Insignia will come to U.S. as a Saturn, with new sheetmetal, interior

[BigPontiac]

Link to article

[AAS]

What happened to Saturn = Opel, and Aura = Insignia?

[Robert Hall]

What happened to Saturn = Opel, and Aura = Insignia?

Maybe Chevy got concerned that the Insignia looked too good relative the Malibu and told Saturn to tone it down..

[cire]

I think GM realized that they couldn't possibly sell the Euro version of the Insignia here as a Saturn because the Euro version is too upscale and would need to be priced too high to appeal to Saturn's shoppers. So we will get a cheapened and decontented version that will essentially continue to compete with the Malibu. Instead of launching Opel in the U.S. and offering their products here essentially unchanged from their Euro counterparts to properly target the premium, import flavored market, GM will continue to support Saturn and allow it to cannibalize Chevrolet sales.

Why not make Chevrolet strong enough to challenge Toyota, Honda, etc. in the mainstream market? If GM would do this right, then they wouldn't need three divisions (Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Saturn) to cover the same mainstream portion of the market. GM could then fully convert Saturn into Opel and mold Opel's image and product portfolio to target buyers who prefer premium, import flavored vehicles. Right now, Chevrolet, Saturn, and Pontiac are just cannibalizing each other's sales instead of helping GM to gain back market share. It seems to me that the money wasted to give each of these three divisions products that target the same portion of the market could be better spent properly launching Opel in the U.S. to attract new buyers back to the corporation.

[balthazar]

>>"Maybe Chevy got concerned that the Insignia looked too good relative the Malibu and told Saturn to tone it down."<<

I thought there was no 'Chevy', just marketing names from 1 corporation.

[MyerShift]

So what this is saying is that GM still doesn't get it and that they should just dump the Saturn brand and have German engineered and marketed Opels already? Edited July 24, 2008 by MyerShift

[Robert Hall]

>>"Maybe Chevy got concerned that the Insignia looked too good relative the Malibu and told Saturn to tone it down."<<

I thought there was no 'Chevy', just marketing names from 1 corporation.

Well, the marketing organisations compete with each other, no doubt..

[Guest aatbloke]

The 2003 Malibu was essentially a Vectra platform, shod with a different bodyshell, different interior, and different powertrains.

The next Aura then sounds no different in concept to the current Aura, which took the Vectra's extended Epsilon platform, and gave it a different bodyshell, different interior, and different powertrains.

So, the entire concept is no different to the 2003 Malibu.

GM's statement last year that "Opel and Saturn will be indistinguishable by 2014" is already losing credibility, in the same way that the Chevrolet Beat was confirmed for the US and a short time later, it wasn't.

This is where GM differs from Toyota, which firmly understands its markets and sticks to its gameplan.

[VenSeattle]

Hmm... Well we know Buick is getting a version of the Insignia in China as the next gen Regal, maybe that's why? Insignia will still come to the US, but as a Buick Regal positioned under Invicta?

[enzl]

I think GM realized that they couldn't possibly sell the Euro version of the Insignia here as a Saturn because the Euro version is too upscale and would need to be priced too high to appeal to Saturn's shoppers. So we will get a cheapened and decontented version that will essentially continue to compete with the Malibu. Instead of launching Opel in the U.S. and offering their products here essentially unchanged from their Euro counterparts to properly target the premium, import flavored market, GM will continue to support Saturn and allow it to cannibalize Chevrolet sales.

Why not make Chevrolet strong enough to challenge Toyota, Honda, etc. in the mainstream market? If GM would do this right, then they wouldn't need three divisions (Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Saturn) to cover the same mainstream portion of the market. GM could then fully convert Saturn into Opel and mold Opel's image and product portfolio to target buyers who prefer premium, import flavored vehicles. Right now, Chevrolet, Saturn, and Pontiac are just cannibalizing each other's sales instead of helping GM to gain back market share. It seems to me that the money wasted to give each of these three divisions products that target the same portion of the market could be better spent properly launching Opel in the U.S. to attract new buyers back to the corporation.

