Good Bye Buick

[daves87rs]

Not exactly I do regret being called a douche. I have very strong convictions I see what people do trade in perfectly good cars in this case a very nice highway cruiser. I am hardly of a cult like mentality the Camry isn't the best car on the market, Accord or Malibu is in that class. Both of which were on import biased car and drivers ten best list that is good enough for me. Talk about a class leading interior, and the 'Bu offers a hybrid. Dedication is sticking to your convictions and supporting an American company. Listen here childern (I would bet I am old enough to be a father to some of you) I have watched many a good friend get a Toyota only to find out the grass on the other side isn't that much greener. My nephew did the same thing, although he has only had a few months with no problems yet. I call being a douche trading in a Buick after 28 years of ownership and cars that this person has been satisfied with for the most part. He wonders why Olds went under, well if people like him want Buick and GM in General to survive he should have got another car, or hey how about the comfy and roomy Ford Tarurs with the new 3.5L 6spd auto that would be a great road car. Listen I did drive a CR-V, Rav-4 before I got the Torrent just for a comparison I don't blindly buy GM products but have always like them more than the alternative and can get a good price on them. I have had excellent luck with my GM cars overall so I still find it hard to believe. Mark my words I never wished him bad luck I was just being honest. When you have been dedicated to a brand or company like I have it is hard to see loyal owners trade in on a enemy vehicle. GM makes a very nice product in the segment Malibu hybrid and there is a better looking Altima hybrid if the 'Bu was a problem. I find it odd people who say they like GM on here and throw there convictions out the window. Go ahead buy a freakin Toyota, then again I am silly country boy. I do hope he ends up with another Buick or GM car someday. So be careful with your name calling "douche" I do regret the use of this word and am slightly pissed off by it. Then again I am just "stupid and blindly" deticated to GM cars. Just like most other people on this site. This is a GM fan sight what do you expect if you want Toyo humping there must be other boards out there. Also I wasn't shuning him I just get emotionally and say what I think. Good Night.

gm4life-I don't think he was aiming for you, my friend-just the people in this post in general. While many of us would agree with you, sometimes people just have to learn that way....granted, his car might really suck.Then again, it could turn out to be his favorite....

While Croc might have been a bit harsh there, he still made a good point-we should have shown a bit more respect in this post. As a group, we are much better than that.

If my wife ends up in a Vibe-will I get this kind of reaction in posting beacuse it is part Toyota?

While I might not agree with his decision, it won't keep me from being opened minded.......

[daves87rs]

>>"...many move up to a Camry (often from a Corolla) in their late 20s to early 40s... (all the Camry owners I know are in that age range). "<<

Ha! Average toyota Buyer Age (last I saw) is 46 and slowly climbing. avalon is not moving enough units to swing that number... undoubtedly the camry is the car that is offseting things like the yaris, prius & corolla and dragging the ABA up to 46. That means the ABA for the camry has to be in the neighborhood of the late 50s (not that toyota would ever publish that figure).

Most every camry I bother to look at has someone at least obviously in their 40s, and often more like 60-70 behind the wheel.

Only person I know who owns a toyota (camry) is an aunt I haven't talked to in about 3 years. If she still owns hers, she's 57.

The only two camry owners I know are 30 and 62....

[Robert Hall]

>>"...many move up to a Camry (often from a Corolla) in their late 20s to early 40s... (all the Camry owners I know are in that age range). "<<

Ha! Average toyota Buyer Age (last I saw) is 46 and slowly climbing. avalon is not moving enough units to swing that number... undoubtedly the camry is the car that is offseting things like the yaris, prius & corolla and dragging the ABA up to 46. That means the ABA for the camry has to be in the neighborhood of the late 50s (not that toyota would ever publish that figure).

Most every camry I bother to look at has someone at least obviously in their 40s, and often more like 60-70 behind the wheel.

