Iran...

[CARBIZ]

1. Iran with nukes is a scary proposition.... No.Korea also.

2. Israel needs to sink or swim on their own. We should

STOP being the world's baby sitter, like YESTERDAY. It

only gets us true enemies but wins us no true allies.

3. If Isreal is so much more sophisticated and mature than

the rest of the $ithole known as the middle east, then why

the hell are they still playing by the "eye-for-eye" rules

from the old testament as if it was 2008 B.C. Killing a bunch

of innocent Palestenians by millitary strike IS NO LESS

TERRORISM than a Palestenian blowing up a bomb & killing

a bunch of innocent Israelis.

Have you ever tried to reason with the Ayatollah? Read 'America Alone.' Mark Steyn has spent a lot of time in Europe and the Arab world. Althought there are many Arab 'moderates,' they have little or no say in what goes on. You have to understand that literally MILLIONS of Arab 'moderates' have emigrated out of those countries over the past 20 years or so and are now living here.

Conciliation and mediation are viewed as signs of weakness. If it wasn't for the damn oil, it would be nice to dig a big mote around the entire Middle East and just let them all kill each other off.

[Chevy Nick]

143 days in office; his ENTIRE professional experience. That's 6 months. Can he even turn on the lights in the oval office by himself ?? The worst potential CiC in my lifetime.

Just out of curiosity, where do you rate our current CiC?

[Robert Hall]

143 days in office; his ENTIRE professional experience. That's 6 months. Can he even turn on the lights in the oval office by himself ?? The worst potential CiC in my lifetime.

Considering the worst CIC in history is in the White House now, BO will be a huge improvement.

Edited July 11, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

Like every CiC in history, there have been good points & bad for each one.

I'll tell you this RE Bush tho- I didn't vote for him and I still would not if given the chance again. Answer your question sufficiently?

Doesn't mean the 'other' party is the right answer, either (esp this year). Maybe if the economy was flying high, maybe taking a wild chance on an inexperienced radical unknown would be worth the risk. But what IS known is very unnerving, and is shaking out to very restrictive, very intrusive and very expensive. Now's simply not the time merely to 'make history'.

[Robert Hall]

Like every CiC in history, there have been good points & bad for each one.

I'll tell you this RE Bush tho- I didn't vote for him and I still would not if given the chance again. Answer your question sufficiently?

Doesn't mean the 'other' party is the right answer, either (esp this year). Maybe if the economy was flying high, maybe taking a wild chance on an inexperienced radical unknown would be worth the risk. But what IS known is very unnerving, and is shaking out to very restrictive, very intrusive and very expensive. Now's simply not the time merely to 'make history'.

The problem is McCain is a tired old man that should be retired and playing golf...he represents more the same neocon BS that we've had the last 7 years...

[FAPTurbo]

Maybe American coverage of McCain is different, but our media generally portrays him as a moderate, and a maverick. Plus, it's often I'll hear or read about how McCain has labeled the religious right as 'agents of intolerance' , among other things. Heck, McCain even looks, and sounds less 'conservative' than our Conservative government.

In fact, I think Obama is much like Bush in that he wears his religion on his sleeve.

Back to Iran... now it's looking like the Republican Guard did a good ol' Photoshop of their missile launch, rubbing out a missile that failed to fire. It also sounds like Iran overstated the amount of missiles fired.

[loki]

Killing a bunch of innocent Palestenians by millitary strike IS NO LESS

TERRORISM than a Palestenian blowing up a bomb & killing

a bunch of innocent Israelis.

well since it's state santioned by their "war dept"... that's war, but i basically agree

Your right.

However I view isolationism as we mind our own business until it affects us or potentially harms us. Kind of like Before WWII.

if you're trading and interacting with other countries in diplomacy. it can't be called isolationism. starting wars, and sanctioning countries is more isolating than the "mind your own business" mind set

143 days in office; his ENTIRE professional experience. That's 6 months. Can he even turn on the lights in the oval office by himself ?? The worst potential CiC in my lifetime.

