Camaro Convertible and production headlights

[hyperv6]

By Ed Peper GM Fast Blog

North America Vice President, Chevrolet

A few months ago, we showed you some official “spy shots” of the pre-production version of the new Camaro coupe.

To say the least, response to that post was overwhelmingly enthusiastic – something that was extremely gratifying to all of us here at Chevrolet, who have been hard at work testing and retesting the Camaro development models.

As a reward for your interest – and your patience – here’s a sneak peak of the convertible version of the Camaro, which is also undergoing a similar evaluation as we ready it for full production later next year. (Preproduction models shown. Actual production models may vary.)

The prodution cars may differ due to this one having no badging. So I think this is about 95% it.

Note the extra line on the front bumper beside the fog light.

Edited June 13, 2008 by hyperv6

[Intrepidation]

Yay for cool headlights!

[Camino LS6]

Yay for cool headlights!

Noticed that right away.

Very fine looking car.

[Satty]

0 noes!!! tEh b-pillerz!!!!!11111oneoneoneeleveneleveneleveneleventybillionevleven!!!!

Not bad, and depending on circumstances in a few years, I wouldn't rule out a Camaro vert, even if it would just be holding a spot in the garage for an M6.

[ocnblu]

Finally, a resumption of good news out of GM. Lookin' good!

[crash]

those headlights look great I think they look even better than the ones on he concept car

[Robert Hall]

Sweet...I was leaning towards a Mustang convertible, but I may have to hold out for one of these (if it will be out prior to June 28, 2010).

One of these w/ a V8 and manual would be a great winter car for me to cruise around the 'Dale in...

I love the profile view w/ the top up...looks chunky, solid, w/ the long hood and great RWD proportions....none of that FWD nonsense where the door is almost into the wheelwell..

Edited June 14, 2008 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

Damn, those look BETTER than the concept's.

I was thinking that might happen, the concept's

headlights were a bit too recessed & diminutive.

Once again I managed a pretty damn good

educated guess since I predicted that Chevrolet

would do some variation of the angel-eye.

[loki]

looks good.

the side profile at that angle is weird to me....?

[Blake Noble]

I am very pleased. Very. :AH-HA_wink:

[ShadowDog]

Holy poop! The profile image showing the reflection of the sky in the glass and on the body did two things to my vision:

1) I didn't even pay any attention to the flat-black top and could only focus on those sexy rear-quarter lines;

2) The shade of the reflected surface made me wonder just how gorgeous this car would look in a deep, dark gunmetal silver.

... and seeing the actual headlights is highly reassuring.

[Nick]

Yay for ripping off BMW's angel eyes!

[Camino LS6]

Yay for ripping off BMW's angel eyes!

Actually, I'm all for it.

Love to see them on the G8s as well.

[ZL-1]

0 noes!!! tEh b-pillerz!!!!!11111oneoneoneeleveneleveneleveneleventybillionevleven!!!!

:rotflmao:

EDIT - cool looking headlights!

Edited June 14, 2008 by ZL-1

[PurdueGuy]

Looks very good, but this car is going to look so old by the time people can buy it. People whine about a car needing an update after 4-5 years. That's how long we'll have seen this car for by the time people can buy it! It's still a cool car, and will probably sell, but c'mon.

[Intrepidation]

Looks very good, but this car is going to look so old by the time people can buy it. People whine about a car needing an update after 4-5 years. That's how long we'll have seen this car for by the time people can buy it! It's still a cool car, and will probably sell, but c'mon.

I agree that it shouldn't have taken this long to do it, or it shouldn't have debuted as a concept until one year before it could be sold....or something. Still, I love it as much as I did when I first saw it...I want it...worth the wait entirely.

[balthazar]

>>"Looks very good, but this car is going to look so old by the time people can buy it. People whine about a car needing an update after 4-5 years. That's how long we'll have seen this car for by the time people can buy it! It's still a cool car, and will probably sell, but c'mon. "<<

I disagree... after all, we all kno BMW has pawned the same nose (black plastic horizontal grilles, 4 round headlights, chromed nostrils) on their cars for like 30 years (up to the BangledMWs, and even there....)- and that seemed to work fine.

