W-Body to live into 2012?

[Toyota.vs.GM]

GM agreed to continue production of the Impala , (which was to have ended in 2010) through 2012 at its Oshawa plant.

:More right here.

[CSpec]

*bangs head on table*

[ToniCipriani]

[sarcasm directed at 68]Unibody B-pillars and FWD for everyone[/sarcasm directed at 68]

[Camino LS6]

[rambaran]

whatever, having spent a lot of time in a 3.5L impala, and a lot of time in a new 4 cyl camry (both rentals) i can honestly say that the w body impala is a great car. it's nothing special, but for what it is, it's excellent. and most people that i've met who've spent a lot of time in both of the above mentioned cars are always surprised that they liked the impala so much.

i don't know if a lot of people who trash w bodies do it for any other reason than they would like to see something new. it's no rear drive small block (i've got an '85 monte ss, and my bro has a '95 impala ss, both sweet cars), but it's making money for GM, it's a good car. period. and that flip and fold rear seat has saved my ass a couple of times i needed to either haul stuff or go an rent a truck or van.

Edited May 19, 2008 by rambaran

[CARBIZ]

whatever, having spent a lot of time in a 3.5L impala, and a lot of time in a new 4 cyl camry (both rentals) i can honestly say that the w body impala is a great car. it's nothing special, but for what it is, it's excellent. and most people that i've met who've spent a lot of time in both of the above mentioned cars are always surprised that they liked the impala so much.

i don't know if a lot of people who trash w bodies do it for any other reason than they would like to see something new. it's no rear drive small block (i've got an '85 monte ss, and my bro has a '95 impala ss, both sweet cars), but it's making money for GM, it's a good car. period. and that flip and fold rear seat has saved my ass a couple of times i needed to either haul stuff or go an rent a truck or van.

+1

The Impy holds its own against the competition. It is the Uplander and Cobalt that are falling behind.

[Drew Dowdell]

Isn't the Impala showing an increase in retail sales lately?Why kill it? It's not like it's hurting Chevy's image. Give it another MCE and let it keep selling I guess.

[Camino LS6]

Given all of the circumstances involved, I can see the logic behind this decision.

But ugh!, this car hanging-on into 2012 just seems absurd.

[Robert Hall]

Given all of the circumstances involved, I can see the logic behind this decision.

But ugh!, this car hanging-on into 2012 just seems absurd.

Maybe GM saw that Ford kept the Crown Vic around for over 10 years with few changes and figured they could do the same. Isn't the Impala mostly fleet anyway? Fleets don't care that it has a 4spd auto and pushrod V6. The Malibu is their main consumer midsize now..

[Camino LS6]

Maybe GM saw that Ford kept the Crown Vic around for over 10 years with few changes and figured they could do the same. Isn't the Impala mostly fleet anyway? Fleets don't care that it has a 4spd auto and pushrod V6. The Malibu is their main consumer midsize now..

Well:

-the car is still selling well, both retail and fleet

-the tooling is long ago paid for

-this pacifies the CAW

-CAFE concerns limit other options at this moment

I see this move as GM buying itself some time to adjust to new realities. The only major downside from a business standpoint is the effect this coud have on the Malibu. That and the perpetuation of a nearly antique platform in the Chevy lineup with the attendant criticism and bad PR it engenders.

The silver lining is that this helps to keep Oshawa viable and the promise of another car built on the Camaro line is a huge positive in my book.

[Drew Dowdell]

Why doesn't GM update the Impala and change the platform name at the same time?

Toyota gets away with calling the Camry "all new" even though they've really just been heavily modifying the same platform for years now. It's the same thing at Toyota except they update the version numbers.

[Bimmer325]

A substantial MCE is necessary if this thing is sticking around until 2012.

[SuperSport623]

as much as i hate the W body, since the tooling is already paid for, any sale is extra cash in the bank

[loki]

any chance a 6speed will be produced for it then?

i just told my uncle impalas were going to be around for several more years...at the notion the malibu is to small for him and my dad evidently.

[regfootball]

if this is true......a completely new interior is needed NOW and 6 speed trannies too. the other thing that is needed, the 3.6 as a mid level option.

other than that, a new grille.....the rear of the impala is nice the way it is.

[Robert Hall]

A substantial MCE is necessary if this thing is sticking around until 2012.

Yeah, but knowing GM, it probably won't have any changes between now and then (since there was a substantial MCE for '06).

[The O.C.]

Yeah, but knowing GM, it probably won't have any changes between now and then (since there was a substantial MCE for '06).

