GM slashes North American truck production

[haypops]

A Chevy Blazer from that era was the worst example of a vehicle I've ever owned. I can't tell you how poor the quality was, or how many problems I had with it. It was a true disgrace.

It was GM at it's WORST......

My son inlaw's brother had lots of problems with his Blazer, too. My "96 Sonoma has had one alternator replacement, but the paint, tires, everything else is original.

[CARBIZ]

It's funny that Buzz Hargrove, the leader of the CAW, is now screaming to the Ontario and Canadian government to prop up the auto industry. I guess he just doesn't get it. We've known for more than a year now that tough times are coming for large trucks and SUVs. Although Buzz was quite happy that Oshawa pumped out 500k Silverados and Impalas in the good times, he is screaming mad now that GM is laying people off. Ontario is still a larger producer of vehicles than any other State or Province in North America. Ford is hiring more people up here.

He is trying to whip up hysteria against the Koreans, mostly. It is true that they build nothing in Canada, yet import nearly 250k vehicles a year. Still, he is beating a dead horse. All manufacturing in Ontario is in a slump. Something like 90k jobs have disappeared in the past couple years, mostly manufacturing.

I am curious to know what (if anything) GM plans to put in the Oshawa plant. Surely, the Camaro can't keep it going. We still have 'free' healthcare, but our dollar at par with the U.S. is hurting.

[balthazar]

...One ton tacomas...

Did you mean '1/8th-ton tacomas' ??

[Blake Noble]

A Chevy Blazer from that era was the worst example of a vehicle I've ever owned. I can't tell you how poor the quality was, or how many problems I had with it. It was a true disgrace.

It was GM at it's WORST......

I agree with you that quality lacks in many places with the GMT-325/330/335 vehicles, I will not deny that for a second. But do not get reliability confused with quality. These vehicles are reliable as anything you could ask for, especially the GMT-325 trucks. At least that has been what I have experienced with the three separate examples that have been in my or my family's possession.

We also used to have a 1997 Jimmy, quite a few moons ago. Again, it was much of the same that you encounter with their truck counterparts: it would creak, squeak, and moan like a broken-down three-dollar hooker (actually, come to think of it, the rattles and quakes were worse in the GMT-330s than in the GMT-325s) and various trim pieces were cheap and inexcusable, but the only thing that really went wrong with it, and actually refused to stay fixed, had been the water pump, of which it went through three different ones. But it never left us stranded on the side of the road and it was a willing and capable vehicle in the winter.

Anyhow, I had a thought: The soon-to-be-abundant 2.0L Ecotec Turbo might be an interesting engine to have in a compact truck, and not in an SS/Denali version, either.

Edited May 1, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[A Horse With No Name]

I like the way your thinking those Turbo thoughts....

Would make an interesting truck.

Chris

[The O.C.]

I agree with you that quality lacks in many places with the GMT-325/330/335 vehicles, I will not deny that for a second. But do not get reliability confused with quality. These vehicles are reliable as anything you could ask for, especially the GMT-325 trucks.

Uh ....I'm talking reliability. Mine was a reliability nightmare from day one. I couldn't even begin to go into all the problems, minor and major, that I had with that truck. I only kept it a year and sold it at a loss.....

[daves87rs]

Uh ....I'm talking reliability. Mine was a reliability nightmare from day one. I couldn't even begin to go into all the problems, minor and major, that I had with that truck. I only kept it a year and sold it at a loss.....

It's funny you say that...the only Blazers I've seen lately are the 00+ 2 doors....

[longtooth]

GM is continuing to evolve. The Chinese financial overlords will continue to underwrite the cost of GM's North American turn-around until the 'ship of state' rights itself. The rules for the next ten years are being written. GM has a slew of venerated brands. The Chinese have deep pockets. Very deep. Symbiosis. Pure. Simple. This is in my opinion what we're witnessing now.

[CARBIZ]

Interesting though that it is OUR money that these new Chinese masters are using.

[enzl]

Interesting though that it is OUR money that these new Chinese masters are using.