The style the '09 Camaro pays homage to has YET to BEGIN to fade from popularity/ collectibility, but at least there new car buyers have had a break, plus this car is much farther removed from the original than over @ BMW, so I have no doubt this will not grow old- it's already a classic before it even hits the showroom.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yay for ripping off BMW's angel eyes!

Pretty sure the SVT Focus had them too at one point. Maybe even before BMW.

Heck.. Just consider it payback for BMW ripping off the Pontiac grille.

Edited June 15, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Satty]

Heck.. Just consider it payback for BMW ripping off the Pontiac grille.

BMW has been using the twin-kidney grille since the 30's.

[balthazar]

Why are they refered to as 'kidneys' when they were never in in a 'kidney' shape ? Ever see a human kidney or a kidney bean? I never got this, but suspect it's to deflect having them called what they call to mind: pig's nostrils.

Sat is right- BMW has used the same grilles for basically 50 years (yawn), whereas Pontiac debuted a completely different split grille first for '59.

[Robert Hall]

Why are they refered to as 'kidneys' when they were never in in a 'kidney' shape ? Ever see a human kidney or a kidney bean? I never got this, but suspect it's to deflect having them called what they call to mind: pig's nostrils.

Sat is right- BMW has used the same grilles for basically 50 years (yawn), whereas Pontiac debuted a completely different split grille first for '59.

The older BMW grilles ('80s and before) were taller and narrower, kind of like kidney beans, which is probably where the nickname originated. It wasn't until the early '90s that they adopted the late '80s Grand Am style nostrils/squircles.

Edited June 15, 2008 by moltar

[gm4life]

Looks good to me. Can I have a link to see the photos blown up?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

BMW has been using the twin-kidney grille since the 30's.

Except, they didn't morph into Pontiac grilles until the 90s.

The older BMW grilles ('80s and before) were taller and narrower, kind of like kidney beans, which is probably where the nickname originated. It wasn't until the early '90s that they adopted the late '80s Grand Am style nostrils/squircles.

My point exactly!

Edited June 15, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[hyperv6]

I think your right!

I can see a company like BMW making an conserted effort to put the styling from the front of a mid 80's $12,000 V6 FWD sedan styling on a $70,000 car. Why did the rest of us miss something so clear?

Delorean has always admired the German cars but the original concept for the Pontiac nose was not inspored by BMW. Like wise did BMW work to make their cars look like a Pontiac.

It simply was just two car that just happened. But in the later yerars I would not be suprised if GM did make the cars like the Grand Am look a little more BMW like.

The 55 Chevy egg crate grill and headlight styling was stolen from Ferrari at the Paris autoshow in the early 50's. Harley Earl stole many ideas from other cars and eveloped thme into his own creations at a much lower price.

[Robert Hall]

I think your right!

I can see a company like BMW making an conserted effort to put the styling from the front of a mid 80's $12,000 V6 FWD sedan styling on a $70,000 car. Why did the rest of us miss something so clear?

I wasn't saying they explicitly copied the Grand Am, it's coincidental, no doubt, because throughout the '80s BMW was making their front ends smaller, more aero and moving away from the forward leaning, tall noses that they had in the past.

Delorean has always admired the German cars but the original concept for the Pontiac nose was not inspored by BMW. Like wise did BMW work to make their cars look like a Pontiac.

It simply was just two car that just happened. But in the later years I would not be suprised if GM did make the cars like the Grand Am look a little more BMW like.

Quite likely...

Edited June 15, 2008 by moltar

[balthazar]

Fish stories always grow with each telling.

>>"The 55 Chevy egg crate grill and headlight styling was stolen from Ferrari at the Paris autoshow in the early 50's."<<

The Chevy headlights had nothing to do with being taken from ferrari- Chevy debut a hooded lamp for '55 (actually borrowed from Cadillac) and ferrari had never had anything like that before - so that idea is dead.

As for the grille, I strongly suspect the claim was marketing more than anything else, after all, Cadillac debuted the eggcrate grille in the late '30s to considerable attention, and it was emulated by many many other makes in later years. Where did ferrari get it's grillework inspiration from, hmmm? Oh, that's right: it's ferrari- the only inspiration there is from Mt. Olympus.

