Lutz: '09 Pontiac G8 GT gets optional Tremec 6-speed stick

[Oracle of Delphi]

The lack of a manual transmission is the limiting factor as to why I will not consider buying a G8, and many other cars for that matter. I find automatics cumbersome to drive.

Let me explain the simple principle behind automatics, you put it in gear, you step on the gas, and you steer! Cumbersome?

[Robert Hall]

Let me explain the simple principle behind automatics, you put it in gear, you step on the gas, and you steer! Cumbersome?

It doesn't get any easier... I love a manual on windy, hilly backroads, but in real world stop-and-go city traffic, freeways, etc an automatic is fine with me.

[Blake Noble]

Let me explain the simple principle behind automatics, you put it in gear, you step on the gas, and you steer! Cumbersome?

I find it cumbersome. I do 99.9 percent of my driving in a manual. It's now buried in my subconscious to engage a clutch pedal to go into reverse gear. So do I personally find it cumbersome on the occasion I get to drive the family Opel and have to back out of the driveway? Very. Things just don't feel right to me around the pedals and that tends to make the whole car feel off somehow.

It's the same story with our Dakota too.

Plus, things have gotten to the point where city driving in a manual is just as convenient to me as an automatic. I prefer the more engaging car.

Edited June 26, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[ocnblu]

A manual transmission cannot help but make the drive more engaging. If I could have ordered my Sierra with a manual, I would have. Most of the vehicles I've owned have been manuals by choice. It took me a while not to search with my left foot for a third pedal when I got my current vehicle, ha. Pontiac should offer a manual transmission in every vehicle they sell, to enhance their image and offer the customer something fun and different. A G6 GT coupe with optional 2.0L turbo Ecotec and manual transmission would be a wicked fun combo (and dare I say much more appealing to Americans than her sister 9-3 with a similar powertrain). A G5 GXP similar to the Cobalt SS is a no-brainer. 2.4L manual G6 sedan would enhance the car's rep from the bottom up. Maximum efficiency, maximum control, maximum fun. The G8 needs a manual in all three levels of trim, not just the GXP. By only offering it in the most expensive model, it makes GM look old-school, forcing customers who want the positive attributes of a manual into the highest-priced trim level. That is not customer-friendly, imo, and GM needs to become as customer-friendly as possible, more now than ever.

[Camino LS6]

A manual transmission cannot help but make the drive more engaging. If I could have ordered my Sierra with a manual, I would have. Most of the vehicles I've owned have been manuals by choice. It took me a while not to search with my left foot for a third pedal when I got my current vehicle, ha. Pontiac should offer a manual transmission in every vehicle they sell, to enhance their image and offer the customer something fun and different. A G6 GT coupe with optional 2.0L turbo Ecotec and manual transmission would be a wicked fun combo (and dare I say much more appealing to Americans than her sister 9-3 with a similar powertrain). A G5 GXP similar to the Cobalt SS is a no-brainer. 2.4L manual G6 sedan would enhance the car's rep from the bottom up. Maximum efficiency, maximum control, maximum fun. The G8 needs a manual in all three levels of trim, not just the GXP. By only offering it in the most expensive model, it makes GM look old-school, forcing customers who want the positive attributes of a manual into the highest-priced trim level. That is not customer-friendly, imo, and GM needs to become as customer-friendly as possible, more now than ever.

Exactly.

Only bean-counting fools who understand nothing about cars like the G8 would come to the conclusion that offering a manual is not cost-effective. As Z said, look at the manual take rate on the GTO and the F-bodies - it really is a no-brainer. This is either a case of terminal stupidity, or an intentional sabotage of the G8. Almost all of GM's decisions on Pontiac have been pathetically wrong for a very long time now - this is just another example.

Purely stupid, this decision cannot be defended rationally. We aren't talking about a Camry here, and GM has had a near-complete dearth of this type of car for so long that they fail to understand the car and the fact that their demographic statistics don't apply the way that they think.

