GM Stock down to $16.41!!!

[andretti]

GM stock at $16.41! This is the lowest it has been since 1974, and in 1974 the dollar was worth 5 times what it is now. Is it time to buy or have we not seen the bottom yet? There are some who are saying it will drop to $10 before we see it go up again. What do you all think?

Edited June 6, 2008 by andretti

[CSpec]

Everything is so volatile right now--I would say hold off until things stabilize, if GM still exists. The stock market is not a good game to be playing at the moment.

[Drew Dowdell]

only if you're planning on holding for a long time... probably more than 5 years.

[daves87rs]

only if you're planning on holding for a long time... probably more than 5 years.

Agreed. It will go up, just slowly until things get better....

[Blake Noble]

I am buying GM stock at the end of the summer. I hope that it actually continues to decline until then. The cheaper it is, the more I can buy. The more I can buy, the more "say" I can have, after all, GM must listen to their shareholders (if not now, then eventually, under whatever circumstance). ... Oops! I believe I have said too much!

It's about the investment as much as it is about getting to further enrich my understanding, so to speak. :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

Planning a hostile takeover?

sharebuilder.com is great for dollar-cost averaging.

[Blake Noble]

Planning a hostile takeover?

No, nothing like that. I believe GM needs an extremely arrogant and truly hard-headed investor, that's all.

[ZL-1]

Where is the bottom? $0 just because nothing can be more worthless than being worthless

Re the GM stock price, let's see how the year unfolds. By September/October there will be a clearer picture of where they're headed into.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No, nothing like that. I believe GM needs an extremely arrogant and truly hard-headed investor, that's all.

That would be me! :AH-HA_wink:

[CARBIZ]

In the meantime, I have some great Bre-X stock to sell, if anyone out there is interested.....

[Blake Noble]

That would be me! :AH-HA_wink:

The next future stockholder meeting could be quite interesting then.

Edited June 7, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[FAPTurbo]

In the meantime, I have some great Bre-X stock to sell, if anyone out there is interested.....

And I'll be buying up some stock at this price, because GM isn't going anywhere, and I believe they'll be back on top in the not too distant future.

[thegriffon]

only if you're planning on holding for a long time... probably more than 5 years.

That applies to any stock, at any time.

[GXT]

That applies to any stock, at any time.

I think there are lots of examples to the contrary. It is not uncommon for a stock to peak quickly and then tank forever more. The Bre-X stock is good example.

What is overlooked is that while your money is tied up with GM waiting for them to (hopefully) turn it around, you could have been making a lot of money off someone else.

I'd say there is lots more downside to come.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well GM is no mining company, it's a vehicle manufacturer and in that regard it can make it's own future given the right product. I think this is an excellent time to buy GM's stock. As GM moves away from trucks and large sedans, to midsize and compact cars that get over 30 MPG, GM can start to write it's own future again. With the Chevy Volt and numerous other technologies that will soon to be here, I only see GM's stock as going higher and higher after 2010. If the Volt takes off like I think it will, so will GM's market price.

[ShadowDog]

No, nothing like that. I believe GM needs an extremely arrogant and truly hard-headed investor, that's all.

Dollinger already has too much stock in GM... or not enough, depending upon his time of the month.

[ehaase]

Well GM is no mining company, it's a vehicle manufacturer and in that regard it can make it's own future given the right product.

I wish I could agree with you, but I have heard that around 52 percent of the American public won't consider a domestic product under any circumstances, and I don't know how GM gets around that and that it has the time to find out.

[CARBIZ]

I wish I could agree with you, but I have heard that around 52 percent of the American public won't consider a domestic product under any circumstances, and I don't know how GM gets around that and that it has the time to find out.

The public doesn't know what the hell it wants. It does what it is told. Ever follow the fashion industry?

Once a new level of equilibrium has been reached, the dust will settle and GM's stock will rise. GM's fortunes have fallen before, just not under the glaring immediacy of the internet.

Toyota and Honda both are realizing it is a lot harder to play in the big leagues.

[mustang84]

I wish I could agree with you, but I have heard that around 52 percent of the American public won't consider a domestic product under any circumstances, and I don't know how GM gets around that and that it has the time to find out.

