I'm afraid of reading Enzl's next post

[Camino LS6]

Because I'm likely to agree with him given today's news.

I think GM has just lost its corporate mind.

[PurdueGuy]

panic is a bad state of mind for decision making.

[Camino LS6]

panic is a bad state of mind for decision making.

Exactly.

[Blake Noble]

panic is a bad state of mind for decision making.

And yet that is what GM does in face of challenge: panic. Where is the proud, confident leadership that GM really needs?

GM needs their own Alan Mullaly; someone from the outside who knows what to do to turn it all around with a sound vision of what the company should be and the courage to hand a pink slip to anyone who isn't willing to get with the program.

[daves87rs]

Because I'm likely to agree with him given today's news.

I think GM has just lost its corporate mind.

[Intrepidation]

Historically it has been Chrysler that faces a Challenge, even certain dead, head on with new, groundbreaking product. That of course was before being anally raped. Today it's Ford that seems to actually be rising to the Challenge, and we can see results of this new mindset with real results, namely the Fiesta and next Taurus. Not only that but they are actually listening (bring the hatch Fiesta to the US after all).

Time will tell in the end, but I do hope all 3 of them find the courage, innovation, and strength of leadership to not only survive but make a comeback, and prove again to the world we are the best at building desirable cars.

[Robert Hall]

And yet that is what GM does in face of challenge: panic. Where is the proud, confident leadership that GM really needs?

GM needs their own Alan Mullaly; someone from the outside who knows what to do to turn it all around with a sound vision of what the company should be and the courage to hand a pink slip to anyone who isn't willing to get with the program.

An outsider could help, look how Lutz helped...IMHO, GM has too many lifers in charge who seem to have little grasp of the state of the auto market outside of SE Michigan.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I had a perfectly fine day, we even went out to dinner.

[Sixty8panther]

PSC:

How can you be so damn happy with GM's stupidity and the death of worthy product?

You're like the parent that laughs when their kid breaks a leg!

[Blake Noble]

Historically it has been Chrysler that faces a Challenge, even certain dead, head on with new, groundbreaking product. That of course was before being anally raped. Today it's Ford that seems to actually be rising to the Challenge, and we can see results of this new mindset with real results, namely the Fiesta and next Taurus. Not only that but they are actually listening (bring the hatch Fiesta to the US after all).

Anymore, it is Ford I am keeping within the distance of my left ear (GM within the distance of the right, of course). Rear-drive is still on the table there and the company listens to what it's customers want (in all honesty, they always have; if they didn't, they would have replaced the Mustang with the Probe long ago like they intended to). If Bill Jr. was still in charge, it wouldn't be anything like the way it is going to be in the future.

Time will tell in the end, but I do hope all 3 of them find the courage, innovation, and strength of leadership to not only survive but make a comeback, and prove again to the world we are the best at building desirable cars.

Agreed.

[Blake Noble]

I had a perfectly fine day, we even went out to dinner.

Good to hear you are doing well, sir.

I imagine you got the steak?

[daves87rs]

PSC:

How can you be so damn happy with GM's stupidity and the death of worthy product?

You're like the parent that laughs when their kid breaks a leg!

Becuse at the end of the day, he knows he will still have a job, and GM will still be around.

While he may not be happy with GM's every choice, he understands why.....

[daves87rs]

Time will tell in the end, but I do hope all 3 of them find the courage, innovation, and strength of leadership to not only survive but make a comeback, and prove again to the world we are the best at building desirable cars.

[daves87rs]

Good to hear you are doing well, sir.

I imagine you got the steak?

Mmmm...steak!

[z28luvr01]

Good to hear you are doing well, sir.

I imagine you got the steak?

Nah, the restaurant heard GM execs were coming and decided to only serve chicken.

[Chevy Nick]

The Volt is the most important product in the pipeline for GM, they haven't screwed that one yet.

[enzl]

I guess I've hit the big time---got my own thread..

This is certainly not the way I wanted to be proven right. It's depressing---and some of the bad news has actually been knocked off the front pages (BAS battery failures, 900 Hybrid sales)---and not something I was looking forward to....

What blows my mind is the meek response by GM management---there's not a reputable business journal that has said anything positive about this management team in months, if not years.

I wish GM the best. But I fear the worst.

Anyone wanna start an RW dead pool? My bet is he doesn't see 2009 as their CEO.

I'm going to do my best to keep my posts as positive as possible. They've made it extraordinarily difficult to do so, but I'm going to try.

[CARBIZ]

Historically it has been Chrysler that faces a Challenge, even certain dead, head on with new, groundbreaking product. That of course was before being anally raped. Today it's Ford that seems to actually be rising to the Challenge, and we can see results of this new mindset with real results, namely the Fiesta and next Taurus. Not only that but they are actually listening (bring the hatch Fiesta to the US after all).