Only person I know who owns a toyota (camry) is an aunt I haven't talked to in about 3 years. If she still owns hers, she's 57.

I'm sure the numbers vary in area and population group. The Camry owners I know are all software developers in their late 20s to early 40s, several are serial Toyota owners (traded up from Corollas) and several also have other Toyota products like Siennas, 4Runners also.

[gm4life]

gm4life-I don't think he was aiming for you, my friend-just the people in this post in general. While many of us would agree with you, sometimes people just have to learn that way....granted, his car might really suck.Then again, it could turn out to be his favorite....

While Croc might have been a bit harsh there, he still made a good point-we should have shown a bit more respect in this post. As a group, we are much better than that.

If my wife ends up in a Vibe-will I get this kind of reaction in posting beacuse it is part Toyota?

While I might not agree with his decision, it won't keep me from being opened minded.......

Dave thanks for putting it that way, I just let emotion get in the way too much. I understand apologize. It does tick me off tho, and I have nothing against the Vibe because it looks like a Pontiac, supports GM and is actually made on a good platform even though I think the new Corolla isn't as good looking as the old one, same things goes for the Matrix. I just don't take kindly to be called a "douche" that is all. I have been very passionate about things like this for much of my life and thank you for claming me down.

[Lamar]

The only two camry owners I know are 30 and 62....

That's an average of 46... consistent with findings...

I haven't chimed in on this post yet... and I don't quite advocate trading into a dead-feeling Toyota sedan... but if the OP is trading into a Toyota, wouldn't the Avalon be a more lateral move?

[Croc]

Not exactly I do regret being called a douche. I have very strong convictions I see what people do trade in perfectly good cars in this case a very nice highway cruiser. I am hardly of a cult like mentality the Camry isn't the best car on the market, Accord or Malibu is in that class. Both of which were on import biased car and drivers ten best list that is good enough for me. Talk about a class leading interior, and the 'Bu offers a hybrid. Dedication is sticking to your convictions and supporting an American company. Listen here childern (I would bet I am old enough to be a father to some of you) I have watched many a good friend get a Toyota only to find out the grass on the other side isn't that much greener. My nephew did the same thing, although he has only had a few months with no problems yet. I call being a douche trading in a Buick after 28 years of ownership and cars that this person has been satisfied with for the most part. He wonders why Olds went under, well if people like him want Buick and GM in General to survive he should have got another car, or hey how about the comfy and roomy Ford Tarurs with the new 3.5L 6spd auto that would be a great road car. Listen I did drive a CR-V, Rav-4 before I got the Torrent just for a comparison I don't blindly buy GM products but have always like them more than the alternative and can get a good price on them. I have had excellent luck with my GM cars overall so I still find it hard to believe. Mark my words I never wished him bad luck I was just being honest. When you have been dedicated to a brand or company like I have it is hard to see loyal owners trade in on a enemy vehicle. GM makes a very nice product in the segment Malibu hybrid and there is a better looking Altima hybrid if the 'Bu was a problem. I find it odd people who say they like GM on here and throw there convictions out the window. Go ahead buy a freakin Toyota, then again I am silly country boy. I do hope he ends up with another Buick or GM car someday. So be careful with your name calling "douche" I do regret the use of this word and am slightly pissed off by it. Then again I am just "stupid and blindly" deticated to GM cars. Just like most other people on this site. This is a GM fan sight what do you expect if you want Toyo humping there must be other boards out there. Also I wasn't shuning him I just get emotionally and say what I think. Good Night.

Clearly I struck a nerve. And as others have said my post was directed at a wide number of people, but you were included. You may not like the label "douche," and for all I know you may not actually be one...but the comment you made with regards to the OP was "douchey" as were many others' comments.

