I am gonna blow... This is one of hell'uva a RANT!

[gm4life]

What an intresting month, General Motors has a less than stellar month thanks to idot UAW workers striking, high gas prices and market heading towards the $h!ter. Toyota manages to push more ugly vanila Camry's than last May. My sons boss took his 2006 Ford F-150 Super Crew FX4 and traded it on a 2008 Honda Accord EX 4cyl. Sedan, lost his ass on the sweet red truck I know. (I can't fault him for getting a Honda my son said to him as long as it isn't a Toyota Ken (which it is not) I wish you the best of luck with it!) So let the rant begin.

I can't believe the number of Prius's that keep poping up in my town. Those ugly little most likely slow moving "greenie" cars are really getting on my nerves. Followed two today in a buddies 2000 Sierra and I felt like f@#king smash'n 'em up. Each were going 5 under and had poltical bumper sticker that I strongly disagree with. Good-damned liberal f@#kers. If I were a betting man I would venture to guess that most of those Prius drivers have lost all brains prolly leaking out there ass and shoved them in a closet or in a storage room in the house and never plan to retrive them. I can't stand it, I am considering having a few bump-stickers made. Ever new Turd, Seq, Camry, or Prius I see all get a bird from yes, I flip them off. Then say a pray that there car (or should I say fab Toyota f@#king bursts into flames) and they die. (Not my cousin he owns a Camry...) I am really building up an unhealthy hate for Toyota and in doing so I keep liking GM and Honda products all the more. Unhealthly yes but why I truly can't understand. When will people realize they are shooting the American economy in the foot by selecting a forigen car and I don't care where it is built but I care where the profits are going. I think I am going to make bumper stickers that say driven an American car or go to hell. These pigs driving forigen cars seem to be getting meaner and meaner. I do hope every single Toyota driver comes to realize what they are doing and trades in there hunk of $h! for a better vehicle. If I sound like I am ready to go shooting out windshield with my 12 gauge at my local Toyo dealer I am. Very close. I want the new G5 and G6 already and my hard-top Solstice along with more GXP models. In addtion where are the 6A 4cylidner Malibu's coming. (Can't get here soon enough!) When are we getting the new LaX replacement? Oh and when can we have the only for China Park Ave in the states... GM is my favorite and only car company but I am getting pissed at your pig bastards. Don't worry I just wanna shoot anyone whom works, drives or is related to Toyota in any way but I sure want too. That is my extreme rant... I am sure 68 has some wise words to add about Toyota drivers and the brand in general. Fire away.

Rick and Bob get your $h! together and keep GM number one and not just in sales. You guys have the tools to do it... Hmmm now for the UAW...

In closing when will the Prius driving save the world humping f@#kers buy a real car? Oh yeah they drive Prius's so blind people can get hit when crossing the street because they couldn't hear them coming. f@#kers. With my American cars that is NEVER a problem. :AH-HA_wink:

I want big ol' fashioned RWD cars like a 455 powered Bonneville or a 500 cube Caddy those were the days... 68 might be right old cars kick ass... Oh and any suggestiong for cheap gas? If it involves shooting and blowing up half the world I am still game. Trust me I am going to blow...

Edited June 4, 2008 by gm4life

[FAPTurbo]

Ok.

Next time I see some guy flip me the bird while I'm driving my brothers to hockey in our Toyota Sienna, I'll be sure to think of you.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Captainbooyah

[longtooth]

'Lifer', let me know what I can do. 455 cubes is a great start. Like the "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot" Firebird.

[Argen]

Firstly, you do realise that Prii (Priuses?) generate sufficient noise for the blind to hear?

I think largely the reason many people get Toyotas is because they are idiots. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not on your side on this. I don't mind Toyotas. The problem is that Toyota is well known and commonly associated with reliablity and fuel economy. As a result many Toyota buyers go straight to their respective dealers without even cross-shoping. This doesn't only apply to Toyota. I know plenty of hicks (I seem to live in a small colony of them) who only go to American car dealers because they hate foriegn cars, despite they might be able to get a better car if they cross-shoped. A lot of people, who know nothing about cars, if asked what car they would buy if money was no object would probably say Ferrari or Lamborghini. This isn't because they are fanatics of these companies, but mostly because they know the names and reputations.

