GM slashes North American truck production

[Oracle of Delphi]

Dave Guilford

Automotive News

April 28, 2008 - 4:36 pm ET

DETROIT -- General Motors today moved to cut full-size truck production in North America by 138,000 units for the remainder of the year.

GM will take out about 88,000 units of full-size pickup production and 50,000 units of full-size SUV production, the automaker said in a press release.

GM said that it is eliminating one shift of production at its full-size pickup truck assembly plants in Pontiac, Mich.; Flint, Mich.; and Oshawa, Ontario; and its full-size SUV assembly plant in Janesville, Wis.

The Pontiac and Flint pickup plants already are idled because of a parts shortage stemming from the UAW's strike at American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings Inc. The Janesville SUV plant is currently running one shift because of that strike. The Oshawa pickup truck plant has reopened temporarily with limited production.

The decisions were made to bring production capacity more in line with market demand, GM said in a press release.

Shift reductions will be effective on the following dates:

• Flint Assembly (Heavy Duty Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra) -- July 14

•Janesville (Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban, GMC Yukon, Yukon XL) -- July 14

• Pontiac Assembly (Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra) -- July 14

• Oshawa Truck (Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra) -- Sept. 8

" With rising fuel prices, a softening economy, and a downward trend on current and future market demand for full-size trucks, a significant adjustment was needed to align our production with market realities," said Troy Clarke, president of GM North America.

Clarke said that with the market shifting toward cars and crossovers, GM is seeing strong sales of the new Chevrolet Malibu, Cadillac CTS, Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G6, Chevrolet Impala, Buick Enclave and GMC Acadia.

Clarke added that the company is continuing to explore options to increase car and crossover production.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...p;rssfeed=RSS31

[Camino LS6]

No surprises here, the current environment is what it is.

[siegen]

Does GM have anything else they can build in there factories?

[SuperSport623]

crystal meth.... its pretty profitable too!

[Northstar]

Does GM have anything else they can build in there factories?

I don't see what they would build... unless they need another plant for the Malibu. Most plants are under capacity as it is, anyways.

[Camino LS6]

Not feasible.

The market will have changed significantly by the time the lines could be changed over to another product.

They'd be chasing their tails.

[balthazar]

This gas $ environment must really be (or going to) hurt toyota bad, with a brand new, over-budget plant to pay off and an uncompetitive, no-hybrid/ no-diesel, defective truck trickling out the door....

[enzl]

This gas $ environment must really be (or going to) hurt toyota bad, with a brand new, over-budget plant to pay off and an uncompetitive, no-hybrid/ no-diesel, defective truck trickling out the door....

Wishful thinking, my friend.

They have exactly 1 plant that is operating truly under-capacity.

GM has every plant but 1 or 2 operating that way.

Frightening times.

I'd love to know where you guys hide from outside information. It might be useful when I vacation...

[Camino LS6]

Wishful thinking, my friend.

They have exactly 1 plant that is operating truly under-capacity.

GM has every plant but 1 or 2 operating that way.

Frightening times.

I'd love to know where you guys hide from outside information. It might be useful when I vacation...

Apples and oranges (and decades of difference).

Trucks are the topic here, and Balthazar is right.

Toyota has a mess on their hands in the truck department.

[enzl]

Apples and oranges (and decades of difference).

Trucks are the topic here, and Balthazar is right.

Toyota has a mess on their hands in the truck department.

Toyota's truck situation is, even at worst case scenario, a small drain of a huge bucket of cash.

GM hasn't made a profit in 25 years without large trucks.

Who's in worse shape because of trucks? It's not even a horse race, man.

Toyota will have a proportionate share of a smaller market--one that it has increased its presence in from Zero 25 years ago to 10% today. How is this some catastrophic failure? Every business has under-performing divisions or parts--has anyone here read a business page before? I'm just shocked.

Technically, large trucks aren't good anywhere. Ask Ford---scratch that, Ford figured out how to make a profit last Q--and GM's too busy................ giving RW a raise!

And, if the Tacoma survives the rust-thru debacle or not, it has effectively slaughtered the pathetic Colorado/Canyon twins & the Sienna pushed GM out of the minivan market entirely. My guess is GM could use another 350k or so of high transaction price volume right now, no?

C'mon. This argument doesn't pass the smell test, man.

[hyperv6]

This is non news.

All companies will cut back truck production.

Toyota is getting an aveage of 55 days on the lot for many of their cars. The trucks and Scion are taking the biggest hits.This will not help Toyota but it will not kill them in the short term. As long as their small car line continue to sell and if they can come up with the next step plug in hybrid to compete with the Volt they will hang on.

We can continue to pray for them to stumble as quality is not what it once was precieved.

