GM Officially Cancels Zeta Buick

[Intrepidation]

Right - such as Carbiz' and Croc's derogatory comments towards accountants and solicitors. I don't see an awful lot of respect from GM hardliners here towards competitors such as Toyota, either.

Still, when it suits ...

I'm not singling you out, I'm talking about the board in general. FWIW I enjoy most of your posts and the different perspective you bring to the board.

[Guest aatbloke]

I'm not singling you out, I'm talking about the board in general. FWIW I enjoy most of your posts and the different perspective you bring to the board.

I understand that, but I think anyone with a great deal of life experience and a long-established trade or profession under their belts will get annoyed when a youngster from another continent not only displays a complete lack of knowledge or understanding regarding issues on your home turf - either geograpically or professionally - which you're au fait with, but then attempts to belittle you with comments such as "I don't wish to discuss it again" and "the difference between reality and a few tactical facts" when they themselves have no idea as to the actual reality as to what they're talking about.

There's no denying who is a GM enthusiast here: there are plenty. There's no denying either who are car enthusiasts here: again, there are plenty. But those on here with any substantial knowledge about company law, accounting or the European marketplace are very few and far between.

[cletus8269]

[buyacargetacheck]

aatbloke, how important is branding to corporate "company car" requisitioners in the UK? Seems like branding would be almost irrelevant compared to the "deal."

Also, I've read that the name "Vauxhall" has the same so-so image among Britons that Pontiac or Buick have among Americans. How many sales would be lost if "Vauxhall" badges were replaced with "Opel" ones?

Moving production of any marque out of the UK seems unlikely and risky as long as the pound remains.

I am quite sure that only the most educated American car enthusiasts are aware that Vauxhall's success depends largely on supplying the company car market in the UK, the world's largest such market. Over the past ten years, Vauxhall has gained more of that market from Ford of Europe. As such, this is an important marque and company. If it wasn't, GME wouldn't have made the investment to convert Ellesmere Port to Delta II production - since the UK is likely to be Astra mk6's largest market.

Edited August 11, 2008 by buyacargetacheck

[Guest aatbloke]

aatbloke, how important is branding to corporate "company car" requisitioners in the UK? Seems like branding would be almost irrelevant compared to the "deal."

Also, I've read that the name "Vauxhall" has the same so-so image among Britons that Pontiac or Buick have among Americans. How many sales would be lost if "Vauxhall" badges were replaced with "Opel" ones?

Moving production of any marque out of the UK seems unlikely and risky as long as the pound remains.

Branding is particularly important as it can affect both lease rates and insurance; likewise so is where the vehicle is actually sourced. UK-sourced parts for example affect both considerably. One good example is the Nissan Micra; back in the 1980's a replacement rear window cost in excess of £600 to replace when the model was built in Japan; newer, UK-built models are roughly 80% of that cost. As such, the car increased in popularity as insurance rates dropped.

Vauxhall had a very so-so image for many years, but these days its products are a good deal more credible. It has clawed much of Ford's market share over the past decade and now regularly has four models in the top 10 monthly best-seller charts, recently ousting Ford's Mondeo completely from the top 10. Vauxhall's Network Q pioneered the supply-near-new direct from the manufacturer business and to this day remains more flexible than Ford's "Ford Direct" rival.

However, replacing Vauxhall completely with Opel is not likely to sit well with Mr & Mrs Average Brit, just as replacing Pontiac or Chevrolet with say, Holden wouldn't likely sit well with Americans. Despite the global nature of car manufacture, the average Vauxhall buyer sees the car as being British, in the same way as the average American punter sees Chevrolet as American, often unaware as to where the car is actually sourced. There's no telling how many sales would be lost if Opel nomenclature replaced Vauxhall, however when GME considered it in 2002 the idea was ultimately shelved. Vauxhall these days are turning the tables against Ford in the company car sales stakes for good reason as the line-up offers far more variety, and the products themselves are much improved. That isn't a status quo I'd have thought GME will want to mess with.

[buyacargetacheck]

Yeah, it's hard to say what benefit GM would realize by rationalizing the Vauxhall name.

BTW, is there any market at all in the UK for used "Opels" post-Chunnel?