>>"...Socialist Obama or Spend Happy religous nut McCain..."<<

I'm much more comfortable with a non-radical, non-racist religious nut.

BTW, BO had proposed 1 trillion in new spending with no plan on how to cover it- sounds plenty 'happy' to me.

obama is a lawyer, right? Obama says he's a christian but nothing he says, that i've heard about, is christian, so who's nutty now?

BO prolly thinks 1 trillion would be transfered from the war effort since he wants to get ..combat troops out, i think 1 or 2 battalions /month

The problem is McCain is a tired old man that should be retired and playing golf...he represents more the same neocon BS that we've had the last 7 years...

for the past couple years, yes. some of his views were conservative before recently. like when he wanted trials for gitmo people back in 03. but again, niether candidate has held firm idea ground from what i know.

sorry if i seem a little off to day, all wisdom teeth removed earlier.

[balthazar]

The problem is McCain is a tired old man that should be retired and playing golf...he represents more the same neocon BS that we've had the last 7 years...

They say 70 is the new 60! I don't know how "tired" McCain is; his 1000-page health report said he was in great shape.

The problem w/ obama is he's an elitist radical with strong associations with racists, he has a LOT of growing up & learning to do {>>"don't worry about immigrants learning English, they'll learn it... you should be worried about your children learning Spanish! --BO"<<A guy retired from the print pool where my wife works, after 12 years in this country he still had to give his goodby speech in Spanish- doesn't know a word of English yet! Way to be on top of issues!}, tho I doubt anyone with his length of historical associations is capable of personal change- he's indoctrinated. Already some are referring to BO economically as 'an extension of the Carter years'... tho he's been hard enough/inconsistant enough to pin down as to specifics/stance to really support that theory. Take his earpiece out/ his teleprompter away and he stutters, stammers and gaffs alarmingly. Who really knows which ways BO will go?? The prepared stuff sounds good but it's all empty, shifty rhetoric.

Again- no one in this economy can afford his proposals.

[loki]

I heard he didn't have a good speech here, in Cape Girardeau, when he made a stop ...maybe 6-7 weeks ago.

we've gotten a tad off topic. hehe

[capriceman]

Considering the worst CIC in history is in the White House now

Seriously? I'm at a loss for words...

[Newbiewar]

If Obama will pull the troups out 2 battalions a month, we'll still be here for quite some time... whats a batallion maybe 1k soldiers? and there are 120-160k of us here?

Send me home! lol...

no reason rotations cant be 6 months or 12 months... but being here for 15 is too long, too much of a strain...

[Camino LS6]

The problem is McCain is a tired old man that should be retired and playing golf...he represents more the same neocon BS that we've had the last 7 years...

McCain is a conservative without the "neo", to paint him with the same brush as that crowd is just inaccurate. In fact, they don't like him.

The way I see it is that we will be better off no matter which candidate wins. Of course, that's not saying much given the current reality.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Pull the troops out and then NUKE the Bastards!

[Camino LS6]

Pull the troops out and then NUKE the Bastards!

A bit angry today, PCS?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Not at all.

[Camino LS6]

Good.

I guess I just misinterpreted.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Good.

I guess I just misinterpreted.

Please don't confuse me with FOG, we are not at all similar. However I am half German, so I don't mind fighting on two or more fronts at the same time. :AH-HA_wink:

[loki]

McCain is a conservative without the "neo", to paint him with the same brush as that crowd is just inaccurate. In fact, they don't like him.

The way I see it is that we will be better off no matter which candidate wins. Of course, that's not saying much given the current reality.

you may be right, but his voting record in the past ~2 years have been right in line with what bush "wanted". he was outspoken against what was going on with detainees ~5 years ago, but he changed. he's a maverick, but not one that can hold the same opinion for more than a couple years.

[balthazar]

a couple of years is far more reassuring than a couple of months.