It's clear you have strong convictions, but you will not be endearing yourself to people who do not have the exact same viewpoint as yourself if you do not present your views with tact. The Camry may not be the best car on the market, but to automatically criticize the OP as you did implicitly says that he is 1. ignorant of his own needs and 2. ignorant of how to spend his own hard-earned money to buy a car that best meets his needs. That's insulting, and makes you look like a douche. I'm sure the OP is an intelligent person, who looked at several cars before deciding that the Camry is the one that best fits his needs at his price point.

Whether you agree with the OP or not, you should be asking him questions as to why he made the decision he did instead of flying off the handle and insulting him. Guess what? I bet he doesn't post around here much more as a direct result of the tone and content of the posts immediately following his thread. Congrats, you helped scare another person off who will now think that the GM fans are jerks.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Clearly I struck a nerve. And as others have said my post was directed at a wide number of people, but you were included. You may not like the label "douche," and for all I know you may not actually be one...but the comment you made with regards to the OP was "douchey" as were many others' comments.

It's clear you have strong convictions, but you will not be endearing yourself to people who do not have the exact same viewpoint as yourself if you do not present your views with tact. The Camry may not be the best car on the market, but to automatically criticize the OP as you did implicitly says that he is 1. ignorant of his own needs and 2. ignorant of how to spend his own hard-earned money to buy a car that best meets his needs. That's insulting, and makes you look like a douche. I'm sure the OP is an intelligent person, who looked at several cars before deciding that the Camry is the one that best fits his needs at his price point.

Whether you agree with the OP or not, you should be asking him questions as to why he made the decision he did instead of flying off the handle and insulting him. Guess what? I bet he doesn't post around here much more as a direct result of the tone and content of the posts immediately following his thread. Congrats, you helped scare another person off who will now think that the GM fans are jerks.

Hell has frozen over, we actually agree.

[enzl]

Clearly I struck a nerve. And as others have said my post was directed at a wide number of people, but you were included. You may not like the label "douche," and for all I know you may not actually be one...but the comment you made with regards to the OP was "douchey" as were many others' comments.

It's clear you have strong convictions, but you will not be endearing yourself to people who do not have the exact same viewpoint as yourself if you do not present your views with tact. The Camry may not be the best car on the market, but to automatically criticize the OP as you did implicitly says that he is 1. ignorant of his own needs and 2. ignorant of how to spend his own hard-earned money to buy a car that best meets his needs. That's insulting, and makes you look like a douche. I'm sure the OP is an intelligent person, who looked at several cars before deciding that the Camry is the one that best fits his needs at his price point.

Whether you agree with the OP or not, you should be asking him questions as to why he made the decision he did instead of flying off the handle and insulting him. Guess what? I bet he doesn't post around here much more as a direct result of the tone and content of the posts immediately following his thread. Congrats, you helped scare another person off who will now think that the GM fans are jerks.

As someone here that also has a habit of being on the 'wrong' (i.e. not fawning over GM) side of the issues, I have to strongly second Croc's POV.

There have been innumerable times when I've almost decided to just leave this board. And, quite frankly, it had nothing to do with a particular topic or post. Without going into great detail or rehashing old battles, suffice it to say that my opinion about a non-GM topic (and one I felt strongly about) was basically thrown out because of where I stand on GM-related issues--I believe that that type of callous disregard for others has reared it's ugly head in this topic.

Bottom line--somebody makes a practical, defensible choice to buy a Toyota, and people here wish them ill? It's disgusting & goes to the core of why this site, IMHO, has gotten more about GM propaganda and less about intelligent discourse.

My gut tells me this degradation has led to guys giving up...some you guys couldn't stand with similar opinions to mine, as well as others like FlyBrian, who simply abandoned this place--which, given the time, effort and dedication he had shown to that point, must have meant that leaving simply didn't mean as much to him anymore. That's just sad.

I hope better comes out of this thread, but I fear we'll just go back to the party line quickly....thanks for those who would consider my thoughts as a genuine attempt to broaden and improve the general level of discourse here.

[The O.C.]

