Here's the new Buick

[InvictaMan]

Since we have a specific target in mind, let's look at the performance specs they have for their vehicles on their web page. Forgive the formatting, I just copied and pasted directly from the Lexus site.

Lexus LS

Eight-Speed Automatic Transmission, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering (VGRS) [LS 460 L], Direct Injection, 4.6-liter V8 Engine, Adaptive Variable Air Suspension (AVS), Electronic Power Steering, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Ultra-Low Emission

Lexus GS

Dual Variable Valve Timing, All-Wheel Drive (GS 350), Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System (GS 460), Dual Exhaust, 342-horsepower, 4.6-liter V8 or 3.5-liter V6, Eight-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic (GS 460), Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS), Ultra-Low Emission, Six-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic, Performance Brakes, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering

Lexus ES

Six-Speed Automatic Transmission, Independent Suspension, 3.5-liter 272-hp V6 Engine, Dual Exhaust, Ultra-Low Emissions, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes

Lexus IS

Direct Injection, Six-Speed Manual (IS 250 RWD), Performance Brakes, IS 350/3.5-liter 306-hp V6, IS 250/2.5-liter 204-hp V6, Six-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive (IS 250), Sport-Tuned Suspension, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Sequential Paddle Shifters, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Ultra-Low Emissions

Edited April 21, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Luchey]

I think its a beautiful car. Glad Buick if FINALLY pushing the styling envelope vs. being so vanilla.

[Northstar]

Since we have a specific target in mind, let's look at the performance specs they have for their vehicles on their web page. Forgive the formatting, I just copied and pasted directly from the Lexus site.

Lexus LS

Eight-Speed Automatic Transmission, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering (VGRS) [LS 460 L], Direct Injection, 4.6-liter V8 Engine, Adaptive Variable Air Suspension (AVS), Electronic Power Steering, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Ultra-Low Emission

Lexus GS

Dual Variable Valve Timing, All-Wheel Drive (GS 350), Active Power Stabilizer Suspension System (GS 460), Dual Exhaust, 342-horsepower, 4.6-liter V8 or 3.5-liter V6, Eight-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic (GS 460), Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS), Ultra-Low Emission, Six-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic, Performance Brakes, Variable Gear-Ratio Steering

Lexus ES

Six-Speed Automatic Transmission, Independent Suspension, 3.5-liter 272-hp V6 Engine, Dual Exhaust, Ultra-Low Emissions, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes

Lexus IS

Direct Injection, Six-Speed Manual (IS 250 RWD), Performance Brakes, IS 350/3.5-liter 306-hp V6, IS 250/2.5-liter 204-hp V6, Six-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive (IS 250), Sport-Tuned Suspension, Dual Variable Valve Timing, Sequential Paddle Shifters, Four-Wheel Disc Brakes, Ultra-Low Emissions

Clearly the IS and LS are not what Buick is competing against. The ES is a direct competitor to the LaCrosse; I am not sure if Buick really should compete with the GS either; that seems more like Cadillac territory to me. I'd like to see a Buick on Zeta to go after the RL, but the GS, 5er, E-Class are too expensive for Buick to compete against (more than $60k). As for the features of the ES; the LaCrosse should have it covered with the 3.6 DI and A6.

[InvictaMan]

How about this as a comparo:

Now tell me which you think looks dated and less desirable? I'll give Lexus the fact that they went with a production panorama roof (for those who prefer the view above instead of the road ahead). Oh, and get a look at that deck lid, looks about the same size opening. And please put the gas tank opening on the other side when the Buick goes into production.

Afterthought: When I saw the actual Invicta photos for the first time, I thought the seam on that hood looked a little big, not tight. Now that I compare the fit and finish of the seams on the Invicta in this shot (realizing of course that this is a concept and not production) to the ES in the other, the Invicta's are tighter than those of a Virgins Are Us group meeting. Very nice!

Edited April 22, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Paolino]

Granted, the Genesis is a vast improvement, but I think you give Hyundai way too much credit, especially in comparison with this car.

I don't think I give Hyundai too much credit--I think they deserve it all. Look at the Genesis... RWD, POWERFUL V8 engine, major luxury appointments. It is BEYOND the LaCrosse.

