the chinese are quietly coming state-side!

[Polish_Kris]

http://www.chinacarusa.com

Did anyone know that this was happening? They will quietly import these vehicles out of the blue. Including the updated 4-runner, mitsubishi engineered, isuzu-body -based SUV.

[thegriffon]

Don't pay for a franchise, or you'll be sorry. They don't meet US safety or emissions regs, and the M1 is not even sold in the Chinese market anymore. It has been superseded by a newer model designed by Pininfarina on the same platform. Brilliance's 1.8 Turbo meets the less rigorous Euro4 regulations, but the Mitsubishi engines that seem to be specified are only Euro 2 and Euro3 capable. The JV's building them are not upgrading them further, despite claims by importers, but offering different engines instead (not the latest Mitsubishi/Hyundai/Chrysler engines, but newer than the standard fare offered by Chinese automakers). Most of these cars can't even be sold in Beijing. The real killer, European prices were actually higher than competing European and Korean models, which offer 4- and 5-star safety, much more power, much better economy and actual, not imaginary emission compliance. Prices are high and the manufacturers lose money because well, they are operating a plant as large as any of GM's at a production rate of maybe 10,000 vehicles a year. Many only build vehicles if they get an order from the local government, otherwise a very expensive plant sits idle for months or years. Even with off-the-shelf bodies, frames and engines (designed over 20+ years ago by Isuzu, Mazda and Toyota—we're talking pushrod 8V 4-cylinders upgraded to fuel injection here) from suppliers (of which there are fewer every year, because even they don't have the scale to survive), you can't make any money that way, and you certainly can't make a real investment in product development.

[CARBIZ]

I wonder if this is how it felt when Toyopet went looking for franchees?

[Hudson]

David Shelburg has been trying to import Chinese vehicles for about 15 years. As with any of these ventures proposing to import Chinese vehicles in the near term, I would trust them.

[balthazar]

'would'... or 'wouldn't'? Your post seems to lean negatively (many might say 'realistically')....

Given the tough U.S. regulations and chinese industrial long-standing penchant of ignore rules of industry (& common sense), I'm not expecting any chinese cars to show up here officially for at least another 15 years.

[CARBIZ]

$140 a barrel oil is changing the dynamics on a lot of things, most notably transportation costs. It won't matter a hill of beans if it costs $2,500 to transport a $10,000 car half way around the world.

I've read several articles in the past few weeks about the costs of shipping containers from Asia to North America. It looks like GM has switched production of the Aveo from Korea to Mexico just in time!

[regfootball]

m3 looks kinda nice

[Intrepidation]

I wonder if BMW will sue...

[Polish_Kris]

I wonder if BMW will sue...

These cars were designed by BMW designers for Brilliance. And the Great wall is a 4 Runner platform with Mitsubishi power train, and an Isuzu axiom body. Everyone says the Chinese copy, but they just buy old blue prints.

[Intrepidation]

These cars were designed by BMW designers for Brilliance. And the Great wall is a 4 Runner platform with Mitsubishi power train, and an Isuzu axiom body. Everyone says the Chinese copy, but they just buy old blue prints.

Well I was more referring to the M1, M3, M5 names.

[Sixty8panther]

'would'... or 'wouldn't'? Your post seems to lean negatively (many might say 'realistically')....

Given the tough U.S. regulations and chinese industrial long-standing penchant of ignore rules of industry (& common sense), I'm not expecting any chinese cars to show up here officially for at least another 15 years.

Agreed... Seems that way. I hope it NEVER happens in my lifetime.

My family left communist Eastern Europe in the 1980s to escape

that bull$#it, now my dad's job was taken from him after 18 years

and sent over the the Chinese REDS.

I'd like to send a little "care package" over to Communist China, a

daisy cutter sized nuke. F**k that socialist $h!hole.

[Hudson]

David Shelburg has been trying to import Chinese vehicles for about 15 years. As with any of these ventures proposing to import Chinese vehicles in the near term, I would trust them.

My typo....would NOT

[Hudson]

These cars were designed by BMW designers for Brilliance. And the Great wall is a 4 Runner platform with Mitsubishi power train, and an Isuzu axiom body. Everyone says the Chinese copy, but they just buy old blue prints.

No, many times they copy. They may share the same parts, but they're not licensed from the original manufacturer. The Mitsubishi engine is probably the only thing that's actually licensed.

[Guest aatbloke]

Agreed... Seems that way. I hope it NEVER happens in my lifetime.

My family left communist Eastern Europe in the 1980s to escape

that bull$#it, now my dad's job was taken from him after 18 years

and sent over the the Chinese REDS.

I'd like to send a little "care package" over to Communist China, a

daisy cutter sized nuke. F**k that socialist $h!hole.

Aggression, that solves everything right? Blame your father's employer, not the Chinese. Whatsmore, modern China is a very different animal to the former European Eastern Bloc.

[Guest aatbloke]

These cars were designed by BMW designers for Brilliance. And the Great wall is a 4 Runner platform with Mitsubishi power train, and an Isuzu axiom body. Everyone says the Chinese copy, but they just buy old blue prints.

