Dodge says upcoming Caliber won't compete with...

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103446

$17,000 or so to start-aluminum wheels better be standard, along with that 2.4. for that price-a 1.8-liter I-4 just won't cut it regardless of whether or not it has 130hp-this isn't Europe, and they should've learned something from Chevy with the 2.2-liter HHR models. Have fun losing sales Dodge without a real compact car.

[CARBIZ]

The media carps about GM being caught with its pants down in this new market, but Chrysler really seems to be swimming upstream. Their entire marketing campaign is swaddled in HEMI. At $3 a gallon, I am not sure HEMI is the way to go. Their trucks keep getting bigger and bigger on the outside with bigger and bigger engines, but they are doing big just for the sake of being big - they don't bring anything new to the market. And car sales? Other than the 300, what do they have that is selling well? Dodge will get their asses kicked in Canada where sales of the Aveo, Echo/Yaris and other vehicles are on the rise. Eight years ago, the Neon was a strong contender in the small car department. Lately, nobody mentions Chrysler when it comes to small cars. This will pretty much leave the Cobalt/Pursuit twins to battle the Civic alone. Chrysler is really missing the boat on this one. I am sure the Caliber will do well, but they are going to miss out on the crucial student/young adult market who are very price sensitive.

[Robert Hall]

One advantage the Calibre has over the Cobalt is the hatchback. The lack of hatchback body styles is a real limitation of the Cobalt compared to the Focus, Mazda3, and other compacts, IMHO.

[Robert Hall]

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103446

$17,000 or so to start-aluminum wheels better be standard, along with that 2.4. for that price-a 1.8-liter I-4 just won't cut it regardless of whether or not it has 130hp-this isn't Europe, and they should've learned something from Chevy with the 2.2-liter HHR models. Have fun losing sales Dodge without a real compact car.

Actually, with $3 gas prices the norm now, a car like the Caliber makes perfect sense for the US now.

[BrewSwillis]

Their entire marketing campaign is swaddled in HEMI. At $3 a gallon, I am not sure HEMI is the way to go. Their trucks keep getting bigger and bigger on the outside with bigger and bigger engines, but they are doing big just for the sake of being big - they don't bring anything new to the market.

And car sales?  Other than the 300, what do they have that is selling well?

[post="34993"][/post]

PT Cruiser still sells pretty well.......but I guess that's technically classified as a truck.

Maybe they are leaving room for a truely small car. Maybe something like the Dodge Slingshot based on the SMART roadster:


They also have the Sebring and Stratus replacements coming in less than a year (they have been delayed slightly).

As far as fuel costs.......well they have two new 4 cyl Jeeps comming out, along with new 4 cyl Sebring's/Stratus's......the 4 cyl Caliber and the PT Cruiser replacement. They also have deisel varients of alot of their vehicles, to help with fuel economy.

Chrysler is not GM. They don't have to compete with the volume GM produces. They have one or two cars in each catagory, and that's it. Edited October 27, 2005 by BrewSwillis

[Flybrian]

Yes, what's the real deal? Dodge will have no compact car at all now and its lowest model will be the Caliber? Caliber Stratus Magnum/Charger Nice lineup...

[CARBIZ]

All I am saying it that, overall, it is bad for them. They are barely keeping ahead of Toyota or Honda in overall sales. In car sales, Toyota and HOnda sell the same or more than they do. At one time, Plymouth and Dodge each had 4 or 5 models, as well as Chrysler's. It has been a long, downhill slide for a once proud company. They have too few models spread too thin. I am not saying they have a choice, but each time a college student defects to the Yaris or Focus or whatever, it is another nail in the coffin of Chrysler's market share. No doubt Chrysler has financial/engineering constraints that we can only imagine, but leaving a hole in your segment only invites defection of customers. For example, how many potential customers did Oldsmobile lose because they had no mid-sized car in 1997? GM is paying the price now because it ignored the small car segment for the past several years; only getting religion in the past two years.

[enzl]

All I am saying it that, overall, it is bad for them.  They are barely keeping ahead of Toyota or Honda in overall sales.  In car sales, Toyota and HOnda sell the same or more than they do.  At one time, Plymouth and Dodge each had 4 or 5 models, as well as Chrysler's.
It has been a long, downhill slide for a once proud company.  They have too few models spread too thin.  I am not saying they have a choice, but each time a college student defects to the Yaris or Focus or whatever, it is another nail in the coffin of Chrysler's market share.  No doubt Chrysler has financial/engineering constraints that we can only imagine, but leaving a hole in your segment only invites defection of customers.
  For example, how many potential customers did Oldsmobile lose because they had no mid-sized car in 1997?
  GM is paying the price now because it ignored the small car segment for the past several years; only getting religion in the past two years.

[post="35149"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Chrysler just posted a profit (unlike GM&Ford)...the Caliber will have 2 Jeep sister products and DCX has smart branded cars, small MB's (A/B class) and will sell Dodge, Chryslers and Jeeps in Europe....where small cars sell (& for a premium price).

The new Caliber plant can produce 400k vehicles/yr. What are you talking about?

[The O.C.]

Chrysler just posted a profit (unlike GM&Ford)...the Caliber will have 2 Jeep sister products and DCX has smart branded cars, small MB's (A/B class) and will sell Dodge, Chryslers and Jeeps in Europe....where small cars sell (& for a premium price).

The new Caliber plant can produce 400k vehicles/yr. What are you talking about?

[post="35183"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I predict that Caliber (and Patriot and Compass) will be big hits.....maybe even along the lines of the original PT. It's got style, roominess, and the new 2.4L is said to produce upwards of 170hp (matching the EcoTec 2.4)

AND.....who's to say they can't put the 2.4L Turbo H.O. (230hp) into this chassis?

Could they use something smaller and less-expensive? Sure....and we'll probably see it somewhere down the road....but Enzl is right....Chrysler is the healthiest of the Big 3 right now....

[BrewSwillis]

AND.....who's to say they can't put the 2.4L Turbo H.O. (230hp) into this chassis?

[post="35226"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No one's to say they can't.....because they already have......and are testing it :P :

Cailber SRT-4 Testing Pictures and Article

[sciguy_0504]

The Caliber will be a hit, especially if the weight/power ratio works out well, unlike the original PT. BTW, the Focus and Mazda3 are offered in wagon variants that look better than the sedans.

[daves87rs]

I think it will do well...but I think it should be priced lower..

[Robert Hall]

Yes, what's the real deal? Dodge will have no compact car at all now and its lowest model will be the Caliber?

Caliber
Stratus
Magnum/Charger

Nice lineup...

Huh? The Caliber is a compact...the Stratus is a midsize, the Magnum and Charger are full size...

[ehaase]

BTW, the Focus and Mazda3 are offered in wagon variants that look better than the sedans.

[post="35318"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have never understood why the Focus wagon does not sell better. It is probably my favorite small car, and I would love it with a turbo diesel.

[enzl]

Also, isn't there a confirmed rumor that VW would be sharing the Polo platform with DCX? That would bring in a smaller auto, one that is almost exactly the same dimensions as the original Golf/Rabbit. That would cover the small car end of the market in the states.

[regfootball]

I have never understood why the Focus wagon does not sell better.  It is probably my favorite small car, and I would love it with a turbo diesel.

[post="35569"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

the escape takes sales from the otherwise awesome focus wagon

[regfootball]

chrylser and dodge with their whole hemi based image now and big trucks really has made them sort of a redneck image for a lot of its products. then they have the vans. aside from that, Chrysler is very anti meanstream right now and that direction could very well hurt their long term future. the upcoming stratus replacement is UGLY and will do nothing for them. Chrylser can only ride the hemi and 300 for so long before their well is dry. the caliber is a good start, but doesn't appear to bring anything truly unique to the table. As an example, wouldn't you still just get a four cylinder escape or an Element before the Calibre?

[regfootball]

chrylser and dodge with their whole hemi based image now and big trucks really has made them sort of a redneck image for a lot of its products, taking the redneck crown away from pontiac, (who now has some real cred i feel).  then they have the vans.  aside from that, Chrysler is very anti meanstream right now and that direction could very well hurt their long term future.  the upcoming stratus replacement is UGLY and will do nothing for them.  Chrylser can only ride the hemi and 300 for so long before their well is dry.  the caliber is a good start, but doesn't appear to bring anything truly unique to the table.  As an example, wouldn't you still just get a four cylinder escape or an Element before the Calibre?

[post="35634"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[BrewSwillis]

As an example, wouldn't you still just get a four cylinder escape or an Element before the Calibre?

[post="35634"][/post]

The Caliber is a hatchback/wagon, not an SUV. It not really fair to compare it to the Escape or Element.

Now if you wanted a 4cyl SUV, wouldn't you get a Jeep Patriot before you get an Escape or Element?

Edited October 28, 2005 by BrewSwillis

[jry]

  Their entire marketing campaign is swaddled in HEMI.  At $3 a gallon, I am not sure HEMI is the way to go.

[post="34993"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

where are you at? is gas still that high where you are? if so, i am sorry. here in michigan we're paying about $2.30 for regular no lead (which is what the mopar burns).
sad part is when you add a markup to the wholesale price we should be at about 2.19. when you look at the glut of oil and the overstock of refined gas, in texas, we should be paying a buck something.

[jry]

I think it will do well...but I think it should be priced lower..

[post="35522"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

and you know how this works. mssp: $17,000.00 your price...$15,300.00. and when you think about it, thats probably a lot of car for the $$.

[thedriver]

won't this be competing directly with their own PT cruiser? i think it's a dumb move to abandon the neon. the only reason the second generation failed is because they didn't try to keep the fun feeling of the original, it became a boring car that did no one thing well. except the last minute srt-4. i also think they should have kept the two door, and added a convertible. this is something the cobalt needs badly, a convertible. and dont say solstice or sky, that is a different demographic. think secretaries car. . . Edited October 29, 2005 by thedriver

[regfootball]

The Caliber is a hatchback/wagon, not an SUV.  It not really fair to compare it to the Escape or Element.

Now if you wanted a 4cyl SUV, wouldn't you get a Jeep Patriot before you get an Escape or Element?

[post="35830"][/post]

the caliber by virtue of its hatchback falls into the same market group as vehicles like the Escape and Element and Vibe....smaller 4 cylinder getabouts with cargo room....and buyers, especially women, will compare them that way.

patriot looks ok, but its not a REAL jeep. its a pussified non trial rated version made to look like a jeep.

and already with the Liberty...why would they bother? Edited October 29, 2005 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

the caliber by virtue of its hatchback falls into the same market group as vehicles like the Escape and Element and Vibe....smaller 4 cylinder getabouts with cargo room....and buyers, especially women, will compare them that way.

[post="36144"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wierd...I can't see comparing the Escape, Element with the Caliber...I see comparing the Caliber with the Focus 5dr hatchback and Mazda3 5dr hatchback,and the Vibe... the Escape is a compact SUV and the Element is a box..different realities.


What I find interesting about the Patriot styling is it looks a lot like the old XJ Cherokee (roofline). Edited October 29, 2005 by moltar

[BrewSwillis]

the caliber by virtue of its hatchback falls into the same market group as vehicles like the Escape and Element and Vibe....smaller 4 cylinder getabouts with cargo room....and buyers, especially women, will compare them that way.

patriot looks ok, but its not a REAL jeep.  its a pussified non trial rated version made to look like a jeep.

and already with the Liberty...why would they bother?

[post="36144"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Liberty is rumored to be getting a little bigger along with the new Dodge Nitro. The Patriot is still smaller than the Liberty right now, but the Liberty will get bigger. I believe the Patriot may be trail rated, but the Compass will just be an AWD soft roader.

[ocnblu]

I am looking forward to seeing the Patriot. When does it hit the showrooms? Yes, I think the Caliber competes with Focus ZX5, Vibe, 3 hatch, etc., except with a bit of a trucky feel and look. It may not hurt the PT because it's modern looking... or, it may obliterate it.

Notice the 4 cylinder gas engine is no longer available on Liberty for '06... it has 3.7L standard... paving the way for Patriot to fit right in just below it. Edited October 30, 2005 by ocnblu

[The O.C.]

the caliber by virtue of its hatchback falls into the same market group as vehicles like the Escape and Element and Vibe....smaller 4 cylinder getabouts with cargo room....and buyers, especially women, will compare them that way.

patriot looks ok, but its not a REAL jeep.  its a pussified non trial rated version made to look like a jeep.

and already with the Liberty...why would they bother?

[post="36144"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

......ACTUALLY.....Jeep has announced that the Patriot WILL be "Trail-Rated."

Figure on less outright ability than Liberty, but factor in that it WILL be the most able-bodied AWD, car-based off-roader on the market......far more able than Escape, CR-V, Equinox, etc.

I had a chance to take a new BMW X3 off-road and for a vehicle that has NO pretentions of tackling Jeep or Hummer in the dirt, I was amazed at how competent the new X-Drive system was in the dirt. Things like a well-tuned AWD system, hill-descent-control, and non-sport-packaged wheels/tires really helped.

Remember as crappy overall as it was, the more-car-based LR Freelander AWD was quite competent off-road.....

[Chicagoland]

People are whining about no Caliber four door. But most new veihcles sold are "trucks", so why not make a new prodcut at least look like one? Vibe, Matrix, Scion xA and B, HHR, and other compacts that have a rear cargo area are selling. And so is the PT, up 66% over last year. So, bringing in a different sport wagon makes sense. To some, they see a "wagon" as a "car", and are not '0-60 only' car nuts. Where once buyers bought full sized cars for room, now they get sport wagons.

[Robert Hall]

People are whining about no Caliber four door. But most new veihcles sold are "trucks", so why not make a new prodcut at least look like one?

Vibe, Matrix, Scion xA and B, HHR, and other compacts that have a rear cargo area are selling. And so is the PT, up 66% over last year. So, bringing in a different sport wagon makes sense.

To some, they see a "wagon" as a "car", and are not '0-60 only' car nuts. Where once buyers bought full sized cars for room, now they get sport wagons.

[post="37305"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Caliber makes a lot more sense as a 5-dr hatchback than a 4dr sedan...I've always thought small cars like this are better as hatchbacks--a hatchback is more useful and practical than a small sedan with a tiny trunk..

[Cremazie]

The Caliber makes a lot more sense as a 5-dr hatchback than a 4dr sedan...I've always thought small cars like this are better as hatchbacks--a hatchback is more useful and practical than a small sedan with a tiny trunk..

[post="37581"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It is a growing segment. Most ppl have been buying wagons of late anywhy. SUVs are all wagons to me.

[Delta Force79]

One advantage the Calibre has over the Cobalt is the hatchback. The lack of hatchback body styles is a real limitation of the Cobalt compared to the Focus, Mazda3, and other compacts, IMHO.

[post="35001"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Agreed.

[PeterJ]

The Caliber makes a lot more sense as a 5-dr hatchback than a 4dr sedan...I've always thought small cars like this are better as hatchbacks--a hatchback is more useful and practical than a small sedan with a tiny trunk..

[post="37581"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I could not agree with this more. I'd venture to say every player in this segment, if you had to choose one body style to go with, make a 5-door and forget about a sedan...whether it be a small wagon, a more upright hatch (Focus, 3, Golf) or more of a fastback (Elantra GT). Not only does it make a small car practical enough to serve more than just commuting duty, it usually works better asthetically with the proportions of a compact or sub-compact. Taste is subjective, but I think you could easily argue that the Golf, 3, Focus and Aveo are all much better looking than their sedan relatives.

This B.S. that "Americans don't like hatchbacks" is just that...crap. It's myth kept alive by 50-something baby boomers in auto journalism that can't see beyond their own life experience with cars.

[Sixty8panther]

The Neon SRT4 was a car I actually liked, now it's dead... too bad. It was a bargain. :(

[guionM]

The media carps about GM being caught with its pants down in this new market, but Chrysler really seems to be swimming upstream.
  Their entire marketing campaign is swaddled in HEMI.  At $3 a gallon, I am not sure HEMI is the way to go.  Their trucks keep getting bigger and bigger on the outside with bigger and bigger engines, but they are doing big just for the sake of being big - they don't bring anything new to the market.
  And car sales?  Other than the 300, what do they have that is selling well?
  Dodge will get their asses kicked in Canada where sales of the Aveo, Echo/Yaris and other vehicles are on the rise. 
  Eight years ago, the Neon was a strong contender in the small car department.  Lately, nobody mentions Chrysler when it comes to small cars.  This will pretty much leave the Cobalt/Pursuit twins to battle the Civic alone.
  Chrysler is really missing the boat on this one.  I am sure the Caliber will do well, but they are going to miss out on the crucial student/young adult market who are very price sensitive.

[post="34993"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Everyone in the US is getting out of the entry level market. Chevrolet imported the Korean Aveo, just so the Cobalt could be moved upmarket from where Cavalier was. Ford's also working on a car that's going to be above the Focus, which will probally be discontinued by decade's end, or imported from someplace else.

The costs of production here in the US makes any entry level car below say $17K a money losing proposition. Also, nobody is really buying strippers anymore. PTs outsold same chassis Neons for example.

As for Chrysler swimming upstream, consider these:

Dodge Ram is setting sales records right now (even at $3 per gallon gas).

Jeep Grand Cherokee, also is a massive hit.

The ugly (IMHO) Durango... again, blazing the charts.

The PT Cruiser is still selling at about a steady 90K per year rate.
Magnum is the best selling vehicle of it's type (what we used to call station wagons).

Pacifica is also selling well above plans.

Chrysler's Minivan line still dominates the market in this vehicle class.

Chrysler Sebring is America's best selling convertible (at least till the 1st 12 month tallies of the new Mustang's comes in at the end of April).

The Charger has a stronger sales start than the 300 did, and has been stead ever since.


The 300 isn't the only thing doing well at Chrysler.

And there are 2 cars coming that you probally aren't aware of that is likely to do very well also. :) Edited November 9, 2005 by guionM

[ehaase]

Ford's also working on a car that's going to be above the Focus, which will probally be discontinued by decade's end, or imported from someplace else.

[post="40998"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

What kind of vehicle will this be?

It may make sense for Ford to develop a new sedan/wagon/hatchback on a shortened CD3 platform.

[guionM]

What kind of vehicle will this be? 

It may make sense for Ford to develop a new sedan/wagon/hatchback on a shortened CD3 platform.

[post="41012"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's going to be a sedan that's going to fit between the Futura and the Focus. Essentially, Ford's "Cobalt".

Due by "decade's end".

To me that sounds suspiciously like it's being timed with a redone or replaced Focus.

[Northstar]

Wasn't Ford looking for something to compete with the Aveo? Maybe they go the same route as Chevy with four sedans (Aveo competitor, Focus replacement (or Ford's "Cobalt"), Fusion, and Impala. I assume you meant Fusion when you said Futura, right guionM?

[2b2]

It's going to be a sedan that's going to fit between the Futura and the Focus. Essentially, Ford's "Cobalt".

Due by "decade's end".

To me that sounds suspiciously like it's being timed with a redone or replaced Focus.

[post="41625"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Agreed. I think the new Focus and B cars are going to be part of a slew of offerings all the way up to Cobalt/Jetta size with the Focus name used only for a hot hatch.

[ehaase]

It's going to be a sedan that's going to fit between the Futura and the Focus. Essentially, Ford's "Cobalt".

[post="41625"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This seems to go along with an outstanding post Griffon made earlier - http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...419&#entry29419

[guionM]

Wasn't Ford looking for something to compete with the Aveo? Maybe they go the same route as Chevy with four sedans (Aveo competitor, Focus replacement (or Ford's "Cobalt"), Fusion, and Impala.

I assume you meant Fusion when you said Futura, right guionM?

[post="41631"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Fusion. My gaffe. :lol:

I don't see anyone else (U.S. auto makers) even attempting to compete with Aveo's position in the marketplace because the profit margin would be non-existant unless it was made in Korea or China. At $12,000 list price there's no way on earth you could make any type of profit otherwise, and the market for a car at this price is extremely thin. If GM didn't have Daewoo, Aveo wouldn't exist.

Think about this. Chevrolet sells about 70,000 Aveos per year, but sells 220,000 Cobalts. Ford sells about 200,000 Focus. GM barely makes money on the Aveo, but makes a pretty penny on the Cobalt as Chrysler does on the PT over the Neon.

It's all about getting the most money from their resources, especially now. GM just happened to have bailed Daewoo out, and they are getting some use form them. Ford & Chrysler have no presence in Korea, so it isn't worth the money to try to compete there, and they aren't.

On the other hand, next decade when it becomes somewhat acceptible to import Chinese cars over here, all bets are off since both Ford and Daimler will have operations there. Edited November 12, 2005 by guionM

[Chicagoland]

I think there will be a Dodge compact sedan [with a hatch] but called a different name, just like there is a Charger and a Magnum.