Ugh.....we'll be left with the same nasty proportions, front- and-rear overhangs, huge trunk, but confining back seat room, pushrods, 4-speeds. and a wonderful rental-queen image....I bet they'll even leave the bench seat and column shifter in it.....

[pow]

Even though the Malibu has grown, it still doesn't feel particularly roomy inside. It's narrow for its class, the beltline is high, the A-pillar is huge... the Impala feels airy in comparison, and that might explain the existence of the car??

Give it the SAIC LaX's hybrid powertrain, and you could have the ultimate traveling salesperson's fleet car... good gas mileage, roomy front seats, useless rear seats, and gigantic trunk.

[The O.C.]

Give it the SAIC LaX's hybrid powertrain, and you could have the ultimate traveling salesperson's fleet car... good gas mileage, roomy front seats, useless rear seats, and gigantic trunk.

Sounds great to me.....! <sarcasm dripping>

I guess that's why slightly-used, 2- to 3-year old Taurus' are such sought-after and valuable automobiles......

[turbo200]

Impala has years of substandard legacy going against camry, and with this move it appears this tradition will continue. they needed a break from the past, something that reinvigorated the name and brought back a focus on the core tenants of what an upscale family sedan should be. as everyone has stated in the past impala doesn't do the basic family thing very well thanks to uncommodious rear seat and proportions that lend themselves to space efficiency in all the wrong places. then it doesn't do the upscale family mobile thing very well thanks to a complete lack of desirability in design and some quality defficiencies. then it has a coarse, loud engine that doesn't move like the imports do along with a lack of a real sophisticated fuel efficient option for the masses. then there's the issue of it not being a practical choice at all because all these things add up to awful resale value. then you may or may not be able to correct a ride/handling defficiency. all of these faults go back, and stand with prior generations of impala and lumina. in short, GM has been playing at the back of the pack for a long time now.

and nothing changes...

[Robert Hall]

Ugh.....we'll be left with the same nasty proportions, front- and-rear overhangs, huge trunk, but confining back seat room, pushrods, 4-speeds. and a wonderful rental-queen image....I bet they'll even leave the bench seat and column shifter in it.....

Yes, I wouldn't expect any more.... they aren't going to want to spend any money on an obsolete platform with an obsolete engine and transmission...

[A Horse With No Name]

Isn't the Impala showing an increase in retail sales lately?Why kill it? It's not like it's hurting Chevy's image. Give it another MCE and let it keep selling I guess.

+1

Chris

[VenSeattle]

Well, there is realistic room for improvement that would keep the Impala somewhat competitive and positioned above Malibu.

Here's what I could see happening: The quality upgrades that the W-platform LaCrosse enjoys trickle over into an MCE Impala: much improved interior materials, MRC to improve ride & handling, maybe add Navigation, memory seats, standard automatic dual-zone climate control, ambient lighting, LED instrumentation, power rear window sunscreen...

Styling could also be tweaked (a lot) to help keep it fresh and more inline with Chevrolet's progressive styling.

----------------

Which plant produces the 4-sp auto used by the W-platform. Do we know anything about how long the transmission is planned for production?

[Robert Hall]

Which plant produces the 4-sp auto used by the W-platform. Do we know anything about how long the transmission is planned for production?

Isn't that the one that was announced recently as shutting down in '10 or so? Even if they shut down the plant before the W ends, they will probably stockpile a bunch.

[Paolino]

A substantial MCE is necessary if this thing is sticking around until 2012.

One would hope that in 2010 they give it a fairly decent MCE. It was new for 2006... so I would say after 3 model years, if they're going to keep it around another 3 model years, it would need an update.

[cire]

I am wondering if they will keep this version of the Impala around for fleet sales ("Impala Classic" maybe?) while they start building the next generation version on the extended LWB Epsilon II platform at another plant location for the 2010 or 2011 model year (which would either retain the "Impala" name or maybe be christened "Caprice"?). On the other hand, maybe GM believes that the fullsize sedan segment will be dormant in the future and that an affordable sedan larger than the midsize Malibu may not be needed. I can't believe they would let the Impala stay in Chevrolet's retail lineup that long without some major update. GM has lately shown a commitment to shortening the lengthy model cycles of their mainstream products; I hope that is a practice they plan to cling to in the future.

[regfootball]

this is proof that GM's decision makers have no clue at all what motivates buyers. these people should be duct tapes to chairs and be forced to sit through some honest customer bashing in the presence of your typical import loving buyers.