Great Wall, along with a few other Chinese companies, are notorious for copying designs and infringing intellectual property rights. However, I agree with you in saying that the Chinese copying everything is complete rubbish.

[Sixty8panther]

Aggression, that solves everything right? Blame your father's employer, not the Chinese. Whatsmore, modern China is a very different animal to the former European Eastern Bloc.

Correct. They're worse. In a WW3 scenario USSR probably

would have been sane enough to avoid a nuclear

holocaust... China I'm not sure about.

[Guest aatbloke]

Correct. They're worse. In a WW3 scenario USSR probably

would have been sane enough to avoid a nuclear

holocaust... China I'm not sure about.

At the height of the rigours of the former European Eastern Bloc, the local populace barely had bread in the shops - let alone the ability to shop at stores such as Fortnum & Mason or Gieves & Hawkes for example, as modern Chinese are now able.

While the United States and Britain openly invade other countries to protect their own interests over issues which which are far from black-and-white, China watches carefully and barely makes a sound. However, the moment China decides to flex its muscles over issues which it deems as protectionist - such as Taiwan - the USA and Britain are immediate in public condemnation.

The real problem lies with those of us in the west - who tend to think nobody else in the world has any rights whatsoever.

[Intrepidation]

Just to clarify, when I said I wondered if BMW would sue, it wasn't for the designs, but for the M names. I know there's been a couple legal skirmishes over alphanumeric names before between automakers.

[Guest aatbloke]

Just to clarify, when I said I wondered if BMW would sue, it wasn't for the designs, but for the M names. I know there's been a couple legal skirmishes over alphanumeric names before between automakers.

The British Government's Ministry of Transport should have sued BMW over the M names!

[CARBIZ]

At the height of the rigours of the former European Eastern Bloc, the local populace barely had bread in the shops - let alone the ability to shop at stores such as Fortnum & Mason or Gieves & Hawkes for example, as modern Chinese are now able.

While the United States and Britain openly invade other countries to protect their own interests over issues which which are far from black-and-white, China watches carefully and barely makes a sound. However, the moment China decides to flex its muscles over issues which it deems as protectionist - such as Taiwan - the USA and Britain are immediate in public condemnation.

The real problem lies with those of us in the west - who tend to think nobody else in the world has any rights whatsoever.

Think: Tibet.

If nothing else, the Chinese are infinitely patient. They have and are conquering Tibet by a combination of assassination, imprisonment and intermarriage. In another 20 years there will be no Tibet to 'free.'

It isn't a matter of whether the West feels anyone else has rights or not, it is that we continually make the same error over and over again: we judge other cultures and society's by our own yardstick. Africa is a prime example. We go in and try to 'cvilize' them and look what a disaster the results have been.

The West has underestimated Asia for 100 years. Japan got smart faster, that's all. China has learned and is getting very adept at beating us with our own stick.

Edited July 11, 2008 by CARBIZ

[Guest aatbloke]

Think: Tibet.

If nothing else, the Chinese are infinitely patient. They have and are conquering Tibet by a combination of assassination, imprisonment and intermarriage. In another 20 years there will be no Tibet to 'free.'

It isn't a matter of whether the West feels anyone else has rights or not, it is that we continually make the same error over and over again: we judge other cultures and society's by our own yardstick. Africa is a prime example. We go in and try to 'cvilize' them and look what a disaster the results have been.

The West has underestimated Asia for 100 years. Japan got smart faster, that's all. China has learned and is getting very adept at beating us with our own stick.

The west doesn't treat anyone else with respect whatsoever - and that includes judging others by its own values, which are hardly utopian by any means.

[Polish_Kris]

The real problem lies with those of us in the west - who tend to think nobody else in the world has any rights whatsoever.

Or the mentality that no one can be successful BUT America!

Like many patriotic people on this board who are pissed off that the Japanese are successful in the car business, and feels that only America has the right to be number one in the world!

[balthazar]

Like to see you find a serious quote (not an obvious joke) in the archives of this board where anyone ever said or inarguably implied that. Seems ANY negative generalization, no matter how far out in left field, is game nowadays.

Like many patriotically-confused on this board (and no- this obviously cannot apply to you, CanadianKris) who are happy that the Japanese are successful in the car business, and feels that America has only done wrong on most every front and 'deserves' to be 'punished' and have all milestones undone, ESP in the corporate segment... that's 'victim mentality'; neither welcome nor constructive... it does not identify the problem, admit the problem, or work towards solving the problem.

Edited July 11, 2008 by balthazar

[Croc]

The west doesn't treat anyone else with respect whatsoever - and that includes judging others by its own values, which are hardly utopian by any means.

What, you're supposed to judge other people by...a completely foreign set of values? Sorry, no way. Certain things are just wrong, and always will be. Genocide being one of them.

[Guest aatbloke]

What, you're supposed to judge other people by...a completely foreign set of values? Sorry, no way. Certain things are just wrong, and always will be. Genocide being one of them.

Or invading countries for no sound reason whatsoever.

[Polish_Kris]

Or invading countries for no sound reason whatsoever.

Where do you live?

[Guest aatbloke]

Where do you live?

In Surrey, England.

[91z4me]

m3 looks kinda nice

It sure does.

I wonder how they will fit them on the shelves at Walmart.