I think that people have been so hostile to GM for so long that we who love GM cars are sort of undergoing shell-shock.

Chris

Don't forget......some of the people on here, like me and Enzl, who are EXTREMELY critical of General Motors.......are also some of it's biggest fans.......and want to see them prosper just as much as ANY of you......

"....we who love GM cars....." extends to people like us as well. Doesn't mean we won't criticize the product if we think it's deserving.......

[The O.C.]

As someone here that also has a habit of being on the 'wrong' (i.e. not fawning over GM) side of the issues, I have to strongly second Croc's POV.

There have been innumerable times when I've almost decided to just leave this board. And, quite frankly, it had nothing to do with a particular topic or post. Without going into great detail or rehashing old battles, suffice it to say that my opinion about a non-GM topic (and one I felt strongly about) was basically thrown out because of where I stand on GM-related issues--I believe that that type of callous disregard for others has reared it's ugly head in this topic.

Bottom line--somebody makes a practical, defensible choice to buy a Toyota, and people here wish them ill? It's disgusting & goes to the core of why this site, IMHO, has gotten more about GM propaganda and less about intelligent discourse.

My gut tells me this degradation has led to guys giving up...some you guys couldn't stand with similar opinions to mine, as well as others like FlyBrian, who simply abandoned this place--which, given the time, effort and dedication he had shown to that point, must have meant that leaving simply didn't mean as much to him anymore. That's just sad.

I hope better comes out of this thread, but I fear we'll just go back to the party line quickly....thanks for those who would consider my thoughts as a genuine attempt to broaden and improve the general level of discourse here.

Thanks Enzl.....

I, for one, WOULD be interested in hearing the OP's thoughts and rationales for the Camry Hybrid purchase.

I'm going to guess a couple things come to mind.......

* Decent-sized car with class-leading fuel economy?

* Quiet, cushy, soft, almost Buick-like ride?

* Styling maybe even? (REMEMBER styling is subjective....)

* Decently-priced? (A fully, and I mean FULLY loaded hybrid I looked at at the auto show recently barely topped $31K)

If he was into the Lucerne......chances are the Altima Hybrid MIGHT have been just a bit too hard-edged? (re: sporty) And clearly Malibu and AURA hybrid, attractively-priced as they are.....are not in the same league as the full-on Camry Hybrid (versus their "mild" status.)

But....alas.....I don't think we'll hear back from him in this thread......

[daves87rs]

Don't forget......some of the people on here, like me and Enzl, who are EXTREMELY critical of General Motors.......are also some of it's biggest fans.......and want to see them prosper just as much as ANY of you......

"....we who love GM cars....." extends to people like us as well. Doesn't mean we won't criticize the product if we think it's deserving.......

Very true, O.C.

Sometimes it's nice to be reminded that....

It's like a large family, with a few crazy uncles thrown in....

[gm4life]

Clearly I struck a nerve. And as others have said my post was directed at a wide number of people, but you were included. You may not like the label "douche," and for all I know you may not actually be one...but the comment you made with regards to the OP was "douchey" as were many others' comments.

It's clear you have strong convictions, but you will not be endearing yourself to people who do not have the exact same viewpoint as yourself if you do not present your views with tact. The Camry may not be the best car on the market, but to automatically criticize the OP as you did implicitly says that he is 1. ignorant of his own needs and 2. ignorant of how to spend his own hard-earned money to buy a car that best meets his needs. That's insulting, and makes you look like a douche. I'm sure the OP is an intelligent person, who looked at several cars before deciding that the Camry is the one that best fits his needs at his price point.

Whether you agree with the OP or not, you should be asking him questions as to why he made the decision he did instead of flying off the handle and insulting him. Guess what? I bet he doesn't post around here much more as a direct result of the tone and content of the posts immediately following his thread. Congrats, you helped scare another person off who will now think that the GM fans are jerks.