But I'm not trying to put the LaCrosse down; I truly think this is a spectacular car. When do we see the production version with actual specs? My guesses are:

CX/CXL: 3.6L 6A

Super: 3.6L DI 6A

Ambient lighting should be standard on all trims. I'm going to take a guess that heated/cooled seats will be optional on this car. Push button start, Hard Drive, Dual auto up/down windows for front--I believe Buick will treat this car nicely.

[InvictaMan]

Clearly the IS and LS are not what Buick is competing against. The ES is a direct competitor to the LaCrosse; I am not sure if Buick really should compete with the GS either; that seems more like Cadillac territory to me. I'd like to see a Buick on Zeta to go after the RL, but the GS, 5er, E-Class are too expensive for Buick to compete against (more than $60k). As for the features of the ES; the LaCrosse should have it covered with the 3.6 DI and A6.

I think Buick should offer competitive specs on this car that are on target with the ES, and the GS; a single car with trim and options levels that match two separate offereings from the competition, at a price point that will beat both and hit budget limitations according to option or level choices. Let's face it, Buick is not going to match the Lexus line-up car for car. This would actually work in Buick's favor as far as manufacturing and sales savings. I do think Buick needs a RWD flagship that competes with RL and LS (now there is a tough comparison) at a lower value price point. But they really need an IS competitor, the specs in the previous post illustrating that even the IS is above 4-cylinder. Buick is evolving into a different car company, we have to get over the mild crossovers with Cadillac. They will appeal to two different buyers and really, is Cadillac that insecure with their new image. They are supposed to be moving up in value to compete with the BMWs and Mercs.

After going back and reading this again, I just chuckled at the thought of folks being concerned about Buick taking sales from Cadillac. This is a good thing for the division that everyone thought was one foot in the grave. You go Buick!

Edited April 21, 2008 by InvictaMan

[InvictaMan]

I don't think I give Hyundai too much credit--I think they deserve it all. Look at the Genesis... RWD, POWERFUL V8 engine, major luxury appointments. It is BEYOND the LaCrosse.

Sorry Paolino, didn't mean to sound generally harsh toward your observation, I simply think that the Azera, though a great car, simply still is not going to be in the same class of build as the Invicta. The Genesis is getting there, but I still think it will pale in comparision to the Buick, if the Buick is manufactured as we see this concept. I'll give Hyundai credit, they have done well as a value point near luxury, and they have a huge distribution network, but I personally compare them to the "new" Buick like I would Chrysler. The Invicta will certainly get a V8 option in Super mode, sorry about the RWD. The Genesis styling and interior seem inferior so far. I am actually more excited about the AWD option for the Invicta. I'd love to trade out my 2003 Pilot utilibox for an AWD Invicta. I can borrow a friend's truck when I need to haul big stuff, lol.

Edited April 21, 2008 by InvictaMan

[SuperSport623]

does anybody think EPII is engineered with a possible V8 in mind? for future super versions, keeping a V8 might not hurt

[bowtie_dude]

I wonder if GM will break down and give it NAV?

Obviously. That interior is Nav-ready.

[PONTIAC06]

First of all, the car is absolutely gorgeous, and the interior is even better than the Enclave in my opinion.

Obviously. That interior is Nav-ready.

Althougth I think it would be stupid for them not to offer nav, just having a screen does not make it nav-ready...I don't see a nav option on the G8 and it has a big display screen like that...

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

does anybody think EPII is engineered with a possible V8 in mind? for future super versions, keeping a V8 might not hurt

Yes.

The original plan was for the N* replacement to have the ability to fit into Ep II. Now, I'm not sure if that was ever officially the plan, but the potential was there until GM made ignorant decisions.

[james614]

For those who have forgotten about Buick having a turbo 4 banger, I present a blast from the past, the 1987 Buick Skyhawk Turbo Hatch!

"One of the true VERY rare models of Turbo Buick. The Skyhawk hatchback was only made with a turbo from the middle of the model year in 86 and then in 87 with none built in 88. The 86 was with the 1.8 and the 87 was with the 2.0.

In 86 the turbo was an option, but not required, on the T Type.

In 87 you could order the T package and also the Turbo package as was available on the Regal. There were only 3,757 Sport Hatches built in 87 and the best guess is very few of them were optioned up to the T or the Turbo package.