Bottom line: this is a mistake, and a big one at that.

[regfootball]

FWIW, the take rate for M6 GTOs was very high. Any leftovers were all automatics. Ditto the last LS1 F-bodies.

Don't underestimate the number of people who would want a manual G8 but don't have the dough for the GXP. Rather, spend your energy figuring out how many people GM is turning off by not offering a manual on the non-GXP cars. A M6 G8 with any engine, even the V6, should be a very easy sell.

exactly. hyper's post was spot on also. especially CA. Fk CA i say.

[michaelv13]

Rant #12,348,674,564. (Oh wait I do not have that many posts).

GM stop thinking people do not want fun, engaging manual transmission equipped vehicles. It is your case of justifying your own strategy, which is obviously flawed.

[hyperv6]

Well I'm sure the herd will thin out when some terrorist group or some fringe government detonates a nuclear dirty bomb in some city on the earth. I'm sure we will see this happen in our lifetime.

I am sad to say I have to agree with you. A day worse than 911 lies ahead somwhere in our time. The question is just when and where.

Only a fool would feel other wise.

[hyperv6]

Here are the sad facts on Manual trannys.

At this time and age fewer people today know how to drive them than ever.

Demand outside the enthusiast is as low as ever. [Remember we the enthusiast are in the minority]

Cost for federalizing drive trains and other fed regs is as expensive as ever.

The G8 is a limited number import car and they are not going to be able to spead the cost out over 100K cars.

The fact is if it was so cheap and easy to put a manual in the G8 in this country GM would. But with them, counting every dollar and so few people buying It can not justify the cost.

In the end GM has to look at the fact too that everyone can drive a Auto and only a few want or can drive a manual.

If you want more manuals teach a kid to drive one. If even only 35% of the market would buy them a number like that could justify them coming back.

Create the market and they will build them. Other than some sports cars and small cars few people care in the general public.

I myself love a good old standard shift for weekends and playing around with a car. But to drive to work every day in stop and go traffic it ihas become a pain. Not much fun just flipping between 2-3 gear in a creep of traffic.

My weekends are all for manual shift where I can seek out a road that lets me go through the gears. But because of the daily traffic and heavily traveled roads I have lost some of the passion of manual driving. If you can't rev throught the gears why bother.

The other factor is few peple do nothing but drive anymore. The are playing with the GPS, Cell phone, MP3 i pod, the new Internet capable cars, eating, DVD, ETC. I am sad to say the caqr is more a living room on wheels vs a driving machine.

May people today would skip the manual just because it would be harder to dial the cell phone.

The bottom line is there are too few of us [enthusiast] and too many of them [point a-b drivers].

If you think there are a lot of people like us around you had better take a good look around. There are less of us everyday, More are wanting Camry and Prius vs SS and GXP.

[Camino LS6]

Here are the sad facts on Manual trannys.

At this time and age fewer people today know how to drive them than ever.

Demand outside the enthusiast is as low as ever. [Remember we the enthusiast are in the minority]

Cost for federalizing drive trains and other fed regs is as expensive as ever.

The G8 is a limited number import car and they are not going to be able to spead the cost out over 100K cars.

The fact is if it was so cheap and easy to put a manual in the G8 in this country GM would. But with them, counting every dollar and so few people buying It can not justify the cost.

In the end GM has to look at the fact too that everyone can drive a Auto and only a few want or can drive a manual.

If you want more manuals teach a kid to drive one. If even only 35% of the market would buy them a number like that could justify them coming back.

Create the market and they will build them. Other than some sports cars and small cars few people care in the general public.

I myself love a good old standard shift for weekends and playing around with a car. But to drive to work every day in stop and go traffic it ihas become a pain. Not much fun just flipping between 2-3 gear in a creep of traffic.

My weekends are all for manual shift where I can seek out a road that lets me go through the gears. But because of the daily traffic and heavily traveled roads I have lost some of the passion of manual driving. If you can't rev throught the gears why bother.

