Z/28 cancelled?

[Chazman]

http://www.superchevy.com/features/camaro/...tion/index.html

Death of the New Z28 Camaro

writer: Jim Campisano

photographer: Jim Campisano

No sooner did our news story come out about the supercharged 2010 Camaro Z28 in the August Super Chevy ("Bow Tie Briefs") that we got a call from a panic-stricken source at General Motors.

"The Z28 is dead. Call me back," the message stated.

A little history: In said news article we talked about the late-2010 introduction of the top-of-the-performance-ladder Camaro named Z28. The base V-8 Camaro would be the SS with a 400-plus-horsepower LS3, but for those who wanted to go hunting for Shelby GT500 and GT500KR Mustangs, there was the Z28, which we heard would have a 500-550-horse version of the CTS-V supercharged LS engine. Now we have more information on it: The engine was a supercharged 6.2-liter LSA and it made 550-horsepower. Transmission choices were to be a 6-speed automatic or 6-speed manual. It had a bigger, beefier independent rear suspension to handle the massive quantities of torque and horses.

During durability testing in Arizona this year, the car made 200 dragstrip passes, the slowest of which was a 12.40. Most of them were in the 12.0 range. The plan was to produce 5,000 of them annually--less than what Ford sells of its blown Mustangs.

And now the Z28 is supposedly dead, the victim of political correctness, rising fuel costs and economic pressures. All this happened in the last two weeks. It seems some people at GM think it's not the right time to introduce a 4,000-pound, 550-horse supercar that doesn't get 40 mpg.

Worse, we hear one executive hates the Camaro so much that he'll sign its death warrant after the first year if the car fails to sell 80,000 units (essentially, the car's break-even number).

Originally, there was a $25-million dollar development budget for the Z28, which was made into a $12 million program--no worries. Just de-content the car (less body kit fluff, fewer bells and whistles). While this might seem like a lot of money, in automotive development costs it's nothing, the proverbial drop in the bucket. It's less than some of the empty suits at GM get for their annual bonus. There's no question GM is in dire straits. Fuel costs are rising, the stock price is in the toilet and the company's hemorrhaging red ink. Truck sales are dead and so are the high profit margins that come with them. They are afraid the Z28 might hurt its corporate image further in these "green" times. But the way to battle back isn't killing the cars that people want to buy because the tree-huggers might whine. They're going to whine anyway. Besides, none of them buy Chevys or any other GM product, so who cares?

When was the last time you saw a commercial for a Cobalt, an Aveo or other high-fuel economy product? All I see here is commercials for the Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit and other Japanese brands.

Chevy's ad agency, we're told, broke the potential Camaro customer down to three segments:

1. Those who want a V-8.

2. Those who want more excitement in their drive and will get the V-6.

3. People who want a car that "shocks their social network, like Nissan 350Z buyers." Nissan 350Z?

"I didn't once in their report see how they would pull on the car's legacy, like Ford has done with the Mustang," said our source. "They don't know there's a whole market for people who want a weekend car like the Z28 and don't care that it gets 15-20 mpg."

It's time to shock these people into reality. We need to band together and save the Z28, and in doing so, we might just be saving the Camaro. We want to be able to buy a supercharged Camaro. We want to keep the legacy of Chevrolet high performance alive in a new modern automobile. We think 15-20 mpg is great and absolutely palatable compared to our 5-8 mpg hot rods. Most of all, we want to buy a Chevy Camaro, not a Ford Mustang or a Dodge Challenger. Don't force us to defect to other camps.

We did hear from another source at GM that the Z28 is not dead. He said that "every program is on the table, but, frankly, it's premature to post an obituary." He noted that the Z28 could simply be delayed six months. Let's hope. Once upon a time, in the late 1980s, the Mustang was going to be converted to a front-wheel-drive car. There were prototypes running around with Mustang badges on them. There was enough of an outrage from enthusiasts and friends of the car that Ford reconsidered and kept the Mustang rear wheel drive in 1994. (The front-drive car eventually became the Ford Probe.)