GM did not fall in one year and recover in two as goes Toyota.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Toyota's truck situation is, even at worst case scenario, a small drain of a huge bucket of cash.

GM hasn't made a profit in 25 years without large trucks.

Who's in worse shape because of trucks? It's not even a horse race, man.

Toyota will have a proportionate share of a smaller market--one that it has increased its presence in from Zero 25 years ago to 10% today. How is this some catastrophic failure? Every business has under-performing divisions or parts--has anyone here read a business page before? I'm just shocked.

Technically, large trucks aren't good anywhere. Ask Ford---scratch that, Ford figured out how to make a profit last Q--and GM's too busy................ giving RW a raise!

And, if the Tacoma survives the rust-thru debacle or not, it has effectively slaughtered the pathetic Colorado/Canyon twins & the Sienna pushed GM out of the minivan market entirely. My guess is GM could use another 350k or so of high transaction price volume right now, no?

C'mon. This argument doesn't pass the smell test, man.

Still doesn't negate the fact that Toyota missed the mark BIG TIME (yet again)

[Camino LS6]

Still doesn't negate the fact that Toyota missed the mark BIG TIME (yet again)

Exactly.

The Tundra has been one misadventure after another, and now the environment has become tough for the established players let alone Toyota.

I'd have to say that the trucks (especially the Tundra) have to be the biggest blunder ever made by Toyota in our market. That, by itself, is of great significance.

[Camino LS6]

I'd venture a guess that we will be seeing a semi-permanent reduction in the full-size truck market by the time fuel prices finally stabilize. Toyota will be left holding a very expensive bag at that point. Ford and Chevy will trim back as needed, but this change is likely to tighten their grip on what remains of the market going forward.

But.

The compact truck market could be anyone's at this point. That's going to be an interesting arena to watch.

[Blake Noble]

The compact truck market could be anyone's at this point. That's going to be an interesting arena to watch.

GM should produce a high-quality, very well designed compact pickup that is a return to the formula followed by both generations of the S-Series pickup: tough as nails and dependable no matter if you have a two-wheel drive example or a four-wheel drive example, easily personalized, good handling for a small truck, and good fuel economy. Manual transmissions are a must, and a good four-cylinder engine should be prioritized this time around, one with very good low end grunt and torque that is readily available.

Granted, no generation of S-Series truck had an interior that you could write home about and were rough in places (squeaks and rattles were aplenty, about three notches above a British Leyland product).

There is no excuse for the GMT-355 trucks. They were maybe class-leading for a little under a year before other new pickups were introduced after them, and then they were easily surpassed in design and quality, and looked like a big joke. For the price of a well-equipped Canyon Z71, you could also buy a larger Sierra with a V8 that was almost just as well-equipped.

If GM has a MCE planned for GMT-355, all work for it should be brought to a halt, and the remaining money invested into bringing the NG GM compact pickup to market much sooner. When the market shifts to small trucks again, GM will find itself holding the bag if it continues to offer the GMT-355 trucks.

[Camino LS6]

GM should produce a high-quality, very well designed compact pickup that is a return to the formula followed by both generations of the S-Series pickup: tough as nails and dependable no matter if you have a two-wheel drive example or a four-wheel drive example, easily personalized, good handling for a small truck, and good fuel economy. Manual transmissions are a must, and a good four-cylinder engine should be prioritized this time around, one with very good low end grunt and torque that is readily available.

Granted, no generation of S-Series truck had an interior that you could write home about and were rough in places (squeaks and rattles were aplenty, about three notches above a British Leyland product).

There is no excuse for the GMT-355 trucks. They were maybe class-leading for a little under a year before other new pickups were introduced after them, and then they were easily surpassed in design and quality, and looked like a big joke. For the price of a well-equipped Canyon Z71, you could also buy a larger Sierra with a V8 that was almost just as well-equipped.

If GM has a MCE planned for GMT-355, all work for it should be brought to a halt, and the remaining money invested into bringing the NG GM compact pickup to market much sooner. When the market shifts to small trucks again, GM will find itself holding the bag if it continues to offer the GMT-355 trucks.

Agreed 100%

[CARBIZ]

Toyota's truck situation is, even at worst case scenario, a small drain of a huge bucket of cash.

GM hasn't made a profit in 25 years without large trucks.

Who's in worse shape because of trucks? It's not even a horse race, man.

Toyota will have a proportionate share of a smaller market--one that it has increased its presence in from Zero 25 years ago to 10% today. How is this some catastrophic failure? Every business has under-performing divisions or parts--has anyone here read a business page before? I'm just shocked.

Technically, large trucks aren't good anywhere. Ask Ford---scratch that, Ford figured out how to make a profit last Q--and GM's too busy................ giving RW a raise!