^ I understand I will go over board from time to time. It is just hard for me to see people go over to the dark side. Very sad, because GM is on the verge of bringing out countless new trend setting and high quality products that will no doubt serve them well, new LaX (or whatever its called), Camaro, Silverado Hybrid, Traverse amoung others. Sorry I did get out of hand but I hope you could see where my anger was coming from. And I Dave would be a crazy uncle.

[Croc]

I understand I will go over board from time to time. It is just hard for me to see people go over to the dark side.

This is your problem right here. Toyota is not "the dark side." Frankly, the dark side is the kind of half-assed backwards groupthink that takes place in the RenCen responsible for the Aztek, 2003 Malibu, G6, Torrent, and any other half-baked, noncompetitive product GM produces after months of promises of "this one will be the one!"

Very sad, because GM is on the verge of bringing out countless new trend setting and high quality products that will no doubt serve them well

Dude, they've been promising this since the dawn of time, and with every new product cycle since this site was created in 2002 on Snitz. The only ones that have really delivered are the 2008 Malibu, the Lambdas, and the CTS. Everything else was an empty promise.

new LaX (or whatever its called), Camaro, Silverado Hybrid, Traverse amoung others.

And until I see, touch, and drive them, I'm going to assume whatever GM says about their "amazing luster" to be a load of bull&#036;h&#33;--because that's what history tells me. Frankly, not even my impressions matter. Until the sales numbers come in, a car cannot be certified as successful. And GM needs home runs NOW.

Sorry I did get out of hand but I hope you could see where my anger was coming from. And I Dave would be a crazy uncle.

No, I knew where you were coming from since you posted your original post. But I really do not see why anger is the emotion when someone buys a Toyota. I strongly dislike Toyota's for a variety of reasons, but anger is foreign to me in this situation.

[daves87rs]

This is your problem right here. Toyota is not "the dark side." Frankly, the dark side is the kind of half-assed backwards groupthink that takes place in the RenCen responsible for the Aztek, 2003 Malibu, G6, Torrent, and any other half-baked, noncompetitive product GM produces after months of promises of "this one will be the one!"

Dude, they've been promising this since the dawn of time, and with every new product cycle since this site was created in 2002 on Snitz. The only ones that have really delivered are the 2008 Malibu, the Lambdas, and the CTS. Everything else was an empty promise.

And until I see, touch, and drive them, I'm going to assume whatever GM says about their "amazing luster" to be a load of bull&#036;h&#33;--because that's what history tells me. Frankly, not even my impressions matter. Until the sales numbers come in, a car cannot be certified as successful. And GM needs home runs NOW.

No, I knew where you were coming from since you posted your original post. But I really do not see why anger is the emotion when someone buys a Toyota. I strongly dislike Toyota's for a variety of reasons, but anger is foreign to me in this situation.

While I agree with you on some points there Croc, I also see this as a "opinion" too...and you have some passion there too, my friend.

But, I do understand where you are coming from.

Adding my own thing here, my thinking with everything going on (Gas, economy,housing, etc..), GM is going to struggle for a while...I do see good (like adding to the CTS family), I also expect a few things just thrown together too...

[Croc]

While I agree with you on some points there Croc, I also see this as a "opinion" too...and you have some passion there too, my friend.

But, I do understand where you are coming from.

Adding my own thing here, my thinking with everything going on (Gas, economy,housing, etc..), GM is going to struggle for a while...I do see good (like adding to the CTS family), I also expect a few things just thrown together too...

What part was opinion? That the products I listed were described as half-baked and non-competitive? Those points are easily corroborated by numerous reviews and sales numbers.

It is also a fact that one of GM's biggest internal struggles is releasing competitive product that has not been dumbed-down by the group-think of executives and focus groups. Interior cost-cutting is the biggest issue, though lately GM seems to be doing better about that.