So, I would think that was rare.

Curb weight is set at 2396 lbs and the motor at 165HP and 175 lb/ft torque. This is on quite low boost and timing. If you check out some "J" body sites you will find a few people having a bit of fun with these."

I remember seeing one in the Buick dealership my Uncle worked at. Gray with black interior. Pretty sharp but not many built.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Someone down the street from me has one of those...

But in all seriousnes, I'm not sure which one I like better, this or the CTS...

[turbo200]

Buick is evolving into a different car company, we have to get over the mild crossovers with Cadillac. They will appeal to two different buyers and really, is Cadillac that insecure with their new image. They are supposed to be moving up in value to compete with the BMWs and Mercs.

After going back and reading this again, I just chuckled at the thought of folks being concerned about Buick taking sales from Cadillac. This is a good thing for the division that everyone thought was one foot in the grave. You go Buick!

absolutely, the point is to move all the brands forward using exciting design and truly quality finished automobiles, like what europeans have been doing for years. with buick, each new move they make after this is pivotal in reshaping the brand. we've already seen what the chinese can achieve with ep II, now they will flesh the lineup with a premium compact car and a flagship for the over $40k price point. it remains to be seen what exciting possibilities lie ahead, suffice to say GM product planners are finally restoring some value to thier brands.

[maxximus1]

beautiful. hows cadillac gonna one-up this one?!

[ZL-1]

The 2.8 turbo sucks gas in the 9-3

Upgrade it with DI to get a 10% or 15% boost in fuel economy, use the non-turbo variant as the base engine for the CTS here in Europe. Offer both engine variants as fully equiped models: I think Buick should drastically simplify its trim levels, with lots of personalization options (colours, textures, and so on) but without the 3 or 4 trim levels they currently have.

[ToniCipriani]

I wonder if GM will break down and give it NAV?

At least the Chinese version will certainly get it. Hell they put one in an Optra.

[InvictaMan]

Here is a better look at what the Invicta will be competing with. This is the Lexus Future-Sedan (LF-S) that is illustrated on their web site. Considering that the ES is a thinly disguised Camry, they are obviously tooling up for its replacement. I think it still holds its own against this design.

Can you believe that Buick has yet to put anything on their web site about the Invicta Concept? They seriously need to look at their competitors sites and update theirs accordingly. Their potentail buyers are very web savy, and the Buick site looks like it was created in 1996. They are incredibly slow to get timely info up on the site and it is not nearly as dynamic as their foes. They are especially lax about future stuff, which I think would be important for a company that is rebuilding its image, and hopefully projecting one that will be around for a long time.

[Northstar]

I think Buick should offer competitive specs on this car that are on target with the ES, and the GS; a single car with trim and options levels that match two separate offereings from the competition, at a price point that will beat both and hit budget limitations according to option or level choices. Let's face it, Buick is not going to match the Lexus line-up car for car. This would actually work in Buick's favor as far as manufacturing and sales savings. I do think Buick needs a RWD flagship that competes with RL and LS (now there is a tough comparison) at a lower value price point. But they really need an IS competitor, the specs in the previous post illustrating that even the IS is above 4-cylinder. Buick is evolving into a different car company, we have to get over the mild crossovers with Cadillac. They will appeal to two different buyers and really, is Cadillac that insecure with their new image. They are supposed to be moving up in value to compete with the BMWs and Mercs.

After going back and reading this again, I just chuckled at the thought of folks being concerned about Buick taking sales from Cadillac. This is a good thing for the division that everyone thought was one foot in the grave. You go Buick!

The Alpha Cadillac will compete with the IS. Nothing that isn't Alpha-based would compete with it, so giving Buick an IS competitor simply doesn't work, IMO. I think the GS is much different than the LaCrosse. LaCrosse isn't supposed to be overly sporty, just a luxury sedan. GS and it's competitors (5er, A6, E-Class, eventually CTS) all focus on both sport and luxury (some moreso than others). The LaCrosse can compete for GS buyers who just want luxury and don't care about the sport part, but those buyers are probably looking at the ES, not GS anyways.

A perfect competitor for a Buick sedan above the LaCrosse would be the 300C, for example. Perhaps the new Lincoln RWD car, as well (MKsomething or other).