GM's decisions are often too much about prolonging the production life of product already with flaws. They never fix the wrongs in time and never invest in making the right decisions from the get go.

[CARBIZ]

You know, there are some people out there who actually prefer the column shift. You guys are all for CHOICES, as long as those choices agree with what YOU would choose, right? As for the noise remark, I'd put the noise level of the 3.5 LT Impala up against the Accord 4 banger any day: better hp, not much worse gas mileage (real world figures, not the Honda-designed-for-the-textbook numbers) - and all for the same price. As to the quality remark: I've never had a single customer complain about their Impala. There have been fewer recalls than the Avalon.

Look, its pretty obvious that few people on this Board would be caught dead in one. But it would seem that almost a quarter million people a year respectfully disagree. (And shove the 'fleet' comments up your arse: after 8 months, someone buys those cars, too.)

I would love to see a RWD Impala to sit next to the Malibu, but GM has a lot of fires to put out just now. If they can milk the Impala for another couple years (and make a ton of money off it), more power to them. They have a new fish to fry with the $C and what to do with Oshawa. Whatever goes into the Oshawa plant next had better be a hit, because Canada's tax structure and general blocks on business are no picnic for 'foreign' companies to work in. We will probably get a 'refresh' in '10 to drag it out another couple years. We have no problems moving every Impala we have, even with the Malibu alonside it. Some people just don't like the 'harsher' rides of the more 'modern' platforms. AND I AM ONE OF THEM.

[turbo200]

If they can milk the Impala for another couple years (and make a ton of money off it), more power to them.

sure and all the while let the brand image continue to be slammed and imports continue to shore up those buyers, while GM continues its dominance of the market share loss. No, keeping a car around as long as the last Cavalier, with the same basic platform, won't keep smart buyers from choosing these cars. that's why they have so many, as you say 250k units per year on the road, and no that number of units won't be detrimental to value after so many are left rotting on the lots. after all they don't sell with massive discounts, and decently used toyotas sell for the same amount of money as thier american counterparts.

continue to live in your dream world.

[CARBIZ]

The Cavalier had a dreadful interior and a noisy engine, at least until the '03 refresh, but even then they should have fortified the sound deadening in that car and done something about those seats! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Impala. It is reliable, economical, spacious and a clean looking design. The people who buy them could give a f$%k about what you or I think of the car and it is selling decently. Frankly, for such a 'large' vehicle, I am surprised it is doing so well, considering.

I don't live in a 'dream world,' my friend. Unlike some armchair critics, I put my money where my mouth is every day. There are a lot of deficient GM vehicles out there, but I don't view the Impala as one of them. Just because you wouldn't buy it, doesn't make it a bad car.

[turbo200]

The Cavalier had a dreadful interior and a noisy engine, at least until the '03 refresh, but even then they should have fortified the sound deadening in that car and done something about those seats! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Impala. It is reliable, economical, spacious and a clean looking design. The people who buy them could give a f$%k about what you or I think of the car and it is selling decently. Frankly, for such a 'large' vehicle, I am surprised it is doing so well, considering.

I don't live in a 'dream world,' my friend. Unlike some armchair critics, I put my money where my mouth is every day. There are a lot of deficient GM vehicles out there, but I don't view the Impala as one of them. Just because you wouldn't buy it, doesn't make it a bad car.

I don't see the reason for surprise: it is the biggest car for the price available, and is regularly sold with massive discounting. look, this isn't about one singular issue with the car, this is not about direct pit for pat comparisons with the Cavalier, this is not about who the car is selling to. this is about an appealing car that will help build chevy's brand image and keep it in the eyes of buyers across the land. this is a major regional issue, but outside of Detroit, Chicago, Ohio, the Midwest rust belt, essentially, you don't see impalas except for with rental barcodes, and the reason for this is the basic design, the basic concept is massively unappealing.

think about altima and that car conveys a sports sedan image with real quality and affordable prices. it also great economy and great reliability. the trick is it's a real good looking car with a modern design aesthetic.

camry is a revelation to me. they finally got a good looking design out. sophisticated taut lines have replaced boring and breezy. the interior is right sized and supremely comfortable, the engines are quiet, a nice ride, plus legendary toyota resalue value for investment thinkers and reliability. how can you beat that

accord is all new and dramatically larger, more comfortable. the seating is truly accomodating. engines are flexible and are legendary for fuel economy. talk to anyone and a honda will be on thier list. ultimately it will fall off because of superficial reasons like 'I don't like it.'