This is the same reason why Hilary won South Dakota; most voters in that state didn't research enough to know that she had, essentially, already lost. It's why people continue to buy Corollas, when the Mazda3 is a much better car. I can't emphasize how much people need to cross-shop when they buy cars. If they did, then companies would be more successful or go out of business faster.

[Satty]

This is the type of immaturity that drives people away from C&G. There used to be intelligent discussion around here, now we get things like this. Its not even in the lounge, which is hidden from guests, its in C&G Features, a forum that should be dedicated to actual intelligent thought and not stupid ignorance.

[ZL-1]

priuses are dangerous to people listening to music on their ipods while crossing the streets. priuses should therefore have louder-than-everyone-else automatic horns

Edited June 4, 2008 by ZL-1

[z28luvr01]

This is the type of immaturity that drives people away from C&G. There used to be intelligent discussion around here, now we get things like this. Its not even in the lounge, which is hidden from guests, its in C&G Features, a forum that should be dedicated to actual intelligent thought and not stupid ignorance.

I can at least move it in the Lounge. This obviously doesn't belong in features.

[CARBIZ]

Even though it makes me inwardly cringe when I see angry diatribes in print, I certainly understand where the emotions come from. Everywhere I look I see definite signs of decay in the West and most of it comes from selfishness. Our grandparents (who threw in to gether for WWII and made all sorts of sacrifices) must be rolling in their graves.

As I have stated before, I have had a visceral loathing for Toyota that dates back to the mid-80s, long before I had anything to do with the car business. Maybe it has something to do with the way Asians do business, or maybe it is just our constant stupidity for underestimating them and not understanding that we do not comprehend their culture. We constantly take their politeness and detachment for acceptance, but that is patently untrue.

Even now, the media is falling all over itself to report plant closures on the part of Ford and GM, the sudden (but expected) drop in truck sales, focusing on GM and Ford while conveniently ignoring the falling truck sales at Toyota. (Did you see the FJ's sales? Or the Tundra's, in its new $1 billion dollar truck plant?) Again, this is turning out to be another self-fulfilling prophecy. I, for one, am not tricked into thinking GM and Ford did not see this coming. GM had no choice but to defend its turf with the GM-900s and hurled a lot of money in that direction, but as we have seen, other products were in the works: the Volt, the 'new' small car coming out next year, the 2.0 litre turbo, to name a few. Ford is expanding production in Oakville of new cross-overs, while GM probably have something up its sleeve for Oshawa, but won't tell Hargrove because that will, in turn, alert Toyota.

We all need to take a deep breath and take a The sky isn't falling. For that matter, I don't believe $130 a barrel oil is here to stay. I doubt we'll see $50 again, but I wouldn't be surprised if oil drops down to $100 before long. The oil companies are suddenly tripping over themselves to find new sources. Just wait until the new find in Brazil comes online. Iraq's output is approaching pre-war levels. There is hope on the horizon.

In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt Detroit to get off the truck craze and start building more sensible vehicles again. At least that would force the eco-weenies to find something else to bitch about.

[Sixty8panther]

I made a custom sticker for the back window on the Banana.

It says: YOUR HONDA IS MY CRUMPLE ZONE

[Robert Hall]

A lot of bluster and pointless ranting (with a shot of xenophobia thrown in) that ultimately is meaningless and futile.

[cletus8269]

i think a lot of the problem is the materialistic view instilled in most, outwardly shown by having vehicles people want instead of the vehicle they need. example married couple, no kids cruising around in a tahoe.

[Intrepidation]

I can't even read the entire rant. It really is that immature. At least it's in the lounge now.

[REDO1GPGT]

Wow....can't believe I even bothered to read that...

Maybe a lot of people chose to buy Toyota's in your town because they don't want a POS like my Grand Prix that's in and out of the shop every other month since I've owned it. Fact is Toyota's are a safe, reliable, and risk less choice even if they are boring and foreign made.

Edited June 4, 2008 by REDO1GPGT

[CARBIZ]

Wow....can't believe I even bothered to read that...

Maybe a lot of people chose to buy Toyota's in your town because they don't want a POS like my Grand Prix that's in and out of the shop every other month since I've owned it. Fact is Toyota's are a safe, reliable, and risk less choice even if they are boring and foreign made.

Could be worse: you could be driving a Tacoma. Watch out for that pot hole!