Yes, I do have some passion here on GM...after all, I am a GM fan. That said, it is hard to like this company sometimes, especially when they keep making the same mistakes year after year, and then wonder why the hell the product sits on lots. It really isn't that difficult to understand from a consumers' point of view, why the Toyota Camry has outsold the Malibu for years. The new Malibu, however, is damn good, and the fact that it has a 40% conquest rate, the majority of which being Camry trade-ins, is testament to that.

[daves87rs]

What part was opinion? That the products I listed were described as half-baked and non-competitive? Those points are easily corroborated by numerous reviews and sales numbers.

It is also a fact that one of GM's biggest internal struggles is releasing competitive product that has not been dumbed-down by the group-think of executives and focus groups. Interior cost-cutting is the biggest issue, though lately GM seems to be doing better about that.

Yes, I do have some passion here on GM...after all, I am a GM fan. That said, it is hard to like this company sometimes, especially when they keep making the same mistakes year after year, and then wonder why the hell the product sits on lots. It really isn't that difficult to understand from a consumers' point of view, why the Toyota Camry has outsold the Malibu for years. The new Malibu, however, is damn good, and the fact that it has a 40% conquest rate, the majority of which being Camry trade-ins, is testament to that.

While true, some people may feel different about some of GM products..

I don't think you want to tell my buddy that his G6 was half-baked, he thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread..

It just sucks that it took GM so long to realize that....and all these crazy things that are going on are not helping them either...

[vonVeezelsnider]

While true, some people may feel different about some of GM products..

This is a pretty fair explanation of why near a hundred thousand people will look at the Malibu and the Impala and decide to get the Impala.

Edited April 28, 2008 by vonVeezelsnider

[Croc]

This is a pretty fair explanation of why near a hundred thousand people will look at the Malibu and the Impala and decide to get the Impala.

Yes, because of "price."

The only objective reason to buy an Impala over a Malibu is if the Impala has a great deal that makes it a question of "which size car for essentially the same money?"

I don't think you want to tell my buddy that his G6 was half-baked, he thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread..

I'm curious as to why your buddy feels this way. Was it because he got a lot of car for his money? The reason I ask is because I've always wanted to like the G6, especially in coupe form. That said, I never can because of the cheap interior. I actually think the plood trim cheapens the interior more than if it were silver-painted plastic because the placement and application has always struck me as cheap.

I've heard it drives well, and the exterior styling is pretty sharp, but I demand a good interior, and while a step up from a Grand Am, the G6 just is not competitive when cross-shopped to the alternatives...unless you get a crazy deal on it.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Croc

[daves87rs]

Yes, because of "price."

The only objective reason to buy an Impala over a Malibu is if the Impala has a great deal that makes it a question of "which size car for essentially the same money?"

Well, it could be looks..(the "euroish" to "more traditional")

the ride ( floaty to kinda sporty)

HP (4 banger/ v6 to v6/v8)

Heck, even the name....

[Croc]

Well, I think the styling is actually fairly similar:

[daves87rs]

Well, I think the styling is actually fairly similar:

Not so much from the back...but from the the front, I'd have to agree with you there....

[daves87rs]

Yes, because of "price."

The only objective reason to buy an Impala over a Malibu is if the Impala has a great deal that makes it a question of "which size car for essentially the same money?"

I'm curious as to why your buddy feels this way. Was it because he got a lot of car for his money? The reason I ask is because I've always wanted to like the G6, especially in coupe form. That said, I never can because of the cheap interior. I actually think the plood trim cheapens the interior more than if it were silver-painted plastic because the placement and application has always struck me as cheap.

I've heard it drives well, and the exterior styling is pretty sharp, but I demand a good interior, and while a step up from a Grand Am, the G6 just is not competitive when cross-shopped to the alternatives...unless you get a crazy deal on it.

And the funny thing about this is, he traded in his 2000 Civic sedan for this....I expected him to rag on the G6.....

It's many different things...I think he did get a nice deal on it though...