The other factor is few peple do nothing but drive anymore. The are playing with the GPS, Cell phone, MP3 i pod, the new Internet capable cars, eating, DVD, ETC. I am sad to say the caqr is more a living room on wheels vs a driving machine.

May people today would skip the manual just because it would be harder to dial the cell phone.

The bottom line is there are too few of us [enthusiast] and too many of them [point a-b drivers].

If you think there are a lot of people like us around you had better take a good look around. There are less of us everyday, More are wanting Camry and Prius vs SS and GXP.

And for a Camry or prius ( or lucerne or fusion) that logic holds, but for the G8 it does not. Not offering a manual on this car is to invite a sales failure. I understand that offering a manual on many cars makes little business sense, but if there ever was a car that justifies the option, the G8 is it.

No way around it, this is a stupid decision.

[Blake Noble]

I will teach my children to drive a manual, I can grant you that.

I thank my parents everyday for making my first car a stick.

I will never own an automatic. Never.

[hyperv6]

And for a Camry or prius ( or lucerne or fusion) that logic holds, but for the G8 it does not. Not offering a manual on this car is to invite a sales failure. I understand that offering a manual on many cars makes little business sense, but if there ever was a car that justifies the option, the G8 is it.

No way around it, this is a stupid decision.

I would love to see a G8 with a Hust in it.

It would be interesting to see many of the GM cars to offer a manual tranny numbers in sedan form over the years Most people who wantthese cars tend to also be coupe buyers. The sedan numbers would be low enough to show why we don't get one out side a CTSV.

I can recall GM offered a manual at one time in the Grand AM sedan but it has been a while since I saw one. Same for the GP.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I will teach my children to drive a manual, I can grant you that.

I thank my parents everyday for making my first car a stick.

I will never own an automatic. Never.

Never say never, because never is a very long time!

[Camino LS6]

I would love to see a G8 with a Hust in it.

It would be interesting to see many of the GM cars to offer a manual tranny numbers in sedan form over the years Most people who wantthese cars tend to also be coupe buyers. The sedan numbers would be low enough to show why we don't get one out side a CTSV.

I can recall GM offered a manual at one time in the Grand AM sedan but it has been a while since I saw one. Same for the GP.

That's exactly my point, they shouldn't be looking at their own sedan numbers since they have little to no recent experience with sedans like this. Not to mention the fact that so few GM cars in general have offered a manual in recent memory - their internal numbers don't have much value. They need to look at manufacturers like BMW to have any figures worth using.

This is part of what's wrong with GM.

[Robert Hall]

That's exactly my point, they shouldn't be looking at their own sedan numbers since they have little to no recent experience with sedans like this. Not to mention the fact that so few GM cars in general have offered a manual in recent memory - their internal numbers don't have much value. They need to look at manufacturers like BMW to have any figures worth using.

This is part of what's wrong with GM.

True...a RWD sedan with a V8 and manual transmission..when was the last time GM NA had anything with this configuration (ignoring the CTS-v).... 40+ years ago? RWD sport sedans (other than the CTS) are a new concept for GM...

Edited June 27, 2008 by moltar

[michaelv13]

Here is a wildest idea:

The Government should offer incentives to people who drive manual transmission cars. What is more worthy than added incentive for an American who can spend that extra cash in Walmart?

Less people doing makeup, sipping big gulpies, yapping on the phone, getting a blow job while driving - more safe roads. KISS Keep it Simple Stupid.

[Camino LS6]

Here is a wildest idea:

The Government should offer incentives to people who drive manual transmission cars. What is more worthy than added incentive for an American who can spend that extra cash in Walmart?

Less people doing makeup, sipping big gulpies, yapping on the phone, getting a blow job while driving - more safe roads. KISS Keep it Simple Stupid.

I like this idea.