I always think...hey, isn't Saturn's 'new' plan the exact same mindspace that Olds was going for before they were euthanized? Wouldn't Saturn's wishfull pricing look like bargains if they sat in an Olds showroom?

Saturn should have forever been the inexpensive (note: not same as 'cheap'), fun-to-drive odd ball from Spring Hill. Would've at least been easier to sell...

[regfootball]

Maybe Chevy got concerned that the Insignia looked too good relative the Malibu and told Saturn to tone it down..

BINGO.

the aura sales have gone up with the high gas prices and the intro of the 4 cylinder and dropping of prices.

and yes, the beancounters got scared. they were afraid again of giving the customers more than what they expected instead of the GM usual (what we can get away with cheaply).

if this insignia does not come to this market in tact, then officially i am done with GM.

if the insignia hit the sales floor tomorrow here in the US or when it does in Europe, AS IS, would almost singlehandedly revive GM assuming the prices were good.

GM can't punch their way out of a paper bag however.

One thing, maybe there is a plan to sell the aura and insignia side by side for awhile.

[ZL-1]

BINGO.

I disagree. I think the Insigna's content/equipment would position it closer to the LaCrosse. I think GM is scared that the Insignia would hurt LaCrosse sales.

[CSpec]

This is a new development, isn't it? I would imagine the new Aura is now much delayed. Unless he means it will be different in the same way that the Vue and Antara have slightly different trim and interiors.

[Intrepidation]

Why mess with the interior? That's the best part about the Insigina. Honestly you could bring the whole car here and it would be fine, unless they were to make the front end a bit more aggressive...I'd be all for that.

Dumbing down the car for this market does not a segment killer make.

[The O.C.]

I disagree. I think the Insigna's content/equipment would position it closer to the LaCrosse. I think GM is scared that the Insignia would hurt LaCrosse sales.

<dripping sarcasm>........oh....but GM has no problem with "too many models, too many divisions"

If this were the case, it would be a textbook case of how a proper product decision (bringing the Insignia over here in some capacity) being hampered by GM's decades' old problem of too many models and divisions stepping on each others' toes.

[ZL-1]

<dripping sarcasm>........oh....but GM has no problem with "too many models, too many divisions"

If this were the case, it would be a textbook case of how a proper product decision (bringing the Insignia over here in some capacity) being hampered by GM's decades' old problem of too many models and divisions stepping on each others' toes.

Well, GM hasn't figured out how to resahpe its brand structur in NA, that's for sure. And unlike what most people here think, tiny Saab isn't the real problem. The problem is having a brand aspiring to having bigger volume (Opel/Saturn) fighting with two other brands that are struggling (Pontiac and Buick), with all 3 brands wishing they can occupy the same space above Chevrolet. Also, a big part of the problem is Cadillac not being able to move upmarket fast enough to give those 'lesser' brands some breathing room.

Re the Insignia/Aura thing, maybe Saturn could have everything smaller than EpII and leave that to Buick, but there are a lot of different options to consider at this point. I think GM is delaying the Aura to consider all of those options, including the starving of one or more brands.

Edited July 24, 2008 by ZL-1

[FAPTurbo]

Why mess with the interior? That's the best part about the Insigina. Honestly you could bring the whole car here and it would be fine, unless they were to make the front end a bit more aggressive...I'd be all for that.

Dumbing down the car for this market does not a segment killer make.

You'd think they'd have learned that, especially with such grrrreat, offerings like the Cadillac Catera, and Ford Contour.

[Guest aatbloke]

You'd think they'd have learned that, especially with such grrrreat, offerings like the Cadillac Catera, and Ford Contour.

Both of these cars were great cars which were dumbed down for the North American market. Indeed, the Omega was fleet favourite with police forces.