[XP715]

I agree with the majority of what he said, but not at all with the way in which it was presented.

gm4life: were your drunk or something when you wrote this, dude? Usually your $h!'s a lot more coherent and well thought out than this.

Edited June 4, 2008 by XP715

[Farkas]

Please, this type of rant makes you look like an incoherent fool, makes C&G look like a 2nd rate forum, and drives the people who want to talk about ALL cars away.

You love Pontiac. Fine. I love Mercury. Whatever. But why do you hate Toyota so much? Maybe you could post reasons like, "Toyota takes jobs away from Americans, which is wrong" instead of "OMG STOOPID LIBERALS DRIVE PRII, AND I HATE ALL LIBERALS, THEREFORE, TOYOTA ='S THE SUKKK!"

Astonishing: You can be rational and coherent and still get your point across.

And everyone wonders why C&G has been on the decline.

[A Horse With No Name]

Firstly, you do realise that Prii (Priuses?) generate sufficient noise for the blind to hear?

I think largely the reason many people get Toyotas is because they are idiots. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not on your side on this. I don't mind Toyotas. The problem is that Toyota is well known and commonly associated with reliablity and fuel economy. As a result many Toyota buyers go straight to their respective dealers without even cross-shoping. This doesn't only apply to Toyota. I know plenty of hicks (I seem to live in a small colony of them) who only go to American car dealers because they hate foriegn cars, despite they might be able to get a better car if they cross-shoped. A lot of people, who know nothing about cars, if asked what car they would buy if money was no object would probably say Ferrari or Lamborghini. This isn't because they are fanatics of these companies, but mostly because they know the names and reputations.

This is the same reason why Hilary won South Dakota; most voters in that state didn't research enough to know that she had, essentially, already lost. It's why people continue to buy Corollas, when the Mazda3 is a much better car. I can't emphasize how much people need to cross-shop when they buy cars. If they did, then companies would be more successful or go out of business faster.

Mazda 3 is so much better than the Corolla it's like they are not even built on the same planet.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I agree with the majority of what he said, but not at all with the way in which it was presented.

gm4life: were your drunk or something when you wrote this, dude? Usually your $h!'s a lot more coherent and well thought out than this.

I think a few of us need to rant today....

Chris

[daves87rs]

I think a few of us need to rant today....

Chris

Agreed.

It makes me laugh with the people complaining about gm4's post....when I saw the title-I already knew....

This is why it is in the lounge-so others won't be afraid on this site....

I say let the man rant-nothing wrong with a rough post-just as long as it doesn't end up in his next 30 posts...

Even Camino posts his rants here-granted, gm4's might have been building for a long time......

[A Horse With No Name]

As men we forget that men are emotional sometimes too. I'd rather have someone rant, admit it is a rant, and get it over with.

Chris

[gm4life]

I know I feel much better. Sure it was extreme but it had to come out. I had a very productive day today. Thanks for listening. I can understand some of you don't agree with the way it was said it was after mid-night and my blood was boiling. Why do I hate Toyota because I believe they get too much credit for stuff they really deserve no more or less credit for than say what GM or Ford do. I also believe my dad along with many other people I know faught in WWII and the hate and emotion I feel about it pours over into my regular life. Don't ask me why I like Honda but I belief they deserve the praise they get and build by far more appealing cars. Also aside of that Honda doesn't talk out of both sides of there mouth build like a Tundra and Land Cruiser and then sell a Prius. Then again I am loyal GM owner and will be for as long as they keep producing cars. Sometimes you just do something out of habit or because it is right and right for this country my view is prolly a combo of those too. For those of you whom didn't agree nor understand/like the rant, I did warn you. You didn't have to read it. Also I consider myself a bright person and like someone mentioned eariler my posts most times are well put together. At least I support GM and try to support the American economy and more importantly an American company where the profit stays. Sorry I am loyal, passionate and wasn't born yesturday. I could have said it more nicely and made my point as well and still sounded passionate. No I wasn't drunk but people who buy Toyota's might be. :AH-HA_wink:

I can recall when driving a forigen car was wrong and now it is widely accepted. We live in American and the poor press Detriot recieves isn't need or fair look at FJ, Turd, and 4 Runner sales... They have all went down the tank and we here nothing about them just GM closing factories. I agree I belief we send enough money over-seas if I can buy a good American product and not have to send extra money like $20,000 worth of it over-seas I am glad to help the American economy. I do think some poeple don't understand econo. As far as the "slipping" of C&G I think we have gotten ourselfs in the this pickle we are GM's biggest fans and toughest critics. Hint the word fans, I am a fan. And have been critical why no RWD Park Ave, where is the six speed auto in the GMT-900's and Malibu? Why in the hell did they build an H3 with a 5 banger and why in the hell couldn't they build a decent midsize truck with a 6 cylinder? Some of the people that have joined us seem hardly like GM fans more like GM haters. Then again unlike a few on here I put my money where my mouth is and what do I buy? GM cars I also did drive a Rav-4 and CR-V when shopping to the Torrent for the price and features I could hardly afford not to get it. Same goes with the Bonneville I drove a TL (loved it and couldn't afford it) and a used 04 Avalon and hated it just for comparison in the same price range. (About 21K which is what I paid for it.)

Edited June 5, 2008 by gm4life

[regfootball]

i for one applaud life's rant.

he's speaking his mind and bringing up real issues. and he reflects what a lot of people feel, its just that we are forced into believing you should hide what you feel. I do not think life's rant ventured into inappropriate, its more about some of you being too sensitive and pussy eared to listen to it.

now i can bring up the story my dad told me a couple weekends ago when i visited him up in farm country....(i.e. my hometown of 300 people happens to have a chevy dealer despite the largest GM full line dealer in the state being 25 miles away, and there is usually 20-30 or more trucks new on their lot at any one time and they move through them like water in a faucet). Trucks sell big and tradition dies hard. In this part, even Ford cannot sell trucks, GM is king. One of my dad's acquaintances from his implement selling days told him a story. He was out shopping for new trucks and he bit on the propaganda and went to the toyo dealer, who managed to talk him into dropping 40+ on a new Turd.

The words no sooner left my dad's mouth (Tundra) and I knew what was coming. BLOWN EXPECTATIONS.

Turns out it wasn't any of the common things, i.e. busted tailgate, bed bounce, engine schrapnel.....no his truck was getting EIGHT MILES TO THE GALLON.

Buyer complained back to the dealer and they basically said it was his fault the way he is driving it.

Stories like that get around farm country and I don't think we will be seeing big sales there.

To get back to life's rant.......everyone who exclusively shops imports or is a big US brand hater, I think we need to examine why you can hate these people so much. Its because they are selfish and think their $h! don't stink and that they are untouchable. There is no reason for Camry and Civic to blow off the sales like they do being the mediocre cars they are when there are so many other excellent choices on the market. With all the choices and folks only gravitating to the lowest common denominator (camry) is absolutely insane. But it really is about how effed up in the head a lot of folks are. They sit and crticize the american automakers, and they don't even have a clue that Ford and GM are global and produce many good products. ANd these same people who are venomous in their disdain for US automakers, they think they are untouchable and exempt from criticism themselves. This is why they perceive things the way they do. In this regard, perhaps the move to outsourcing the country is ok. But let me say this. The only reason a lot of the DICKWADS in this country get away with it......example. Take your well compensated doctor who buys a Lexus. I suppose his industry is not under assault from other companies in a global market. It's not like if I need surgery I can be picky about and fly over to Japan to get my bone fixed. Said doctor doesn't need to make it up in his business for the doctors in Japan getting govt. assistance to prop up their financing. Or financial markets trader, how is that prick subject to losing all his business from foreign companies. Or the banker. Or marketing people. Let's let all these paper service industry jerks see their well being subject to companies from other nations coming in and assaulting their market. Lets see all our college professors have their status in the world threatened because we'll let the University of Calcutta send in 1000 profs for a new Masters program in DC or Denver or whatever.

Basically a lot of folks are on the gravy train and their place hasn't been challenged. They think their $h! don't stink and they have no humility and don't get that chances are quite good outsiders could very easily invade their industry and displace their ass to burger king as well. I think that if a lot of these people who have too high an opinion of themselves had their run of the mill ass brought back down to earth and smelled their own turd for a change like the rest of us have been doing, maybe they would look at a few more things when it comes to purchase decisions.

Rarely do i find that well compensated people in this country are exceptional people these days. They often are products of luck or snowballing people into thinking they are special. A lot of 'professional' people in this country really need to be brought down a couple notches. What they do and where they got is eye candy to cover up that they are specks of dirt like everyone else. It would be of benefit to us all if we could make all these people as replaceable as they treat everyone else.