A few things I can think of right now- He loves the space- it is very roomy, and he really likes the room in the back...he can put his hockey gear (his huge bags too) into the back seat.....

I likes his v6 too....he says it can be a bit loud, but he likes the power, and while it is not real sporty, it handles quite well in the city....and it gets pretty good gas milage too...

[vonVeezelsnider]

Both Cars have their own merits, The new Malibu is an awesome car, that has better dashboard materials than the Impala, but my allegiance has to slide to the car in my driveway. Here's a few merits from how I see it;

-Clear, Conservative Instruments, Interior (Malibu is more showy, I'm not really a fan of that)

-Fuel Economy (Malibu LT2 3.6L = 17MPG City, Our Impala 3.5L = 22MPG City)

-Upholstery (Malibu cloth feels cheap, I question how easy the UltraLux is to clean)

-Feels more traditional to drive, more solid (heavier doors, heavier steering, all register with me), some neat things that are well thought out like the Flip n' Fold back seat.

-Made in Canada

-Trunk Size (I cannot stress this enough. A 15 Cubic Ft. Trunk? Useless. Myself and the Family, all four of us took a week-long driving holiday this spring, when we got home, the trunk was packed so tight there was no space left. Fifteen cubic feet wouldn't nearly do the job that 18.6 is just capable of doing.)

[Croc]

Both Cars have their own merits, The new Malibu is an awesome car, that has better dashboard materials than the Impala, but my allegiance has to slide to the car in my driveway. Here's a few merits from how I see it;

-Clear, Conservative Instruments, Interior (Malibu is more showy, I'm not really a fan of that)

-Fuel Economy (Malibu LT2 3.6L = 17MPG City, Our Impala 3.5L = 22MPG City)

-Upholstery (Malibu cloth feels cheap, I question how easy the UltraLux is to clean)

-Feels more traditional to drive, more solid (heavier doors, heavier steering, all register with me), some neat things that are well thought out like the Flip n' Fold back seat.

-Made in Canada

-Trunk Size (I cannot stress this enough. A 15 Cubic Ft. Trunk? Useless. Myself and the Family, all four of us took a week-long driving holiday this spring, when we got home, the trunk was packed so tight there was no space left. Fifteen cubic feet wouldn't nearly do the job that 18.6 is just capable of doing.)

Exactly...and when rebates/incentives put the two cars in the same price range, then it becomes a "which size car for the same money" equation. If the Impala were a nicer car, with better materials, this would not be an easy, lateral comparison.

These two cars should not be priced so closely together. This is very similar to the CTS/STS problem--the CTS is infinitely nicer, nearly the same size, yet priced cheaper. The STS is supposed to be a larger, more expensive car, but it lacks the craftsmanship of the CTS. Hence, the STS will die soon.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Croc

[Camino LS6]

Lots to agree and disagree with in this thread.

But, since I don't care for any of the cars mentioned here very much, it all comes down to freedom of choice.

That choice being right or wrong, and under what criteria, is subject to interpretation.

I will say that given the choices on the market right now, the Camry hybrid seems an odd choice in this instance.

[The O.C.]

Well, I think the styling is actually fairly similar:

....but the proportions are MUCH better on the Malibu......and I think the Malibu rear seat roominess is far superior after sitting in both at the recent auto show......BUT I think the Impala interior dash/door panels are executed much more nicely, if not as outright stylish. Look at the cleanliness, fits, and lack of cutlines in the Impala versus the hodgepod Malibu....!

[The O.C.]

Both Cars have their own merits, The new Malibu is an awesome car, that has better dashboard materials than the Impala, but my allegiance has to slide to the car in my driveway. Here's a few merits from how I see it;

-Clear, Conservative Instruments, Interior (Malibu is more showy, I'm not really a fan of that)

-Fuel Economy (Malibu LT2 3.6L = 17MPG City, Our Impala 3.5L = 22MPG City)

-Upholstery (Malibu cloth feels cheap, I question how easy the UltraLux is to clean)

-Feels more traditional to drive, more solid (heavier doors, heavier steering, all register with me), some neat things that are well thought out like the Flip n' Fold back seat.