And, if the Tacoma survives the rust-thru debacle or not, it has effectively slaughtered the pathetic Colorado/Canyon twins & the Sienna pushed GM out of the minivan market entirely. My guess is GM could use another 350k or so of high transaction price volume right now, no?

C'mon. This argument doesn't pass the smell test, man.

Funny, that: the Uplander/SV6 are the #2 selling vans in Canada. The Caravan beat them out, of course. A Corvette customer I had today rolled in on a new Canyon. He loves the truck. Thrilled with the gas mileage. He's looking to trade his '96 Vette on a new one. He seemed to know a thing or two about vehicles.

You can find bad news if in everything if you want to. The under performing Tundra plant and the Tacoma rust problem are but leaks in the dyke. Added to the Avalon launch problems last year, the Prius computer problems, Tundra frame and tailgate issues - well, you get the picture: it eventually becomes a torrential downpour if left unchecked.

I am sure GM was pretty smug with the Cimaron and Oldsmobile diesel problems, too. Look where that got them.

[CARBIZ]

GM should produce a high-quality, very well designed compact pickup that is a return to the formula followed by both generations of the S-Series pickup: tough as nails and dependable no matter if you have a two-wheel drive example or a four-wheel drive example, easily personalized, good handling for a small truck, and good fuel economy. Manual transmissions are a must, and a good four-cylinder engine should be prioritized this time around, one with very good low end grunt and torque that is readily available.

Granted, no generation of S-Series truck had an interior that you could write home about and were rough in places (squeaks and rattles were aplenty, about three notches above a British Leyland product).

There is no excuse for the GMT-355 trucks. They were maybe class-leading for a little under a year before other new pickups were introduced after them, and then they were easily surpassed in design and quality, and looked like a big joke. For the price of a well-equipped Canyon Z71, you could also buy a larger Sierra with a V8 that was almost just as well-equipped.

If GM has a MCE planned for GMT-355, all work for it should be brought to a halt, and the remaining money invested into bringing the NG GM compact pickup to market much sooner. When the market shifts to small trucks again, GM will find itself holding the bag if it continues to offer the GMT-355 trucks.

Well, not quite. Don't forget, GM 'market prices' their vehicles. A Z71 Colorado is about $5k cheaper than a comparably equipped Silverado.

The point that has been made before is that $5 a gallon changes the landscape. GM may be catching hell from so-called enthusiasts for the 5 cylinder engine in the GMT-355s, but GM is very well positioned with these trucks when (not if) gas goes north of $5. BTW, we are already paying over $5 a U.S. gallon here.

[Blake Noble]

Well, not quite. Don't forget, GM 'market prices' their vehicles. A Z71 Colorado is about $5k cheaper than a comparably equipped Silverado.

Well, let me ask another question then: For how many people will that five-thousand dollar price difference keep them away from considering the larger, better-quality alternative, especially if they can afford such a difference?

The point that has been made before is that $5 a gallon changes the landscape. GM may be catching hell from so-called enthusiasts for the 5 cylinder engine in the GMT-355s, but GM is very well positioned with these trucks when (not if) gas goes north of $5. BTW, we are already paying over $5 a U.S. gallon here.

The GMT-355s are not a class-leading product and there are better options available from the likes of Nissan and Dodge/Mitsubishi. I know that I would not trade in my 1998 Sonoma for a 2008 Canyon. Mark my words, GM will be left holding the bag with the GMT-355 trucks if they are not replaced soon. There is very little incentive to buy one of those trucks over the competition's offerings (save for maybe the Ford Ranger).

Edited April 29, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[gm4life]

The GMT-355's stink no excuse, they stunk when they came out. The interior was already looking like it was 5 years old. I thought GM was working on a new world class small truck in South America?

[Camino LS6]

For the small trucks, I see it this way:

- Colorado/Canyon are way outclassed

- Ranger is dead

- Dakota is way too big

- Tacoma is way too big and has a horribly compromised rep now

- Nissan isn't much of a player with the Frontier

- Isuzu is gone

Looks like anyone's game to me.

[daves87rs]

GM should produce a high-quality, very well designed compact pickup that is a return to the formula followed by both generations of the S-Series pickup: tough as nails and dependable no matter if you have a two-wheel drive example or a four-wheel drive example, easily personalized, good handling for a small truck, and good fuel economy. Manual transmissions are a must, and a good four-cylinder engine should be prioritized this time around, one with very good low end grunt and torque that is readily available.

Granted, no generation of S-Series truck had an interior that you could write home about and were rough in places (squeaks and rattles were aplenty, about three notches above a British Leyland product).

There is no excuse for the GMT-355 trucks. They were maybe class-leading for a little under a year before other new pickups were introduced after them, and then they were easily surpassed in design and quality, and looked like a big joke. For the price of a well-equipped Canyon Z71, you could also buy a larger Sierra with a V8 that was almost just as well-equipped.