As for the overall shape, the C-55 has just as much in common with an early '50s ferrari as it does with a '41 Willys, but which sounds more romantic??

This story ('55 Chevy grille >> lifted from ferrari) is repeated & repeated & repeated until it just about overshadows the story of the '55 shoebox altogether.

It immediately reminds me of the like '63 Riv story: supposedly Mitchell was inspired by seeing a Rolls roofline thru the fog while in London in '59... yet when you look at pics of circa '58 Rolls'- there's no similarity whatsoever; just a fat, rounded blob of a roofline/C-pillar, not the Riv's razor-edged concave lines..... yet now all we repeatedly read is 'the Riv owns it's inspiration from Rolls Royce' over & over & over (at least I see this repeatedly), and it blows. Nevermind that Buick Stylist Ned Nickles pretty much designed the Riv (then known as the LaSalle II) as it debuted BEFORE Mitchell went to London in '59 (who here has heard that part of the story?? Who here even knows the name Ned Nickles??). There's a clear sketch in the 5/85 Collectible Automobile story on the '63-65 Riv. There's no question, it's merely marketing.

Again: it's boils down to nothing more than a subtle yet effective degredation of General Motors --intentional from some, subliminal with others-- and repeated by those who even believe themselves to be unwavering fans of the Corp., because it sounds good/ romantic/ bull&#036;h&#33;/ whatever. This goes all the way to Earl & Mitchell, too, at times.

I don't buy it- I truely believe it's just clever marketing.

Edited June 16, 2008 by balthazar

[the_yellow_dart]

Ooh, those look nice.

Not that I want a Camaro, but I do respect the design.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I think your right!

I can see a company like BMW making an conserted effort to put the styling from the front of a mid 80's $12,000 V6 FWD sedan styling on a $70,000 car. Why did the rest of us miss something so clear?

Delorean has always admired the German cars but the original concept for the Pontiac nose was not inspored by BMW. Like wise did BMW work to make their cars look like a Pontiac.

It simply was just two car that just happened. But in the later yerars I would not be suprised if GM did make the cars like the Grand Am look a little more BMW like.

The 55 Chevy egg crate grill and headlight styling was stolen from Ferrari at the Paris autoshow in the early 50's. Harley Earl stole many ideas from other cars and eveloped thme into his own creations at a much lower price.

Oh yes... How stupid of me... I forgot that americans aren't worth anything and can't design anything. In fact, our whole EXISTANCE is false glory.

revisionist bull&#036;h&#33;.

[Turbojett]

Anybody got bigger pics of the black ones?

Here's a couple shots of a silver one to mull over...

...don't ask me why the wheels on the left side are different from the ones on the right...

Edited June 20, 2008 by Turbojett

[Blake Noble]

...don't ask me why the wheels on the left side are different from the ones on the right...

It's because it is a clay mock-up. :AH-HA_wink:

[hyperv6]

Oh yes... How stupid of me... I forgot that americans aren't worth anything and can't design anything. In fact, our whole EXISTANCE is false glory.

revisionist bull&#036;h&#33;.

Sorry if reality hits but most American designers have for years drawn upon Europe to inspire their designs.

Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell were inspired by Europe and their designs. They took the ideas they saw and molded them into true original American classics.

Styling and design are only a new concept to North America. We have only been at it for only 250 years.

[hyperv6]

It's because it is a clay mock-up. :AH-HA_wink:

Yes it is clay or fiberglass. Note no gas lid and the front bumper is different than the black one.

They were testing out wheel designs and have V6 on one side and SS ont he other.

Note this is the only one we have seen with not seen a scoop too.

This is a very old picture from months back.

[balthazar]

>>"Sorry if reality hits but most American designers have for years drawn upon Europe to inspire their designs.

Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell were inspired by Europe and their designs. They took the ideas they saw and molded them into true original American classics."<<

Likewise, as unpopular an idea it is to so many who 'know' otherwise, MANY european designers drew upon years & years of American design for inspiration. Look to the '30s, '40s, and '50s, where the germans, for instance, ran about 10 years behind American design. BMW was still producing tall, vertical-grilled sedans with un-integrated pontoon fenders in the late '50s, while Buick had the same fenders with a modern horizontal grille in '42. This is a '58 !! BMW :

Later still, look at a late '60s mercedes and a late '60s Cadillac vs. today's versions. One of those 2 makes built tiny, tinny, stripped-down, anemic sedans back then.... while both build powerful luxurious cars today. Wonder who learned from who?

I still stand behind my theory that a LOT of the infrequent, supposed 'european influence' quoted by American designers was merely clever marketing to sell the product... because in most of these instances, the 'influence' is just not evident.

[hyperv6]

>>"Sorry if reality hits but most American designers have for years drawn upon Europe to inspire their designs.

Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell were inspired by Europe and their designs. They took the ideas they saw and molded them into true original American classics."<<

Likewise, as unpopular an idea it is to so many who 'know' otherwise, MANY european designers drew upon years & years of American design for inspiration. Look to the '30s, '40s, and '50s, where the germans, for instance, ran about 10 years behind American design. BMW was still producing tall, vertical-grilled sedans with un-integrated pontoon fenders in the late '50s, while Buick had the same fenders with a modern horizontal grille in '42. This is a '58 !! BMW :

Later still, look at a late '60s mercedes and a late '60s Cadillac vs. today's versions. One of those 2 makes built tiny, tinny, stripped-down, anemic sedans back then.... while both build powerful luxurious cars today. Wonder who learned from who?

I still stand behind my theory that a LOT of the infrequent, supposed 'european influence' quoted by American designers was merely clever marketing to sell the product... because in most of these instances, the 'influence' is just not evident.

The wide grill was from the French in cars like the Talbot-Largo in the early 30's. There were several others too but most were one off coustom bodys.

Most design Ideas for hundreds of years have originated from France or Itally like it or not.

The French gave us a little more than expensive wine, smelly pits and the international sign for surrender.

American designer spent most of their time taking Ideas from Europe and incorperating them into their own original designs VS Aisa where they make blatant copies. Hyundia is the latest to try to make a Benz copy. The Asians do not have much in the way of original auto design and when they do it looks like a box.

It really should not matter where insperations for design comes from as long as it is good.

Todays aero and industrial based designs at time border on the absurd.

You should get excited and feel a good design inside not just see it. It should make you want it not just live with it.

Better to marry the smart good looking practical girl vs the girl that is just practical in a Aztec way.

The greatest design from America was Art Deco. The greatest thing they contributed in the auto field was the tail fin or rocket inspired design. No one did it better or bigger. Aero space design is a true American hallmark.

[balthazar]

>>"American designer spent most of their time taking Ideas from Europe and incorperating them into their own original designs "<<

Sorry; not "most". They have many times said so, but the side-by-side evaluations of such just don't support that claim in most instances. It's a romantic idea that plays well with the starry-eyed, but steel doesn't lie. Europe was a decade behind American design for decades. And it doesn't help anyone to learn the truth when people get sloppy and attribute more & more to 'European influence' with zero validity of such.... like, I don't know... '55 Chevy headlights being stolen from ferrari. One can't just spout off distortions like that and still call oneself an enthusiast.

[balthazar]

From Leno's Garage board:

>>"Bill Mitchell from GM is best known for the 1941 Cadillac, the 1964 Buick Riviera, and the 1975 Cadillac Seville. When questioned about the last one as to whether his design team copied Mercedes Benz Mitchell scoffed; “Hell no, we copied Rolls Royce. My dad always said if you’re going to steal, rob a bank not a grocery store!”<<

The idea that the '76 Seville was copied from a mercedes is laughable (unless you are blind). Ford used to run ads claiming their Granada looked "just like the newest Cadillac" (Seville)... and again, only the blind would NOT laugh outloud at the pics. Likewise, the idea that Rolls was a heavy influence is equally unbelievable.... but note the tone Mitchell gave in his answer: all 100% blustery American marketing, nothing more. Look at his dismissal of mercedes (actually quite valid at the time).