[InvictaMan]

The Alpha Cadillac will compete with the IS. Nothing that isn't Alpha-based would compete with it, so giving Buick an IS competitor simply doesn't work, IMO. I think the GS is much different than the LaCrosse. LaCrosse isn't supposed to be overly sporty, just a luxury sedan. GS and it's competitors (5er, A6, E-Class, eventually CTS) all focus on both sport and luxury (some moreso than others). The LaCrosse can compete for GS buyers who just want luxury and don't care about the sport part, but those buyers are probably looking at the ES, not GS anyways.

A perfect competitor for a Buick sedan above the LaCrosse would be the 300C, for example. Perhaps the new Lincoln RWD car, as well (MKsomething or other).

I thought the Alpha would be a 1 or 3 Series competitor. Shouldn't Cadillac stop worrying about Lexus and Acura and set their sites a bit higher? Those auto makers aspire to be what Cadillac should be reaching for right now. Then perhaps Cadillac wouldn't feel so threatened by Buick's rise to meet their former level. Buick was once considered the sporty luxury model, and Cadillac the luxury barges. Automobile companies have to change to meet the level of the competition, hence the evolution Cadillac has been making over the last several years. If Cadillac held the distinction of being GM's only luxury sport division, there would have never been a GS, or GSX, or GNX to set the precedent. I'm sure Cadillac enthusiasts have been thrilled by the depression of the Buick brand by GM, it has made their job much easier. But we are talking about divisions of the same parent company, so what ever is good for one is even better for the whole. It is Buick's turn to rise to meet the competition. As I see it, the Cadillac fans should be thrilled, because this will only lead to better Cadillacs. Sibling rivalry just splits families apart, and GM certainly cannot afford that right now. So what if there is crossover? The styles are different and sales are the ultimate goal.

Edited April 22, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Brougham-Holiday]

Its a nice car, but I feel its too bland to be a Buick. After a few years its going to blend into the road in a way the Buicks of the past (Riviera, Skylark) never did. I hope it doesn't look so short in person because it looks like they made a dressed up compact car.

I must admit I'm a traditionalist in terms of automotive style, but I don't see how this can be considered nearly as beautiful as the CTS or Enclave.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Its a nice car, but I feel its too bland to be a Buick. After a few years its going to blend into the road in a way the Buicks of the past (Riviera, Skylark) never did. I hope it doesn't look so short in person because it looks like they made a dressed up compact car.

I must admit I'm a traditionalist in terms of automotive style, but I don't see how this can be considered nearly as beautiful as the CTS or Enclave.

Cars are becoming so generic and homogenized, especially in this segment.

Thank the Japanese and their friends in the media for that. Creativity is no longer allowed, so everyone plays it safe with the same bland designs and the same bland colors for the same bland buyer.

This Buick is sexy, but not nearly as sexy as the Enclave IMO. Something got lost.

[ToniCipriani]

Can you believe that Buick has yet to put anything on their web site about the Invicta Concept? They seriously need to look at their competitors sites and update theirs accordingly. Their potentail buyers are very web savy, and the Buick site looks like it was created in 1996. They are incredibly slow to get timely info up on the site and it is not nearly as dynamic as their foes. They are especially lax about future stuff, which I think would be important for a company that is rebuilding its image, and hopefully projecting one that will be around for a long time.

Are you looking at the American site? This is a Chinese Buick release. Although I don't see anything on the Chinese Buick site either.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Cars are becoming so generic and homogenized, especially in this segment.

Thank the Japanese and their friends in the media for that. Creativity is no longer allowed, so everyone plays it safe with the same bland designs and the same bland colors for the same bland buyer.

This Buick is sexy, but not nearly as sexy as the Enclave IMO. Something got lost.

Yes 1000000000% in agreement here, I feel like they started with a great car (those sketches we saw last month were great) and then sent the plans to Toyota to water them down enough so all the original emotion was lost.

[ZL-1]

Are you looking at the American site? This is a Chinese Buick release. Although I don't see anything on the Chinese Buick site either.

Et voilá: http://www.buick.com/buzz/index.jsp?cmp=in...&evar1=0408

Edited April 22, 2008 by ZL-1

[Robert Hall]

Here is a better look at what the Invicta will be competing with. This is the Lexus Future-Sedan (LF-S) that is illustrated on their web site. Considering that the ES is a thinly disguised Camry, they are obviously tooling up for its replacement. I think it still holds its own against this design.