In the case if the Catera, GM chose to use the worst engine from the entire Omega range - the lumpy 3 litre V6. The Omega's 2.5 was a far superior unit. The Catera also came in just the sedan body style. The Omega was reknowned for its handling, with the European press often put on the same mantle as the 5-series of the time.

In the case of the Contour, Ford took the Mondeo underpinnings, front doors and front wings (it shared no other body panels with the Mondeo) and threw the rest of the Mondeo away. It used inferior brakes to the Mondeo, a sloppier suspension, poorer quality materials, and reduced the rear headroom with a coupe-like sloping rear roofline which was unique to the Contour/Mystique. Compared with the Mondeo, the Contour felt like it was literally thrown together.

Both GM and Ford have traditionally either poorly marketed their European products in North America, or dumbed them down significantly. The Focus was also greatly dumbed down for the States - it used cheap interior and exterior materials compared with the European Focus, as evidenced with the mirrors, B-pillar and seath cloths - however it was a big sales success.

[Drew Dowdell]

Here's why they have to change the Insignia... It's not Chevy they're worried about. It's Buick.

[pow]

Why don't they just make the Insignia a 'LaCrosse'? The Invicta, if it's big enough, can be the 'Lucerne'.

The next AURA can continue to be a restyled Malibu - which, like the Cruze, will be a global Chevrolet.

The Epsilon-II hierarchy can go like this...

Entry-level; GM-DAT

Chevrolet Malibu/Epica; Daewoo Tosca

Saturn AURA

Pontiac G6

Mid-grade SWB; GME

Opel Insignia; Buick LaCrosse, US/Regal, China

Mid-grade LWB; GME

Buick Invicta, US/LaCrosse, China

Premium (i.e., double wishbone) SWB; GME

Saab 9-3

Premium LWB; GME

Saab 9-5

[smk4565]

Well they are going to dumb the car down because the bean counters and accountants got a hold of it, or they think no one will pay $30,000 for a Saturn since they make those dent resistant door cars for college kids, or they don't want it to compete with Buick's Epsilon, or Saab's Epsilon, so they need to price it a little lower, but not too low to compete with Chevy or Pontiac's epsilon.

Clearly there isn't a too many models. too many brands problem.

[Northstar]

Well they are going to dumb the car down because the bean counters and accountants got a hold of it, or they think no one will pay $30,000 for a Saturn since they make those dent resistant door cars for college kids, or they don't want it to compete with Buick's Epsilon, or Saab's Epsilon, so they need to price it a little lower, but not too low to compete with Chevy or Pontiac's epsilon.

Clearly there isn't a too many models. too many brands problem.

Ok, first of all Saturn no longer has dent resistant door panels. 2nd the Buick Epsilon should compete with the ES, that is not Saturn's territory. The current 9-3 starts at close to $30k, again not Saturn's territory except for the upper end, plus Saab is a niche brand and the 9-3 is going to be the size of a Cruze, and the 9-5 starts at $38k. No Saturn sedan should cost that much, ever. If the Insignia/Aura is priced at Passat levels ($24k to $33k or so, forget the VR6), it should not overlap too much with the Buick Epsilon, which should start at $31k if comparably equipped to a base ES ($34k). Aura and Malibu should have different enough styling that they attract different customers. Malibu should also be priced as low as $21k for a base model. Even if they attract some of the same customers, the midsize car market is so big, does it really matter? It will likely get even bigger as people move away from SUVs and large sedans but don't want to move all the way down to a compact vehicle.

There is no Pontiac Epsilon AFAIK.

I was thinking about this, and there's no evidence that the vehicle is getting dumbed down. That may be the case in the end, but I am actually wondering if it's just going to be an MCE of the Insignia, or something of the effect, especially on the interior. Insignia will be dated by the time the NG Aura arrives, anyways.