I for one am sick and tired of the self righteousness of the upper crap, um, crust in this country and the lack of worth they assign on everyone else. Chickens come roost. Maybe we need to have an economic crash to reassign the 'market value' of 75% of our country's population, the ones who make 6 figures or more. that might just send the best message.

[daves87rs]

I agree with pretty much everything Reg said.

You don't know how good you have it until it's gone......

[frogger]

I know quite a few 100K income earners, and only a couple of them are the type to be fiscally irresponsible.. i.e. new cars every 3 years, always trying to make their homes look like on the designer TV shows, always going out for nice dinners and buying vacations on credit etc. Most of them are too obessed with paying down their debts, building nest eggs, continuing education etc. So I'm not sure they will be the hardest hit by the recession/depression when it comes. Actually most of these people are first or second generation Canadians.

[gm4life]

Reg your are a fine person. I am glad you understand me. Where do you live can I ask... A farmer actually bought the Toyo $h! and got a Turd. That is bad. I have always said stand up and be counted. So I was. Your a good person and have a strong back-bone. People do have soft ears.

Edit... I did drive those vehicles when shopping but did favor Bonn/Torr and the price they had on them plus they were American. I did consider an Accord when I got the GP back in '90 and again in '01 when I got the Impala. So I do have an open mind.

Edited June 5, 2008 by gm4life

[Robert Hall]

I know quite a few 100K income earners, and only a couple of them are the type to be fiscally irresponsible.. i.e. new cars every 3 years, always trying to make their homes look like on the designer TV shows, always going out for nice dinners and buying vacations on credit etc. Most of them are too obessed with paying down their debts, building nest eggs, continuing education etc. So I'm not sure they will be the hardest hit by the recession/depression when it comes. Actually most of these people are first or second generation Canadians.

I know quite a few 100k+ earners as well...and I'm one of them. We work hard for the money and many of us know how to manage our money. Reg's comments seem like sour grapes or class envy from someone who isn't making the bank they felt they were entitled to. And $100k or so isn't remotely rich, it's upper middle class... mildly affluent.

[regfootball]

I know quite a few 100k+ earners as well...and I'm one of them. We work hard for the money and many of us know how to manage our money. Reg's comments seem like sour grapes or class envy from someone who isn't making the bank they felt they were entitled to. And $100k or so isn't remotely rich, it's upper middle class... mildly affluent.

there's not a lot of people making 100k Mr. and there is no middle class these days. Feel fortunate if you are one of them. And be sure once in a while to look over your shoulder for the axe. The gravy train does end at some point.

[regfootball]

Reg your are a fine person. I am glad you understand me. Where do you live can I ask... A farmer actually bought the Toyo $h! and got a Turd. That is bad. I have always said stand up and be counted. So I was. Your a good person and have a strong back-bone. People do have soft ears.

Edit... I did drive those vehicles when shopping but did favor Bonn/Torr and the price they had on them plus they were American. I did consider an Accord when I got the GP back in '90 and again in '01 when I got the Impala. So I do have an open mind.

as an aside, i do believe people should have the choice to buy what they want, just that blind discounting of things produced by own people and not understanding how we should at least give some thought to that is my beef. If some of the overpaid folks in this country were even half mindful of how to be stewards with what they earn, then i would have no reason to bitch.

[enzl]

I know quite a few 100k+ earners as well...and I'm one of them. We work hard for the money and many of us know how to manage our money. Reg's comments seem like sour grapes or class envy from someone who isn't making the bank they felt they were entitled to. And $100k or so isn't remotely rich, it's upper middle class... mildly affluent.

My thoughts exactly.

And who has the right to judge what somebody is by how much they make? If one was to substitute sexual orientation or race instead of earnings, lots of people would be up in arms. I always figured some of the resentment expresed here was a result of class-ism, but I've never seen it more profoundly (and mistakenly) expressed than in this thread.

I can't speak about anyone else's experience, but I know I've been working since HS to get to where I'm at. 20+ years straight.

Bottom line is this: People choose Toyandissans because the choice is logical. There's no risk involved. These companies recent history indicates the choice may not be the BEST one, but it probably won't lead to regret either.