sonata and fusion are underdogs but both have thier strong points

then you have market division occuring because of cheaper lease rates on more expensive entry level lux sedans.

what about impala? hmmm....aged, older buyers, not really all that nice inside, from the outside it's 'what? you think i like this car?'

i am talking from the average buyer's perspective, no bias here. i want GM to succeed.

the market is literally busting at the seams with competition.

if impala were selling with a 75-90% ratio of retail and still maintaining current volumes, that would be phenomonal and give reason for all the hype about how well it sells, and you would have a stronger argument. the truth is it sells less than 150k units to retail consumers in United States, while camry sells about 15% fleets, let's give you 20% for all the conspiracy theorists and GM defenders out there. they sell a total of over 440k units each year, recently much closer to 500k units. that's around 80k units fleet. that's 360k units retail, more than double impala sales, at higher transaction prices.

impala does not sell well. it sells at massively discounted prices, dealer give-away negotiating, and financing deals. it's also the largest car that happens to be priced the lowest, lower than Camry in some instances. it's engines are larger, and as many will be quick to say, generally priced lower than the competition. it offers numerically more space than close competitors. and yet it manages to sell a fraction of the camry. i call that a loser.

I don't think a massive MCE would not be able to fix a lot of the impala's problems: good design taste can go a long way as has been proven with malibu. but malibu is also getting some core tenats within its market segment right...good fuel efficient 4 cyl option, highly sophisticated driving experience, quality ambience that looks expensive, and a solid attempt at meeting family needs. the impala's basic defficiency in my eyes is not being able to have comfortable seating that doesn't neglect rear seat comfort for the sake of dimmensions. if you can't comfortably fit a family in this car, what the hell's the point of it being a large 'family sedan'. the taurus can do this so well, and so do accord and camry. they are damned comfortable. that's a huge part of what counts for these cars. finally, with the outdated proportions it will never look as modern or sporty as say the upcoming updated Taurus for one.

I don't think an MCE will materialize anway.

Edited May 19, 2008 by turbo200

[Blake Noble]

The old horse just refuses to die.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I'm holding onto mine for as long as possible...

Edited May 20, 2008 by vonVeezelsnider

[enzl]

I don't see the reason for surprise: it is the biggest car for the price available, and is regularly sold with massive discounting. look, this isn't about one singular issue with the car, this is not about direct pit for pat comparisons with the Cavalier, this is not about who the car is selling to. this is about an appealing car that will help build chevy's brand image and keep it in the eyes of buyers across the land. this is a major regional issue, but outside of Detroit, Chicago, Ohio, the Midwest rust belt, essentially, you don't see impalas except for with rental barcodes, and the reason for this is the basic design, the basic concept is massively unappealing.

think about altima and that car conveys a sports sedan image with real quality and affordable prices. it also great economy and great reliability. the trick is it's a real good looking car with a modern design aesthetic.

camry is a revelation to me. they finally got a good looking design out. sophisticated taut lines have replaced boring and breezy. the interior is right sized and supremely comfortable, the engines are quiet, a nice ride, plus legendary toyota resalue value for investment thinkers and reliability. how can you beat that

accord is all new and dramatically larger, more comfortable. the seating is truly accomodating. engines are flexible and are legendary for fuel economy. talk to anyone and a honda will be on thier list. ultimately it will fall off because of superficial reasons like 'I don't like it.'

sonata and fusion are underdogs but both have thier strong points

then you have market division occuring because of cheaper lease rates on more expensive entry level lux sedans.

what about impala? hmmm....aged, older buyers, not really all that nice inside, from the outside it's 'what? you think i like this car?'

i am talking from the average buyer's perspective, no bias here. i want GM to succeed.

the market is literally busting at the seams with competition.

if impala were selling with a 75-90% ratio of retail and still maintaining current volumes, that would be phenomonal and give reason for all the hype about how well it sells, and you would have a stronger argument. the truth is it sells less than 150k units to retail consumers in United States, while camry sells about 15% fleets, let's give you 20% for all the conspiracy theorists and GM defenders out there. they sell a total of over 440k units each year, recently much closer to 500k units. that's around 80k units fleet. that's 360k units retail, more than double impala sales, at higher transaction prices.

impala does not sell well. it sells at massively discounted prices, dealer give-away negotiating, and financing deals. it's also the largest car that happens to be priced the lowest, lower than Camry in some instances. it's engines are larger, and as many will be quick to say, generally priced lower than the competition. it offers numerically more space than close competitors. and yet it manages to sell a fraction of the camry. i call that a loser.

