Range dropping from 600 miles to 360 miles?

[ToniCipriani]

Seems like the justification is to make it cheaper. On the surface doesn't sound too good.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/07...t-gas-tank.html

[ZL-1]

I may be wrong, but I don't think the gas tank will make it significantly cheaper. Maybe GM is facing some 'packaging' issues here?

[Intrepidation]

Uh oh

[CSpec]

Lighter is good...

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not so much worried about how often I have to fill up as long as the fuel economy is still great. 360 miles is longer than the capacity of most people's bladders anyway.

[loki]

I'm not so much worried about how often I have to fill up as long as the fuel economy is still great. 360 miles is longer than the capacity of most people's bladders anyway.

absolutely, unless you're an astronaut with adult diapers. lol

edit:

wording wise, it will still go 400 miles total... 360 miles after initial charge. could also give them room to enlarge the battery a little, or just maximize cargo/cabin room

I'd kinda like to know if they're trying to use HCCI for the motor.

Edited July 9, 2008 by loki

[DBeaSSt]

A typical sedan is usually designed for a range of somewhere around 400 miles as I understand anyway. As long as they don't start shortening the 'electric only' miles I don't see a big problem here.

[Robert Hall]

I'm not so much worried about how often I have to fill up as long as the fuel economy is still great. 360 miles is longer than the capacity of most people's bladders anyway.

Yeah... it's not a car for long road trips, after all. (where would you recharge one other than at home?)

[Camino LS6]

It also lessens the problem of old gas in the tank for drivers that use the Volt in all-electric mode most of the time.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

[vonVeezelsnider]

It also lessens the problem of old gas in the tank for drivers that use the Volt in all-electric mode most of the time.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

It makes sense.

[Windy-57]

It also lessens the problem of old gas in the tank for drivers that use the Volt in all-electric mode most of the time.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

That's a great point. Lowers weight and solves a major engineering issue. Hopefully the press doesn't slay them for this. Also, this may save on development costs, so that may help keep it a bit cheaper. Also leaves some room for packaging - maybe we'll see a Volt Long Range a year after intro??

[tmp]

I'd actually wondered about the old gas problem myself. If I had a Volt (and I would love to have one when it comes out) I would almost never use the gas engine, since I rarely commute more than 10-15 miles. I think I'd rather have the smaller tank and fill it more often with fresh gas.

[PurdueGuy]

+1 for 400 mile range is enough. The only downside is that since 40 of that is electric, then on a longer trip you have a 400 mile range to the first fill up, then 360 mile range to each sequential fill up. Still not a big deal at all. This may be helping the electric range, as the owner will be less likely to haul around a bunch of extra gas for extra range they don't need.

[siegen]

And if GM had kept their mouths shut to start with, they wouldn't have to worry about this.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the gas tank will make it significantly cheaper. Maybe GM is facing some 'packaging' issues here?

I agree that it is probably packaging and size constraints more than anything.

It also lessens the problem of old gas in the tank for drivers that use the Volt in all-electric mode most of the time.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

I guess you could spin it that way. The reality is GM originally said 600 miles, but due to cost/packaging/weight constraints, they are forced to reduce the range to 360 miles. It is not an improvement. The original 600 mile range may have been unrealistic though, but that has been GM's problem all along with the Volt: saying things way too early and then having to make changes, often times compromises that generally don't sit well with the media.

[PurdueGuy]

I'm hoping that this is really a move to increase the all-electric range beyond what was originally promised, personally. GM needs to have some good "surprises" like that to offset the loss of interest from how long it'll take to get the car out.

[CARBIZ]

Siegen's right: if GM had kept their mouth shut, we wouldn't be privy to this up and down development process. My Optra won't go more than 600 km on a tank (360 miles), so this 'announcement' is no big deal in reality. However, the PERCEPTION is not good.

[Intrepidation]

Siegen's right: if GM had kept their mouth shut, we wouldn't be privy to this up and down development process. My Optra won't go more than 600 km on a tank (360 miles), so this 'announcement' is no big deal in reality. However, the PERCEPTION is not good.

Yup, that's why I said "uh-oh"

[daves87rs]

It also lessens the problem of old gas in the tank for drivers that use the Volt in all-electric mode most of the time.

Sounds like an improvement to me.

[hyperv6]

Old gas was a stated problem by one of the engineers at GM they faced. They had yet decided how to deal with it a few months ago and now it looks like they found a solution.

If I had one of these cars, one tank of gas would last me 3-6 months if I use it as I do my present truck. I seldom drive more than 40 miles in one day. My daily range is 25-35 miles.

[CARBIZ]

I wonder if anyone in Detroit has approached Big Development, or at least the mayors of our major cities about 'roughing in' metered plugs for all future condo/office development.

This may be jumping the gun a bit, but over 50% of the people in Toronto live in a condo or apartment. For the Volt (or any other electric car, for that matter) to be of any use to me, I will either have to have a VERY long extension cord, or move to a building that has electrical hookups in the underground.

I'd sure as hell hate to lug those batteries up 11 floors.

[BigPontiac]

Interesting how these GM engineers have never heard of STA-BIL fuel stabilizer. Add a small reservoir to refill like washer fluid and measure/dispense into fuel tank as needed. Warning light to refill as needed. No worse than the Urea treatments they're talking about for the new clean diesels.