[Oracle of Delphi]

You know it's a darn shame that Lutz didn't take the time to give the recently departed Pontiac GTO and the current Pontiac G8 it's own unique sheetmetal. I might have not been so opposed to those cars if they had taken the time to differentiate the cars and not just make another rebadge of a current model.

I hope they make the new Saturn Aura's sheetmetal as unique as possible, and take the time to do it right.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Guest aatbloke]

You know it's a darn shame that Lutz didn't take the time to give the recently departed Pontiac GTO and the current Pontiac G8 it's own unique sheet metal. I might have not been so opposed to those cars if they had taken the time to differentiate the cars and not just make another rebadge of a current model.

Most ordinary punters would never know unless they spend copious amounts of time in Australasia or the Far East.

The purpose is to save development money on making a who raft of different unique vehicles of similar size by utilising global resources. It's been a commonplace practice with many mainstream manufacturers for decades who offer different brands globally, and GM themselves have pulled it off successfully enough before (the T-Car and J-Car both spring to mind). The G8 certainly looks the most credible product in the Pontiac stable for a very long time, and a far cry from the hideous, over-designed plastic-clad offerings from just a few short years ago.

[Guest aatbloke]

Well they are going to dumb the car down because the bean counters and accountants got a hold of it

I think you need to understand that a car manufacturer is, above all else, a business.

[enzl]

Noone but us car dorks know this Saturn Aura is an Opel elsewhere.

I suspect GM's trying to recoup its investment in the current gen Aura, shift resources elsewhere, and then intro the Insignia/Aura EpII down the road. Remember, GM was predicting 100k+/yr. Aura sales that haven't materialized...

As for Ep overlap--it's still going to be a problem. Buick, Saturn, Pontiac & Saab all have or will have Ep/EpII cars on the market at similar price points--for the next few years---taking 500k+ in sales potential and taking 5 times the marketing budget of a Camry or Accord to do it.

It's hard to win a war being fought on this many fronts...

[Intrepidation]

You know it's a darn shame that Lutz didn't take the time to give the recently departed Pontiac GTO and the current Pontiac G8 it's own unique sheetmetal. I might have not been so opposed to those cars if they had taken the time to differentiate the cars and not just make another rebadge of a current model.

I hope they make the new Saturn Aura's sheetmetal as unique as possible, and take the time to do it right.

Thing is, unless you're a car guy, or spend lots of time in other countries where teh Holdens were sold, you'd never know it was a badge job, which is what made it so good. Relatively inexpensive yet unique vehicle for the market. The GTO's styling may have left something to be desired, but not the G8.

This is why the Aura doesn't need to be changed from the Insignia, because no one besides the mentioned people will ever know. It's just wasting money that could be better spent elsewhere, IMHO.

[smk4565]

Ok, first of all Saturn no longer has dent resistant door panels. 2nd the Buick Epsilon should compete with the ES, that is not Saturn's territory. The current 9-3 starts at close to $30k, again not Saturn's territory except for the upper end, plus Saab is a niche brand and the 9-3 is going to be the size of a Cruze, and the 9-5 starts at $38k. No Saturn sedan should cost that much, ever. If the Insignia/Aura is priced at Passat levels ($24k to $33k or so, forget the VR6), it should not overlap too much with the Buick Epsilon, which should start at $31k if comparably equipped to a base ES ($34k). Aura and Malibu should have different enough styling that they attract different customers. Malibu should also be priced as low as $21k for a base model. Even if they attract some of the same customers, the midsize car market is so big, does it really matter? It will likely get even bigger as people move away from SUVs and large sedans but don't want to move all the way down to a compact vehicle.

There is no Pontiac Epsilon AFAIK.

I was thinking about this, and there's no evidence that the vehicle is getting dumbed down. That may be the case in the end, but I am actually wondering if it's just going to be an MCE of the Insignia, or something of the effect, especially on the interior. Insignia will be dated by the time the NG Aura arrives, anyways.