I don't think a massive MCE would not be able to fix a lot of the impala's problems: good design taste can go a long way as has been proven with malibu. but malibu is also getting some core tenats within its market segment right...good fuel efficient 4 cyl option, highly sophisticated driving experience, quality ambience that looks expensive, and a solid attempt at meeting family needs. the impala's basic defficiency in my eyes is not being able to have comfortable seating that doesn't neglect rear seat comfort for the sake of dimmensions. if you can't comfortably fit a family in this car, what the hell's the point of it being a large 'family sedan'. the taurus can do this so well, and so do accord and camry. they are damned comfortable. that's a huge part of what counts for these cars. finally, with the outdated proportions it will never look as modern or sporty as say the upcoming updated Taurus for one.

I don't think an MCE will materialize anway.

The man is right.

The Impala is fine...but imagine how good it could be with a more modern powertrain, better proportions and enhanced fuel efficiency. What confuses me with the W-body defenders is that although sales are good, does GM really need to wait until it isn't selling to make changes for the better? Isn't that what's gotten them to their current predicament?

Why not take current Impala attributes and enhance them? There's so many GM products suffering NOW from the 'let's hold off on updates' or 'let's make due with compromised product'. Wouldn't it be great to have GREAT product---without apologies or excuses?

The knee-jerk reaction of Impala + Volume = Success is not logically consistent to those that crush Camry buyers as sheeple---it just exhibits the frustrating lack of intellectual honesty that drives me crazy.

GM needs more G8's, vettes & CTS's...less rehashes, me-too's & aging platforms. It's actually that simple. When I see GM throwing $1 billion at American Axle ($800 million in lost profit, $218 million in payoffs to Union cast-offs), I see the financing for an entire platform being thrown out the window---and that's why I can't stand the current management---there are literally dozens of New Products that have been squandered by these morons---and more yet to (not) come as Delphi is about to hit GM up for a multi-billion $ payoff in the next year or so.

When I see a W-bodied Impy in my 2012 showroom, it'll make me ill. I just know it.

[gm4life]

A substantial MCE is necessary if this thing is sticking around until 2012.

^ I totally agree... But uh the Chevrolet should have no problem riding into 2010 after that I don't know. But a MCE would be a very good idea. It really does what it should a low price and large size family sedan for not much money. Listen I own my Impala not nearly as fun to drive as my Bonneville nor in the same customer demographic but at least it doesn't have a constantly failing intermediate steering shaft with the creaking noise! (Uhhh my only complaint.) But without a doubt I will keep mine and drive it to the grave. My son drives it now has a slight love-mark up front from a snow-bank (not real bad) but she keeps on going and gets decent fuel economy something that can't be said for the SLE nor Torrent. My brother got an Impala LTZ over a Malibu and they just love it, and I liked the 'Bu more two class leading no doubt but there not in the same class Impala is for traditionally ol' school GM buyers, the Malibu is for more progressive buyers aka import owners. I see no problem with two cars being out. Give the Malibu Flex Fuel and give the Impala a 3.6L as well.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Okay, so what happened?

1) GM simply caved to the employees... After all, they are basically a big charity for everyone else, so why not?

2) GM is sand bagging until they have a RWD replacement. Wishful thinking, I know, but doesn't Alpha come on line about 2012?

3) GM cancelled the Zeta Impala and has no backup plan. Not likely given what we know.

4) GM believes that people will abandon full size cars. A stupid mindset given that the company which provides an economical full size will end up owning the market. No reason to 'just quit'.

I guess they will start making the Malibu the flagship Chevy sedan now... Or maybe the Ep II Impala simply wont be called Impala now, yet will still be produced and overlap with this increasingly fleet only model.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing the Ep II car called something else. Then we could revive the Impala name with a worthy RWD replacement on down the road. (Wishful thinking, I know)

[gmcbob]

I don't see the reason for surprise: it is the biggest car for the price available, and is regularly sold with massive discounting. look, this isn't about one singular issue with the car, this is not about direct pit for pat comparisons with the Cavalier, this is not about who the car is selling to. this is about an appealing car that will help build chevy's brand image and keep it in the eyes of buyers across the land. this is a major regional issue, but outside of Detroit, Chicago, Ohio, the Midwest rust belt, essentially, you don't see impalas except for with rental barcodes, and the reason for this is the basic design, the basic concept is massively unappealing.

think about altima and that car conveys a sports sedan image with real quality and affordable prices. it also great economy and great reliability. the trick is it's a real good looking car with a modern design aesthetic.