-Made in Canada

-Trunk Size (I cannot stress this enough. A 15 Cubic Ft. Trunk? Useless. Myself and the Family, all four of us took a week-long driving holiday this spring, when we got home, the trunk was packed so tight there was no space left. Fifteen cubic feet wouldn't nearly do the job that 18.6 is just capable of doing.)

Hmmm.....I think the Impala instruments look cartoonish (marking colors, font) while the Malibu, while showy, look much classier.

On fuel economy.....it's hard to compare. The Malibu with the 3.6L gives you far superior performance with much greater refinement, NVH, smoothness. To many people, that's worth a supposed drop in some fuel economy. (The '08 3.5L is listed at 18/29 on Chevy's website versus 17/26 for Malibu....not as big a difference as you claim above.)

Upholstery......I guess that's subjective.....I don't have a huge problem with either.

On being "traditional" to drive......that typical GM driving feel has been one thing that's sent people scampering to the imports....hence the Malibu's more import-oriented ride-and-handling setup.

Trunk size? Can't argue there.....but Malibu is MORE than competitive in the segment.

I'm glad you are happy with your Impala. That's really what matters. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a dinosaur who's time came-and-went a long time ago. For the market in general, Malibu is such a far superior choice.

[vonVeezelsnider]

The '08 3.5L is listed at 18/29 on Chevy's website versus 17/26 for Malibu....not as big a difference as you claim above.

I'm only going by the real world figures I'm getting when I drive the car from fill-up to fill up. From what I understand the EPAs for the Malibu V6 are a bit closer to real world.

[daves87rs]

I'm only going by the real world figures I'm getting when I drive the car from fill-up to fill up. From what I understand the EPAs for the Malibu V6 are a bit closer to real world.

The Impy that I drove for a few weeks with the 3.5 got between 20-24 city....sound close to what you got Veez....

[gm4life]

I don't consider the Torrent half baked either, it is a very impressive cross-over I like the interior textures and and the layout. It is very nice at the price point, it drives very nicely too. My neighbor had a 2004 Lexus ES and traded it in a 2008 Equinox LTZ AWD just a few weeks ago and she loves it. I asked her how she could go Lexus to Equinox and she said it was a very nice looking SUV, it road up higher and looked like a Lexus RX for 10,000 less and she couldn't find a good reason to spend the extra money. Besides she likes her Chevy's, but she did agree going from a Lexus to a Chevy sounds odd but she didn't consider it a step down. I was very happy needless to say. Her hubby is a doc and he always has a white loaded Suburban he currently as a 2007 LTZ in white with nav and all the fixings.

Edited April 29, 2008 by gm4life

[jcgable]

This thread is giving me a headache.

[daves87rs]

I don't consider the Torrent half baked either, it is a very impressive cross-over I like the interior textures and and the layout. It is very nice at the price point, it drives very nicely too. My neighbor had a 2004 Lexus ES and traded it in a 2008 Equinox LTZ AWD just a few weeks ago and she loves it. I asked her how she could go Lexus to Equinox and she said it was a very nice looking SUV, it road up higher and looked like a Lexus RX for 10,000 less and she couldn't find a good reason to spend the extra money. Besides she likes her Chevy's, but she did agree going from a Lexus to a Chevy sounds odd but she didn't consider it a step down. I was very happy needless to say. Her hubby is a doc and he always has a white loaded Suburban he currently as a 2007 LTZ in white with nav and all the fixings.

the LTZ Noxs are pretty nice....

[Intrepidation]

Not the one I sat it...fit `n Finish were poor and the materials overall were very cheap. The next one should be much better but the current leaves a lot to be desired. Anyway, we've kinda derailed the thread guys.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Dodgefan