The Pontiac G6 is Epsilon. Saturn made all those adds with shopping carts hitting the car doors, they created that image of cheap car with dent resistant doors, and a lot of people still remember that.

If the Buick Epsilon is $31k that will overlap with the Lucerne. Toyota can build a car for less than GM, so a $31k Buick will have to cut back on things that a $34k Lexus has. Most Aura's sold now are XE models, if people aren't willing to spend $25k on the XR model, a $24-33k Aura probably won't sell. The politics and in-fighting between brands is the real problem, there are too many midsize sedans at the same price point, so they have to design the car to not offend other GM brands, rather than to beat Toyota or Honda.

[Chazman]

Interesting developement...

[The O.C.]

The politics and in-fighting between brands is the real problem, there are too many midsize sedans at the same price point, so they have to design the car to not offend other GM brands, rather than to beat Toyota or Honda.

Hence the age-old problem that GM has refused to address.

[haypops]

The politics and in-fighting between brands is the real problem, there are too many midsize sedans at the same price point, so they have to design the car to not offend other GM brands, rather than to beat Toyota or Honda.

I'm not sure how much in-fighting is going on. Saturn only has 31 employees. Most of these are probably below the intra-brand fighting level we all refer to.

[regfootball]

easy fix for the G8 model line sales......

same v6 and tranny engine combos as the upcoming camaro.

tune it for a bit better mpg than the camaro if possible.

current v6 powertrain needs refinement as the 5 speed sucks. 300hp di and 6 speeds will make the G8 AWESOME. then the press won't dwell on the cliche of v8 fuel suckers.

G8 is one of the most beautiful cars available. They need to get the powertrains right for the times. fixing the v6 will do the trick because not everyone will pay the $$$$ for the v8.

[vt_hokie]

The Pontiac G6 is Epsilon. Saturn made all those adds with shopping carts hitting the car doors, they created that image of cheap car with dent resistant doors, and a lot of people still remember that.

If Saturn gave the Inisignia dent resistant doors, maybe I'd consider buying one!

[Oracle of Delphi]

If Saturn gave the Inisignia dent resistant doors, maybe I'd consider buying one!

Just remember dent resistant doesn't mean scratch resistant. :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

the part that is a nice little capsule example of typical GM. the insignia is a beautiful car inside and out, has cutting edge powertrains and stuff, and the f-ckheads in detroit see/saw no urgency or need in having this product in north america. they see no clue how the insignia if joe customer could in november say, walk into a saturn showroom and have that car available to cross shop vs. a camry or accord, they have no clue how that would help.

cost, f-ck cost. if they can't figure out how to bring a design and feature set like this to north america for a competitive price, on time, and properly marketed, then they all should be cast out on their f-cking asses looking for new work like half the rest of the outsourced USA.

same goes for chinese park avenue, astra with an armrest and mp3 jack and decent motor and maybe a sedan or wagon, g8 with more v6 gusto and a 6 speed, STS with chinese interior, g8 wagon, corsa, beat, hybrids, new flagship caddies, trunk space on a kappa, on and on and on.

Edited July 26, 2008 by regfootball

[Northstar]

The Pontiac G6 is Epsilon. Saturn made all those adds with shopping carts hitting the car doors, they created that image of cheap car with dent resistant doors, and a lot of people still remember that.

If the Buick Epsilon is $31k that will overlap with the Lucerne. Toyota can build a car for less than GM, so a $31k Buick will have to cut back on things that a $34k Lexus has. Most Aura's sold now are XE models, if people aren't willing to spend $25k on the XR model, a $24-33k Aura probably won't sell. The politics and in-fighting between brands is the real problem, there are too many midsize sedans at the same price point, so they have to design the car to not offend other GM brands, rather than to beat Toyota or Honda.

The G6 will be terribly outdated by 2010, I feel. It's not going to be able to compete with the other vehicles by then, anyways.