camry is a revelation to me. they finally got a good looking design out. sophisticated taut lines have replaced boring and breezy. the interior is right sized and supremely comfortable, the engines are quiet, a nice ride, plus legendary toyota resalue value for investment thinkers and reliability. how can you beat that

accord is all new and dramatically larger, more comfortable. the seating is truly accomodating. engines are flexible and are legendary for fuel economy. talk to anyone and a honda will be on thier list. ultimately it will fall off because of superficial reasons like 'I don't like it.'

sonata and fusion are underdogs but both have thier strong points

then you have market division occuring because of cheaper lease rates on more expensive entry level lux sedans.

what about impala? hmmm....aged, older buyers, not really all that nice inside, from the outside it's 'what? you think i like this car?'

i am talking from the average buyer's perspective, no bias here. i want GM to succeed.

the market is literally busting at the seams with competition.

if impala were selling with a 75-90% ratio of retail and still maintaining current volumes, that would be phenomonal and give reason for all the hype about how well it sells, and you would have a stronger argument. the truth is it sells less than 150k units to retail consumers in United States, while camry sells about 15% fleets, let's give you 20% for all the conspiracy theorists and GM defenders out there. they sell a total of over 440k units each year, recently much closer to 500k units. that's around 80k units fleet. that's 360k units retail, more than double impala sales, at higher transaction prices.

impala does not sell well. it sells at massively discounted prices, dealer give-away negotiating, and financing deals. it's also the largest car that happens to be priced the lowest, lower than Camry in some instances. it's engines are larger, and as many will be quick to say, generally priced lower than the competition. it offers numerically more space than close competitors. and yet it manages to sell a fraction of the camry. i call that a loser.

I don't think a massive MCE would not be able to fix a lot of the impala's problems: good design taste can go a long way as has been proven with malibu. but malibu is also getting some core tenats within its market segment right...good fuel efficient 4 cyl option, highly sophisticated driving experience, quality ambience that looks expensive, and a solid attempt at meeting family needs. the impala's basic defficiency in my eyes is not being able to have comfortable seating that doesn't neglect rear seat comfort for the sake of dimmensions. if you can't comfortably fit a family in this car, what the hell's the point of it being a large 'family sedan'. the taurus can do this so well, and so do accord and camry. they are damned comfortable. that's a huge part of what counts for these cars. finally, with the outdated proportions it will never look as modern or sporty as say the upcoming updated Taurus for one.

I don't think an MCE will materialize anway.

I agree man, well said. The Impala is not as good as the new Accord and Camry when it comes right down to it. The Camry and Accord look more modern and offer better drive trains - there's no way around arguing this fact. But I think this is why GM made the current Malibu the way it is - it competes well with the Camry and Accord. The problem with the Malibu is perception and the fact that Camry and Accord has had years to build traction and image. It's going to be very tough for Chevy to get their mojo back with this model alone unfortunately.

I've said it many times on this board how here in Houston, I don't see nearly as many new GM cars as I do Toyota, Honda and Nissan cars. (I see TONS of GM SUV's and trucks though). However, for whatever reason, I see a lot of late model Impalas - and I actually see a lot of late model Impalas without the bar codes on them - so those are either company cars or retail - obviously it's tough to tell.

I dunno - I actually think the Impala is kind of a nice looking car, but I can totally understand why an average Joe Consumer would choose a Toyota or Honda over it (even those who aren't just blindly going there because they think they're better because of neighbors or Consumer Reports).

I sometimes wonder if GM actually realizes just how insane and good the competition is these days??? They need to stand on a typical street corner outside the Midwest for a few days and really pay attention to what consumers are driving here in the South and out West. They'd poop their drawers. Unfortunately for them, it's not 1968 anymore.

[daves87rs]

*bangs head on table*

+1

That just screams Ford....guess they didn't learn...

I got the chnace to compare the Impy and the new Bu' side by side, inside and out.

Compared to the Bu-it looks pretty sad.

Granted I like the current Impy, but it is so outdated......

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be another Cavalier?

[Blake Noble]

The longer the W-Body Impala is around, the more that this classic nameplate will stagnate and rapidly lose whatever prestige it has clung to.

GM would be wise not to totally desecrate the Impala name with outdated squaller (W-Body architecture).

Edited May 20, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Sixty8panther]

Wow.... just, dear lord. That's more pathetic than Ford still selling the Ranger.

[Drew Dowdell]

There is a lot of assuming going on in this thread.