Branding is particularly important as it can affect both lease rates and insurance; likewise so is where the vehicle is actually sourced. UK-sourced parts for example affect both considerably. One good example is the Nissan Micra; back in the 1980's a replacement rear window cost in excess of £600 to replace when the model was built in Japan; newer, UK-built models are roughly 80% of that cost. As such, the car increased in popularity as insurance rates dropped.

Vauxhall had a very so-so image for many years, but these days its products are a good deal more credible. It has clawed much of Ford's market share over the past decade and now regularly has four models in the top 10 monthly best-seller charts, recently ousting Ford's Mondeo completely from the top 10. Vauxhall's Network Q pioneered the supply-near-new direct from the manufacturer business and to this day remains more flexible than Ford's "Ford Direct" rival.

However, replacing Vauxhall completely with Opel is not likely to sit well with Mr & Mrs Average Brit, just as replacing Pontiac or Chevrolet with say, Holden wouldn't likely sit well with Americans. Despite the global nature of car manufacture, the average Vauxhall buyer sees the car as being British, in the same way as the average American punter sees Chevrolet as American, often unaware as to where the car is actually sourced. There's no telling how many sales would be lost if Opel nomenclature replaced Vauxhall, however when GME considered it in 2002 the idea was ultimately shelved. Vauxhall these days are turning the tables against Ford in the company car sales stakes for good reason as the line-up offers far more variety, and the products themselves are much improved. That isn't a status quo I'd have thought GME will want to mess with.

[Guest aatbloke]

Yeah, it's hard to say what benefit GM would realize by rationalizing the Vauxhall name.

BTW, is there any market at all in the UK for used "Opels" post-Chunnel?

There are two ways of obtaining a RHD Opel essentially: to buy an ROI-market model, or to arrange for a personal import from continental Europe. There are dealers across the Benelux and Germany who will supply Opels in RHD form to order - including those built in the UK oddly enough. This used to be an attractive proposition for do-it-yourselfers looking to get a good deal compared to the UK-market official product. However, in the late 1990's a Government commission ordered a complete revamp of the UK car market to response to the inordinate disparity of UK-market prices compared with those abroad, especially in countries like Belgium and Denmark. Since then, pan-EU prices have levelled out a great deal, and even moreso since the debut of the Euro, so personal imports aren't as popular a choice these days, not that they were ever popular per se to begin with. Indeed, price was the only reason to buy one, because you had to handle your own VAT affairs on the vehicle once in the UK, and they had no UK dealership or warranty backing. Given the overall specification was not standard for the UK market on these vehicles, they often suffered greater depreciation as well and insurance could only be obtained through specialist brokers such as Kings Lynn-based Adrian Flux, and often attracting higher rates.

I'd personally like to see Opel return to the UK market with a small range of high performance variants in the same mould as the Manta B to replace the VXR line, which to me smacks too much of "boy racer" imagery.

[thegriffon]

PCS is right about one though: Vauxhall as a company no longer exists. Earlier this year it became General Motors UK Ltd.

[thegriffon]

FOG, if they can get 6 litres into the smallest Sigma they'll be able to get 4 litres plus a turbo into an Alpha.

Heck, hasn't someone got a V8 into a Kappa?

Several people. If you have the money you can buy one in both the US and Europe. I'm sure Alpha models will accommodate and be offered with a V8, it will not be "affordable" though.

[Sixty8panther]

buyacargetacheck

Also, I've read that the name "Vauxhall" has the same so-so image among Britons that Pontiac or Buick have among Americans. How many sales would be lost if "Vauxhall" badges were replaced with "Opel" ones?

Do NOT start a fight you are not prepared to finish.

Trashing Pontiac & Buick to prove your point is beyond stupid.

Talk about an "apples to oranges" comparison!

[daves87rs]

I don't care whether you agree with me or not. When it comes to the UK and European arenas, I do know what I'm talking about. From this side of the pond, it's easy to spot those who do also, and just as easy to weadle out those who don't.

And you can tell that over the internet, huh?

And yeah, I do have a clue about what is going over there....I just don't get my panties in a bunch over it...

It's not like the guy I saw on a forum a few weeks ago who claimed his Cavalier had "Vtec" power.....

Remember, if you really want people to learn-you have to teach-not scream.

You do make some interesting points....dare I say insightful (grabs flame suit ) out of the box ideas........

[daves87rs]

Do NOT start a fight you are not prepared to finish.