Never forget that GM, Ford & Chrysler have willfully placed themselves into the position they are in. Poor decisionmaking at all levels of these companies have brought them to the brink. It is their tenuous condition that is exploited by the price of gas or the economy--but they wouldn't have been there in the first place if they had WORKED HARD AT DOING IT RIGHT.

Just like a bunch of wealthy people I know.

[Blake Noble]

Enzl is correct in that there are people with wealth that worked and worked hard and earned what they have.

(That doesn't mean wealthy and affluent people should get tax breaks, but that is another story and another opinion ...)

[regfootball]

there are. just not all of them, much less most of them.

And who has the right to judge what somebody is by how much they make?

It goes on every day. Just as the po judge the well to do, many of the well to do make tremendous sport out of judging every aspect out of those that are po. In every facet, intellect, looks, social graces, you name it. If you're not well to do, you might as well slit your wrists in some people's eyes. They don't say it outright from the mountaintops but its in the undertones of everything that goes on in this country on a day to day basis.

Edited June 5, 2008 by regfootball

[enzl]

there are. just not all of them, much less most of them.

It goes on every day. Just as the po judge the well to do, many of the well to do make tremendous sport out of judging every aspect out of those that are po. In every facet, intellect, looks, social graces, you name it. If you're not well to do, you might as well slit your wrists in some people's eyes. They don't say it outright from the mountaintops but its in the undertones of everything that goes on in this country on a day to day basis.

So, 2 wrongs make a right, huh?

Many people have advantages or things they haven't 'earned'...others are victims of circumstances beyond their control and suffer unfairly.

Lemme tell you something...everyone living in THIS country has won the lottery, my friend. Go to the Sudan, or Indonesia or China and tell me how the 'average' person lives---generally, we treat our dogs better than these people live.

I, personally, work at treating all with respect-- but this thread is just an attempt to justify ignorant behavior and thought. Perhaps that why some of you haven't 'made' it? Or has that thought not occurred to some of you?

[Intrepidation]

This thread is pathetic. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Rants are one, thing, but midless banter and trying to blame others or wanting to kill them because they bought something? I mean c'mon.

[zhawk]

I'm not going to go into right or wrong on the rant that started this all, I'll just say this about it. Everyone needs to let off steam once in a while and as long as they don't let it turn into long lasting blind hatred then give people the benefit of the doubt and let them return to reason as they cool down.

As for the financial comments posted though, I have been somewhat on both sides of the coin here. I grew up in a household that knew what it was like to wonder where the next meal would come from or if it would come at all. Both of my parents worked, and worked hard, to try to make ends meet. Now, I make enough to ensure that won't happen to my kids (and I am very grateful) and with Tammy working, together we earn pretty close to 6 figures. I have worked hard to get where I am at and spend quite a few nights working hard still. Being an Aircraft mechanic pays pretty decent, even working for the government (Civilian working for the Air Force), but I earn my pay.

All of this means that I can understand the frustration known by those who have little or nothing, as well as know how it feels to be somewhat comfortable financially. Everyone, hating (or holding a grudge) against those who have made themselves a decent life is worthless, it may be hard but most anyone can improve their lot in life. I am pretty decent proof of that.

Take care all.

[Bimmer325]

This is the type of immaturity that drives people away from C&G. There used to be intelligent discussion around here, now we get things like this. Its not even in the lounge, which is hidden from guests, its in C&G Features, a forum that should be dedicated to actual intelligent thought and not stupid ignorance.

And everyone wonders why C&G has been on the decline.

[gm4life]

I understand where Reg is coming from, but honestly I do no losts of 100K owners who work very hard for what they have. Many drive Suburban LTZ's ironically enough along with a Bimmer or something. Go figure.

[Sixty8panther]

I've posted drunk before... it's usually 20% funny and 80% embarrassing the next day.

[Satty]

there's not a lot of people making 100k Mr. and there is no middle class these days. Feel fortunate if you are one of them. And be sure once in a while to look over your shoulder for the axe. The gravy train does end at some point.

Bitter much?

I dont make a whole lot (like $37k last year, which isn't too bad for a student) , but I dont resent those who make more or blame those who make less. Since adding the second income to my household, the financial dynamic has changed for the better, which led to a new car. Well, the old car catching on fire actually led to a new car, but the financial dynamic allowed for a new car. My brilliant idea was a CTS, which seemed a bit ostentatious for a couple of 20-somethings, and after throwing around a few other idea, she set her sights on a hybrid, which led to tracking down a Prius. Didn't refuse any vehicle based on country of origin, or consider what our neighbors would think, just began a process and let it play out.