Why the assumption that there would be no refresh on the Impala?

Why the assumption that the retail buyers don't like the car? They picked one over the Malibu so it MUST have some qualities that people like.

Why the assumption that a newer transmission would increase sales? There is a car sitting right next to it in the showroom with a newer transmission and people are still buying Impalas retail.

As far as biggest car for the money, that title belongs to the Grand Marquis, Taurus/Sable, and Dodge Charger before the Impala would qualify.

[The O.C.]

You know, there are some people out there who actually prefer the column shift.

Some people just don't like the 'harsher' rides of the more 'modern' platforms. AND I AM ONE OF THEM.

On the column shift....you may be right....but gee, GM is the only remaining survivor that believes in that configuration.......(Don't bring up the Fox platform mates....they've been around since the age of dawn.) Plus, it could be argued that one of the main reasons anyone would buy an Impala like that is.....simply....it's what the dealer had in inventory?

How "harsh" is the ride in the excellent new Malibu? It's not. What makes you think that having a "modern" platform that doesn't float or wallow, and has appropriate shock, spring, and damping rates all of a sudden dictates a "harsh" ride? It doesn't....

[The O.C.]

finally, with the outdated proportions it will never look as modern or sporty as say the upcoming updated Taurus for one.

I don't think an MCE will materialize anway.

I think this is a great point that I totally forgot about......the upcoming new Taurus.

I know we've all only seen a picture, and other details are scarce.....but damn from just that picture I saw, it's going to look like quite a nice vehicle. And Chevy will soldier on into 2012 (apparently, supposedly) with the same ole' Impala.....

Funny because, although I'm not overly excited about it either, the current D-platform Taurus is a FAR superior car to today's Impala in terms of interior proportions, interior design, fit, and finish, seating comfort, and even though I find the styling bland, it at least has decent proportions.....plus it finally has a great powertrain that simply trumps the Impala so easily, it's not even funny.....

[The O.C.]

Wow.... just, dear lord. That's more pathetic than Ford still selling the Ranger.

Yeah.....but Ranger is just a drop-in-the-bucket in Ford's overall product portfolio.

We're talking about Chevrolet's supposedly "flagship" (more- or-less) sedan......

[Robert Hall]

There is a lot of assuming going on in this thread.

Why the assumption that there would be no refresh on the Impala?

Because it took them 6 years for the last refresh ('00-05, refreshed in '06).

Why the assumption that the retail buyers don't like the car? They picked one over the Malibu so it MUST have some qualities that people like.

There are some people that will buy anything if it's cheap enough..it's the Wal-Mart syndrome...the Impala is largish, cheap package.

Why the assumption that a newer transmission would increase sales? There is a car sitting right next to it in the showroom with a newer transmission and people are still buying Impalas retail.

See above...there are consumers that are oblivious to the niceities of a more modern package and only care if it's cheap.... GM shouldn't pander to such buyers, it only reinforces the stereotype of GM offering mediocre products that only sell on price.

Edited May 20, 2008 by moltar

[VenSeattle]

The drama queens in this topic are those who love to accuse many on C&G for being irrational. Beautiful.

Any of you remember this topic?

Detroit Hamtramck, Mich.

*Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS continue until 2010

*Global Delta MPV7 beginning in 2009

*Global Delta Volt beginning in 2010

*Global Epsilon Chevrolet beginning in 2012

Fairfax, KS

*Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura continue until 2011

*Global Epsilon Buick and Saturn beginning in 2009

*Chevrolet large 4-door notchback beginning in 2010

GM has already stated they've been working on both a FWD and RWD Impala replacement, but didn't decide until recently which one to go with. The FWD version won.

I've been convinced for a while that the Fairfax Large Chevy Epsilon in 2010 will be the real Impala replacement that GM has been considering instead of Zeta and the Malibu will be remodeled in 2012. GM can't use the Impala name outside of Oshawa so we know it'll be called something different.

By 2010, there should be a new large Chevrolet sedan along with a Volt to share the showroom as Chevrolet flagship cars. So, the dealers shouldn't be starved for product even if GM keeps the current Impala soldiering on like a fleet-loved Panther.

