GM Europe decides to downsize future Saabs

[Camino LS6]

Well, portholes on anything other than a Buick usually look completely lousy and wrong.

But somehow, the fact that the HHR has that domed hood and the portholes were on it rather than the fender, almost gives it a pass.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

but is one more nail in pontiacs coffin =/

Depends on how you look at it.

Pontiac pulls the volume of the channel currently (on the car side) so why would it be? Unless GM is being stupid (Which can usually be counted on)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Saabs don't do well because of low brand awareness, very poor reliability (they have been bottom 5 in JD Power dependability the last few years), and dated product. Volvo has been struggling lately too, but at least they have the safety reputation to fall back on, and a broader product lineup. Perhaps Lexus reliability and hybrids took some Volvo buyers, and Infiniti took some from Saab, but I suspect the bulk of cars cross shopped with Saab and Volvo come from Germany, and Saab/Volvo don't have anything as good as what the Germans have.

A rebadged Cruze has zero chance against a 3-series or A4 or C-class, why continue to dump money in a brand that won't make it back.

+1

[smk4565]

They reduced the warranty on Saabs today in order to save money. Saabs inherently break down; the warranty claims must be very high per vehicle since they only sell 30,000 cars a year. Otherwise how much money could they be saving. The dumped the Aero driving academy also. Which is probably a good idea, since the 9-3 and 9-5 Aero have less power than a Camry V6.

[Intrepidation]

Which is probably a good idea, since the 9-3 and 9-5 Aero have less power than a Camry V6.

Wrong again. The 9-3 XWD makes 280 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Drew Dowdell]

They reduced the warranty on Saabs today in order to save money. Saabs inherently break down; the warranty claims must be very high per vehicle since they only sell 30,000 cars a year. Otherwise how much money could they be saving. The dumped the Aero driving academy also. Which is probably a good idea, since the 9-3 and 9-5 Aero have less power than a Camry V6.

I'm going to start a thread called "SMK being blatantly wrong or maliciously deceptive" and start moving your posts in there.

Saab Aero 2.8 turbo has 280hp and 295 ft/lbs of torque compared to the Camry V6 that gets 268 hp and 248 ft/lbs of torque while having to lug around 400 more lbs. The 9-5 Aero has 8 less horsepower than the Camry but it has 10 more ft/lbs of torque in a 4-cylinder at an absurdly low 1900rpm. The Camry's peak torque hits at 4700 rpm.

[smk4565]

The regular 9-3 Aero has 255 hp. Thus less than the 268 in the Camry. Turbo X and Aeros with XWD have 280. But a Turbo X is more expensive than a 335i or G35 or CTS DI and those all have over 300 hp, and they get better mileage. The CTS and BMW get 2 mpg more city and highway than a 9-3 Aero.

Edited July 29, 2008 by smk4565

[Intrepidation]

The regular 9-3 Aero has 255 hp. Thus less than the 268 in the Camry. Turbo X and Aeros with XWD have 280. But a Turbo X is more expensive than a 335i or G35 or CTS DI and those all have over 300 hp, and they get better mileage. The CTS and BMW get 2 mpg more city and highway than a 9-3 Aero.

You're comparing the Camry's top engine, thus you should compare the 9-3's tope ngine. Not that this is apples to apples anyway, since they don't even compete with each other, but then none of your comparisons are fair or well thought out.

[Intrepidation]

I'm going to start a thread called "SMK being blatantly wrong or maliciously deceptive" and start moving your posts in there.

I 2nd that idea.

That thread would be like 50 pages long though.

[ZL-1]

Let me ressurect this thread to ask if there are any news re the NG 9-3 moving to the same architecture as the NG Astra.

[AAS]

And what's up with the 9-1 thing?

[ZL-1]

IIRC the 9-1 was supposed to be Astra-sized. Either it will be based on the Corsa, or there will be a full 9-3 range (sedan, wagon, hatches) on DeltaII... Or GM will be futher buried in the $h!ter and nothing happens...

[regfootball]

Let me ressurect this thread to ask if there are any news re the NG 9-3 moving to the same architecture as the NG Astra.

you know in my recent shopping i determined the 9-3 and astra (current ones) were both cars I like A LOT.

of course, the 9-3 is more posh and performs on the next level. but when i started to break it down to 'family car functionality', i found that in terms of back seat room, the astra is actually more comfortable. I can't even get in the back seat of the 9-3 and the backrest angle and headrest location is too severe. the 9-3 is wider. overall, the astra is way more accomodating in the back seat.

the astra has 92.4 cf of interior space, i think the saab is 93.4. you factor in the little bit of added width (the hip room is about an inch and a half and the shoulder room is about 2 inches) its easy to see why the back seat of the 9-3 is tighter in terms of leg room and backrest angle.

Now look at the wheelbases. the saab wheelbase is not much more than the astra. 2 1/2 inches i think. Now, the 9-3 is much larger aft of the rear wheels, and it has much more cargo room.

So my ultimate point. Even though the current 9-3 is on epsilon and the astra is on a compact chassis, i am thinking that if the next astra's wheelbase is the same or around that 104.0 inch mark (big for a compact) it will be able to produce hopefully as much interior room as the current 9-3 and maybe squeeze out some more leg room. And I bet we see a 5 door 9-3 next version which will basically be a much nicer astra.

So where does that leave the 9-1? Corsa / Fiesta sized is my guess. And super tight inside. But they better not eff up the 9-3 passenger compartment size since so many people bitch about it now. My impression is the 9-5 is large enough to carry the big sedan tag for saab, it will probably be somewhere inbetween the aura and impala in size is my guess. Maybe the size of the Insignia or larger. Hopefully a little larger. It will be large enough so that the 9-3 can go down a bit in physical size, and hopefully remain somewhat commodious.

this implies the astra chassis can actually be tuned to feel like an expensive premium car on the 9-3. We'll see. If anything, it makes me want to find out how the next Astra turns out.

Maybe they are also counting on the 9-4x to carry the saab car with space torch.

I like room in cars, especially after having that 500. GM doesn't make large cars hardly these days, at least in terms of passenger space. I gave up looking at the 9-3 that is current, because the backseat is really not usable.

Edited November 9, 2008 by regfootball

[thegriffon]

The wheelbase of the 9-3 is what? 2685 mm IIRC. Guess what, so is the Chevrolet Cruze.

[regfootball]

hey, maybe. if the cruze is roomier than the current 9-3, than it should do the trick.