Trashing Pontiac & Buick to prove your point is beyond stupid.

Talk about an "apples to oranges" comparison!

I'm not sure what the hell you are talking about 68.....he is relating image here......

[Guest aatbloke]

PCS is right about one though: Vauxhall as a company no longer exists. Earlier this year it became General Motors UK Ltd.

Griffon, I really am surprised at this coming from you. The above statement just isn't true.

General Motors (UK) Ltd was formed early in 2005 after GM-Daewoo's European operations became Chevrolet and Chevrolet (UK) Ltd was formed in 2004. This was part of a Europe-wide restructuring programme by GME.

GM (UK) Ltd is merely a "frontline" company for GM's UK marketing activities - it handles all the media, advertising, dealership, website and public relations operations for Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Saab in the UK and Opel in Ireland, under the jurisdiction of General Motors Europe. GM refers to it as a "business cluster." It's a holding company in its own right, however it is not a manufacturing or trading company.

That said, GM (UK) Ltd does have a structure though. It partially owns Chevrolet (UK) Ltd, and wholly owns both Saab GB Ltd and Opel Ireland Ltd as part of the group. Vauxhall Motors Ltd is also considered part of the group, however it is a wholly-owned subsidiary of GM in America. GMM Luton Ltd is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Vauxhall Motors Ltd and also part of the GM (UK) Ltd group. GM (UK) Ltd is essentially a corporation tax vehicle for GM in the UK and its income and expenditure are all management charges flowing between it and its related companies and subsidiary companies.

Vauxhall Motors Ltd is a manufacturing company, with GMM Luton Ltd being its commercial vehicle manufacturing subsidiary. Bill Parfitt was recently promoted in June from MD to Chairman of both manufacturing companies. This move followed John Browning's promotion from Chairman of Vauxhall Motors Ltd to one of GME's VPs.

GM (UK) Ltd is registered at Companies House and it shares its registered office at the same address in Luton, Bedfordshire with Vauxhall and GMM Luton.

Edited August 12, 2008 by aatbloke

[Oracle of Delphi]

Ut oh griffon, watch out you will become the next target. Don't you know you're not allowed to disagree with aatbloke? He needs a target, that's his MO. I personally am going to put him on ignore, that way I won't see his post at all, it's just what you have to do when someone becomes a forum troll. I'm sure most will come to the same conclusion, it's just a matter of time.

[Guest aatbloke]

Ut oh griffon, watch out you will become the next target. Don't you know you're not allowed to disagree with aatbloke? He needs a target, that's his MO. I personally am going to put him on ignore, that way I won't see his post at all, it's just what you have to do when someone becomes a forum troll. I'm sure most will come to the same conclusion, it's just a matter of time.

You're supposed to be an employee of GME - I would have thought you'd corroborate everything I've just said. But you're as far removed from GME as your home state is.

Bill Parfitt was praised when he was promoted to Chairman of Vauxhall Motors Ltd on 1 June, for his achievements in promoting GME UK sales which have made the UK GM's largest European market. By the figures, here's a country-by-country comparison:

http://www.gm.com/europe/corporate/sales/country/

So why the hell would GM get rid of Vauxhall? Yes, you'd be better off ignoring me, since you have nothing realistic to offer whatsoever, and you're so far out of your depth on this subject it's laughable.

Edited August 12, 2008 by aatbloke

[Robert Hall]

Griffon, I really am surprised at this coming from you. The above statement just isn't true.

General Motors (UK) Ltd was formed early in 2005 after GM-Daewoo's European operations became Chevrolet and Chevrolet (UK) Ltd was formed in 2004. This was part of a Europe-wide restructuring programme by GME.

GM (UK) Ltd is merely a "frontline" company for GM's UK marketing activities - it handles all the media, advertising, dealership, website and public relations operations for Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Saab in the UK and Opel in Ireland, under the jurisdiction of General Motors Europe. GM refers to it as a "business cluster." It's a holding company in its own right, however it is not a manufacturing or trading company.

That said, GM (UK) Ltd does have a structure though. It partially owns Chevrolet (UK) Ltd, and wholly owns both Saab GB Ltd and Opel Ireland Ltd as part of the group. Vauxhall Motors Ltd is also considered part of the group, however it is a wholly-owned subsidiary of GM in America. GMM Luton Ltd is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Vauxhall Motors Ltd and also part of the GM (UK) Ltd group. GM (UK) Ltd is essentially a corporation tax vehicle for GM in the UK and its income and expenditure are all management charges flowing between it and its related companies and subsidiary companies.