[frogger]

LOL many years ago when I frequented it, one of my drunk posts got responded to by Edmunds editors.

[CARBIZ]

Look, for the most part, we are 'among friends' here anyway. If we can't vent off a little steam now and then - well, the world is a sadder place than I realize. This is the 'lounge.' We've had pretty raunchy tirades before. A newcomer may not even make it this far, being as the auto related subjects are stacked much higher on the main menu.

It's interesting to hear that zhawk is an aircraft mechanic - kudos! But didn't I read somewhere that one of the major airlines was moving its maintenace over to Asia somewhere because it was cheaper? I'm racking my brain right now, but I can't remember which airline announced it. I just remember thinking at the time, 'great, more high paying, technical jobs being shipped overseas.'

The trickle is becoming a torrent and at some point nobody is going to have a decent job, the U.S. dollar will be worthless and all the good patents will be owned overseas as well. Each and every one of us is responsible for making our lives, and the people's lives around us better, each and every day. Don't wait for someone else to do it.

Wasn't it a German priest who coined the famous quote about the 'brownshirts' coming for the gypsies, and he did nothing, then they came for the Jews and he did nothing, then they came for the homosexuals and he still did nothing, then they finally came for him and there was no one left to do anything about it.

That little story has always haunted me. At what point will our society have reached the point of no return, where only a war or major correction will right things?

[frogger]

Does middle class now means 2 cars less than 5 years old, 2 big screen TV's, 2 yearly family vacation trips and weekly dinners out?

I grew up what I considered middle class. Didn't board a plane except to move to a different city (my dad got transferred) until I was 20 and supporting myself. We had one car, cable TV eventually, shopped at discount stores. New car every 8 years or so. I always had food on the table, always got christmas and birthday presents, went out for dinner about once a month. No video game machine (this was the 80's). Lots of friends, played sports, rode my 10 speed bike everywhere. It was a very happy, family focused childhood.

[regfootball]

So, 2 wrongs make a right, huh?

Many people have advantages or things they haven't 'earned'...others are victims of circumstances beyond their control and suffer unfairly.

Lemme tell you something...everyone living in THIS country has won the lottery, my friend. Go to the Sudan, or Indonesia or China and tell me how the 'average' person lives---generally, we treat our dogs better than these people live.

I, personally, work at treating all with respect-- but this thread is just an attempt to justify ignorant behavior and thought. Perhaps that why some of you haven't 'made' it? Or has that thought not occurred to some of you?

holy crap, the moral majority does post on here.

are you gonna spank me now and take away my toys too, Jesus?

I'd board the plane to Sudan to check it out now and see the po folk there, but the airlines closed down due to lack of business. It all got outsourced overseas because the execs thought they could get cheaper labor.

Edited June 6, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

I understand where Reg is coming from, but honestly I do no losts of 100K owners who work very hard for what they have. Many drive Suburban LTZ's ironically enough along with a Bimmer or something. Go figure.

i'm not using 100k as a factual benchmark and i don't mean FAMILY income. If two wage earners can pool 100k, that's doing good considering how effed the middle class is and how hard the two have to work to make it work.

Nah, i am referring to those fortunate enough to have the dual wage earners who both make sick amounts of money and it allows them to lead the life of choice.....both work and you have money up the arse, and hence can afford to be very selfish in every aspect of your life, or the one wage earner makes enough to still allow princess mom to spend lavishly and feed her child rearing habit and still be upset because she didn't get to buy the 3k leather couch from restoration hardware.

my basic beef is the wage spread in this country is WAYYYYYYYY too far apart, and as much as the upper CRUST likes to think they are immune to anything that would provoke inconvenience in their life, i think at some point that spread has to be reduced. One of two ways. The people in the toilet making more to pay 4 dollar gas, or the people who make way too much to just travel and sit in meetings and pretend importance will need their wages reduced so everyone else can stay employed and fuel the economy.

there is no way anyone can logically justify why the low end folks in this country get screwed like they do in comparison. Such a shame we all can't parlay daddy's money into a private school mba just so we can drive that lexus and obsess about whether active torque split on the drive system meets our personal specs.