What is surprising is how similar the Lexus concept and the Buick concept look... though with RWD, the Lexus has better proportions....(the Buick would look better w/ RWD proportions--the front is so short and the body crossection too tall, IMHO).

[InvictaMan]

Are you looking at the American site? This is a Chinese Buick release. Although I don't see anything on the Chinese Buick site either.

Was refering to the NA site, but it is amazing how much more sophisticated the Chinese site is compared to the NA. No wonder the cars sell better there.

[InvictaMan]

Et voilá: http://www.buick.com/buzz/index.jsp?cmp=in...&evar1=0408

Man, you sure have to dig for that. Thanks for finding it. Their site is organized pitifully. Wondering? Should I sign up for the advisory board? I did for Enclave and felt like it was more of a publicity thing than something that actually made a difference. About all that came of it were a few snippet posts of comments they received, no real feedback or interaction.

I almost feel that they probably see more input from perusing here, and the C&G conversation is much more engaging.

And that eCityofStyle award is great for both Buick and Cadillac. This type of prestige, connected at the hip with the fashion industry, is something that would resonate strongly with potential New Buick buyers. Too bad it is lost in the jumble.

Edited April 22, 2008 by InvictaMan

[InvictaMan]

What is surprising is how similar the Lexus concept and the Buick concept look... though with RWD, the Lexus has better proportions....(the Buick would look better w/ RWD proportions--the front is so short and the body crossection too tall, IMHO).

I was thinking the same thing. I actually think the Buick is sexier and carries a lot more design content. The video says they created the design in 5 weeks, so I imagine the Lexus concept existed at that point and was definite homework. The lines along the sill are almost identical, though Lexus' are softer at the intersections. The site does not identify if this is an ES or GS replacement concept. There is a concept there for the LS as well.

Edited April 22, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Blake Noble]

Cars are becoming so generic and homogenized, especially in this segment.

Thank the Japanese and their friends in the media for that. Creativity is no longer allowed, so everyone plays it safe with the same bland designs and the same bland colors for the same bland buyer.

I read an interview with Henrik Fisker in a book I have where he made comments regarding his stance on this subject, which is really spot on in its assessment. He said, and I quote, "To me, great car design is the connection between proportion, surfaces, and the graphics. The proportions are usually given by engineering, which is why people say that most cars look the same in the same class. This is due to proportion, not the surfaces or the graphics. This is where many car companies are failing today, failing to make different and uniquely beautiful cars."

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I read an interview with Henrik Fisker in a book I have where he made comments regarding his stance on this subject, which is really spot on in its assessment. He said, and I quote, "To me, great car design is the connection between proportion, surfaces, and the graphics. The proportions are usually given by engineering, which is why people say that most cars look the same in the same class. This is due to proportion, not the surfaces or the graphics. This is where many car companies are failing today, failing to make different and uniquely beautiful cars."

It's also a product of capitalism.

The more we adopt capitalism as a global society, the more homogenized and safe/plain our choices will become.

You think it's bad now, just wait until the fuel cell cars start hitting the road en mass. I'm willing to bet that EVERYTHING will be appliance-like with absolutely no emotion by then.

[-Camaro-]

Its a nice car, but I feel its too bland to be a Buick. After a few years its going to blend into the road in a way the Buicks of the past (Riviera, Skylark) never did. I hope it doesn't look so short in person because it looks like they made a dressed up compact car.

I must admit I'm a traditionalist in terms of automotive style, but I don't see how this can be considered nearly as beautiful as the CTS or Enclave.

Too bland? Have you seen the LaCrosse it's replacing? It's WAAAYYYY more bland than this. I wouldn't consider this bland at all though. If it didn't have the sweep line, then yes.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Too bland? Have you seen the LaCrosse it's replacing? It's WAAAYYYY more bland than this. I wouldn't consider this bland at all though. If it didn't have the sweep line, then yes.

And the Century that LaX replaced was even worse,doesn't make the LaX a work of art. This is going to be just another "nice" car, and once the production model reaches show rooms with smaller wheels and decontented base models, its going to get lost even further. The sweep line is nice, but one line isn't enough to take on the competition, though Buick seems to think being a look alike will.