Vauxhall Motors Ltd is a manufacturing company, with GMM Luton Ltd being its commercial vehicle manufacturing subsidiary. Bill Parfitt was recently promoted in June from MD to Chairman of both manufacturing companies. This move followed John Browning's promotion from Chairman of Vauxhall Motors Ltd to one of GME's VPs.

GM (UK) Ltd is registered at Companies House and it shares its registered office at the same address in Luton, Bedfordshire with Vauxhall and GMM Luton.

Sounds like the brand equity for Vauxhall is with GM (UK) Ltd.... if Vauxhall Motors is just the manufacturing, it seems like GM could move all the manufacturing to S. Korea or Poland or elsewhere and just badge the models as Chevys, Opels, Vauxhall, whatever..

[Guest aatbloke]

Sounds like the brand equity for Vauxhall is with GM (UK) Ltd.... if Vauxhall Motors is just the manufacturing, it seems like GM could move all the manufacturing to S. Korea or Poland or elsewhere and just badge the models as Chevys, Opels, Vauxhall, whatever..

And why would they do that when the UK is GME's largest market? Ask any ordinary British punter what GM (UK) Ltd is and they'd have no idea. All it is is a holding company, a single cost centre, and a tax vehicle. Vauxhall is where the brand equity is, because that's the name on the frontage of every dealership selling their product.

GME have plants across Europe from Spain to the UK to Belgium to Germany to Poland making products with both Opel and Vauxhall badges on them - but they're owned and operated by various respective subsidiary companies in those countries.

GM has had the option to move the manufacture of Vauxhall products out of the UK since 1926. The next likely rationalisation for production may well be Antwerp as Astra VI production starts at Ellesmere Port and Bochum. But we'll see.

Edited August 12, 2008 by aatbloke

[Robert Hall]

And why would they do that when the UK is GME's largest market? Ask any ordinary British punter what GM (UK) Ltd is and they'd have no idea. All it is is a holding company, a single cost centre, and a tax vehicle. Vauxhall is where the brand equity is, because that's the name on the frontage of every dealership selling their product.

GME have plants across Europe from Spain to the UK to Belgium to Germany to Poland making products with both Opel and Vauxhall badges on them - but they're owned and operated by various respective subsidiary companies in those countries.

GM has had the option to move the manufacture of Vauxhall products out of the UK since 1926. The next likely rationalisation for production may well be Antwerp as Astra VI production starts at Ellesmere Port and Bochum. But we'll see.

I am surprised that GM still builds cars in the UK, though...I would the think the labour costs would be high compared to Poland, for instance. But who owns the Vauxhall brand name? GME, GM (UK) Ltd, or Vauxhall Manufacturing?

[Guest aatbloke]

I am surprised that GM still builds cars in the UK, though...I would the think the labour costs would be high compared to Poland, for instance. But who owns the Vauxhall brand name? GME, GM (UK) Ltd, or Vauxhall Manufacturing?

Vauxhall Motors Ltd owns the Vauxhall brand name. Although considered part of the group of companies that is GM (UK) Ltd, Vauxhall as a company is actually a wholly-owned subsidiary of GM in America.

When I refer to Vauxhall as a manufacturing or a trading company, that's because its Memorandum of Association allows it to be as such. GM (UK) isn't, it's merely a holding company and a way of consolidating certain costs - in this case, sales & marketing - for various GM marques operating in the UK under one umbrella. It was a clever move by GME, it allows the UK operation to make more money yet save on corporation tax by moving around management charges.

German labour costs are higher than the UK though - notoriously the highest in the world.

[SuperSport623]

AATbloke... may i contend with you that you make many well thought out, factual arguments. though like i said before, the problem you seem to have is getting carried away with stubbornness.

can we agree something? there are many reasons for GM to keep vauxhall open.... but what many people are trying to explain, it seems, is that if GM wanted to, they could replace vauxhall with opel in a heartbeat. lets get passed the brand awareness issue... im not gonna get into the negative ramifications of replacing vauxhall with opel, or the brand loyalty/awareness of vauxhall in england, because i dont know anything about the UK market, or how the english feel, as i have no experience in the matter. what i still stand firm on, is that while vauxhall does have an legal and financial identity, GM can do whatever the hell it wants with it.

im not asking it in a sarcastic way, im ansking in a curious way... are there in fact any models with sheetmetal exclusive to vauxhall? anything not shared with another division?