Please e-mail me at [email protected], put "Save The Z28" is the subject line. I'll forward all your e-mails to the appropriate people at General Motors. Together we can save this car. But we have to act quickly. There's no time to waste.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Chazman

[Northstar]

Well, that sucks, but there's always the aftermarket for those that want super-high performance Camaros.

[Camino LS6]

Seems the fat lady hasn't sung on this yet.

Let's hope that the morons don't win.

[cletus8269]

Worse, we hear one executive hates the Camaro so much that he'll sign its death warrant after the first year if the car fails to sell 80,000 units (essentially, the car's break-even number).

Yeah just go ahead and do that bean counting suit, you prolly killed my chances at a rwd impala. castrate the camaro and i'll cut my bowties so that they form pentastars... at least they seem to listen to enthusiast that want a little performance in affordable packages

[Camino LS6]

Yeah just go ahead and do that bean counting suit, you prolly killed my chances at a rwd impala. castrate the camaro and i'll cut my bowties so that they form pentastars... at least they seem to listen to enthusiast that want a little performance in affordable packages

Lately it seems that some castration has been going on among GM management. You can't expect a bunch of eunuchs to understand a musclecar.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yeah just go ahead and do that bean counting suit, you prolly killed my chances at a rwd impala. castrate the camaro and i'll cut my bowties so that they form pentastars... at least they seem to listen to enthusiast that want a little performance in affordable packages

Oh it's not a bean counter that wants the Camaro dead, this person is a car guy. Zeta will soon be among the dinosaurs when he has his way. True the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet, but she's standing at the mic, with her new gold sparkly dress on and has just spritzed her throat, and is warming up with a rousing chorus of Doh Ray Me Fa.

[Camino LS6]

Oh it's not a bean counter that wants the Camaro dead, this person is a car guy. Zeta will soon be among the dinosaurs when he has his way. True the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet, but she's standing at the mic, with her new gold sparkly dress on and has just spritzed her throat, and is warming up with a rousing chorus of Doh Ray Me Fa.

No car guy worth his salt would do that.

He and the fat lady should take a hike over to Toyota where they might do some good.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No car guy worth his salt would do that.

He and the fat lady should take a hike over to Toyota where they might do some good.

Well it's like I've said, internally the Zeta platform and those that have supported it, have made many, many enemies along the way, but it seems more and more chickens are coming home to roost. The shoe is on the other foot now.

[Blake Noble]

As long as I get mine, I'll delay my purchase of the Anarchist's Cookbook without question.

[Camino LS6]

Well it's like I've said, internally the Zeta platform and those that have supported it, have made many, many enemies along the way, but it seems more and more chickens are coming home to roost. The shoe is on the other foot now.

In that case it is time for a civil war.

Or a new car company.

[Oracle of Delphi]

In that case it is time for a civil war.

Or a new car company.

The civil war has been going on since I 1st washed up on the beach of C&G, where you been at Willis?

[Intrepidation]

Well with management like that, panicking and killing off models enthusiasts have been dying for, this may be a blessing in disguise for Chrysler. They may get even more sales of the Challenger from potential Camaro buyers who were turned away because they weren't important enough to be worth having the car of their dreams sold to them. Guess whose the only other company that can offer a modern,r refined, RWD muscle car?

You know, Chrysler may go under, who knows, but at least if they die they'll go out with pride.

[Camino LS6]

The civil war has been going on since I 1st washed up on the beach of C&G, where you been at Willis?

Then it's time for my side to use the nuclear option.

[Camino LS6]

Well with management like that, panicking and killing off models enthusiasts have been dying for, this may be a blessing in disguise for Chrysler. They may get even more sales of the Challenger from potential Camaro buyers who were turned away because they weren't important enough to be worth having the car of their dreams sold to them. Guess whose the only other company that can offer a modern,r refined, RWD muscle car?