[Satty]

McCain's opinion isn't going to matter nearly as much as his VP's, be honest 72 year old men, no matter how healthy their 1200 page medical records say they are, are going to be worn down by the highest pressure job in the world. If he had known that Bush would have a 25% approval rating 4 months before the general election, he may have held his ground instead of moving off to the right. Instead he took a calculated risk, moved closer to Bush to get cozy with the far-right, and now he's a very suspect figure in the eyes of moderates and liberals.

Obama's VP is going to be just as important because he is going to need someone standing over his shoulder, taking some of the responsibility, like Dick Cheney, only not evil.

What does this have to do with Iran? Very little, since both candidates are (hopefully) smart enough to see that the armed forces are stretched thin and unless Iran makes a direct attack on America or American interests, there is no reason to attack.

[79VetteZ06]

I did not want to get into political discussions. But I have to say it once.

Please do not get into Iran. Let us just keep out from the mess, let the European folks, and other Asians who feel it is a rogue, mongrel, terrible, satanic nation take care of the situation. Like Satty said the troops are stressed, our economy is going down the toilet, our infrastructure is on a verge of an overhaul. For once let us concentrate inside rather than outside.

US's position in Middle East is a hyperbole, on one side it supports Israel, yet on the other side it does not want to fester oil rich nations, all of them are against Israel. By keeping no stance policy, we put Iran into dillemma by acting against what they perceive we would react, that is the worst position for the enemy to be in. By reacting to every action they make, we become predictable, and even though we have tremendous capability and technology, if the enemy is inside our head, we have made victory a difficult path.

[Chris_Doane]

Iran so far

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1244400/4383501

[loki]

there is an account of henry rollins going to Iran about 1 year ago i think....

not the one i was thinking of but.

@ http://www.shakefire.com/interviews/henryrollins.html

I would probably sit down with (Iranian President) Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and go “Ok, we understand why you hate us, because we financed Saddam taking you out. Do you understand why we are scared of you? Can you see that? Can you see that when you talk about Israel like that, you offend, bum and outrage a lot of people with the capabilities to squash your f@#king country like a cockroach? Do you get that? Do you realize that we can come in tomorrow and take all your &#036;h&#33; and f@#k your wife? Do you realize that? Good. Hate to do it, don’t want to do it. If you want nuclear power, great. Let’s get the IAEA in, the UN and all of that because there are a whole lot of countries in the world that are terrified of you guys but I don’t want your children freezing in the winter because I like your kids because, you know, they are not anything like you.”

So, I would be trying to sit down with these countries that Condoleeza Rice has drawn lines in the sand with and go “Look. Let’s go back to the intellectual approach of negotiation and hearing each other out and let’s become part of the planet again.” I know that sounds a little Hippee-dippee and liberal but when Ahmadinejad says “bring in the UN. Let’s do it by the book” and Condoleeza Rice says “We are done talking” and John Bolton starts pulling stuff out of his ass saying “Well, you know, they have a ballistic missile program.” You just made that up, dude! They don’t have one that you know of, or if you are asked to comment on it, you say that you don’t know, so what’s it going to be? You can’t lie to everyone all the time because there are some smart people out there that are going to call you out. But, with this Teflon administration, they get called out all the time. And, this is what makes me mad because in my low station on the food chain, I’m held accountable for every bounced check, every appointment I’m late to, believe me. And, these guys just do all kinds of stuff. We already proved that you lied about Iraq. How the hell do you think we are going to go in with you into Iran? I know why we are going into Iran. We want the northern border with Turkmenistan, Caspian gas and oil. That’s my theory.

[balthazar]

I love Rollins, but usually don't agree with his lib political tendancies. Still, I'd be willing to put him in as an international ambassador for a trial run. He has common sense in spades.

Would LOVE to see a chart/ list/ account of exactly when, where & how many barrels of oil we've gotten into our cache' from fighting in Afghan/Iraq.