If GM has a MCE planned for GMT-355, all work for it should be brought to a halt, and the remaining money invested into bringing the NG GM compact pickup to market much sooner. When the market shifts to small trucks again, GM will find itself holding the bag if it continues to offer the GMT-355 trucks.

Agreed. Affordable, solid trucks that are good on gas are needed now....

[daves87rs]

For the small trucks, I see it this way:

- Colorado/Canyon are way outclassed

- Ranger is dead

- Dakota is way too big

- Tacoma is way too big and has a horribly compromised rep now

- Nissan isn't much of a player with the Frontier

- Isuzu is gone

Looks like anyone's game to me.

Interesting....2 of those trucks are gone next year.....one will have to disappear...leaving one that grow a bit....but has become quite pricey...

There is an open market here for the right product...

[enzl]

Funny, that: the Uplander/SV6 are the #2 selling vans in Canada. The Caravan beat them out, of course. A Corvette customer I had today rolled in on a new Canyon. He loves the truck. Thrilled with the gas mileage. He's looking to trade his '96 Vette on a new one. He seemed to know a thing or two about vehicles.

You can find bad news if in everything if you want to. The under performing Tundra plant and the Tacoma rust problem are but leaks in the dyke. Added to the Avalon launch problems last year, the Prius computer problems, Tundra frame and tailgate issues - well, you get the picture: it eventually becomes a torrential downpour if left unchecked.

I am sure GM was pretty smug with the Cimaron and Oldsmobile diesel problems, too. Look where that got them.

No anecdotes, please.

Fearless prediction: Toyota will survive and prosper even with 'frontrunner' backlash.

As stated earlier--they've run GM out of the other truck biz' and the large truck nightmare has only begun for all parties.

All of you would select Toyota's competitive position if it was your business. GM is in real trouble with the softness in critical sectors.

Sour grapes, coulda-shoulda-woulda & bitter hopes that someone else needs to fail is simply not a business plan. Not with a competitor as relentless as Toyota.

Again, the denial or need to parse words just to pull a positive out of a true disaster is incredible.

Biz, I know you're a smart person--but you've got to take a real, careful look at what is really going on...this is nothing short of a catastrophe with a perfect storm of economic issues that may drive GM to the literal brink--Union issues, borrowing costs, mortgage exposures, housing woes--I mean, even I couldn't make up a worse case scenario.

[daves87rs]

No anecdotes, please.

Fearless prediction: Toyota will survive and prosper even with 'frontrunner' backlash.

As stated earlier--they've run GM out of the other truck biz' and the large truck nightmare has only begun for all parties.

All of you would select Toyota's competitive position if it was your business. GM is in real trouble with the softness in critical sectors.

Sour grapes, coulda-shoulda-woulda & bitter hopes that someone else needs to fail is simply not a business plan. Not with a competitor as relentless as Toyota.

Again, the denial or need to parse words just to pull a positive out of a true disaster is incredible.

Biz, I know you're a smart person--but you've got to take a real, careful look at what is really going on...this is nothing short of a catastrophe with a perfect storm of economic issues that may drive GM to the literal brink--Union issues, borrowing costs, mortgage exposures, housing woes--I mean, even I couldn't make up a worse case scenario.

QFT

The mailbu, Cobalt, Aveo, G6, Astra and a few other cars are not going to be enought to hold things up....

While it is great that the trucks run on E85, it's simply not rolling out anywhere near fast enough to save sales...

Though if the predections the last few days for oil is right, pretty much alll the auto makers are going to be in trouble in NA.....

[ZL-1]

All of you would select Toyota's competitive position if it was your business. GM is in real trouble with the softness in critical sectors.

[SuperSport623]

they just mentioned this on the CW 11 news..... and made it sound like GM was closing down forever...

[hyperv6]

The key to the future is who can build the best small truck and who can reinvent the1/2 ton truck into a more efficent package.

Bigger is no longer going to be better.

As pointed out no one really makes a killer small truck and the bigger trucks future is going to be limited.

We are going to see some no and crazy ideas in the future.

trucks like the Ridgline and GMC Denali Show truck are going to point to the future. Also the small truck market will go to he who builds the best new original product.

The next 5-8 years will be interesting to watch the market change.

[Camino LS6]

The next few years will be a challenge for everyone, not just automakers. This really will be a trial by fire.

But when it comes to trucks, no Enzl, I wouldn't choose Toyota's position.

Ford seems to be the only truck manufacturer becoming prepared for the new realities in the truck market at this moment. That part of Toyota's business is in disarray, and GM has been too quiet of late to assess where they stand.

He who moves most quickly to market with new approaches to the truck sector may become quite dominant.