I don't think the $31k Buick will have to cut back on much... the CTS is $34k and Sigma is a much more expensive platform than EPII.

As for overlapping with Lucerne, the Lucerne is going to be rather old and it appeals to a different group of buyers, anyways. The "classic" Buick buyers buy Lucernes, the LaCrosse needs to attract import buyers.

As for a $24-33k Aura, you may be right, it may not sell. Perhaps this is why it is on hold, because GM realizes this and is trying to decide what to do about it. Perhaps Saturn will go back to selling just small cars and have a lineup something like this: Sky, Astra, Corsa, Vue, MPV.

[smk4565]

The G6 will be terribly outdated by 2010, I feel. It's not going to be able to compete with the other vehicles by then, anyways.

I don't think the $31k Buick will have to cut back on much... the CTS is $34k and Sigma is a much more expensive platform than EPII.

As for overlapping with Lucerne, the Lucerne is going to be rather old and it appeals to a different group of buyers, anyways. The "classic" Buick buyers buy Lucernes, the LaCrosse needs to attract import buyers.

The G6 being totally outdated by 2010 (it is now) is exactly my point why GM has too many brands/models. If they can't afford to update all these models they need to cut back on the number they have, so that every car gets the effort put into the Malibu.

If the LaCrosse is going to steal import buyers it has to be better than the imports. Lexus owners are pretty satisfied with what they have (as are the Toyota buyers that will trade up to Lexus). The only way to get those people is to build a car that is so good they can't refuse it. Only about 1% of trade-ins on the Malibu are Camrys, it is a challenge to get import drivers back.

About the 3.6 V6, it lacks refinement. I've driven the Aura XR, SRX and CTS and the engine is loud and whiny, only in the CTS (it had DI) did it seem okay, but I could tell the car had a lot of sound deadening. Tuning the engine isn't what will get better mileage, they need to cut weight. Make the car lighter, the engine will burn less gas, and a 3.0 DI could replace the current 3.6 and save gas. Aside from the Corvette, every GM product needs about a 5% drop in weight.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What happened to Saturn = Opel, and Aura = Insignia?

It was just another PCS 'fact'... LOL

Maybe Chevy got concerned that the Insignia looked too good relative the Malibu and told Saturn to tone it down..

Too MUCH LIKE the Malibu...

*** I'm willing to bet that it might be too close to the Invicta, since it is essentially the same car. Too bad GM is just now realizing this.

Edited July 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why don't we give the Insignia to Pontiac?!?!

It'd make a fine G6 replacement and the 'different sheetmetal' story could be better justified and GM *might* actually get a ROI on that.

Saturn could focus on developing small car sales, premium OR hippie/greenie/anti-GM and then Opel and Holden could both prop up Pontiac for now.

Maybe the Beat isn't coming because Saturn is getting small cars...

Edited July 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[PurdueGuy]

Just remember dent resistant doesn't mean scratch resistant. :AH-HA_wink:

Actually, they do resist scratches quite well. Simple logic - is it easier to scratch something that's stiff, or something that flexes away from the hard object trying to scratch it? It's not scratch-proof, but they do hold up well - better than sheet metal. Heck, the worst looking panels on old saturns are usually the hood, roof, and trunk lid... which are metal.

[enzl]

Why don't we give the Insignia to Pontiac?!?!

It'd make a fine G6 replacement and the 'different sheetmetal' story could be better justified and GM *might* actually get a ROI on that.

Saturn could focus on developing small car sales, premium OR hippie/greenie/anti-GM and then Opel and Holden could both prop up Pontiac for now.

Maybe the Beat isn't coming because Saturn is getting small cars...

I like the Insignia as Pontiac idea...the Beat situation is stupid, if only because the NY Auto show Beat intro basically invited Americans to vote for their favorite concept of the trio (Trax, Groove & Beat).

The Corsa should be a Saturn--the Outlook was a dumb diversion...

