammer out all those motors. I'm not going to insist I am right, perhaps

things have changed since the late 1990s when I read that.

Wouldn't surprise me, I think back then AMG production #s were like 20%

of what they are today.... AMG Benzes are about as rare as Cadillac CTSs

whereas a decade ago you might see half a dozen in year.

The AMGs are esp. common out here in the Scottsdale area...I think I see more AMG SLs than regular SLs.

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah, that's Arizona for ya...

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, that's Arizona for ya...

Yes...strange place. I'm ready to run screaming back to Denver.

[HarleyEarl]

Hardtops can make even the most plain jane car look special.

I feel so strongly about this, I'm almost ready to start a campaign to convince GM to do it.

GM has to get that 'Harley Earl' feelin' back again. People will buy sexy cars. They want

to be seduced. I know I do.

[HarleyEarl]

Such a missed opportunity to make the new Camaro truly over the top stunning.....just making it a hardtop.

[balthazar]

>>"Such a missed opportunity to make the new Camaro truly over the top stunning.....just making it a hardtop."<<

Absolutely true.

The willingness of the 'constructive criticism' crowd to accept the morph to sedan on the production 'maro is puzzling to me to say the least... yet wearisome diatribes on the softness of lower dash panels exist in spades in the archives of this very site.

[Robert Hall]

>>"Such a missed opportunity to make the new Camaro truly over the top stunning.....just making it a hardtop."<<

Absolutely true.

The willingness of the 'constructive criticism' crowd to accept the morph to sedan on the production 'maro is puzzling to me to say the least... yet wearisome diatribes on the softness of lower dash panels exist in spades in the archives of this very site.

I definitely don't like the concrete-hard dash or door panels so many cars have today..if they spent a few more $$ for softer interior plastics, it would be a big improvement. Hardtops are nice to look at and fun, but in reality, with air conditioning, how often do most drivers really drive around with all the windows down? Not to mention a HT Camaro would weigh as much as the convertible, and the coupe as it is is no lightweight...

Edited July 29, 2008 by moltar

[pow]

Yes, it gives it the look of a road going version of a DTM race car.

+1

Edited July 29, 2008 by empowah

[SuperSport623]

my nova, unfortunatley isnt a hardtop, but i rock all four windows down totally.... i so wish i didnt have a damned b pillar... i can asure you if i had a hard top car, id rather have all windows open then use the AC.... its th feel and look of the massive, unobstructed opening on each side... much better then a convertible

[Intrepidation]

Would you rather it not have the fender flares so the fat tires stuck out of the body like one of those Mexican customs?

[balthazar]

>>"Hardtops are nice to look at and fun, but in reality, with air conditioning, how often do most drivers really drive around with all the windows down? Not to mention a HT Camaro would weigh as much as the convertible, and the coupe as it is is no lightweight..."<<

WTH is the point of rolling down all 4 windows in a post-sedan... so how do you have any idea how many hardtop owners would roll down all 4 windows ?? Why bother making the rear windows in any sedan roll down, since all cars have A/C now? Think how popular that would be.... but it's the same dismissive attitude that states 'why bother' RE hardtops.

Sounds a lot like 'how often do most drivers drive around with items in their trunks?' as a reason to not bother with trunks (read that sentiment many times RE pickups).

These are not 'realities', they are individual preferences.

As design progress irreversibly stagnates... 'little' touches like hardtops are going to HAVE to be played again, to keep any sort of interest going. It's not going to come from new directions in body envelope design.

And no: a hardtop would not have to weigh as much as a convertible.

[balthazar]

>>"Would you rather it not have the fender flares so the fat tires stuck out of the body like one of those Mexican customs?"<<

Is tastefully integration & moderation too much to ask ??

[Intrepidation]

I would think a hardtop would weight between the pillared coupe and the vert. I think there should be a choice of all 3. The pillared one for hardcore people who want extra rigidity and weight saving, and the hardtop for those who aren't hardcore racers, but want something dead sexy and that still handles very well.

[balthazar]

And there you nailed it, DF (tho no one beyond a professional competitor will ever notice any differences in pillared vs. hardtop rigidity/weight).

So where are our hardtops??

[Sixty8panther]

my nova, unfortunatley isnt a hardtop, but i rock all four windows down totally.... i so wish i didnt have a damned b pillar... i can asure you if i had a hard top car, id rather have all windows open then use the AC.... its th feel and look of the massive, unobstructed opening on each side... much better then a convertible

AMEN!!!

Screw AC, I never feel the need for it. And for you

"OMG the Camaro is overweight!" naysayers, just

how much wieight does AC add to a car, I will bet

my life a modern AC system still weighs a LOT more

than most of you realise. The AC compressor from

my '86 Fleetwood Brougham weighed like 70 lbs.

Just that ONE component!

You guys KNOW how strongly I feel about hardtops,

hell I'd get a pitchfork and torch and march into the

renaissance center if I thought it might help GM see

]the freekin' light.!

---

Balthazar:

Excellent point about rear windows & trunks.

Sa far as you safety nuts:

I'd rather die in a bad side impact (lack of B-pillar)

than burn to death inside a car afte the wreck...

how F%ing safe do you think it is to GLUE in a

pane of glass in a car versus: hardtops or old

school sedans alike, have the rear window roll

down to aid emergency egress!?

I'd LOVE to see the statistics on occupants who

die in a vehicle as a result of being trapped inside

after a collision, during a fire, in a ar that rolls into

a body of water etc...