Until GM shows me some serious innovation with smaller trucks, I'd bet on Ford to make this work.

[RJB]

Don't worry GM is poised to make up the slack with the dwindling sales of their large trucks/suvs. They are going to have a ton of new product coming out very soon, everyone here knows this and I know it too...trust me. Whether the buyers out their take to this new product is another story, but I think once they see what GM has to offer and their continued commitment to smaller more efficient vehicles more people will jump on board.

It still upsets me too that Rick & friends are getting a pay hike when I'm down in the trenches doing the grunt work and not seeing a dime though!! I'm not UAW and I don't work in a plant either, so no one jump on me, I'm not even salary so you know where I'm coming from.

[Camino LS6]

Don't worry GM is poised to make up the slack with the dwindling sales of their large trucks/suvs. They are going to have a ton of new product coming out very soon, everyone here knows this and I know it too...trust me. Whether the buyers out their take to this new product is another story, but I think once they see what GM has to offer and their continued commitment to smaller more efficient vehicles more people will jump on board.

It still upsets me too that Rick & friends are getting a pay hike when I'm down in the trenches doing the grunt work and not seeing a dime though!! I'm not UAW and I don't work in a plant either, so no one jump on me, I'm not even salary so you know where I'm coming from.

Glad to hear from you, and yes, I know GM has quite alot in the works. I'm just wondering about what they plan for small trucks and SUV alternatives since both will be critical. I do worry about timing, GM often misses the boat there.

[CARBIZ]

No anecdotes, please.

Fearless prediction: Toyota will survive and prosper even with 'frontrunner' backlash.

As stated earlier--they've run GM out of the other truck biz' and the large truck nightmare has only begun for all parties.

All of you would select Toyota's competitive position if it was your business. GM is in real trouble with the softness in critical sectors.

Sour grapes, coulda-shoulda-woulda & bitter hopes that someone else needs to fail is simply not a business plan. Not with a competitor as relentless as Toyota.

Again, the denial or need to parse words just to pull a positive out of a true disaster is incredible.

Biz, I know you're a smart person--but you've got to take a real, careful look at what is really going on...this is nothing short of a catastrophe with a perfect storm of economic issues that may drive GM to the literal brink--Union issues, borrowing costs, mortgage exposures, housing woes--I mean, even I couldn't make up a worse case scenario.

You forget, Enzl: I did. I rejected working for the #1 Toyota dealer in Canada and opted for another Chev store. Of course, I look at the bigger picture that it is our way of life that is at stake if we let ourselves be over-run, but that is just me. If Toyota wins this race, it will be more than just me looking for a job. So, instead of whining from the sidelines, I jumped into the mud and I will sling it out with Toyota, one customer at a time. Small victories.

As to anecdotes, well, I guess if being in the business for 12 years and having a few thousand anecdotes is worthless, then what would be valid?

GM was in worse shape 2 1/2 years ago then it is now. Market forces outside of GM are worse, but I've been screaming about that for two years. Wagoner and Co. are not the problem, the fat cats on WallStreet and the lazy a-holes in Washington are. It isn't that I crow about everything GM does. I, too, wish for an solid Uplander replacement (coming in 14 months, I am told), a better interior on the GMT-355s (actually, the graphite cloth was an improvement), better gas mileage on the Aveo (oops, coming also), and other 'deficiciencies' within the GM product heiarchy, but I don't automatically reject EVERYTHING that they have accomplished.

The S-10 took 20 years to replace. We've only had the 355s for 5 years and, despite what people on this board think, they are an improvement in almost every way measurable. The ride alone is superior. Gas mileage has improved ( an increasingly important marker, BTW.) GM already has great trucks in Brazil. It wouldn't take much to bring them here.

[enzl]

You forget, Enzl: I did. I rejected working for the #1 Toyota dealer in Canada and opted for another Chev store. Of course, I look at the bigger picture that it is our way of life that is at stake if we let ourselves be over-run, but that is just me. If Toyota wins this race, it will be more than just me looking for a job. So, instead of whining from the sidelines, I jumped into the mud and I will sling it out with Toyota, one customer at a time. Small victories.

As to anecdotes, well, I guess if being in the business for 12 years and having a few thousand anecdotes is worthless, then what would be valid?

GM was in worse shape 2 1/2 years ago then it is now. Market forces outside of GM are worse, but I've been screaming about that for two years. Wagoner and Co. are not the problem, the fat cats on WallStreet and the lazy a-holes in Washington are. It isn't that I crow about everything GM does. I, too, wish for an solid Uplander replacement (coming in 14 months, I am told), a better interior on the GMT-355s (actually, the graphite cloth was an improvement), better gas mileage on the Aveo (oops, coming also), and other 'deficiciencies' within the GM product heiarchy, but I don't automatically reject EVERYTHING that they have accomplished.