Rolls was an anachronism thruout it's history, but supposedly that was it's appeal. But a design leader?? Please. Even that theory doesn't hold water. Go look up '73-4 Rolls pics vs. the '76 Seville if you don't believe me and choose to take everything from Mitchell at face value.

[hyperv6]

You must be the blind one as I never brought the Seville into this.

Just more of your distortions and you still call one self an enthusiast.

Hmm. You did help make my point though with Bill Mitchells statment on stealing others designs. Thanks I forgot about that one.

So the full moon is still effecting you?

My Benz point were many of todays cars using styling taken from the present Benz line. Many of the Asian cars today have a Benz tone to them. Besides todau no one woud steal from Rolls as todays cars are just creepy. I just saw Lebron Jame near may home in his Rolls and I will pass on that box. Give me a new Bently anyday.

Edited June 20, 2008 by hyperv6

[Robert Hall]

Ok..ok...leave the styling influence trivia to the past. It is what it is. To bring the thread back on topic, the new Camaro convertible looks like it's going to be great...I can't wait to see the production version and read about the specs....what engines, transmissions, options, etc...

[balthazar]

yeah- that's fascinating and new: the 3000th wondering post on the upcoming camaro & it's specs. So engaging- thank God we're 'back on track'.

hyper, I find your posts typical of those who don't want to be bothered with specifics & facts, often coming off as a dismissive wave of the hand. Generalize everything and you can never be called on it, right? You won't admit mistatements, won't even address them, and there they stand, ready to mislead someone looking to learn from the internet. And I'm 'distorting'.

[hyperv6]

yeah- that's fascinating and new: the 3000th wondering post on the upcoming camaro & it's specs. So engaging- thank God we're 'back on track'.

hyper, I find your posts typical of those who don't want to be bothered with specifics & facts, often coming off as a dismissive wave of the hand. Generalize everything and you can never be called on it, right? You won't admit mistatements, won't even address them, and there they stand, ready to mislead someone looking to learn from the internet. And I'm 'distorting'.

Ok your right Amerca is the styling capital of the world and I compared the Seville to the the Rolls. [Don't know where you pulled that one out of??]

Ok you should be feel better now??

You speak in even more generalities as you want to say I am wrong and only can reply to most things in opinion or strongly feel?

The 55 Chevy story is from a publication that did a story on Harley Earl a few years back and that is what was stated I have a choice to believe you or a creditable publication? Hmm based on your comments I will take the press. If I recall it was a story in AutoWeek on a trip HArley Earl too to Europe and spent time with Pinniafarina and the Paris auto show. If went on to show where it inspired him on some of his future cars.

The only reason the Germans were behind after the war in the early 50's was they lost the war. They were just trying to survive. Mercedes in the 20's and 30's were second to none and built cars that were styled very progressive for the age. By the mid 50's they were taking each model line back one at a time.

The upright grills were trade marks that many kept over the years, Alfa still retains this. Caddy has done the same with the tail lights. There is no right or wrong just as in our opinions.

Cadillac had nothing on the 300 SLR and The 500K would rival even the finest V16 Caddy made.Today the XLR is even still emulating the 230SL original sharp creased pagoda lines. I never said Cadillac was bad and of all the divisions Caddy most time did their own thing.

Anything I have said or posted here can be seen in the cars and or in print. I did not just pull anything out of the air. If anyone cares they can check it out. As for your statments or theory as you stated They can do the same.

Get a clue and move on and give these people a break and get back to the topic at hand the Camaro. Even if it is post 3001 it is more productive than where we are going.

Edited June 20, 2008 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

>>"Ok your right Amerca is the styling capital of the world and I compared the Seville to the the Rolls. [Don't know where you pulled that one out of??]"<<

I never said you compared the Seville to the Rolls - I did that via example, which is how the Seville entered the conversation. You must've missed that.

>>"Ok you should be feel better now??"<<

I not should be yet feel better.

>>"The 55 Chevy story is from a publication that did a story on Harley Earl a few years back and that is what was stated I have a choice to believe you or a creditable publication?"<<

You don't think there could possibly be an agenda on the part of Earl, even some of the time? A printed publication has NEVER made a mistake? No- not possible? Interesting.