Whether Buick is copying Mercury and just selling fancy lesser models (Chevrolet v Fords) or Buick is copying the Japs building luxury cars without presence, it seems like Business as usual at Buick. I'm a hard core Buick fan, but I'm very disappointed in what Buick has given us.

[ZL-1]

Man, you sure have to dig for that. Thanks for finding it.

A link was on the Buick e-mail newsletter you can subscribe to at www.buick.com

[InvictaMan]

A link was on the Buick e-mail newsletter you can subscribe to at www.buick.com

Hmmm, I've been on that mailing list since the Enclave concept, but now that you mention it, I haven't gotten anything in a long time. Thanks.

[InvictaMan]

And the Century that LaX replaced was even worse,doesn't make the LaX a work of art.

And that Century was being sold until this year as the Regal in China. Go figure. I just went back and looked at the CLaX on their site, and upon looking again I realize how evolutionary this new Invicta/LaX/Whatever is — far better. Remember when everyone was gaga over the CLaX and complaining about our pitiful version. The exisiting CLaX is not all that anymore in comparison, IMO. The Invicta even looks better than the PA, which IMO is too much of a rebadge job. Yup, I know, I know...Zeta is its saving grace. I guess I'm saying, be happy, it is getting better in terms of what we were saying to Buick a few short years ago. Just keep talking and remember, they can't afford to spend money to tool a car that may be a hit or miss. I think they are giving us their best right now, in a package that is beautiful and still should have universal design appeal.

[thegriffon]

Here is a better look at what the Invicta will be competing with. This is the Lexus Future-Sedan (LF-S) that is illustrated on their web site. Considering that the ES is a thinly disguised Camry, they are obviously tooling up for its replacement. I think it still holds its own against this design.

Can you believe that Buick has yet to put anything on their web site about the Invicta Concept? They seriously need to look at their competitors sites and update theirs accordingly. Their potentail buyers are very web savy, and the Buick site looks like it was created in 1996. They are incredibly slow to get timely info up on the site and it is not nearly as dynamic as their foes. They are especially lax about future stuff, which I think would be important for a company that is rebuilding its image, and hopefully projecting one that will be around for a long time.

The LS-F was a preview of the current Lexus LS (although the name is mostly coincidence).

[thegriffon]

I think the 2.2 Turbo/6-speed is a really good idea for the car...lots of power and fuel economy. Then the higher trim level car can have the 3.6DI/6-speed.

There is not and never will be a 2.2 Turbo.

The 2.0 Turbo GM's preferred turbo family II engine, and even that has already been replaced on the low end by the new 1.6 Turbo.

[SuperSport623]

yea some of you on the board make up engine combos that sometimes confuse me...

[Robert Hall]

There is not and never will be a 2.2 Turbo.

The 2.0 Turbo GM's preferred turbo family II engine, and even that has already been replaced on the low end by the new 1.6 Turbo.

Who knows? They may do a 2.2 version of the 2.0. Do you work for GM Powertrain and have a definitive answer?

When someone uses a phrase like 'there is not and never will be' I automatically call BS...

Edited April 23, 2008 by moltar

[Paolino]

And that Century was being sold until this year as the Regal in China. Go figure. I just went back and looked at the CLaX on their site, and upon looking again I realize how evolutionary this new Invicta/LaX/Whatever is — far better. Remember when everyone was gaga over the CLaX and complaining about our pitiful version. The exisiting CLaX is not all that anymore in comparison, IMO. The Invicta even looks better than the PA, which IMO is too much of a rebadge job. Yup, I know, I know...Zeta is its saving grace. I guess I'm saying, be happy, it is getting better in terms of what we were saying to Buick a few short years ago. Just keep talking and remember, they can't afford to spend money to tool a car that may be a hit or miss. I think they are giving us their best right now, in a package that is beautiful and still should have universal design appeal.

Yeah, but at least their Regal had a luxury interior--a far cry from the interiors we got.

[InvictaMan]

The LS-F was a preview of the current Lexus LS (although the name is mostly coincidence).