Actually, aren't we borrowing theirs?

..and then turning around and buying their stuff with it?

[haypops]

Actually, aren't we borrowing theirs?

..and then turning around and buying their stuff with it?

True, although there are too frequent cases of their selling us adulterated crap. Our falut for not having testing procedures in place.

[longtooth]

Symbiotic. :AH-HA_wink:

[Oracle of Delphi]

True, although there are too frequent cases of their selling us adulterated crap. Our falut for not having testing procedures in place.

Well as long as you don't lick it, eat it, or feed it to your pets, you should be OK! :AH-HA_wink:

[Lamar]

Well as long as you don't lick it, eat it, or feed it to your pets, you should be OK! :AH-HA_wink:

I dunno about driving it either...

[longtooth]

I dunno about driving it either...

IMO. There's nothing sadder looking than a two and a half year-old KIA, still three years and some months away from being paid-off, missing at least one hubcap, dented and needing a bath. The person who purchased this tragedy on wheels, and the millions like them are the target demographic for the coming flood of cheap, disposable cars. There'll still be an upscale market. Just not as large as what we've been accustomed to here. America's in retrograde. We not the 'little engine who could' any longer.

[CARBIZ]

Well as long as you don't lick it, eat it, or feed it to your pets, you should be OK! :AH-HA_wink:

Chinese made products I have replaced in the past couple years:

Blender my mother gave to me in 1979 original purchase date unknown died in 2002 when idiot roommate put blade assembly in dishwasher

'Betty Crocker' model purchased in 2003, made in China died 2 years later when 'safety' switch fouled up. Untimely demise down 26 floors.

Cassette clock radio bought in 1990 on illicit trip to Buffalo still working, I threw it out in 2005

replaced with RCA Cd/clock radio' made in China Xmas '05 died about 6 months ago when Cd would not switch off. Untimely demise down 11 floors.

Eureka vacuum parents got as wedding present in 1960 died in 1991 (it made a great push toy when I was a kid)

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 1991 died in 2002

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 2002 died in 2004

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 2004 (no I am not a glutton for punishment, Sears gave me a new one for 1/2 price)

machine is already eating its own power cord and I've snapped the release handle on one a wand

So, I can save $50 on a blender I have no choice but to buy Chinese because they are all made in China. All of them. Believe me, I looked. I may pay cash, but it would seem my fellow Canadians do not. Our trade deficit with China has soared from $3.9b in 1997 to $27b in 2006. Put that in persective, my fellow North Americans: Canada's economy is 1/10 the size of the Excited States!

Not a bad deal, eh? We export our jobs and they mortgage our homes.

[longtooth]

Chinese made products I have replaced in the past couple years:

Blender my mother gave to me in 1979 original purchase date unknown died in 2002 when idiot roommate put blade assembly in dishwasher

'Betty Crocker' model purchased in 2003, made in China died 2 years later when 'safety' switch fouled up. Untimely demise down 26 floors.

Cassette clock radio bought in 1990 on illicit trip to Buffalo still working, I threw it out in 2005

replaced with RCA Cd/clock radio' made in China Xmas '05 died about 6 months ago when Cd would not switch off. Untimely demise down 11 floors.

Eureka vacuum parents got as wedding present in 1960 died in 1991 (it made a great push toy when I was a kid)

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 1991 died in 2002

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 2002 died in 2004

replaced with Kenmore canister vacuum 2004 (no I am not a glutton for punishment, Sears gave me a new one for 1/2 price)

machine is already eating its own power cord and I've snapped the release handle on one a wand

So, I can save $50 on a blender I have no choice but to buy Chinese because they are all made in China. All of them. Believe me, I looked. I may pay cash, but it would seem my fellow Canadians do not. Our trade deficit with China has soared from $3.9b in 1997 to $27b in 2006. Put that in persective, my fellow North Americans: Canada's economy is 1/10 the size of the Excited States!

Not a bad deal, eh? We export our jobs and they mortgage our homes.

The Cause? Are we that shortsighted collectively?