You know, Chrysler may go under, who knows, but at least if they die they'll go out with pride.

Think we could talk them into offering one with a bed? :AH-HA_wink:

[FAPTurbo]

I might get picked on for this, but I think this is the right decision. I love the Camaro, but does it really need that big, stonking engine that is already slated to be in two other vehicles: the Corvette, and the CTS-V?

[Chazman]

Oh it's not a bean counter that wants the Camaro dead, this person is a car guy. Zeta will soon be among the dinosaurs when he has his way. True the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet, but she's standing at the mic, with her new gold sparkly dress on and has just spritzed her throat, and is warming up with a rousing chorus of Doh Ray Me Fa.

Okay, I can see the logic of why a "car guy" may want a 2 ton Camaro, on a very lonely, underused, assembly line dead. The question is, does this "car guy" want to see new and more appropriate Camaro developed?

[Camino LS6]

I might get picked on for this, but I think this is the right decision. I love the Camaro, but does it really need that big, stonking engine that is already slated to be in two other vehicles: the Corvette, and the CTS-V?

Yes, yes it does.

[Intrepidation]

Think we could talk them into offering one with a bed? :AH-HA_wink:

You never know. There's a group of very dedicated car nuts in Chrysler, who are responsible for such cars as the Charger and Challenger. If they could make a business case for a Rampage I bet they would at least bring out a concept.

I really hope Chrysler can get it's other segment entries together, because if they put the same effort into them as the Challenger/LX cars/Ram, they can pull through.

On another note, I've been torn for a long time over which would buy/buy first: a Camaro or a Challenger. I love both, but in light of this I don't know if I could buy a car that the company which gave birth to it doesn't stand by it and show pride in it. Chrysler does.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Oracle of Delphi]

Okay, I can see the logic of why a "car guy" may want a 2 ton Camaro, on a very lonely, underused, assembly line dead. The question is, does this "car guy" want to see new and more appropriate Camaro developed?

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

[AAS]

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

Good.

[Chazman]

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

Alpha, sure. But is there enough support for an Alpha Camaro?

Edited July 9, 2008 by Chazman

[97regalGS]

zeta was 5yrs too late to market (typical GM).

so face the facts, zeta is dead man walking.

sadly, alpha is not ready for prime time and is sadly late to market (typical GM).

[Intrepidation]

This is the thing. Zeta should be utilized until Aplha is ready. Since Alpha is no where near ready and we have geniuses wanting to kill the last of the Zetas, there'd be no replacement for at least 4 years I bet.

[CSpec]

From what I remember the Camaro only got produced on the old heavy Zeta platform because GM was so open about its development from concept stage onwards. Otherwise it would have met the fate of the other Zetas. I don't think killing the highest performance model really matters anyway in the grand scheme of things. Remember, GM NEEDS MONEY.

[Drew Dowdell]

Zeta is "old" already?

[97regalGS]

Zeta is "old" already?

it is too big, clunky and heavy for mainstream utilization in the world of $4-$5/gal gas. the market will not support it.

kinda like GMT-900 is not old, but sales are tanking.

[Robert Hall]

it is too big, clunky and heavy for mainstream utilization in the world of $4-$5/gal gas. the market will not support it.

kinda like GMT-900 is not old, but sales are tanking.

Yes, if GM had released Zeta-based models 3-4 years ago, they could have had a competitive window with Chrysler's LX platform...but in the new reality, I'm afraid the market for V8 RWD mainstream models is dying, along with BOF SUVs.

[cletus8269]

I might get picked on for this, but I think this is the right decision. I love the Camaro, but does it really need that big, stonking engine that is already slated to be in two other vehicles: the Corvette, and the CTS-V?

cause broke jokers like me dont have 60 grand to throw on a car... thats 1/3 of a house in my woods

[toesuf94]

That's it...I give up. Heading over to the Hospital to get a full frontal labotomy and then fitted with a pea-green metalic Prius. Sure, I will be wearing a bibb ...but I won't care that I will not be getting the Camaro I have been dreaming of since I first sat in a '69 RS/SS Convertible. Oh well, on to a world of not caring anymore!