There was a poll a while back that found only 15% of Americans would never consider purchasing a domestic car again. I think most would consider American cars if they had class-leading fuel economy. And even though some like the Cobalt XFE do, most don't realize it...there's the stereotype that you go to Honda or Toyota if you want fuel economy.

[gmcbob]

The public doesn't know what the hell it wants. It does what it is told. Ever follow the fashion industry?

GM's fortunes have fallen before, just not under the glaring immediacy of the internet.

This is so true - during the 70s oil crisis, unless you were scrutinizing the newspapers from all over the country or really going out of your way to do some time consuming research at a library (using information that was already old and outdated by today's standards, even it was a month old), you really had no idea what GM's financial situation was, and what most "analysts" opinions of it were. And then it was probably wrong anyway. I remember back in 2005 when it was all over the internet that GM could possibly go bankrupt, my Dad (who used to work for GM) was laughing his butt off. "Bob, this is what they were saying in the 70s, and look what happened". Only then, you maybe heard about it once and didn't have the ability to Google it and find a ton of blogs (written by people who with absolutely no background) on it.

I've thought about how the internet has a strange effect in that it allows so many people more or less anonymously to come out of the woodwork and act like experts. (I'm obviously guilty with my rants on how GM should advertise). We see things in writing, and instantly start believing it as truth or fact. It's a great medium for reporting the news, no doubt, but it really gives too many people with absolutely no honest background in a given subject an easy way (if you have an internet connection) to wholeheartedly immerse yourself into that subject and frankly get too carried away. Read a lot of the posts and web only blogs and articles out there, not only on car websites, but business websites too, of people ranting about how the Big 3 aren't technological leaders. That totally chaps my hide to no end - these people are utterly clueless - yet, it's almost as if because it's flowing from their fingers onto their screen, and they have the ability to post it, and that that theme seems to resonate as truth with a lot of people that know nothing about cars, that it can somehow be considered as absolute.

[gmcbob]

Well GM is no mining company, it's a vehicle manufacturer and in that regard it can make it's own future given the right product. I think this is an excellent time to buy GM's stock. As GM moves away from trucks and large sedans, to midsize and compact cars that get over 30 MPG, GM can start to write it's own future again. With the Chevy Volt and numerous other technologies that will soon to be here, I only see GM's stock as going higher and higher after 2010. If the Volt takes off like I think it will, so will GM's market price.

In theory I think you're right. It seems like in Europe GM resonates well with buyers because small cars like the Astra are actually competitive, which is why you're making money over there. The problem over here in the US (you clearly know this I'm sure) is that nobody associates small or even medium sized cars with GM that much any more. It became brutally clear last month that $4/gal. is pretty much the tipping point that gives Joe Blow the idea that maybe a Yukon isn't really that practical. Unfortunately, instead of saying "I'll buy a Malibu or an Impala instead", he or she says "I"ll buy an Accord or Camry instead". That's a gi-huge-ant problem for GM. They must figure out a way to get it in people's heads that the same company that builds these really durable SUV's also builds some pretty compelling gas misers too. It can be done, but it has to be swift and clever with ads saturating every possible place on TV, print and internet the likes in which God himself couldn't replicate.

I think GM should actually do something completely insane like make the base price of a Cobalt $6999 or something, and sell so many of them that they basically own half the market on small cars. You'd have the imports steaming mad over it, and I think it would be hilarious.

[CARBIZ]

That's a good point. GM is getting a lot of bad press around here because of 'closing' the Oshawa truck plant next year. Any idiot can figure out that the crewcab luxo pickups will be among the first to crash when gas prices go nuts. The media is just heaping more BS on GM and their 'gas guzzlers.' No mention of the fact that the Silverados actually get better gas mileage than the Turdra, or that the hybrid Tahoes will do more for the environment than the Prius!

Part of that is GM's fault. The only car ads I see around here on TV are for the Malibu and Astra. There are a lot of print ads for the Uplander/SV6 and the Cobalt/G5, but mostly just talking price points. We've had a lot of interest in the 'hybrid' Malibus, but naturally we can't get them.