[Guest aatbloke]

AATbloke... may i contend with you that you make many well thought out, factual arguments. though like i said before, the problem you seem to have is getting carried away with stubbornness.

can we agree something? there are many reasons for GM to keep vauxhall open.... but what many people are trying to explain, it seems, is that if GM wanted to, they could replace vauxhall with opel in a heartbeat. lets get passed the brand awareness issue... im not gonna get into the negative ramifications of replacing vauxhall with opel, or the brand loyalty/awareness of vauxhall in england, because i dont know anything about the UK market, or how the english feel, as i have no experience in the matter. what i still stand firm on, is that while vauxhall does have an legal and financial identity, GM can do whatever the hell it wants with it.

im not asking it in a sarcastic way, im ansking in a curious way... are there in fact any models with sheetmetal exclusive to vauxhall? anything not shared with another division?

I've never stated that Vauxhall is independent from GM. I've said a million times that GM has the power to do whatever it likes with any subsidiary company. However, the difference is that with a subsidiary company, there could be an MBO or similar situation to keep the company in existence, whereas with a straightforward brand name such as Pontiac, it would simply ceased to exist.

What I do contend are peoples' arguments that Vauxhall and Opel are treated the same way as GM's North American brands. For example, both Vauxhall and Opel employ their own workforces and the union agreements are with those manufacturing companies as opposed to GME itself, even though GME pulls the product mix strings.

Vauxhall and Opel began sharing platforms in the late 1960's, and by the mid 1970's the products were broadly similar apart from styling and engine/trim differences. The cars became pretty much identical from 1984 after Vauxhall's version of T-Car - the Chevette - disappeared (Opel's T-Car, the Kadett was replaced by a FWD Kadett in 1979 which Vauxhall badged the Astra) and the Opel Manta B disappeared in 1985, the Vauxhall Cavalier equivalent of which ceased production in 1981. From 1991, with the introduction of the Astra mk3, and 1995, with the Vectra mk2, both marques shared model names as well.

[daves87rs]

I've never stated that Vauxhall is independent from GM. I've said a million times that GM has the power to do whatever it likes with any subsidiary company. However, the difference is that with a subsidiary company, there could be an MBO or similar situation to keep the company in existence, whereas with a straightforward brand name such as Pontiac, it would simply ceased to exist.

What I do contend are peoples' arguments that Vauxhall and Opel are treated the same way as GM's North American brands. For example, both Vauxhall and Opel employ their own workforces and the union agreements are with those manufacturing companies as opposed to GME itself, even though GME pulls the product mix strings.

Vauxhall and Opel began sharing platforms in the late 1960's, and by the mid 1970's the products were broadly similar apart from styling and engine/trim differences. The cars became pretty much identical from 1984 after Vauxhall's version of T-Car - the Chevette - disappeared (Opel's T-Car, the Kadett was replaced by a FWD Kadett in 1979 which Vauxhall badged the Astra) and the Opel Manta B disappeared in 1985, the Vauxhall Cavalier equivalent of which ceased production in 1981. From 1991, with the introduction of the Astra mk3, and 1995, with the Vectra mk2, both marques shared model names as well.

WHAT?

Ok, The Cavalier over there was a J body...in it's many different forms ...

Though It may not have been around that long....that platform wasn't in use until 1981-82.....and I'm quite sure the US saw the first use of it....

There is a reason why I'm called the king of the compacts....

( maybe I would trade ultra member for that..)

[Robert Hall]

WHAT?

Ok, The Cavalier over there was a J body...in it's many different forms ...

Though It may not have been around that long....that platform wasn't in use until 1981-82.....and I'm quite sure the US saw the first use of it....

There is a reason why I'm called the king of the compacts....

( maybe I would trade ultra member for that..)

There was a RWD Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier prior to the FWD J-car that came out in '81.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Cavalier

[daves87rs]

There was a RWD Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier prior to the FWD J-car that came out in '81.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Cavalier

Damn!

I fogot about those....