[Robert Hall]

That's it...I give up. Heading over to the Hospital to get a full frontal labotomy and then fitted with a pea-green metalic Prius. Sure, I will be wearing a bibb ...but I won't care that I will not be getting the Camaro I have been dreaming of since I first sat in a '69 RS/SS Convertible. Oh well, on to a world of not caring anymore!

Chill with the drama..there is still going to be a convertible Camaro, and I assume it will be available in SS form with the a V8..

[G. David Felt]

WOW, So much Drama about a few comments that clearly not many here like, but until the final hammer does fall, everything is still up in the air and possible.

[samy1691]

GM got into this mess because they can only react.......ACT BOLD and BOLD things will happen.....if you go out....go out with your balls in place!!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 9, 2008 by samy1691

[BuddyP]

Ya know, this may affect me... while I have a '68 Camaro project currently underway, it's not going very quickly. Basically, if I can't get this thing close to built in the next 3 years, it will be sold. And if I was to sell it, my thoughts were to use that $$ down on a top model new camaro. Hate to see the Z not make it.

[hyperv6]

PLEASE COME IN OFF THE LEDGE!!!!!!

Here is the exact quote from Scott Settlemire on this topic.

Scott Quote

I posted this on another site -- and I'll post it here.

I am not doubting that Jim got a telephone call from someone -- but I don't know who that is -- and rumors are running rampant here in the Motor City right now -- so --if it makes you feel better -- send a note as SuperChevy is asking you to do ---

now -- that said: without further ado:

"...........Articles like this really put me up the wall -- past the pictures -- and on to the ceiling.

The Camaro (and Z28) is not Dead.

(......in my opinion, there are some in the enthusiast community that hope it does die -- esp. on certain sites -- and that confounds me........not to mention giving a dangerous boost to my blood pressure......)

I don't know how these things get life -- but let me assure EVERYONE -- that every car and truck program out there is on the table right now -- and I think I can safely say that this is the case at the other two American manufacturers -- all one has to do is to look at what's happening to new vehicle sales -- coupled with the housing meltdown -- the budget deficit -- the elections -- the Dow Jones Industrials down by a breathtaking amount -- and of course, high energy costs that are forcing the price of everything upward................

Let us take a quick walk down memory lane - shall we?

The year is 1979 -- interest rates are double digit -- energy costs and inflation are spiraling out of control.......people are "upside down" on their loans for pickups and large cars................

.....................and yet Chevrolet somehow sold 282,000 Camaros -- TEN years into a lifecycle.

Yes -- the times are different -- but I'm betting that when people see the production car -- they see the value that the car offers -- and they see the fuel economy -- we'll sell a lot of 'em.

........I said a long time ago "Have Faith" -- and that's what I'm saying once again.

So at this point give it a couple weeks and we will have more info to work with. It is too soon to jump the gun yet on this.

It is best to let this just play out.

Edited July 10, 2008 by hyperv6

[gmcbob]

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

I hope you aren't BS-ing us PCS. I'd be psyched about a car with Camaro styling and G37/350Z type weight (or maybe even lighter). Give it the DI 304 HP V6, and I'm there!

Zeta is cool, no doubt- I (test) drove a G8 a few months back and I really thought it drove every bit as nice as my wife's new G35, but I could tell that if it were 500 lbs. less (like the G35) it would have felt a little better on a "seat of your pants" level. I actually had this feeling while I was driving around in it that GM would have been smarter to really give this car a Caddy style interior/exterior and market it as a real full size Caddy (DTS). (or just bring over the Buick Park Avenue from China). First off, they could have sold it for $50,000 - and I think it would have been a real awesome competitor for the LS460 - something GM doesn't have in the US anymore (lets face it, the DTS can't compete with the big full size, rear drive import luxury cars these days). That would have been a better use for Zeta in North America IMO.