Time will tell in the end, but I do hope all 3 of them find the courage, innovation, and strength of leadership to not only survive but make a comeback, and prove again to the world we are the best at building desirable cars.

Ah, Chrysler was the last to react to the oil shocks of the '70s and nearly went bankrupt. GM started downsizing in 1977 while Chrysler continued producing bloated beasts. Although Chrysler was the first to come out with a FWD transversal engine configuration (the Omni/Horizon), it only did so with a VW engine.

GM led the pack in the '70s and made daring decisions. Ford and GM beat Chrysler with their own 'small' cars in the '60s, too. The Valiant came out after the Corvair and Falcon.

Chrysler has been lucky in the past because it has always been the smallest of the Big 3 and, consequently, the easiest to turn around.

[CARBIZ]

I wonder how much of what is being publicly said is for the benefit of the UAW/CAW. The recent announcements of closing the Windsor transmission plant, the Oshawa truck plant, etc. all sounds very dire, but isn't that what negotiating is all about? Make a low-ball offer and see what the counter offer is?

[cletus8269]

GM led the pack in the '70s and made daring decisions. Ford and GM beat Chrysler with their own 'small' cars in the '60s, too. The Valiant came out after the Corvair and Falcon.

man i wish we had a man like Ed Cole running the show again. it was he that made some great moves back in the day. i used to think he was a bum cause he made the call to drop compression for the 71 model year, but after doing some reading about him and where he came from and all the things he accomplished, if we could only have someone of his character and expertise back in the saddle people would say toyo-what?

as far as the domestics i sadly have my money on ford for now, they were looking bleak and suddenly they are heading back up, with a very secure line up. the next 5 years are going to be a long strange trip.

[C.H.U.D.]

Nah, the restaurant heard GM execs were coming and decided to only serve chicken.

ZING!!!

[Intrepidation]

Ah, Chrysler was the last to react to the oil shocks of the '70s and nearly went bankrupt. GM started downsizing in 1977 while Chrysler continued producing bloated beasts. Although Chrysler was the first to come out with a FWD transversal engine configuration (the Omni/Horizon), it only did so with a VW engine.

GM led the pack in the '70s and made daring decisions. Ford and GM beat Chrysler with their own 'small' cars in the '60s, too. The Valiant came out after the Corvair and Falcon.

Chrysler has been lucky in the past because it has always been the smallest of the Big 3 and, consequently, the easiest to turn around.

Minivans

First gen Neon (considered among the best compacts of it's time, not the quality issues they have now)

Cab Forward Design

LX platform

Just to name a few.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Dodgefan

[CARBIZ]

man i wish we had a man like Ed Cole running the show again. it was he that made some great moves back in the day. i used to think he was a bum cause he made the call to drop compression for the 71 model year, but after doing some reading about him and where he came from and all the things he accomplished, if we could only have someone of his character and expertise back in the saddle people would say toyo-what?

as far as the domestics i sadly have my money on ford for now, they were looking bleak and suddenly they are heading back up, with a very secure line up. the next 5 years are going to be a long strange trip.

Yeah, I read that, too. He caught hell at the time, but it proved that GM was ahead of the times. Don't forget, the catalytic converter was GM's, too. It makes me wonder when we started attacking everything GM does and ever did.

[CARBIZ]

Minivans

First gen Neon (considered among the best compacts of it's time, not the quality issues they have now)

Cab Forward Design

LX platform

Just to name a few.

The minivan was actually Ford's idea. When Iaccoca came over from Ford, he brought with him a few of his pals who had kicked around the idea of a minivan.

The original Neon was cute and fast, but very, very rough. I rented one for a week in Victoria back in '94. Quality issues plagued it from the beginning, including the fact that an 8 year old could steal one.

Don't get me wrong, Chrysler has contributed a lot over the years (they had the best 3 spd auto for decades, the 'slant-6', they were the first to capitalize on unibody construction, etc.) but they have never been considered a 'trailblazer.' I"ve often wondered if Chrysler would still be around if it hadn't bought Jeep in the late '80s.

Even today, as bad as some critics harp on GM, in many ways GM is ahead of the pack: 5 spd autos (over at BMW), OnStar, 5 year maintenance intervals (started 13 years ago at Cadillac and now company-wide) and others.

[A Horse With No Name]

Nah, the restaurant heard GM execs were coming and decided to only serve chicken.

....at the rate we are going, Sushi, Bratwurst, and Kimshi will be all that auto execs are eating....

Seriously, I think GM will make it.

[A Horse With No Name]

Minivans

First gen Neon (considered among the best compacts of it's time, not the quality issues they have now)

Cab Forward Design

LX platform

Just to name a few.

But they are losing the leads they have built on all of these.

LX is dead, replaced by less fuel efficient RWD cars.

Honda now sells the best selling Minivan.