Sad part about that is I read that same wiki about 2 months ago in discussion.....

But Moltie owns me on that again....

Then again, we were talking about a RWD J body....

It was quite interesting......

[Guest aatbloke]

WHAT?

Ok, The Cavalier over there was a J body...in it's many different forms ...

Though It may not have been around that long....that platform wasn't in use until 1981-82.....and I'm quite sure the US saw the first use of it....

There is a reason why I'm called the king of the compacts....

( maybe I would trade ultra member for that..)

The first-generation, RWD Vauxhall Cavalier which debuted at th end of 1975 was essentially the same car as the Opel Ascona B but with different styling, resembling a more grown-up Vauxhall Chevette (T-Car). It came as a 2-door and 4-door saloon and a 2-door coupe. That coupe version, and later a three door sportback version launched in 1978, of the Cavalier were both essentially the same as the Opel Manta B which shared the Vauxhall's styling. The 2-door saloon Cavalier was reserved just for smaller-engined base models, although in the Ascona it featured throughout the entire range and engine option levels, as 2-door saloons were far more popular on the Continent than in the UK.

The first-gen Cavalier was meant to replace the Viva, although it carried on alongside the Cavalier and Chevette until October 1979, sharing the same 1256cc engine available in the Chevette and base versions of the Cavalier.

The Wikipedia article is incorrect in saying that the first-gen Cavalier was built in Antwerp initially, as in fact the car was built in Luton from the word go. Antwerp was used to source vehicles during periods of high demand. At this time, both the Ascona and Cavalier were sold Europe-wide, as were all Opels and Vauxhalls. The separation began in 1981 with J-Car introduction, when Opel became available only on the Continent and Ireland, while Vauxhall was sold in the UK and Ireland, but pulling out of the Irish market several years later. The last Opel models in the UK were the Monza and Manta B, which both lasted until 1985.

The second-gen FWD Vauxhall Cavalier debuted in late August of 1981 (I remember the day it went on sale) and was a version of the global J-Car. Apart from minor styling differences, the Opel Ascona C was identical. However, whereas the Ascona was only sold in 2-door, and 4-door saloon and 5-door hatch guises, along with a limited-run convertible, the Cavalier also had a small wagon, the panels of which were brought in from Australia as it was used by Holden in its Camira J-Car. The 2-door Cavalier saloon lasted only a brief period after introduction.

The third-gen Cavalier debuted in 1988 and used an extensively modified version of the former J-Car platform, again using 4-door saloon and 5-door hatch guises, but no estate. The car was also sold as the Opel Vectra A. This time, the Cavalier/Ascona came with both V6 and 4x4 options to compete with top versions of Ford's Sierra. The platform was also used in the 1993 Saab 900 and later the 9-3 rebadge. The pretty Calibra coupe debuted in 1989 and was identical underneath and used the Cavalier's interior, but by 1991 also came with 4x4, 6-speed 'box and turbocharged engine options, all of which also became available in latter-model Cavaliers.

In 1995, the second-gen all-new Vectra was introduced, a model name shared by Vauxhall and Opel and pretty much ending any major difference between Opel and Vauxhall cars.

Edited August 13, 2008 by aatbloke

[daves87rs]

The first-generation, RWD Vauxhall Cavalier which debuted at th end of 1975 was essentially the same car as the Opel Ascona B but with different styling, resembling a more grown-up Vauxhall Chevette (T-Car). It came as a 2-door and 4-door saloon and a 2-door coupe. That coupe version, and later a three door sportback version launched in 1978, of the Cavalier were both essentially the same as the Opel Manta B which shared the Vauxhall's styling. The 2-door saloon Cavalier was reserved just for smaller-engined base models, although in the Ascona it featured throughout the entire range and engine option levels, as 2-door saloons were far more popular on the Continent than in the UK.

The first-gen Cavalier was meant to replace the Viva, although it carried on alongside the Cavalier and Chevette until October 1979, sharing the same 1256cc engine available in the Chevette and base versions of the Cavalier.

The Wikipedia article is incorrect in saying that the first-gen Cavalier was built in Antwerp initially, as in fact the car was built in Luton from the word go. Antwerp was used to source vehicles during periods of high demand. At this time, both the Ascona and Cavalier were sold Europe-wide, as were all Opels and Vauxhalls. The separation began in 1981 with J-Car introduction, when Opel became available only on the Continent and Ireland, while Vauxhall was sold in the UK and Ireland, but pulling out of the Irish market several years later. The last Opel models in the UK were the Monza and Manta B, which both lasted until 1985.