I dunno - I'm all for a smaller rear drive modern GM car. Alpha sounds like it'll be pretty cool. I hope it happens. Maybe Zeta will stick around as a big Caddy or Buick - that would be a smart business decision. Even with CAFE/gas price issues, etc, GM could still sell a big Zeta as a Caddy or even as a Park Avenue I think.

Edited July 10, 2008 by gmcbob

[gmcbob]

I want to add that in a perfect world, GM should keep the Camaro on Zeta until Alpha is ready.

[SoCalCTS]

I might get picked on for this, but I think this is the right decision. I love the Camaro, but does it really need that big, stonking engine that is already slated to be in two other vehicles: the Corvette, and the CTS-V?

I totally agree. GM doesn't need the Shelby Camaro. How many of these cars could they possibly sell? And all the people moaning that it won't be built would never have bought one anyway. The Cadillac V series and Corvette have this niche market covered.

[CMG]

PLEASE COME IN OFF THE LEDGE!!!!!!

Hahahaha

I think that all the time at C&G, wait and see if it's rumor/gossip/speculation or not.

I believe what I see, not what I read on the internet!

I can't picture GM building the Camaro and bailing out of a performance version. I'll just wait and see for myself.

[Dragon]

given its low production numbers, a blown v8 Z28 wouldn't have much effect on the CAFE number would it? Since the engine and most of the car (except maybe suspension and a few bits here and there) are off the shelf.

So in the grand scheme of things, would killing the Z28 really have that much effect on fuel economy and cost numbers?

[michaelv13]

Does anyone think that the rumor has been sent online "through confirmed GM sources" by fanboys of Mustang, Challengers, and may be even 350z's considering how much potential Camaro has?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah...

Except no Camaro enthusiast wants a V6 Euro-feminine Camaro.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

given its low production numbers, a blown v8 Z28 wouldn't have much effect on the CAFE number would it? Since the engine and most of the car (except maybe suspension and a few bits here and there) are off the shelf.

So in the grand scheme of things, would killing the Z28 really have that much effect on fuel economy and cost numbers?

No... It wouldn't...

This is all about the constant f*cking pissing match that seems to be ruining (/running) GM these days.

[67impss]

Ditto's F O G

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The civil war has been going on since I 1st washed up on the beach of C&G, where you been at Willis?

Which is exactly why you came here.

We were the #1 GM site on the net and we were very enthusiastic about Zeta. So much so that we dedicated an entire project to it's creation.

And you volunteered yourself, or were sent to kill enthusiasm for both that program and GMNA. All for the benefit of you and your colleagues that seek promotions to OUR company.

And people wonder why I want you banned so badly. You are politicking C&G.

[InvictaMan]

The internet is a great tool... and a great weapon. There is a reason why they call these things "viral." Negativity spreads fast on the WWW and things appear more real than they actually are sometimes. Ever heard the phrase "But I heard it on TV?" I came here because I wanted to switch my thinking from foriegn to domestic. My family historically has always been GM buyers and I was told this was a GM "enthusiasts" site. A great deal of what I've seen here in the last year is negativity, one-upmanship and attempts to make those who come here to learn about GM feel ignorant and insignificant. Unfortunately, that happens in most internet communities. It is just so easy when you don't know people personally. I guess we have to look up to the top of the page and read "GM's Biggest Fans and Toughest Critics" to realize that some of the negativity has been invited.

[Intrepidation]

The internet is a great tool... and a great weapon. There is a reason why they call these things "viral." Negativity spreads fast on the WWW and things appear more real than they actually are sometimes. Ever heard the phrase "But I heard it on TV?" I came here because I wanted to switch my thinking from foriegn to domestic. My family historically has always been GM buyers and I was told this was a GM "enthusiasts" site. A great deal of what I've seen here in the last year is negativity, one-upmanship and attempts to make those who come here to learn about GM feel ignorant and insignificant. Unfortunately, that happens in most internet communities. It is just so easy when you don't know people personally. I guess we have to look up to the top of the page and read "GM's Biggest Fans and Toughest Critics" to realize that some of the negativity has been invited.