As I have repeatedly said, it will be a rough year, but once the new Aveo is out (about 2 months), the 'new' small car, the new minivan (all slated for mid-year next year), things will look up. But GM has to get the message out that it builds more than gas guzzlers.

[daves87rs]

Well GM is no mining company, it's a vehicle manufacturer and in that regard it can make it's own future given the right product. I think this is an excellent time to buy GM's stock. As GM moves away from trucks and large sedans, to midsize and compact cars that get over 30 MPG, GM can start to write it's own future again. With the Chevy Volt and numerous other technologies that will soon to be here, I only see GM's stock as going higher and higher after 2010. If the Volt takes off like I think it will, so will GM's market price.

QFT.

[Blake Noble]

I think GM should actually do something completely insane like make the base price of a Cobalt $6999 or something, and sell so many of them that they basically own half the market on small cars. You'd have the imports steaming mad over it, and I think it would be hilarious.

I would actually love to see something like this happen the last year of Cobalt production if it is any at all possible.

The way to an American's heart is his wallet, after all. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited June 8, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Satty]

They're not going to drop the price of the Cobalt $3,000 less than the Aveo, plus it would seriously damage the Cobalt and therefore Chevy. It will reinforce the consumer sentiment that the only reason to buy a GM is the deal.

[gmcbob]

Perhaps then the new B segment car that they're planning on should be super cheap. At the very least it should undercut the Yaris and Fit in price.

[GXT]

I think the reality is that no automaker is good enough right now to justify 20%, let alone GM. I said it a long time ago and I'll say it again now: GM needs to find a way to be profitable at 12% market share. And perhaps I am even being generous at saying GM can hold 12%.

The very scary part for GM is that the market is shifting to the strength of its competitors. It is very likely that these are still part of "the good times" for GM. Well maybe not the "good times", but there are certainly much worse times coming.

As for the Volt, I just sit and shake my head at how GM can be so wrong. The Volt makes so little sense for the vast majority of people. A niche, overly expensive product is not going to offset the loss of pickup sales, the lack of a competitive small car, and the lack of a price-competitive hybrid (note that I mean a hybrid that gets good fuel economy for a good price, not one of GM's current hybrids like the VUE that actually does worse that competitor's 4cyls). Yet this is what they are apparently banking on. GM thinks that the Prius gave Toyota some sort of “green advantage”. Maybe it did, but it was Honda’s sales that were way up last month while Toyota languished. GM is wasting valuable time and dollars on a PR-stunt that got way out of hand.

While GM is busy working out their Prius-envy on a long-shot niche product, Toyota and Honda are moving in on the mass market with sub $20,000 hybrids. Toyota has already sold over a million hybrids and Honda is planning on 500,000K year by then end of 2009(?). GM is hoping to sell 10,000 Volts in 2011. Toyota and Honda are talking 1,000,000's of units by the time GM hits 10,000 with the Volt. If that weren't bad enough, is spite of all the Volt bluster, it sounds like Toyota only needs to plug in a larger battery pack to match the Volt (see the Hymotion solution).

I don't know why more people aren't talking about it, but by GM's own best forecast they have already “lost”. They've apparently bet the farm on a long-shot and even if it comes in, they still lose.

Edited June 8, 2008 by GXT

[CARBIZ]

My understanding of the Volt (if it meets its design criteria) is that it will be less complex to build than a Prius, have fewer moving parts, greater longevity and (eventually) be cheaper to build than a Prius. You have to understand that the Prius is overly complex because it is running two sets of drive systems. The Volt will not. The wildcard here is the Lithium ion batteries, but anyone who runs a modern cellphone, as opposed to one from 15 years ago, can appreciate the advantages of lithium ion over earlier batteries.

The big question is whether GM can do all of this in time to make a difference. My own feeling is they have to try. They need something like the Volt to reassert beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Detroit can lead again. The time for baby steps is long past. Toyota has been hugely successful with baby steps, and has been unerringly running down GM for 25 years. GM needs a gamechanger, and the Volt could be that gamechanger.

Besides, by the time the Volt arrives, GM will have probably 100k or more Silverado/Tahoe 2 mode hybrids on the road, plus all the 'mild' hybrids in the Malibu/Vue, etc.