Edited June 6, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Look, for the most part, we are 'among friends' here anyway. If we can't vent off a little steam now and then - well, the world is a sadder place than I realize. This is the 'lounge.' We've had pretty raunchy tirades before. A newcomer may not even make it this far, being as the auto related subjects are stacked much higher on the main menu.

It's interesting to hear that zhawk is an aircraft mechanic - kudos! But didn't I read somewhere that one of the major airlines was moving its maintenace over to Asia somewhere because it was cheaper? I'm racking my brain right now, but I can't remember which airline announced it. I just remember thinking at the time, 'great, more high paying, technical jobs being shipped overseas.'

The trickle is becoming a torrent and at some point nobody is going to have a decent job, the U.S. dollar will be worthless and all the good patents will be owned overseas as well. Each and every one of us is responsible for making our lives, and the people's lives around us better, each and every day. Don't wait for someone else to do it.

Wasn't it a German priest who coined the famous quote about the 'brownshirts' coming for the gypsies, and he did nothing, then they came for the Jews and he did nothing, then they came for the homosexuals and he still did nothing, then they finally came for him and there was no one left to do anything about it.

That little story has always haunted me. At what point will our society have reached the point of no return, where only a war or major correction will right things?

doesn't matter to the discerning individual as long as they have a lexus in their garage.

Edited June 6, 2008 by regfootball

[Intrepidation]

The level of ignorance in this thread is astounding.

[regfootball]

The level of ignorance in this thread is astounding.

because you know of endless examples of a nation of people who actually give a hoot about the health of their nations companies and industries- besides themselves?

Edited June 6, 2008 by regfootball

[Guest aatbloke]

This thread is pathetic. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Rants are one, thing, but midless banter and trying to blame others or wanting to kill them because they bought something? I mean c'mon.

I agree. Having the freedom of choice is very important, and if those choices include the possibility of buying a car not built domestically then the onus is on the domestic industry to build a better and mor desirable product in more peoples' eyes. America is one such country that I have always believed embraces both freedom of choice and striving to be better and more competitive. To be competitive and better, you have to maximise both profitability and a mindset that buying cheap is not necessarily buying wisely.

Wanting to cause harm to others who make choices in buying a consumable item that are different to that of oneself is absolutely ridiculous.

[Guest aatbloke]

because you know of endless examples of a nation of people who actually give a hoot about the health of their nations companies and industries- besides themselves?

If the US government mandated tomorrow that no foreign automaker could buy or sell a car in the USA, you'd first of all be removing freedom of choice. Then, with the choice that's left, you're facing manufacturers who have no incentive whatsoever to give the public a) what it wants or b) build a good product.

Edited June 6, 2008 by aatbloke

[regfootball]

If the US government mandated tomorrow that no foreign automaker could buy or sell a car in the USA, you'd first of all be removing freedom of choice. Then, with the choice that's left, you're facing manufacturers who have no incentive whatsoever to give the public a) what it wants or b) build a good product.

you are not getting what i am saying. having the choice is valid. its the attitude of people, the arrogance, not even considering to give businesses of their own country a chance, especially considering they are probably making like bandits doing something that has till now not been been subject to the same level of consumer scrutiny, choice, and snobbishness.

everyone here has a car and it creates a great marketplace that outisde countries can come in and set up shop and suck the money out. that's great. Cars are a very visible industry. There's a lot of other industries in this country that this could happen to but it hasn't yet because their industries are not about manufacturing where it is easy for the outsiders to use their inherent advantages to exploit our money flow.

I can't wait for the day when for example, some high level marketing manager for a healthcare company has to stress out because half of what their company does is being farmed out to say, India, and the entire management team gets to pack their box and go home....because the customers decided for some reason the brochures were prettier from the other company. Even if it costs more.

Or how bout a whole entire senior management for one of the nations top banks, lets say our people decided to do all their loans through first bank of Mexico. Now these are people that are adept at golden parachutes and such so they may not get screwed as they should, but my point is cars are an industry everyone is this country seems ok to dump on in the name of defending their choice but if other more lucrative jobs were getting dumped due to the same phenomenon, the uproar and bailouts would be off the charts.......

[Intrepidation]

you are not getting what i am saying. having the choice is valid. its the attitude of people, the arrogance, not even considering to give businesses of their own country a chance, especially considering they are probably making like bandits doing something that has till now not been been subject to the same level of consumer scrutiny, choice, and snobbishness.

That, is very well said.