The S-10 took 20 years to replace. We've only had the 355s for 5 years and, despite what people on this board think, they are an improvement in almost every way measurable. The ride alone is superior. Gas mileage has improved ( an increasingly important marker, BTW.) GM already has great trucks in Brazil. It wouldn't take much to bring them here.

First, your personal choices are admirable...but they're yours, not a conclusive look at the business at large, nor are they typical. I can only assume that your defense of the Colorado/Canyon makes my point for me as to your bias--they were, are and will be mediocre product---only the other mediocrity in the segment keeps them remotely in the ballpark--I get in one and I think an entire vehicle development team should be shot...the fact they had 20 years to think about it makes it more embarassing!

If we're playing that game, I'll give you a few anecdotes from MY time in the biz (6 years+):

1. More that one-third of my Chevy customers REFUSE to consider another Chevy.

2. Our Toyota Store, in a worse area, both economically & logistically, has shown 15%+ growth NEW sales, every year for 6 years, despite management strife and turnover.

3. Most of my friends come to me for advice about new vehicle purchases...probably 50 or so since my current job...I give them honest opinions, and I have recommended many many Domestic vehicles--NOT ONE of these middle class or better individuals would take my advice--ALL imports, period.

So, while I'm genuinely impressed with your stand...it means nothing to the larger picture.

And, just to clarify, I would prefer Toyota's overall position as a competitor, not just its large trucks--I would avoid any company depending upon large trucks for profitability--Toyota simply could shut down both US plants, take a tax writedown and still go on making BIllions.

Edited April 29, 2008 by enzl

[The O.C.]

Interesting....2 of those trucks are gone next year.....one will have to disappear...leaving one that grow a bit....but has become quite pricey...

There is an open market here for the right product...

Quite frankly, I don't think there's much to be gained by spending a ton of money on a compact pickup......simply for fuel economy gains......

Even today, a 4X4 Tacoma with a 4.0L V6 and 5-speed automatic is rated 16/20........compared to a 4X4 Colorado L4/4-speed automatic that gets 16/22....and the L5/4-speed automatic gets 15/21......

So you have a bigger, roomier, V6-powered midsize truck that gets fuel economy comparable to a 4-or-5 cylinder Colorado that is smaller and less powerful.......

Maybe GM could do better......but right now, the consumer realistically is seeing next-to-no MPG gain by going with the GM products.......

[enzl]

Quite frankly, I don't think there's much to be gained by spending a ton of money on a compact pickup......simply for fuel economy gains......

Even today, a 4X4 Tacoma with a 4.0L V6 and 5-speed automatic is rated 16/20........compared to a 4X4 Colorado L4/4-speed automatic that gets 16/22....and the L5/4-speed automatic gets 15/21......

So you have a bigger, roomier, V6-powered midsize truck that gets fuel economy comparable to a 4-or-5 cylinder Colorado that is smaller and less powerful.......

Maybe GM could do better......but right now, the consumer realistically is seeing next-to-no MPG gain by going with the GM products.......

Plus, you've got to live with a C/C daily.

I'm sorry--they're objectively and subjectively poor. There isn't a figure or stat you could quote me to subject myself or someone I know to one of these trucks.

Listen, if you want to sell me on the idea that a 'bu is a better choice than Camry--I'm with you. But people here trying to tell me that the C/C's are decent is laughable--I could even live with a Cobalt over a Corolla--but GM's prior product development issues could be summed up by simply openning the doors on the C/C's.

When I see these trucks, they just piss me off--we stock very few of them...we go months without an inquiry about them. They are old GM-think that simply cannot be repeated with new products.

[CARBIZ]

Quite frankly, I don't think there's much to be gained by spending a ton of money on a compact pickup......simply for fuel economy gains......

Even today, a 4X4 Tacoma with a 4.0L V6 and 5-speed automatic is rated 16/20........compared to a 4X4 Colorado L4/4-speed automatic that gets 16/22....and the L5/4-speed automatic gets 15/21......

So you have a bigger, roomier, V6-powered midsize truck that gets fuel economy comparable to a 4-or-5 cylinder Colorado that is smaller and less powerful.......

Maybe GM could do better......but right now, the consumer realistically is seeing next-to-no MPG gain by going with the GM products.......

Just think of the weight the Tacoma is shedding daily under the body!

I see a lot of personal opinions, but I think we all agree none of the product in this market stands out. With $3 a gallon gas, this segment hasn't gotten respect in years. All I am saying is that the tide is turning. All the manufacturers need to look at compact trucks as a serious segment that they want to be in. GM is taking a step in the right direction with handing the reins to Brazil. I saw a helluva lot of Montana pickup trucks down there. The Brazilians know a lot about $8 a gallon gas AND ethanol.