[turbo200]

There are some people that will buy anything if it's cheap enough..it's the Wal-Mart syndrome...the Impala is largish, cheap package.

perfectly stated. i know many people will loathe me for saying this, but just go on edmunds.com and search through the forums there. you will see the impala threads mostly inactive. it's because people who are buying impala are not necessarily always the progressives, the ones doing the research, striving to make the most informed decisions. this is where the market has been heading, and more and more those buyers have obviously turned away in droves from GM cars. now i'm not saying it's not an informed decision for some to buy the impala, whether you like it for a potent V6 at an inexpensive price, combined with a large package, and as others have stated a simply classy look. but, it's obvious the competition has not stagnated and once again when GM sought to renew the impala, they shot for midpack and underestimated yet again where the competition would go with thier own redesigns. which is, honda and toyota did something new and incredilbe for them, they injected real character and luxury into the design of these cars; they've made them even more aspirational, and on top of that really improved on the functional aspects of already highly functional cars. there are bound to be unreasonable people as long as ignorance still exists, but on edmunds there are a fair share of reasonable people discussing the merits of all cars in the market, and mostly impala is ignored. more and more, the world has turned to this type of existence, where the internet and communication matters, look at yourselves.

[turbo200]

The drama queens in this topic are those who love to accuse many on C&G for being irrational. Beautiful.

Any of you remember this topic?

GM has already stated they've been working on both a FWD and RWD Impala replacement, but didn't decide until recently which one to go with. The FWD version won.

I've been convinced for a while that the Fairfax Large Chevy Epsilon in 2010 will be the real Impala replacement that GM has been considering instead of Zeta and the Malibu will be remodeled in 2012. GM can't use the Impala name outside of Oshawa so we know it'll be called something different.

By 2010, there should be a new large Chevrolet sedan along with a Volt to share the showroom as Chevrolet flagship cars. So, the dealers shouldn't be starved for product even if GM keeps the current Impala soldiering on like a fleet-loved Panther.

this may make sense, but I just don't see GM abandoning there old ways and thinking this new design, which I believe could be revolutionary if done right, will capture the buyers of the current Impala traditional design. Malibu is obviously going to get bigger with the next design, and they may find they don't need to have something bigger beyond it, like honda has with the accord, which is really imo as large as a family sedan should get, the next step up should be luxury limos like the S-class [whether Buick and Chevy wanted to have something to fit that mold for obviously cheaper pricing is yet another question].

the crossover movement, we're not even in the middle of it yet. designers are getting smarter and recognizing that it is still great design that works, especially with limitless crossover shapes. that is the amazing thing, we have yet to see where the hatchback look can fully take us, there's still plenty left to show, and as the picture below shows, we haven't seen the best here in America yet, and it can get real good.

certainly with Volt, Malibu, Cobalt, Aveo, GM will have plenty more traditional shaped sedans. what will obviously matter most with this notchback shape will be obvious, positioning, quality, design. they can make another mistake like maxx and be off on all those bases, or they can get it right and really create a revolution of sorts. people are looking for utility, and those leaving crossovers and SUVs will not want to simply return to an unflexible cargo hold of a sedan.

the poster toyota.vs.gm did say recently impala would be like never before.

[VenSeattle]

this may make sense, but I just don't see GM abandoning there old ways and thinking this new design, which I believe could be revolutionary if done right, will capture the buyers of the current Impala traditional design.

From the sound of your reply to Moltar, the current Impala buyers shouldn't matter to GM since it’s such an uninspiring vehicle.

And regardless if you think GM will break away from its old ways or not, GM has confirmed in the UAW agreement two new Chevrolet sedans for production within the next 4 years. Why anyone would think a CAW agreement would/could/should alter GM's UAW agreement or trump it is beyond me. One union agreement will not replace the other. That's guaranteed.

If anything, GM is definitely up to its old ways and will roll out a new large sedan on Epsilon II while selling the w-Impala for fleet (Impala or Impala Classic...). I don't see why that's so hard for most of you to see if you're actually being rational. For the most part, I see a bunch of people jumping off the deep end to berate GM for keeping the w-platform around two extra years.

[ZL-1]

I've been convinced for a while that the Fairfax Large Chevy Epsilon in 2010 will be the real Impala replacement that GM has been considering instead of Zeta and the Malibu will be remodeled in 2012. GM can't use the Impala name outside of Oshawa so we know it'll be called something different.

By 2010, there should be a new large Chevrolet sedan along with a Volt to share the showroom as Chevrolet flagship cars. So, the dealers shouldn't be starved for product even if GM keeps the current Impala soldiering on like a fleet-loved Panther.

IIRC people have posted that there's a chance of the Malibu becoming Chevrolet's large 4-door notchback beginning in 2010, with the Global Epsilon Chevrolet beginning in 2012 being the Epica's replacement. LWB and SWB variants of EpII.