Saturn will return to its roots at some point. Or die.

[vt_hokie]

Saturn will return to its roots at some point. Or die.

If returning to its roots meant US built reliable, sporty, affordable cars with dent resistant body panels, I'd go back to buying Saturns! If it means rebadged European Opels, then no thanks.

[Ravenfreak13]

With the technology we have, I'm sure Saturn could figure out a way to tighten the panel gaps caused by the dent resistant material

[PurdueGuy]

With the technology we have, I'm sure Saturn could figure out a way to tighten the panel gaps caused by the dent resistant material

Or make them less noticable, probably both. I think they overdid the gaps to be safe, so with more study they could reduce the gaps. Plus, all the points where the panels meet are perpendicular to the surface of the overall body panel. If the meeting points were angled, then the gaps would be less noticeable.

How they made them:

panel I I panel

I I

_______I I_______

how they could make them:

panel / / panel

/ /

____/ /______

Since the sides of the panels are also painted, instead of seeing a black void at the gap, you would see the same color shaded. This would help reduce the appearance of the gaps.

There would have to be very strong demand for the polymer panels, and/or a decision to apply them across a wide number of models for them to return, though. A big part of them being discontinued was that it tied Saturn products to one production facility, and hindered flexibility of GM's manufacturing resources. I'd love to see them return too, but I'm not holding my breath that we'll see it anytime soon.

[vt_hokie]

Honestly, I don't think the panel gaps were that bad. I mean, if I look at an old S Series, L Series, etc. it's not like the first thing I think is, "Oh my God, look at those panel gaps!" I'm sure most people wouldn't even notice, and have no idea the body panels are plastic.

[Newbiewar]

so whats the point in restyling a vehicle that gm doesnt sell in this region?

why give it new sheetmetal?

i dont even know what the insignia looks like, im just saying... ship it over here and sell it... quit with the it'll be here in 3 years additude.

put a damn rocket emblem and call it done with

[cire]

I still think that it's a shame that this car will be diluted to fit in with Saturn's brand image and price restrictions. It will end up being a mainstream alternative to the Malibu instead of something that might truly attract new buyers to GM. After all this time, it looks like GM is still content to waste valuable marketing dollars targeting three brands (Chevy, Pontiac, and Saturn) at the affordable, mainstream portion of the market. When are they going to realize that this strategy doesn't increase their market share or attract new customers to the corporation?

I still think that GM could establish Opel as a brand that would appeal to people who normally wouldn't go near a domestic product. Opel doesn't have the market baggage that Saturn or Pontiac have in the U.S. auto market. If GM would build the next generation of Opel products in the U.S. pretty much unaltered from their Euro counterparts (starting with the Insignia), badge them as Opels, and focus the division's marketing on the Euro origins/styling/engineering/driving dynamics of the brand (while downplaying GM's connection/involvement with the brand), then I think they would actually have a chance of attracting new customers and gaining back some market share. I think this move would be much more lucrative to GM in the long term than to continue to give Pontiac "twin-nostrilized", rebadged Chevy clone products or stumble along attempting to move Saturn upmarket into Oldsmobile's place when the brand has become synonymous with "cheap and cheerful" transportation.

[enzl]

The tyranny of the brands.

It's a real pickle.

[regfootball]

saturday i was car shopping and went to a saturn dealer. it was very busy. i went to the chevy store across the street right after that and the salespeople were all sitting on their ass, there was no one there.

[thegriffon]

I like the Insignia as Pontiac idea...the Beat situation is stupid, if only because the NY Auto show Beat intro basically invited Americans to vote for their favorite concept of the trio (Trax, Groove & Beat).

The Corsa should be a Saturn--the Outlook was a dumb diversion...

Saturn will return to its roots at some point. Or die.

Apparently the Groove will come to the US, but as a subcompact related to the next Aveo, not a minicompact like the Spark and Beat.