First gen Neon was a decent car, but Chrysler is getting it's ass KICKED by Honda, Toyota, Mazda, VW, GM, Ford, and a few others in the small car department.

Chrysler IMHO seems to get off to a good start but then never take advantadge of their lead and keep up with a good thing.

Chris

[daves87rs]

The minivan was actually Ford's idea. When Iaccoca came over from Ford, he brought with him a few of his pals who had kicked around the idea of a minivan.

The original Neon was cute and fast, but very, very rough. I rented one for a week in Victoria back in '94. Quality issues plagued it from the beginning, including the fact that an 8 year old could steal one.

Don't get me wrong, Chrysler has contributed a lot over the years (they had the best 3 spd auto for decades, the 'slant-6', they were the first to capitalize on unibody construction, etc.) but they have never been considered a 'trailblazer.' I"ve often wondered if Chrysler would still be around if it hadn't bought Jeep in the late '80s.

Even today, as bad as some critics harp on GM, in many ways GM is ahead of the pack: 5 spd autos (over at BMW), OnStar, 5 year maintenance intervals (started 13 years ago at Cadillac and now company-wide) and others.

And you Forgot to add how many Neons never made it past 100k miles...

the 95-01 cars always had some serious head gasket issues...and if you weren't right on top of it, it was over quick...

Our old Neon was on it's SECOND head gasket when we traded it in for our Cavalier...

Which was a shame...

The Neon was fun to drive, and that little bugger was great on gas...

If I could find one in decent shape, I wouldn't find another one.....

[cletus8269]

Yeah, I read that, too. He caught hell at the time, but it proved that GM was ahead of the times. Don't forget, the catalytic converter was GM's, too. It makes me wonder when we started attacking everything GM does and ever did.

speaking of being ahead of the times, he also tried to get a rotary powered chevy to market shortly before he retired, the only drawback was the emissions were just too bad.

"Chevrolet acquired a licence for the Wankel engine in 1970. Two and four rotor engines were built and mounted mid-ships in experimental cars. They went on to get Pininfarina to style a new Corvette around the engine as they considered production options. Various two and four rotor, steel bodied and glass-fibre bodied Corvettes were worked on until 1974 when retiring GM president Ed Cole suspended rotary engine development due to emissions difficulties. Research was halted completely in 1977."

http://www.pistonheads.com/features/rotary/

[Intrepidation]

But they are losing the leads they have built on all of these.

LX is dead, replaced by less fuel efficient RWD cars.

Honda now sells the best selling Minivan.

First gen Neon was a decent car, but Chrysler is getting it's ass KICKED by Honda, Toyota, Mazda, VW, GM, Ford, and a few others in the small car department.

Chrysler IMHO seems to get off to a good start but then never take advantadge of their lead and keep up with a good thing.

Chris

You mean LH I'm assuming. LX was a smart move because it restored a lot of image to Chrysler. Problem was that the LX platform was the only worthwhile thing (and the Pacifica the only other good thing) to come out of the "merger" Daimler royally screwed Chrysler, I have much faith yet in Cerberus yet.

I wouldn't really call the Cobalt ass kicking save for SS form and the fuel efficient of one trim level. Nothing Ford has in the NA small car lineup yet I would consider ass kicking either (but that will change).

The Odyssey is one of the best, but "best" isn't a title I would give it. If you've ever used the new Chrysler vans for their intended purpose (hauling people and stuff, not carving up mountain roads like a BMW...which seems to be expected from everything these days) you'd appreciate the features you just can't get anywhere else. I love Stow `n Go. That feature along would get me to buy one of the vans.

I agree with the good start and them tripping over themselves part, but they were on quite a roll until a few years ago.

[A Horse With No Name]

I am one of those guys that gets discouraged easily, please pardon the tone of my post, DF. I just remember the good ole days of the 90's when Neons were kicking Honda ASS at every SCCA road race and auto X, the Intrepid/Concorde were still in production, etc.

The new vans are nice, maybe I just need to get used to them. Right now the Safari is serving as a work van and I am enjoying it's ability to be used as a work truck.

But my inlaws Chryco vans have been very good indeed.

Chris

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

PSC:

How can you be so damn happy with GM's stupidity and the death of worthy product?

You're like the parent that laughs when their kid breaks a leg!

because he is part of the stupidity.

Remember; he is not loyal to GMNA, but rather GME

[CARBIZ]

Did the Odyssey overtake the Caravan?

When did that happen? The last Canadian stats I saw (about a month ago) put the Caravan at #1 here, followed by the Uplander/SV6 twins (yes, Ripley's Believe It Or Not!), then followed by the Odyssey. The Odyssey is a great van but very pricey.

And, Dodgefan, you can say what you will about the Cobalt, but in the 3 years it has been around, there have been very few service bulletins on it and no major recalls. That is a lot more than can be said about either the Focus or Neon.