You don't get better without admitting mistakes and learning from them.

It is a lot more negative than it used to be, but times are tougher now and the company in question seems to be acting irratinal and at times downright stupid.

[InvictaMan]

Don't claim to be a teacher, that's my sister, but I thought this might be a great place to insert this...

Honey and Vinegar Link

Bottom line, instead of slamming GM, how about letting them see how sweet your honey can be (proof of a market for your desires, like the letter campaign) and they might just want to taste it. I know they must read this site, man, how depressing that must be to face ridicule each day.

[aurora97]

Has anyone bothered to notice that this "Z28 is Dead" rumor came a day after Dodge announced price points and options for the 2008 Challenger? Do you think that maybe the boys at GM deliberately started this story to steal from the Challenger's thunder and drum up excitement for the production Camaro? Do you think that perhaps there is a way for the boys at GM to track the Internet traffic on sites like this to demonstrate the potential marketing pool of people who REALLY want to buy a Z28 model? Content like this may be used as free survey data by GM to justify the cost and potential production units needed to really make the Z28 happen.

As far as engine choices are concerned for the different Camaro models, I always thought that the SS was supposed to have a bigger engine than the Z28. Look at the first generation engine/model choices; 302 V8 for the Z28 and 396 V8 for the SS. I know that gas prices and EPA restrictions have put a hold on a wider selection of V8s for car makers. However, I was hoping that GM would make the 5.3L block in the Truck line as a car application for the new Impala SS and Camaro platform. GM could easily have the 5.3L V8 have an output of 360 hp. That would make the the top level Camaro more desireable as a performance car. Instead of using the new 6.2L V8 Supercharged engine, there is still the ZO6 7.0L V8 for the Camaro.

One can only hope that the price of oil will come down to a reasonable level in time for the release of the Camaro. My suggestion to all those who want a high performance Camaro model should stop posting about the untimely demise of the Z28 and start siging online petitions for Congress to start drilling in ANWAR.

[Intrepidation]

Don't claim to be a teacher, that's my sister, but I thought this might be a great place to insert this...

Honey and Vinegar Link

Bottom line, instead of slamming GM, how about letting them see how sweet your honey can be (proof of a market for your desires, like the letter campaign) and they might just want to taste it. I know they must read this site, man, how depressing that must be to face ridicule each day.

Thing is, when Zeta was on and the prospects of the return to RWD for teh Implala, the G8, G8 ST, Zeta Buick,a nd premium Zeta Cadillac were around, and before GM began to panic and start canceling and not making productive decisions (or decisions at all), things began to turn egative. This was only reenforced by the constant news of GM being too busy fighting with itself, and manager's personal agendas, rather than working as a team to make a comback.

Has anyone bothered to notice that this "Z28 is Dead" rumor came a day after Dodge announced price points and options for the 2008 Challenger? Do you think that maybe the boys at GM deliberately started this story to steal from the Challenger's thunder and drum up excitement for the production Camaro? Do you think that perhaps there is a way for the boys at GM to track the Internet traffic on sites like this to demonstrate the potential marketing pool of people who REALLY want to buy a Z28 model? Content like this may be used as free survey data by GM to justify the cost and potential production units needed to really make the Z28 happen.

The logic seems bass akwards. If they wanted to steal thunder, they would officially anounce a high performance model, or release specs, or something like taht, not start a rumor of cancelation.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Dodgefan

[G. David Felt]

I think GM could really strick fear into everyone with an ultimate mustange Challanger killer.

Camero SS 2mode Hybride. This would be the best of all worlds. Killer off the line and 0-60 times with the electric motor assist and yet still have the grunt of the 6.2 engine along with higher MPG rating with Cyclinder deactivation. This would beat them all.

:camarosmile: