Report: GM mulls job cuts, sale of brands

[Oracle of Delphi]

July 7, 2008 07:15 CET

UPDATED: 0/07/08 11:33 CET

LONDON (Thomson Financial) -- General Motors could shed thousands of white-collar jobs and sell or cease producing certain brands as part of a strategy reevaluation, said the Wall Street Journal, citing people familiar with the matter.

The job cuts are expected to be approved at a meeting of the GM board in early August. The management may also suggest options for raising additional cash to help GM make it through the downturn, and may discuss cutting certain brands, the sources said.

A company spokesman declined to comment on either the job or brand cuts, said the report.

GM sells under eight different brands, but most, including Buick, Saturn and Saab, struggle to attract buyers. The company has already decided to put its Hummer division up for sale and prospective buyers are thought to include Mahindra & Mahindra.

On the job cuts, GM employs 76,000 white-collar workers globally, with the bulk of the force based in North America, said the report.

In the past few years, as GM has run up massive losses, some board members and some executives have on occasion raised questions about its plethora of brands, only to be rebuffed by CEO Rick Wagoner, the paper said.

The company, hit by rising oil and raw material prices, the credit crunch and the housing downturn, will need to raise as much as $15 billion (9.6 billion euros) in cash to shore up liquidity and bankruptcy is "not impossible" if the U.S. auto market continues to slump, Merrill Lynch said last week.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/article/20080707/A...238376/1128/ANE

I doubt it will be any of the brands mentioned other than HUMMER, conventional wisdom inside GM says it will be Pontiac and GMC, but August is only a month away, hopefully we'll all know by then.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[DBeaSSt]

Similar article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080707/bs_nm/gm_jobs_dc_1

Interesting that this time 'white collar' jobs are specifically mentioned.

[CSpec]

In the past few years, as GM has run up massive losses, some board members and some executives have on occasion raised questions about its plethora of brands, only to be rebuffed by Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.

Looks like it's about to hit the fan at GM...

[Intrepidation]

Just read this on Autoblog. It's gonna get ugly.

[hyperv6]

Many companys have gone through this as they just did not evolve enough over time.

The good news is GM will remain with us and be much stronger. The bad news is some history and tradition will be gone.

GMC needs to be cut. Pontiac has little to offer and will take a lot of money to repair. Buick is left for the Chinese. Saab is best sold off with Hummer.

A Chevy Cadillac and Satun may be all we are left with and while it is sad these cars will get the money and attention to bring GM to where it needs to be.

You can raise 12 ok on you single pay check but you can better afford to provide for 3.

I have seen Goodyear sell off their oil pipe line, Aerospace, Belt and hose, Chemical and other divisions. This was a sad day but if it was not done Goodyear would have been gone altogher. Today Goodyear is back to it's core and making money.

We can all cry point fingers and complain but the time has come to play ball and the name of the game is to make money. GM will but there are going to have to be some painful changes. Better to have three stong NA divisions vs 5-6 weak ones that die together.

I have a garage of Pontiac and GMC's so don't think I hate to see this. But it is time to think with our brains not our hearts. Heritage does not pay the bills anymore in this what have you done for me latley scociety.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Well, if 2009 will be GMCs last year of production, I will ask GMAC to allow me to get out of my lease early without penalty, and regardless of gas prices, get the GMC Sierra I've always wanted. I will hate to see it go, and have no option but to sit on the sidelines (like my fellow Oldsmobile friends) and watch GM destroy my favorite division. Like FOG mentioned in another thread, GM is in panic mode due to the current economical situation and they're making rash decisions to "save" money. I guess the fact that being the #2 volume seller for GM doesn't matter once your market shrinks as other factors come into play

[BuddyP]

Saab is doing nothing for GM, and to have both Chevy and GMC trucks is kinda rediculas. I can see both of them going away. Hummer is pretty much worthless (dollar wise) with today's gas. Might as well just keep Hummer and focus on them making the high price hybrid trucks that nobody is looking at on the Chevy lots (tahoe hybrid). Hummer is a premium truck brand and would make sense to put the high price "premium" hybrid drive in those units.

[CSpec]

Many companys have gone through this as they just did not evolve enough over time.

The good news is GM will remain with us and be much stronger. The bad news is some history and tradition will be gone.

GMC needs to be cut. Pontiac has little to offer and will take a lot of money to repair. Buick is left for the Chinese. Saab is best sold off with Hummer.

A Chevy Cadillac and Satun may be all we are left with and while it is sad these cars will get the money and attention to bring GM to where it needs to be.

You can raise 12 ok on you single pay check but you can better afford to provide for 3.

I have seen Goodyear sell off their oil pipe line, Aerospace, Belt and hose, Chemical and other divisions. This was a sad day but if it was not done Goodyear would have been gone altogher. Today Goodyear is back to it's core and making money.

We can all cry point fingers and complain but the time has come to play ball and the name of the game is to make money. GM will but there are going to have to be some painful changes. Better to have three stong NA divisions vs 5-6 weak ones that die together.

I have a garage of Pontiac and GMC's so don't think I hate to see this. But it is time to think with our brains not our hearts. Heritage does not pay the bills anymore in this what have you done for me latley scociety.

Good post. GM NEEDS MONEY. That's the only reason they exist. Anything they do to return to profitability must be done as quickly as possible.

[deftonesfan867]

Not sure how much of this I would take heed to. It IS the WSJ afterall. Same paper who said the Volt will get 16mpg if lucky....

Edited July 7, 2008 by deftonesfan867

[Intrepidation]

Here's a thought: Invest real money into class leading products, advertsiements for them, and don't take 10 years to develope them...rather than trying to save a buck and continue down the road with mostly mediocre to average product.

[daves87rs]

Many companys have gone through this as they just did not evolve enough over time.

The good news is GM will remain with us and be much stronger. The bad news is some history and tradition will be gone.

GMC needs to be cut. Pontiac has little to offer and will take a lot of money to repair. Buick is left for the Chinese. Saab is best sold off with Hummer.

A Chevy Cadillac and Satun may be all we are left with and while it is sad these cars will get the money and attention to bring GM to where it needs to be.

You can raise 12 ok on you single pay check but you can better afford to provide for 3.

I have seen Goodyear sell off their oil pipe line, Aerospace, Belt and hose, Chemical and other divisions. This was a sad day but if it was not done Goodyear would have been gone altogher. Today Goodyear is back to it's core and making money.

We can all cry point fingers and complain but the time has come to play ball and the name of the game is to make money. GM will but there are going to have to be some painful changes. Better to have three stong NA divisions vs 5-6 weak ones that die together.

I have a garage of Pontiac and GMC's so don't think I hate to see this. But it is time to think with our brains not our hearts. Heritage does not pay the bills anymore in this what have you done for me latley scociety.

QFT

GM is in a lot worse shape then people realize....and wall street has them by the balls...So, what do you think they are going to do?

Things are set in motion that will cause people to leave this board in digust......

Then again, the car we know will change so much....

[loki]

i'm guessing gm might be regretting selling GMAC....

[CARBIZ]

i'm guessing gm might be regretting selling GMAC....

With the mortgage meltdown, selling off 51% of GMAC looks like the BEST thing GM has done in the past couple years. Cerebrus must be the one doing the regretting here.

[FAPTurbo]

I don't see a future for HUMMER, simply because the name itself is associated with 'gas-guzzling' and excess. I'm sure GM could have remedied that with a product like the H4, or more efficient engines, but instead, they just had to go and make an H3 with a useless box.

Whatever brand goes, here's hoping SAAB goes away with it.

[thegriffon]

GM is denying any brand is under review except for Hummer.

[turbo200]

a couple of points come to my mind

- GM needs a great PR dept, especially in these times, they need creative formulated messages that are focused at improving all the chatter. it's probably too late coming to avoid this negative discussion, and there probably isn't a cogent message that would stem all the negative talk, giving GM's own admission all options were under consideration, but I think they could really still benefit from a little positive talk. [ to the many who hate the media, GM's own mouthpiece fails to deflect any attention]

- the strategy going forward is crucial. I'm not saying this from a brand-biased perspective, but there really has to be clear thinking and not panic mode mindset on what makes to stick with going down the line, what markets have been proven to be there already, the most critical points for each brnad. for example, GMC has proven a great ability to attract luxury truck buyers, a la Denali, does that mean downsizing and focusing only on that market would be a bad thing? pontiac has proven they can attract buyers in the mainstream market. buick doens't have much of a market presence anymore. saab is a niche force, but especially consistent over the years in design theme so they are immediately recognizable as well as being well regarded as a premium product. saturn has only proven able to attract in volume numbers, at volume prices, in small cars and SUVs; they have a limited history and incosistent product message, which can both be bad things when you're trying to set up a brand and legacy, in the face of all the competing brands with market presence today. hummer is somewhat of an overlap division given GMC should be there already, but have proven adept at crafting a unique styling presence.

in the face of mounting pressures, decisions i guess will have to made, whatever needs to happen to keep GM alive. but they consider their options carefully. I don't mean to make my stance into an anti-Saturn one, but it seems foolish to make an assumption like if we build the product, under an unknown brand, they will come, and then to say if we just distribute the brand as much as the others, it will be able to attract more people. Saturn is cheap because it's just Opel, but this should not be the strongest rationalization for keeping it around.

my bottom line about this situation. it's much easier to move forward with an established entity and just remake it then it is to establish an identity. check all the brands in the past ten years. and look how long it's taken someone like hyundai and kia to move forward, at that with a complete budget-priced model. establishing a brand here in a time when there are too many brands, too many competing for floor space, mental share, too many branding concepts to deal with already seems foolish to me. go with the one that's already there.

Edited July 7, 2008 by turbo200

[balthazar]

>>"...I have seen Goodyear sell off their oil pipe line, Aerospace, Belt and hose, Chemical and other divisions. This was a sad day but if it was not done Goodyear would have been gone altogher. Today Goodyear is back to it's core and making money."<<

Just pointing out RE your example: Pontiac & GMC, etc ARE GM's core. GM has already 'reverse-diversified' (Hughes, EDS, Euclid, Terex, ElectroMotive, GMAC, etc). If Goodyear did what GM is supposedly considering, it would be discontinuing/ selling off 60% of it's lines of tires.

Edited July 7, 2008 by balthazar

[wildcat]

GM is denying any brand is under review except for Hummer.

At automotivenews.com, the headline reads "GM denies any more brands under review," but the text of the story states, "A General Motors spokesman today denied the automaker is reviewing any more brands besides Hummer for possible sale."

I added the bold, suspecting it means they won't be selling GMC and Pontiac, but will instead just close them.

[Camino LS6]

Pure foolishness to kill GMC or Pontiac - Buick, Saturn,Saab and Hummer are the marginal sellers in our market.

So how can it make any sense whatsoever to consider GMC or Pontiac for elimination?

Just stupid to even entertain such a "plan".

[Satty]

So how can it make any sense whatsoever to consider GMC or Pontiac for elimination?

They can roll *most* of Pontiac and GMC's customers over to Chevy. I'm sure 85% of those Grand Am buyers (aka Pontiac buyers) would have bought GM regardless.

[Camino LS6]

They can roll *most* of Pontiac and GMC's customers over to Chevy. I'm sure 85% of those Grand Am buyers (aka Pontiac buyers) would have bought GM regardless.

That's garbage, Satty.

[turbo200]

They can roll *most* of Pontiac and GMC's customers over to Chevy. I'm sure 85% of those Grand Am buyers (aka Pontiac buyers) would have bought GM regardless.

on the pontiac front, these are cars that have worn distinct fascias over the years. yes, the differentiation of content wasn't strong, yes the product message wasn't consistent, but it's still there to the layman that these cars wore wrappers that were distinctive and aggressive. i don't think this buyer is the same as the everyday casual now and used to be just plain generic and sometimes ugly Chevy guy. i don't disagree with the premise that many will shift over to Chevy; but I also think many would go for a sporty car from some other place. rather than the casual chevy in the mold of upcoming malibu [especially].

[Satty]

That's garbage, Satty.

No, the badge engineered crap that sold solely on incentives over the last 20 years that put Pontiac in this situation was garbage.

[Camino LS6]

No, the badge engineered crap that sold solely on incentives over the last 20 years that put Pontiac in this situation was garbage.

Now that is somewhat true.

But Grand Ams are not in any way relevent anymore, and the lesson of Oldsmobile is.

Close Pontiac, and GM will suffer for it: guaranteed.

[Satty]

The G6 is still the best selling Pontiac, by far.

[Camino LS6]

The G6 is still the best selling Pontiac, by far.

Yes it is, and that makes my case. The Aura can't touch it and it reaches a demographic that Malibu does not.

[Satty]

You're ok with the fact that Pontiac is sustaining on a Malibu clone, and will continue to do so in the future?

[Camino LS6]

You're ok with the fact that Pontiac is sustaining on a Malibu clone, and will continue to do so in the future?

Well, if it allows Pontiac to also offer something I would buy, then yes. But the G6 is hardly a clone, it came first, looks totally different, and offers more bodystyles. I don't care for the car myself, but it works well for Pontiac right now.

[turbo200]

You're ok with the fact that Pontiac is sustaining on a Malibu clone, and will continue to do so in the future?

no. and to better manage thier brands in the future, GM will have to look to actual content differentiation to establish a strong image and perception amongst buyers. but if they suddenly give up now, they may as well do so with every brand, cause everyone of thier brands has had a muddied image and is no where near as cemented as brands like Acura, Nissan, Honda, etc

similarly, on incentives, if we were to close every brand from GM that has had vehicles relying solely on incentives we'd be left with no brand. maybe the CTS and vette, off the top of my head, are the only vehicles that haven't relied heavily on incentives in the past decade.

EDIT: reg and a couple others were arguing in favor of GM's badge engineering recently. that right there is the biggest culprit, like was said above, of GM's recent downfall. not leveraging thier design power over the years, not maintaining product and design consistency over the years, never allowing the brands to stand for something strong other than similar cars with sub-Japanese levels of efficiency, design quality, durability has gotten them to where they are today.

Edited July 8, 2008 by turbo200

[Satty]

The couple/vert can be rolled over to either Chevy or Saturn. Hell, a Eurosport package a la the 1985 Celebrity could bridge the appearance gap between the Malibu and G6. The G6, and therefore Pontiac, is redundancy for the sake of redundancy. The Firebird, Solstice, GTO and G8 didn't bring anything to the bottom line, which is, in the end, what matters.

[Camino LS6]

no. and to better manage thier brands in the future, GM will have to look to actual content differentiation to establish a strong image and perception amongst buyers. but if they suddenly give up now, they may as well do so with every brand, cause everyone of thier brands has had a muddied image and is no where near as cemented as brands like Acura, Nissan, Honda, etc

similarly, on incentives, if we were to close every brand from GM that has had vehicles relying solely on incentives we'd be left with no brand. maybe the CTS and vette, off the top of my head, are the only vehicles that haven't relied heavily on incentives in the past decade.

True.

I'd love to eventually see an Alpha replace the G6, but right now survival is the name of the game - and the G6 is helping.

I see the notion of Killing Pontiac as anti-survival for GM.

[Camino LS6]

The couple/vert can be rolled over to either Chevy or Saturn. Hell, a Eurosport package a la the 1985 Celebrity could bridge the appearance gap between the Malibu and G6. The G6, and therefore Pontiac, is redundancy for the sake of redundancy. The Firebird, Solstice, GTO and G8 didn't bring anything to the bottom line, which is, in the end, what matters.

But why?

Saturn has been worse than useless to the bottom line for its entire existence.

[turbo200]

The couple/vert can be rolled over to either Chevy or Saturn. Hell, a Eurosport package a la the 1985 Celebrity could bridge the appearance gap between the Malibu and G6. The G6, and therefore Pontiac, is redundancy for the sake of redundancy. The Firebird, Solstice, GTO and G8 didn't bring anything to the bottom line, which is, in the end, what matters.

firebird, solstice, et al helped bring credebility to a performance statement missing from their mass market product. logic shows the specialty cars are not where the volume is. yes, the volume is in the mass market cars like the G6 and the G5. with pontiac there was never follow through, the engineering and quality and actual performance attributes skipped the mass market cars and stayed with the halo 'promise' cars. the promise of good performance and good image was there, but never backed up through the most important product. i'm simply saying the brand hasn't been given the chance with high quality mainstream offerings. they are nothing more than a chevy rebadge, but they are not redundancy. they are distinctive, Saturn and Chevy are conservative, tepid relative to Pontiac. Pontiac is an extreme. that could be kept alive, and I would think it more necessary than a nondescript brand, albeit cheaply funded via Opel, Saturn brand

[Satty]

As goes Pontiac, so goes GM? Not exactly. As goes Chevy, so goes GM, at least in the U.S. Volume is the name of the game. Toyota makes a ton of money in the state with 2 1/3 brands, Honda does it with 2. They do it by focusing on core models and maximizing profitability. The best way for GM to compete is pare itself down to Chevy, Buick and Cadillac. Chevy can do the mainstream thing, Buick can do the Lexus/ low-endMercedes/Audi thing while Cadillac can do the BMW/Infiniti/high-end Mercedes thing. All the superfluous stuff in between (Pontiac, GMC, and yes, Saturn) just takes resources away.

[Camino LS6]

firebird, solstice, et al helped bring credebility to a performance statement missing from their mass market product. logic shows the specialty cars are not where the volume is. yes, the volume is in the mass market cars like the G6 and the G5. with pontiac there was never follow through, the engineering and quality and actual performance attributes skipped the mass market cars and stayed with the halo 'promise' cars. the promise of good performance and good image was there, but never backed up through the most important product. i'm simply saying the brand hasn't been given the chance with high quality mainstream offerings. they are nothing more than a chevy rebadge, but they are not redundancy. they are distinctive, Saturn and Chevy are conservative, tepid relative to Pontiac. Pontiac is an extreme. that could be kept alive, and I would think it more necessary than a nondescript brand, albeit cheaply funded via Opel, Saturn brand

Exactly.

Especially since the "Sopals" aren't exactly flying off the lots.

[Camino LS6]

As goes Pontiac, so goes GM? Not exactly. As goes Chevy, so goes GM, at least in the U.S. Volume is the name of the game. Toyota makes a ton of money in the state with 2 1/3 brands, Honda does it with 2. They do it by focusing on core models and maximizing profitability. The best way for GM to compete is pare itself down to Chevy, Buick and Cadillac. Chevy can do the mainstream thing, Buick can do the Lexus/ low-endMercedes/Audi thing while Cadillac can do the BMW/Infiniti/high-end Mercedes thing. All the superfluous stuff in between (Pontiac, GMC, and yes, Saturn) just takes resources away.

This thinking is dead wrong and will kill GM in its entirety in short order.

[Satty]

People probably said that about Olds 8 years ago. Gm is still around, and in a better, though still crappy, position.

[Camino LS6]

When you get right down to it a few things come to mind:

- GM can't afford to kill any brands right now even if they want to.

- Killing brands solves nothing

- Killing models that aren't performing is the way to go with very well-thought-out introductions coming when they make sense (without rebadges) and finally defining the brands in a real and obvious way.

... and maybe killing Saturn when they can afford to.

[turbo200]

As goes Pontiac, so goes GM? Not exactly. As goes Chevy, so goes GM, at least in the U.S. Volume is the name of the game. Toyota makes a ton of money in the state with 2 1/3 brands, Honda does it with 2. They do it by focusing on core models and maximizing profitability. The best way for GM to compete is pare itself down to Chevy, Buick and Cadillac. Chevy can do the mainstream thing, Buick can do the Lexus/ low-endMercedes/Audi thing while Cadillac can do the BMW/Infiniti/high-end Mercedes thing. All the superfluous stuff in between (Pontiac, GMC, and yes, Saturn) just takes resources away.

on this point I'm in agreement but view things differently. I agree we should focus in on core models. Who's to say the Pontiac sports sedan isn't a core model? What about the GMC luxury SUV? The one for higher end consumers who are not rolling in dough like the $60-80k Escalade buyers are, or prefer to be seen in something less visually pronounced. we're in a depressed economy so a lot more people have become the practical car buyer. if we can hopefully pull out of this, the reverse will happen and people will feel comfortable to shop in more 'excess' terms, like getting a sporty sedan over a conservative fuel miser.

[Camino LS6]

People probably said that about Olds 8 years ago. Gm is still around, and in a better, though still crappy, position.

Not really better, and those customers were lost.

Also, they have yet to actually do what they have said as far as brand definition and consolidation goes.

They always change direction before they complete step #1

[Camino LS6]

on this point I'm in agreement but view things differently. I agree we should focus in on core models. Who's to say the Pontiac sports sedan isn't a core model? What about the GMC luxury SUV? The one for higher end consumers who are not rolling in dough like the $60-80k Escalade buyers are, or prefer to be seen in something less visually pronounced. we're in a depressed economy so a lot more people have become the practical car buyer. if we can hopefully pull out of this, the reverse will happen and people will feel comfortable to shop in more 'excess' terms, like getting a sporty sedan over a conservative fuel miser.

Which is exactly why GM needs to keep it's toes in all segments with at least one model.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Here's what I see happening brandwise, should not be nothing new to y'all, only been saying it for over a year now. Here is how I think the sales channels will align in North America

Chevrolet (Stand alone Value Worldwide Brand)

Buick/Saab/Saturn (Mid-Lux North American Brands) Sold in the same dealerships that use to house BPG, that way no dealerships close.

Cadillac (Stand alone Luxury Worldwide Brand)

So in simple terms you would have GOOD, BETTER, BEST!

Hummer will be sold off, Pontiac and GMC will be shown the Oldsmobile door. If things get really tight with money, I see the Saturn name going away in favor of Opel, the Holden name could go away and its factory in Australia converted to produce GMDAT vehicles including AVEO, BEAT, etc. That would give GM extra capacity to ship those cars to India and China. I also see a plant in North America converted to produce the same cars here.

I see nothing happening to GME in Europe, South America, or in Africa, as it makes money there, so GM won't screw with it.

But let's see what the GM Board decides next month, it should be very, very interesting. I told you, you would need lots of popcorn this year.

[Robert Hall]

Yes it is, and that makes my case. The Aura can't touch it and it reaches a demographic that Malibu does not.

I wonder what the fleet percentage is for the G6, though...Avis and Alamo seem to love 'em..

[Camino LS6]

Here's what I see happening brandwise, should not be nothing new to y'all, only been saying it for over a year now. Here is how I think the sales channels will align in North America

Chevrolet (Stand alone Value Worldwide Brand)

Buick/Saab/Saturn (Mid-Lux North American Brands) Sold in the same dealerships that use to house BPG, that way no dealerships close.

Cadillac (Stand alone Luxury Worldwide Brand)

So in simple terms you would have GOOD, BETTER, BEST!

Hummer will be sold off, Pontiac and GMC will be shown the Oldsmobile door. If things get really tight with money, I see the Saturn name going away in favor of Opel, the Holden name could go away and its factory in Australia converted to produce GMDAT vehicles including AVEO, BEAT, etc. That would give GM extra capacity to ship those cars to India and China. I also see a plant in North America converted to produce the same cars here.

I see nothing happening to GME in Europe, South America, or in Africa, as it makes money there, so GM won't screw with it.

But let's see what the GM Board decides next month, it should be very, very interesting. I told you, you would need lots of popcorn this year.

It's all over if that happens.

[turbo200]

Here's what I see happening brandwise, should not be nothing new to y'all, only been saying it for over a year now. Here is how I think the sales channels will align in North America

Chevrolet (Stand alone Value Worldwide Brand)

Buick/Saab/Saturn (Mid-Lux North American Brands) Sold in the same dealerships that use to house BPG, that way no dealerships close.

Cadillac (Stand alone Luxury Worldwide Brand)

So in simple terms you would have GOOD, BETTER, BEST!

Hummer will be sold off, Pontiac and GMC will be shown the Oldsmobile door. If things get really tight with money, I see the Saturn name going away in favor of Opel, the Holden name could go away and its factory in Australia converted to produce GMDAT vehicles including AVEO, BEAT, etc. That would give GM extra capacity to ship those cars to India and China. I also see a plant in North America converted to produce the same cars here.

I see nothing happening to GME in Europe, South America, or in Africa, as it makes money there, so GM won't screw with it.

But let's see what the GM Board decides next month, it should be very, very interesting. I told you, you would need lots of popcorn this year.

i guess the immediate thing that pops in my head is how are you going to explain to dealers they're going to be moving less volume, with less models and less brands....and the same amount of dealers. there's bound to be some closures here, considering what you lay out....saturn and saab account for a fraction of GMC and Pontiac volume. from a volume perspective it doesn't make a whole heckuva lotta sense to follow the plan you're proposing....and mostly it seems you want to keep two brands alive that are sold worldwide, one with less volume than GMC or Pontiac in America [saab only sells 200k worldwide], and another that is simply a name for the mainstream cookie cutter brand in Europe.

though i recognize the importance going down the line of product that can be sold internationally, i think we must also serve the interests when profit is in the equation. we're still a big market here, and that needs to be stated and supported. GM needs to figure out how to build vehicles profitably and once again make money in the States, where there still is a ginourmous market.

the only solid reason you're giving in favor of Saturn and Saab are thier international status, but that shouldn't matter for a number of reasons. chevy sells way more than opel does in just one country versus all over Europe. what is it, like 3 million units to 1 million? we're still talking about a saab division that is outsold in the US and all over the world by every other brand GM has. our market and the intrinsics here have to take precedence.

Edited July 8, 2008 by turbo200

[Satty]

I wonder what the fleet percentage is for the G6, though...Avis and Alamo seem to love 'em..

Ohhh...new idea, keep Pontiac as a dedicated fleet brand. They can make money off outdated cars (like the G6) and can justify a handful of sportier clones (Firebird, Solstice) to be like the Shelby GT-H. Those cars will end up in the hands of enthusiasts, GM makes max profit out of existing components, everybody wins.

[Camino LS6]

i guess the immediate thing that pops in my head is how are you going to explain to dealers they're going to be moving less volume, with less models and less brands....and the same amount of dealers. there's bound to be some closures here, considering what you lay out....saturn and saab account for a fraction of GMC and Pontiac volume. from a volume perspective it doesn't make a whole heckuva lotta sense to follow the plan you're proposing....and mostly it seems you want to keep two brands alive that are sold worldwide, one with less volume than GMC or Pontiac in America [saab only sells 200k worldwide], and another that is simply a name for the mainstream cookie cutter brand in Europe.

though i recognize the importance going down the line of product that can be sold internationally, i think we must also serve the interests when profit is in the equation. we're still a big market here, and that needs to be stated and supported. GM needs to figure out how to build vehicles profitably and once again make money in the States, where there still is a ginourmous market.

the only solid reason you're giving in favor of Saturn and Saab are thier international status, but that shouldn't matter for a number of reasons. chevy sells way more than opel does in just one country versus all over Europe. what is it, like 3 million units to 1 million? we're still talking about a saab division that is outsold in the US and all over the world by every other brand GM has. our market and the intrinsics here have to take precedence.