All right then, ignore me: why not just believe your EYES?

'53 Paris Auto Show ferrari :

production '55 Chevrolet :

Don't want you to miss it : see that sheetmetal hood & stainless bezel over the '55 lamp? Yep- that's clearly a rip-off cause some magazine said Earl said so.

How about this- he was inspired by the ferrari at the Paris auto show, but never used any of that inspiration on the actual car's headlights? THAT, I can agree to.

>>"The only reason the Germans were behind after the war in the early 50's was they lost the war. They were just trying to survive."<<

How did I KNOW that one would be trotted out again ?? Regardless, I'm glad we can agree on this point: thru the '30s, '40s '50s & '60s- most european makes were behind American makes in progressive design.

>>"Mercedes in the 20's and 30's were second to none and built cars that were styled very progressive for the age."<<

This, without question, is subjective. I for one would easily put Cadillac ahead of Mercedes. Ever see the Fleetwood Aerodynamic coupes that were copied by many from the '30s, including mercedes? Numerous examples of styling leadership by Cadillac in this area- another discussion.

>>"There is no right or wrong just as in our opinions."<<

Oh come on- facts are right or wrong, and that's what I'm discussing here. 'Cadillac began building cars in 1855.' That's wrong. 'Chevrolet copied ferrari headlights for '55'- that's wrong, too.

>>"Anything I have said or posted here can be seen in the cars and or in print. I did not just pull anything out of the air.'<<

This is the monster problem: sloppy 'journalism' and 'research' appearing in print has mislead countless enthusiasts for years and years. Ever hear- 'you can't always believe what you read' ??

Let's keep it thematic: think of used car classified ads: there, someone is selling you on an item, how often have you read glowing, rosily optimistic claims for something that's obviously not the case? You learn to read between the lines, you have to to protect yourself and it's a practice you should ALWAYS enact in an effort to learn the truth.

Earl was a designer (early on), a leader, an administrator, an inspirer... and a salesman- he had to be; it was his job. OF COURSE he has embellished over the years in his capacity for the world's largest automaker. He was a MASTER at imagery & manipulation. ANY more romance he could instill in a basic, family transportation vehicle would only have a positive effect. 'Ferrari headlights on a Chevy' - how cool is that? But I'll not say 'too bad it didn't happen', because Chevy already ran the same headlight 'design' as the '53 ferrari used, on the '49, '50, '51, '52 & '53 Chevys ('54 used a fluted bezel)... in fact so did dozens and dozens of makes across the world.

Bottom line: the pics do not lie.

All that said - hyper, you can have the last word in the interest of further wondering about the Camaro. I've said my piece. It's not you so much as misinformation that gets me steamed- sorry if it came off as personal (no doubt it did, tho I tried to avoid that). Peace.

[Robert Hall]

Can you guys take your pissing match about styling trivia elsewhere and leave this thread to the new Camaro? The history stuff and trivia is interesting, but not relevant to the 5th gen Camaro...

Edited June 20, 2008 by moltar

[hyperv6]

Can you guys take your pissing match about styling trivia elsewhere and leave this thread to the new Camaro? The history stuff and trivia is interesting, but not relevant to the 5th gen Camaro...

I have stopped reading his posts after my last and moved on. At this point he is not arguing with me but a journalist and I don't really care anymore.

Here is my shot to get this back to reality.

As for the Camaro . I spoke to my friend who got to drive 3 different Camaros as part of the focus group. She was suprised when I asked if she had seen the new pictures.

She said no and when she did see them she started to speak about the black Camaro she saw. I guess of all the colors she said the black had a evil look and made the car look very aggresive.

She would not say but I get the feeling they may have been shown this black convertible. It did not seem to suprise her.

She is doing well to abide by the non disclosure Scott should be proud of her.

I hope The ghost of Harley past is ok with this. I really do know this person and not just in theory.

Some time you just have to laugh and move on. This is for enjoyment not get stupid or rude with anyone..

Thank you for the stabil voice of reason.

Edited June 21, 2008 by hyperv6

[cyclonic]

The prototype convertible has been spied in the wild at a shopping centre in Victoria, Australia.

LINK