[PurdueGuy]

Interesting how these GM engineers have never heard of STA-BIL fuel stabilizer. Add a small reservoir to refill like washer fluid and measure/dispense into fuel tank as needed. Warning light to refill as needed. No worse than the Urea treatments they're talking about for the new clean diesels.

wonder what kind of patents briggs & straton has on their gas caps... lol

[hyperv6]

Interesting how these GM engineers have never heard of STA-BIL fuel stabilizer. Add a small reservoir to refill like washer fluid and measure/dispense into fuel tank as needed. Warning light to refill as needed. No worse than the Urea treatments they're talking about for the new clean diesels.

..

Oh They have heard of Sta Bil but they have to not just fool proof these cars they have to idiot proof these cars. In other words how many gas cars are riding around today with empty washer fluid, Antifreeze tanks while a quart low on oil. We have tire inflation readings now because no one check even their air.

I am sure many will not be checking their Sta Bil till the engine will not start. I can hear it now " I was to fill what?"

One other think I have though of is GM has said the mules have supassed their goals. THe goal was 40 miles on a charge. I ponder have they made some real usable gains? If so I am sure they will not share that till later to prevent other companies working on pug ins any ideas.

We know so little on this car I think even some of us will be suprised at what they end up with. Final styling will be the gratest impact. As Lutz has put a priority that it not be a Prius golf cart like car.

Edited July 9, 2008 by hyperv6

[BigPontiac]

..

Oh They have heard of Sta Bil but they have to not just fool proof these cars they have to idiot proof these cars. In other words how many gas cars are riding around today with empty washer fluid, Antifreeze tanks while a quart low on oil. We have tire inflation readings now because no one check even their air.

I am sure many will not be checking their Sta Bil till the engine will not start. I can hear it now " I was to fill what?"

One other think I have though of is GM has said the mules have supassed their goals. THe goal was 40 miles on a charge. I ponder have they made some real usable gains? If so I am sure they will not share that till later to prevent other companies working on pug ins any ideas.

We know so little on this car I think even some of us will be suprised at what they end up with. Final styling will be the gratest impact. As Lutz has put a priority that it not be a Prius golf cart like car.

So you're saying it's not acceptable for the Volt driver to add stabilizer but it is acceptable for a Silverado clean diesel driver to have to add urea?

[hyperv6]

So you're saying it's not acceptable for the Volt driver to add stabilizer but it is acceptable for a Silverado clean diesel driver to have to add urea?

The guy driving a deisel truck is more inclined to be aware, capable and willing of adding fuel additive vs the average Civic,Camry, Pruis, Maliibu driver that only adds gas because it won't go with out it.

People who buy cars for economy and reliability tend to not check things.

If you want this to work and not have cars have problems you need to take the responsibility out of the drivers hands when it comes to required additives.

I have too many times seen cars fail due to poor up keep or just plain stupidity. Like the time I had a car in where I worked and the woman put tape over the oil light becausr it shined in her eyes at night.

In one trip to work I can see at least 3-4 tires way under inflated. I mean to the point the could suffer heat damage.

If GM leaves this in the hands of the owners most will never make the required addition. If the cars engine will not start it will not be the owners fault it well GM's fault in their eyes.

There are too many people today that in the winter will not clean their windows of Ice or Snow. So what if they can't see. My mother inlaw won't even put gas in the car and makes my father in law do it.

Truck people and deisel owners tend to be more hands on and able or willing to take the extra step. Many would think nothing of changing their own oil or plugging in during a cold night. Just don't expect that from the average car driver. It is not one world.

[BuddyP]

The lack of upkeep of vehicles by people now days is deffinatly getting worse.

Every once in awhile when the wife and I are going somwhere, we'll take 2 vehicles just so I can follow behind and see how tires look and if anything is flopping around, hanging down, looks wierd, etc. Then switch cars on the way back.

And while I may not need to do it this often, I still change oil every 3k miles. Our '07 Aura had 32500 when we bought it, oil life on the DIC showed 55% oil life left at that point. At 40000 it finally hit "change oil". Almost 8k miles and that was only 55% of it! There is no way in heck I'm going to let this thing go 12k-15k between oil changes. That car is on it's 3rd round of oil since we've owned it. I can afford the extra $20 a month.... she drives about 3k a month.

Edited July 10, 2008 by BuddyP

[siegen]

The guy driving a deisel truck is more inclined to be aware, capable and willing of adding fuel additive vs the average Civic,Camry, Pruis, Maliibu driver that only adds gas because it won't go with out it.

Truck people and deisel owners tend to be more hands on and able or willing to take the extra step. Many would think nothing of changing their own oil or plugging in during a cold night. Just don't expect that from the average car driver. It is not one world.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I don't think you can make this generalization without something substantial to back it up.

If there was a tank of fuel stabilizer, it would certainly be the duty of the dealer to fill it up every oil change or scheduled maintenance. And if the owner doesn't go to the dealer and does let it run out, it's not like the car is suddenly going to stop working.

People who buy cars for economy and reliability tend to not check things.

I don't think you can lump Volt buyers in the same group as economy buyers.