Here is the clicker for the site:

http://www.lexus.com/fcv/

There is no complete description there for which vehicle the LF-S is projected toward, scale and design would point toward the mid-size range; however, the LF-Sh is most definitely the precursor for the new LS, with hybrid technology on board. And I know you folks are tired of hearing me say it, but they need to take a clear look at the LF-X, Buick needs a five-seater crossover to get improved gas mileage and handling in place for the future.

The exciting thing to think about is that Buick is now using virtual design technology (That Ford is plugging big time with their SUV), which means that they should be developing more concepts virtually, which means seeing more creativity and affordable dry runs on new ideas, without the expense of clay modeling and manufacturing.

Edited April 23, 2008 by InvictaMan

[InvictaMan]

Yeah, but at least their Regal had a luxury interior--a far cry from the interiors we got.

I'm with you there, though I don't remember the interior on their Regal. But the new car looks as if it is going to have an interior that is superior to both the LaX and CLaX. They're listening, and I hope they are hearing you on the wood Paolino.

[thegriffon]

You guys are paying too much attention to the wrong details. The exterior doesn't matter (well, relatively speaking and in the context of the market its in). As long as its classy, stately and isn't garish, its fine.

The detail everyone has seemingly overlooked so far, is this:

Thats pretty much production.

A few more photos (not renderings) are available now, including the interior. I have them on AutoReport if you don't want to hunt for them at GM.

Buick Invicta Concept Car

[InvictaMan]

A few more photos (not renderings) are available now, including the interior.

Cool, thanks. Mmmmm, that interior does look better in the flesh. The sequential shifter design is nice, almost looks manual. And it looks like the heat and cool seat switches are nicely placed on the console Paolino. The wood is in all the right places and not overdone. I was looking at the CGI of the interior and it looks as if there is a small line of ambient light running above the wood that sweeps the dash. I thought maybe it might be a chrome detail. The photo shows this area, but it is definitely not chrome and if ambient, is not lit. That would be a nice, toned down compromise from the Riviera interior. I thought it was a bit much. A buddy of mine said "how could you drive that car with that much light shining at you," my response was "Park."

I just want to personally thank Buick and their designers. It is obvious that they have been listening to those of us that admire the marque and want to see it rise to greater heights. There is so much in this concept that "is" what we asked for. Keep up the good work and we look forward to seeing what you can come up with next. I hope you realize that our critique here comes purely from love, we are excited and anxious.

Edited April 23, 2008 by InvictaMan

[Robert Hall]

I think it's going be a nice, competitive product for Buick. An ES-competitor sedan and an RX-competitor crossover with the Enclave. What's next?

[thegriffon]

Plenty of videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/GMnext

[Paolino]

I think it's going be a nice, competitive product for Buick. An ES-competitor sedan and an RX-competitor crossover with the Enclave. What's next?

Maybe an SC fighter that actually does the job without dropping off the face of the earth for a facelift--God, what are they waiting for (Lexus)?!

But next for Buick, we know, will be the LS-Fighter for Buick-it won't be able to compete, because Buick is not ready to be in that territory, but I mean it'll be larger than the LaCrosse (maybe around 200"), RWD, luxurious. Right now I have trouble calling it the LS fighter because Buick is not going to be ready to slap in a 5.7L V8 that gets almost 400hp, with an 8-speed tranny, an ottoman for the Little People, a self-parking system that Stevie Wonder could do better at... you get my point.

Give me 200-202", RWD, 6A, 3.6L DI base, NG V8, throw in some cool things like heating/massaging/cooling seats, 20-speaker surround sound audio, but just give it a little design inside and out, a little choice with some personal features and colors, remind people the quality has been there flawlessly for a LONG time, and BAM, instant seller.

I better stop now--I'm rambling and I think it's the Vicotini--I have no idea if this is just nonsense banter, or something legit.

[ehaase]

Who knows? They may do a 2.2 version of the 2.0. Do you work for GM Powertrain and have a definitive answer?

When someone uses a phrase like 'there is not and never will be' I automatically call BS...

Thegriffon has proven over the past 7 years or so that he deserves more respect than that.

[Robert Hall]

Thegriffon has proven over the past 7 years or so that he deserves more respect than that.

Like I said, I'm skeptical when I see a phrase like 'there is not and never will be'. Is he a GM insider? Remember, this is the internet...question everything.