[buyacargetacheck]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Don't make me laugh. It's going to take more than a few little rust problems to destroy the reputation of the vehicle Top Gear couldn't destroy. The Tacoma and its predecessors have a solid 40 year record of toughness. Here in the country's largest car market, LA, you wouldn't believe the number of 1980s vintage Toyota trucks puttering around, the choice of what seems like a million gardeners.

And the resale value? Check this out: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p...amp;cardist=100

$9000 for a small p/u with nearly 200,000 miles on it. And he'll get it too. GM isn't even on the radar of small p/u buyers here. BTW, Tundras are everywhere here in California too.

- Tacoma is way too big and has a horribly compromised rep now

[CSpec]

One can only hope GM Brazil is working overtime on a new, cheap, small truck.

[Blake Noble]

One can only hope GM Brazil is working overtime on a new, cheap, small truck and that it will be here by the end of the decade or the very start of the next.

Fixed.

I also hope that GM will infuse the NG GM compact pickup with some real quality. Quality that has been absent from the S-Series pickups and the GMT-355 trucks. My truck might be good on gas and tough as a bucket of nails, but it lacks when it comes to quality. It feels painfully cheap in places.

[The O.C.]

Fixed.

I also hope that GM will infuse the NG GM compact pickup with some real quality. Quality that has been absent from the S-Series pickups and the GMT-355 trucks. My truck might be good on gas and tough as a bucket of nails, but it lacks when it comes to quality. It feels painfully cheap in places.

If we are talking GM's next logical step in a small (re...not full-size) pickup, I feel their efforts would be better spent in developing a truly competitive midsize entry (a la Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) and then work harder to make the engines you supply it with truly competitive in fuel economy with other similarly-sized midsize pickups....

The market, I believe, has voted that consumers don't want a compact pickup truck. Fuel economy may indeed continue to be an escalating issue....but I think you'd lose more in competitiveness in the market segment by building a smaller truck than you'd make up in actual fuel economy.

[Camino LS6]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Don't make me laugh. It's going to take more than a few little rust problems to destroy the reputation of the vehicle Top Gear couldn't destroy. The Tacoma and its predecessors have a solid 40 year record of toughness. Here in the country's largest car market, LA, you wouldn't believe the number of 1980s vintage Toyota trucks puttering around, the choice of what seems like a million gardeners.

And the resale value? Check this out: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p...amp;cardist=100

$9000 for a small p/u with nearly 200,000 miles on it. And he'll get it too. GM isn't even on the radar of small p/u buyers here. BTW, Tundras are everywhere here in California too.

In that case, something is wrong with folks in LA. No one, I mean no one, uses a tacoma as a contractors truck in this part of the world. Compact trucks are all but useless for real work, they just don't have the capacity - no matter who builds them.

[pow]

... the choice of what seems like a million gardeners.

+1

They just don't die... my grandfather had an early '90s Toyota "Truck" with a V6 and one of those yellow Ryder boxes over the rear dually wheels, and it just kept going and going and going. Some U-Hauls still use them.

[Camino LS6]

+1

They just don't die... my grandfather had an early '90s Toyota "Truck" with a V6 and one of those yellow Ryder boxes over the rear dually wheels, and it just kept going and going and going. Some U-Hauls still use them.

On this coast, most of those have long ago decomposed.

[gmpartsgirl]

I had a crew cab Z71 Colorado and LOVED it with one exception.. the 5 cylinder sucked eggs!! It's way underpowered. I think if they put the 4.3 back in and not the 5.3, are you kidding me?! All that truck ever needed was the 4.3. They are good solid trucks, they are never in for service. They could be improved very easily in terms of exterior styling and interior. They could have a real winner on their hands fairly easily, maybe smooth out the lines a bit and lose the name. Go back to simple, S-10. Pull on peoples heart strings. They loved the S-10.

[hyperv6]

Toyota's here are not as popular as they are elsewhere as the rust kills them. The local dealer already has bought back over 22 Tacoma's for failed frames and all were newer than my Sonoma.

As for the Colorado/Caynon line. I would not trade my present 97 GMC Sonoma for one. They ride fine and the 5 cylinder is fine but even in the most optioned ones the interior is crap and the styling sucks. I have tried to force myself to like them but to date I will spend omy money on another model form GM. Even at the reduced price I would rather have a HHR SS for a daily driver.

My present Sonoma has only had one Altenator failure and water pump failure in 11 years. It has been flawless and even through 10 winters it has just now started to show the start of rust at the base of the extended cab door that I fixed last week. I will replace it next year and already have about 5 people wanting to buy it when I sell it.