How about a requirement that anyone wanting a driver's license prove that they can drive a stick shift?

[ocnblu]

Lets say you're in Iraq, or another hostile country like Philadelphia, and a gang of thugs are chasing you. You spot a clapped-out '84 S-10 Iron Duke with a 5 speed with the keys in it, and it's your only way to escape certain dismemberment. What do you do? EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE A MANUAL TRANSMISSION!

[Robert Hall]

I like this idea.

How about a requirement that anyone wanting a driver's license prove that they can drive a stick shift?

I like that...I learned to drive with a stick. Did my driver's road test in my 52hp 5-speed Escort diesel! I'll always own a mix of automatics and manuals...(automatic for luxury and SUV, manual for performance cars).

[michaelv13]

Lets say you're in Iraq, or another hostile country like Philadelphia, and a gang of thugs are chasing you. You spot a clapped-out '84 S-10 Iron Duke with a 5 speed with the keys in it, and it's your only way to escape certain dismemberment. What do you do? EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE A MANUAL TRANSMISSION!

As Americans are now being told, Talk to the enemies and Ohhhhhhhhh Yes We Can.

[Satty]

As Americans are now being told, Talk to the enemies and Ohhhhhhhhh Yes We Can.

Beats the hell out of "kill 'em all and let god* sort it out and our children foot the bill"

*the same god, by the way, that told the terrorists to fly planes into our buildings.

[michaelv13]

Beats the hell out of "kill 'em all and let god* sort it out and our children foot the bill"

*the same god, by the way, that told the terrorists to fly planes into our buildings.

Who said that is the right path either? Balance is essential, not swaying from one extreme to another.

[Robert Hall]

Beats the hell out of "kill 'em all and let god* sort it out and our children foot the bill"

*the same god, by the way, that told the terrorists to fly planes into our buildings.

And there is no God, as atheists like myself believe...religion is the root of all evil, IMHO.

[z28luvr01]

Let's not go there and stick to the G8 having/not having a manual, mmkay.

[Blake Noble]

Never say never, because never is a very long time!

If it's a long, cold wait in the bowels of hell, then so be it. That is perfectly alright by me.

[Lamar]

Let's not go there and stick to the G8 having/not having a manual, mmkay.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Manuals will be gone when the fun cars die and when we all have to drive a computer.

(So, in about 5 years)

[ocnblu]

Perhaps we can just sit there like lumps and simply text instructions to our transport pods, since texting is more important than driving to so many idiots these days.

[wildcat]

t e x t t o ocnblu

n o t h i n g a n d n o b o d y c a n t a k e a w a y t h e m e m o r y o f a l l t h o s e g r e a t P o n t i a c s

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I saw this when DF posted it, however I recalled that was not the case, but I was out last week for surgery so I decided to send a few E-Mails out to see if it had changed, it had not. Which is why you see GM contacted Autoblog, better to know now, than be surprised later. It seems Mr. Lutz says more than his prayers.

He wouldn't be the first GM employee to go onto the blogs and talk out of his ass.

[ocnblu]

I want to make new memories!

[BigPontiac]

That's exactly my point, they shouldn't be looking at their own sedan numbers since they have little to no recent experience with sedans like this. Not to mention the fact that so few GM cars in general have offered a manual in recent memory - their internal numbers don't have much value. They need to look at manufacturers like BMW to have any figures worth using.

This is part of what's wrong with GM.

Let's also not forget the manual transmissions GM offered weren't very good, which might also be a way to explain the low take rate....and lacked attention to detail. The base Chevy HHR is the poster child for this -- as is the Caddy CTS with 4 pedals on the floor.

[wildcat]

ocnblu: Then grab a Pontiac G8! Consensus seems to be it's the best Pontiac in a long time! You like? Edited June 30, 2008 by wildcat

[Oracle of Delphi]

He wouldn't be the first GM employee to go onto the blogs and talk out of his ass.