The second-gen FWD Vauxhall Cavalier debuted in late August of 1981 (I remember the day it went on sale) and was a version of the global J-Car. Apart from minor styling differences, the Opel Ascona C was identical. However, whereas the Ascona was only sold in 2-door, and 4-door saloon and 5-door hatch guises, along with a limited-run convertible, the Cavalier also had a small wagon, the panels of which were brought in from Australia as it was used by Holden in its Camira J-Car. The 2-door Cavalier saloon lasted only a brief period after introduction.

The third-gen Cavalier debuted in 1988 and used an extensively modified version of the former J-Car platform, again using 4-door saloon and 5-door hatch guises, but no estate. The car was also sold as the Opel Vectra A. This time, the Cavalier/Ascona came with both V6 and 4x4 options to compete with top versions of Ford's Sierra. The platform was also used in the 1993 Saab 900 and later the 9-3 rebadge. The pretty Calibra coupe debuted in 1989 and was identical underneath and used the Cavalier's interior, but by 1991 also came with 4x4, 6-speed 'box and turbocharged engine options, all of which also became available in latter-model Cavaliers.

In 1995, the second-gen all-new Vectra was introduced, a model name shared by Vauxhall and Opel and pretty much ending any major difference between Opel and Vauxhall cars.

Very cool info.....

I've always thought that the J cars over there were pretty cool...it would have been nice to get some of that offered here....

The downside is that there is not many left.....

You wouldn't happen to have a few pics of a interior shots of the Cav with some options...the only pics that I was able to find were a few stripper models.....

[02ChevySS]

Yes, you'd be better off ignoring me, since you have nothing realistic to offer whatsoever, and you're so far out of your depth on this subject it's laughable.

aatbloke, I guess you win.... you answer with facts in this thread that he never directly addresses and you (and others) call his bull$h! in the Holden thread about this "theoretical" Swiss car and his response is to call you a troll and ignore your posts so he won't see them....classic!

Just like a 6 year old taking his ball and running home to his mom instead of sticking up for himself!

:rotflmao:

[regfootball]

why all the attention for vauxhall? man, if that's the case, here's 23 threads for mitsubishi.

[Guest aatbloke]

aatbloke, I guess you win.... you answer with facts in this thread that he never directly addresses and you (and others) call his bull$h! in the Holden thread about this "theoretical" Swiss car and his response is to call you a troll and ignore your posts so he won't see them....classic!

Just like a 6 year old taking his ball and running home to his mom instead of sticking up for himself!

:rotflmao:

Thanks mate I appreciate your kind words. PCS appears full of BS in everything I've seen him attempt to discuss. The topics he posts which tend to have any degree of credence tend to be articles he's copied from elsewhere.

I'm not on here to win any popularity contests or make hoards of online friends, but here to discuss the industry with other knowledgeable people who live in the real world and not dreaming about what their favourite brands should be doing. I'll base my posts on facts to the best of my ability and if folk appreciate that, that's fine with me and makes the effort spent on the post worth it. If because I disagree with obvious BS though I'm somehow being "disrespectful", then they either learn to get their act together or simply meander elsewhere in their little world!

Edited August 16, 2008 by aatbloke

[Guest aatbloke]

Very cool info.....

I've always thought that the J cars over there were pretty cool...it would have been nice to get some of that offered here....

The downside is that there is not many left.....

You wouldn't happen to have a few pics of a interior shots of the Cav with some options...the only pics that I was able to find were a few stripper models.....

I'll see what I can find - growing up I was a huge fan of the Cavalier GLS coupe! Even today it remains a looker.

[ehaase]

I'm not on here to win any popularity contests or make hoards of online friends, but here to discuss the industry with other knowledgeable people

Few of us, including me, are truly knowledgeable about the industry, but I do appreciate reading the posts of those who are knowledgeable.

[Guest aatbloke]

Few of us, including me, are truly knowledgeable about the industry, but I do appreciate reading the posts of those who are knowledgeable.

There are a number of interesting and knowledgeable people on here I reckon including yourself ... it's the BS'ers I have no time for!