[haypops]

Not a bad deal, eh? We export our jobs and they mortgage our homes.

The pedulum swings two ways. The subprime mortgage thingy has caught many European investors with big looses. Perhaps the Chineese too? The chineese do hold a lot of investments in U.S. dollars and these have been heavily devalued. By the way Caterpllar is doing big business there and will be opeing up factories there.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

So, I can save $50 on a blender I have no choice but to buy Chinese because they are all made in China.

You do have a choice , its made by Whirlpool , and its called Kitchenaid, Kitchenaid blenders are made in the U.S and France .

[hyperv6]

I must have been lucky as my 97 Sonoma is tight and solid in the interior. The inside I could complain little about it.

The biggest beef with the 97 Sonoma is the door hinges. The raqin water drains right on on top of them and I have to oil them a little more often, other than that only the brake pad wear was poor till I put EBC pads on. Now they are great. The rear shoes are still good at near 90,000 miles.

If GM would sell a truck just as I have now with updated V6 I would buy it in a second. The only beef with the engine right now is the power. I wish it was more near 250 HP.

[CARBIZ]

The Cause? Are we that shortsighted collectively?

Partly because we are selfish; partly because we are convinced by 'experts' that offshoring our jobs, decimating our manufacturing base and selling out our technology is good for us. The chickens will come home to roost. We are being played like a harp. None of the companies setting up over there are allowed to be completely autonomous. Amost all of them involve some form of exchange of technologies. It is a pretty good gig: we teach them how to build things, then they export them back to us at half price. The Japanese already did it. What's the saying: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?

I understand the theory: world trade is supposed to bring benefits to all and raise them to our standard of living which will in turn raise their labor costs and we will all live in peace and harmony. Except that I don't see that happening. Has it worked for Mexico? Our companies set up there 15, 20 years ago, yet they are still pouring across your borders because their labor pool is growing faster than the economy can absorb them. Now magnify that on a scale about 10 times larger and that is the challenge that is China. Perhaps the Communists will have better luck with more 'central' planning but I doubt it. Mexico is a mess. We think we can acheive better in China?

I'm not saying we had any other choices. One of the bad things about free enterprise is that someone, the Germans, the Dutch, the British, would have jumped on the bandwagon, so we all can go down together. One of the things that has changed in the world over the past 50 years is that our adversaries have learned to play our own individual nationalisms against each other. Look at the mess that is the U.N.

It has almost worked for Japan. Their economy became so successful that they are drowning in their own seniors, but China is so much more fantastically large than Japan. Just wait until they decide there is more room across the border into Siberia!

[CARBIZ]

You do have a choice , its made by Whirlpool , and its called Kitchenaid, Kitchenaid blenders are made in the U.S and France .

I considered that, but the Kitchenaide food processors sold around here are $250 and do everything but the dishes. I only wanted a lowly blender, not a kitchen robot!

[longtooth]

Partly because we are selfish; partly because we are convinced by 'experts' that offshoring our jobs, decimating our manufacturing base and selling out our technology is good for us. The chickens will come home to roost. We are being played like a harp. None of the companies setting up over there are allowed to be completely autonomous. Amost all of them involve some form of exchange of technologies. It is a pretty good gig: we teach them how to build things, then they export them back to us at half price. The Japanese already did it. What's the saying: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?

I understand the theory: world trade is supposed to bring benefits to all and raise them to our standard of living which will in turn raise their labor costs and we will all live in peace and harmony. Except that I don't see that happening. Has it worked for Mexico? Our companies set up there 15, 20 years ago, yet they are still pouring across your borders because their labor pool is growing faster than the economy can absorb them. Now magnify that on a scale about 10 times larger and that is the challenge that is China. Perhaps the Communists will have better luck with more 'central' planning but I doubt it. Mexico is a mess. We think we can acheive better in China?

I'm not saying we had any other choices. One of the bad things about free enterprise is that someone, the Germans, the Dutch, the British, would have jumped on the bandwagon, so we all can go down together. One of the things that has changed in the world over the past 50 years is that our adversaries have learned to play our own individual nationalisms against each other. Look at the mess that is the U.N.