This reality is so obvious that it really calls into question the intelligence of those promoting the suicidal plan PCS has outlined.

[Oracle of Delphi]

i guess the immediate thing that pops in my head is how are you going to explain to dealers they're going to be moving less volume, with less models and less brands....and the same amount of dealers. there's bound to be some closures here, considering what you lay out....saturn and saab account for a fraction of GMC and Pontiac volume. from a volume perspective it doesn't make a whole heckuva lotta sense to follow the plan you're proposing....and mostly it seems you want to keep two brands alive that are sold worldwide, one with less volume than GMC or Pontiac in America [saab only sells 200k worldwide], and another that is simply a name for the mainstream cookie cutter brand in Europe.

though i recognize the importance going down the line of product that can be sold internationally, i think we must also serve the interests when profit is in the equation. we're still a big market here, and that needs to be stated and supported. GM needs to figure out how to build vehicles profitably and once again make money in the States, where there still is a ginourmous market.

I think the Buick dealerships will be grateful that they are still in operation with Saab and Saturn as their new partners. As for some closures, well I think the weaker dealerships should go away anyway. In nature only the strong survive. Chevy and Cadillac are world brands and inside GM, they are untouchable, they are the crown jewels and will never be touched. Saab and Saturn, cough, cough, Opel are the technological darlings of GM, GM is not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but lets see what the GM Board decides to do next month, shall we?

[Camino LS6]

I think the Buick dealerships will be grateful that they are still in operation with Saab and Saturn as their new partners. As for some closures, well I think the weaker dealerships should go away anyway. In nature only the strong survive. Chevy and Cadillac are world brands and inside GM, they are untouchable, they are the crown jewels and will never be touched. Saab and Saturn, cough, cough, Opel are the technological darlings of GM, GM is not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but lets see what the GM Board decides to do next month, shall we?

Pure foolishness.

Saab is useless and Saturn is a perennial failure.

[hyperv6]

>>"...I have seen Goodyear sell off their oil pipe line, Aerospace, Belt and hose, Chemical and other divisions. This was a sad day but if it was not done Goodyear would have been gone altogher. Today Goodyear is back to it's core and making money."<<

Just pointing out RE your example: Pontiac & GMC, etc ARE GM's core. GM has already 'reverse-diversified' (Hughes, EDS, Euclid, Terex, ElectroMotive, GMAC, etc). If Goodyear did what GM is supposedly considering, it would be discontinuing/ selling off 60% of it's lines of tires.

So belts and hoses or industrial belting to fan belting and as well other industrial rubber chemicals are not also rubber related? Aerospace also intails many things like Tire combo's for aircrafts and other rubber related Aerospace applications. Hell they even sold the rights to the blimp design. Selling the right to the design of the blimp is like Chevy selling the Vette. Accept for ther pipe lline it was all rubber realated as noted the companys name is Goodyear Tire and Rubber. Hell they even printed it on their pencils. Almost everything they old of was rubber related.

Goodyear did not sell off their tire lines but by selling off the non tire lines of Rubber that were not making as much money they were able to invest in less but better new products.

GM sold of things that were not Auto related. But my point is GM needs to get to the basic divisions that are profitable and not over laps or un profitable area. Trucks became the core and times today dictate cars from like the Beat up to the Malibu the need to become the new core.

It it rubber products or Cars to many divisions can ands will hurt a company. Right now to save the money and the company it all needs reined in. It has been said GM has had too many divisions and many have been in denial. To day it is hard to say that is not correct. It is time to take money from 5-6 divisions and make 3 strong brands and make a profit.

Get the facts on Goodyears turn around as it is not complete by any means but it is on the right path. Just a few years ago they were not give much of a chance of making it at all. Keagan the CEO and earned every dollar even though he has to make some unpopular choices.

No matter how good a CTSV is or a Malibu if the rest of the company kills the profits the whole body dies. It is time to remove the tumors or die.