GM knows what they need to do. They will soon anounce their moves and as Ford they will continue to dominate the market as they have a lot of heritage and miles behind them.

The V6 will play very big as will weight reduction. Unibody will find a way in on this.

I ponder if GM may even make some kind of truck from the Acadia? They already have looked to the Zeta. The Zeta may be heavy as a car but it could make for a lighter truck.

Look for 3.6 Turbo's.

FYI. I have the high output 4.3 in my present truck and the I5 will run circles around the 4.3. The engine was never an issue to me just everything else.

Edited April 30, 2008 by hyperv6

[haypops]

+1

They just don't die... my grandfather had an early '90s Toyota "Truck" with a V6 and one of those yellow Ryder boxes over the rear dually wheels, and it just kept going and going and going. Some U-Hauls still use them.

One ton tacomas are infamous for rear differential problems. Here in the northern suburbs of LA the T100 is the hot set up for gardners. By the way I have taken to hide my 1996 Sonoma so as not to be bothered with people knocking on the door wanting to buy it.

[Blake Noble]

The old GMT-325 pickups are in very high demand. They have proven to be reliable trucks with tested and proven powertrains. People who purchase one know they are getting a vehicle that is every bit as a reliable as their Japanese counterparts. Like I have said many times, quality is not up to snuff in places, but they are comfortable, livable trucks.

And I rest assured when I say many owners of a GMT-325 will not trade their example in for a GMT-355 truck. They are a step backwards from what they have replaced.

I was lucky to have gotten my truck for a rather cheap $2700. Although some niggling problems have cropped up since I purchased it (broken driver's side door spring, sticking driver's side door lock, driver's side door seal leaking, back-lighting around the headlight switch refuses to stay fixed and lit, A/C system loosing charge), it is really a solid and clean truck. I do plan on keeping it for quite some time, even after I make a new car purchase.

Even if I did decide to sell it, I could actually make up to $2500 back from it, especially if I worked the bugs out of it.

Edited April 30, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Robert Hall]

+1

They just don't die... my grandfather had an early '90s Toyota "Truck" with a V6 and one of those yellow Ryder boxes over the rear dually wheels, and it just kept going and going and going. Some U-Hauls still use them.

I saw one of the U-Haul ones on I-40 in NM last Friday. And I still see many of the early '70s mini-motorhomes w/ Toyota cabs in Colorado. In dry climates like Colorado and AZ, they run forever. I certainly don't see very many '80s S-10s or Rangers still being driven compared to Toyotas...

[A Horse With No Name]

GM should produce a high-quality, very well designed compact pickup that is a return to the formula followed by both generations of the S-Series pickup: tough as nails and dependable no matter if you have a two-wheel drive example or a four-wheel drive example, easily personalized, good handling for a small truck, and good fuel economy. Manual transmissions are a must, and a good four-cylinder engine should be prioritized this time around, one with very good low end grunt and torque that is readily available.

Granted, no generation of S-Series truck had an interior that you could write home about and were rough in places (squeaks and rattles were aplenty, about three notches above a British Leyland product).

There is no excuse for the GMT-355 trucks. They were maybe class-leading for a little under a year before other new pickups were introduced after them, and then they were easily surpassed in design and quality, and looked like a big joke. For the price of a well-equipped Canyon Z71, you could also buy a larger Sierra with a V8 that was almost just as well-equipped.

If GM has a MCE planned for GMT-355, all work for it should be brought to a halt, and the remaining money invested into bringing the NG GM compact pickup to market much sooner. When the market shifts to small trucks again, GM will find itself holding the bag if it continues to offer the GMT-355 trucks.

Like Camino, I agree 100 percent.

Chris

[The O.C.]

The old GMT-325 pickups are in very high demand. They have proven to be reliable trucks with tested and proven powertrains. People who purchase one know they are getting a vehicle that is every bit as a reliable as their Japanese counterparts. Like I have said many times, quality is not up to snuff in places, but they are comfortable, livable trucks.

And I rest assured when I say many owners of a GMT-325 will not trade their example in for a GMT-355 truck. They are a step backwards from what they have replaced.

I was lucky to have gotten my truck for a rather cheap $2700. Although some niggling problems have cropped up since I purchased it (broken driver's side door spring, sticking driver's side door lock, driver's side door seal leaking, back-lighting around the headlight switch refuses to stay fixed and lit, A/C system loosing charge), it is really a solid and clean truck. I do plan on keeping it for quite some time, even after I make a new car purchase.

Even if I did decide to sell it, I could actually make up to $2500 back from it, especially if I worked the bugs out of it.

A Chevy Blazer from that era was the worst example of a vehicle I've ever owned. I can't tell you how poor the quality was, or how many problems I had with it. It was a true disgrace.

It was GM at it's WORST......