It has almost worked for Japan. Their economy became so successful that they are drowning in their own seniors, but China is so much more fantastically large than Japan. Just wait until they decide there is more room across the border into Siberia!

I hear you. I wish I had the eloquence to rebut the 'One World-ers' who think this is all just fine. Too much, much too fast. Makes me glad I'm old.

[SuperSport623]

I considered that, but the Kitchenaide food processors sold around here are $250 and do everything but the dishes. I only wanted a lowly blender, not a kitchen robot!

Yeah but included with that $250 is a "Pleasure Mode"... just remember not to leave it in ice crush mode! :AH-HA_wink:

[Toyota.vs.GM]

I considered that, but the Kitchenaide food processors sold around here are $250 and do everything but the dishes. I only wanted a lowly blender, not a kitchen robot!

Thats what it is a lowly blender. Just look, not a food processor

Edited May 5, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[SuperSport623]

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[Toyota.vs.GM]

404 page not found

Page now found :AH-HA_wink: .

[CARBIZ]

Thats what it is a lowly blender. Just look, not a food processor

Hmmph, never saw that one in my travels. Well, I have another $40 made in China POS. Let's see how long this one lasts.

[A Horse With No Name]

I considered that, but the Kitchenaide food processors sold around here are $250 and do everything but the dishes. I only wanted a lowly blender, not a kitchen robot!

If it is American made, I may ahve to buy one for the Mrs.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

It's past time that we all start buying things that don't suck instead of buying the cheapest we can find.

Nothing ticks me off like products that don't perform as they should - no matter where they are made.

[A Horse With No Name]

Amen to that, brother. Now if we can just convince everyone else in America...

Chris

[Blake Noble]

Uh ....I'm talking reliability. Mine was a reliability nightmare from day one. I couldn't even begin to go into all the problems, minor and major, that I had with that truck. I only kept it a year and sold it at a loss.....

I won't argue for a second that you had a negative experience with your Blazer and that it wasn't up to standard in both quality and reliability. I mean, that does happen, no matter the vehicle.

And you are the one who owned it. I didn't. End of story.

But just because your Blazer was a poor example does not mean that there were not good examples built as well.

On a slightly different note, I have always considered reliability and quality two separate things. Reliability being the measure of the trustworthiness of a product, and quality being a measure of the workmanship of a product. They do go hand in hand, no question. But sometimes, for example, you will see a car with horrible quality turning out to be quite reliable as well. (Ex.: Some British Leyland products.)

Edited May 6, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[CARBIZ]

I won't argue for a second that you had a negative experience with your Blazer and that it wasn't up to standard in both quality and reliability. I mean, that does happen, no matter the vehicle.

And you are the one who owned it. I didn't. End of story.

But just because your Blazer was a poor example does not mean that there were good examples built as well.

On a slightly different note, I have always considered reliability and quality two separate things. Reliability being the measure of the trustworthiness of a product, and quality being a measure of the workmanship of a product. They do go hand in hand, no question. But sometimes, for example, you will see a car with horrible quality turning out to be quite reliable as well. (Ex.: Some British Leyland products.)

That has been GM's Achilles Heel for years. For example, the Cavalier: cheap and relatively ugly, but a fairly bullet proof car. However, since the perception is of cheapness, many people would have dismissed the car out of hand. Look at the difference of Mopar products of 10 years ago, they were the exact opposite. They looked great, the plastic bits and fit/finish were decent, but the cars were poorly built.

I found the Blazer/Jimmy's created owners who either loved them or hated them - very few people were in between. I had a '98 Blazer. Loved it. Towed my boat all over hell's half acre. Never a problem. Expensive brakes, though. They were not the most glamorous. It could easily be argued that the Grand Cherokee outclassed them on many levels, but after the '98 make over, they did get a lot nicer. Except the last year, '05. I don't know what was happening at the plant, but our last few dozen were crude, clunky and horrible. I guess the workers were pissed the plant was closing.