Read my lips, no stick shift, just another little decontenting, what was the last one, oh yeah, the electronic gauges, making way for a storage bin as I recall.

[ocnblu]

From what I've seen of those 6000 STE gauges in the G8, I'd say a storage bin, or a set of analog gauges, would be an improvement, not a decontenting. I understand currency value is a bitch, but really.

Mr. wildcat: yes, I like the G8. But even the V6 version is too expensive for me. And I still wish it had more Pontiac flavor in its styling. I'll be patted on the head and told to sit down and shut up, but I still think an Alpha Pontiac coupe, sedan and convertible would go all the way toward a revitalization of the brand.

Edited June 30, 2008 by ocnblu

[wildcat]

Mr. wildcat: yes, I like the G8. But even the V6 version is too expensive for me. And I still wish it had more Pontiac flavor in its styling. I'll be patted on the head and told to sit down and shut up, but I still think an Alpha Pontiac coupe, sedan and convertible would go all the way toward a revitalization of the brand.

Mr.? Why so formal?

Trade your truck for a G8! C'mon, go deep in debt like the rest of us fools.

I've only seen one G8 on the streets of Chicago, a red one, and it stuck out very nicely.

[Camino LS6]

Read my lips, no stick shift, just another little decontenting, what was the last one, oh yeah, the electronic gauges, making way for a storage bin as I recall.

The manual had better show up in the ST.

[wildcat]

Is the ST still coming? (I thought the name "G8 Sport Truck" was fine.)

[Blake Noble]

Read my lips, no stick shift, just another little decontenting, what was the last one, oh yeah, the electronic gauges, making way for a storage bin as I recall.

It's too bad it's too late to do some negotiating so we could trade those horrible gauges in for a stick!

[Camino LS6]

Is the ST still coming? (I thought the name "G8 Sport Truck" was fine.)

Yes, late in 09.

And they still haven't released the official name.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yes, late in 09.

And they still haven't released the official name.

Well ...........

[Oracle of Delphi]

They have picked a winner of sorts, he gets a 2010 Pontiac G8 ST:

official e-mail:

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the Pontiac Tame The Name Sweepstakes.

Grand Prize Winner (1):

Joseph Warren (Waynesville, NC)

Amy Rectenwal Exposure Marketing and Promotions, Inc. 1000 N. Opdyke Rd., Ste. J, Auburn Hills, MI 48326 office 248.276.1270 (ext. 10) efax 775.307.6099 cell 248.230.5544 [email protected] http://www.emipromo.com

[ocnblu]

Wait a sec, what's the marketing company called? Rectal Wall Exposure? ewwwwww....!

[Camino LS6]

They have picked a winner of sorts, he gets a 2010 Pontiac G8 ST:

official e-mail:

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the Pontiac Tame The Name Sweepstakes.

Grand Prize Winner (1):

Joseph Warren (Waynesville, NC)

Amy Rectenwal Exposure Marketing and Promotions, Inc. 1000 N. Opdyke Rd., Ste. J, Auburn Hills, MI 48326 office 248.276.1270 (ext. 10) efax 775.307.6099 cell 248.230.5544 [email protected] http://www.emipromo.com

The winner was picked at random, GM will pick the name no matter what Mr. Joseph Warren chose.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

They have picked a winner of sorts, he gets a 2010 Pontiac G8 ST:

official e-mail:

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the Pontiac Tame The Name Sweepstakes.

Grand Prize Winner (1):

Joseph Warren (Waynesville, NC)

Amy Rectenwal Exposure Marketing and Promotions, Inc. 1000 N. Opdyke Rd., Ste. J, Auburn Hills, MI 48326 office 248.276.1270 (ext. 10) efax 775.307.6099 cell 248.230.5544 [email protected] http://www.emipromo.com

WOW!

Waynesville NC. That's only 30 min from my house!

PCS, please tell me you'll be delivering the G8 ST personally.... I'll give you a good ole appalachian style welcome.