Opel Insignia unceremoniously revealed a week early

[turbo200]

Well, the SRX has a touch screen for many of its controls, whereas the MB has labels on the screen, but you have to press the teeny tiny buttons off to the sides.

Also, it's the grouping of buttons. The 2001 M-Class has non-radio/entertainment functions placed right next to the radio. The SRX unit does not. By maintaining some logic to the button placement, and placing similar/related functions together, with similar/related functions having similar shapes/textures...it goes a long way.

The 01 M was, as I said, an interface that even after 6 years I don't have it all down. And don't get me started on the "sized, shaped, feel-alike" buttons on the center console that control such widely-varying functions as door locks, defog, and seat heaters, and child lock. All feel exactly the same; you must look down to know what's going on.

you're absolutely right. and this is more operation and general user-friendliness than layout per se. the buttons are still laid out in a logical organized pattern, and they're all basically in the same place. just thier use is much different. with the SRX, you're right again its use of less buttons around the entertainment center provide a more logical and accessible interface.

form over function in the MB, and I'll gladly take it that way. just a thought, it's still cooler to have the functions and features in your car, yes it's a bit of excess, but it's kind of the kind of tool to have excess in, i mean if you're gonna have a spaceship might as well go all the way, get all the buttons and features you can't use, either learn to use them or not, as a carmaker, I'm going to offer them to those that want it. the ones who don't will still buy my product on sheer desirability.

[turbo200]

the praise you read on some website doesn't compare to the constant references to great design in every Euro car review for every major mag. Regardless of the conspiracy theorists here who don't like those magazines, they are the best sellers and reflect the general buying public's opinion, or else we wouldn't have MB, BMW, Lexus at the top of the charts and climbing.

this is the issue. i can't beleive i'm still defending this perspective. i'll leave one last point. I am an admirer of that last gen Aurora, but it's interface again serves up the generic point about GM, thier designs are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, so a blue-haired spectacles-equipped lady can look and know instinctively how to use it. there's something to be said for that, but there's much more to be said for design flair, which is what the rest of the buying public cares for, especially in thier expensive cars [non-expensive cars=$20k and under]

[Croc]

you're absolutely right. and this is more operation and general user-friendliness than layout per se. the buttons are still laid out in a logical organized pattern, and they're all basically in the same place. just thier use is much different. with the SRX, you're right again its use of less buttons around the entertainment center provide a more logical and accessible interface.

form over function in the MB, and I'll gladly take it that way. just a thought, it's still cooler to have the functions and features in your car, yes it's a bit of excess, but it's kind of the kind of tool to have excess in, i mean if you're gonna have a spaceship might as well go all the way, get all the buttons and features you can't use, either learn to use them or not, as a carmaker, I'm going to offer them to those that want it. the ones who don't will still buy my product on sheer desirability.

But let's be honest here: all high-end navigation/radio units have the same features: AM/FM, CD(/Tape!), DVD, MP3, aux-in, treble, bass, balance, surround sound, programmable stations, RDS, navigation, etc.

So how is it the SRX can cram all these features into a better layout? The touch screen. Using radio favorites on the touch screen instead of using the phone number pad (Europe) to store radio favorites (USA) like the M-B.

My father has the SRX touchscreen radio setup in his DTS. Same general unit. It really is user-friendly. And it has a LOT of functions.

[Croc]

I am an admirer of that last gen Aurora, but it's interface again serves up the generic point about GM, thier designs are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, so a blue-haired spectacles-equipped lady can look and know instinctively how to use it. there's something to be said for that, but there's much more to be said for design flair, which is what the rest of the buying public cares for, especially in thier expensive cars [non-expensive cars=$20k and under]

The bolded part is patently false. I get compliments on the interior all the time, and this is 2008...8 years old and the interior still gets complimented regularly. Fit and finish isn't perfect, but the overall design is nice. There's some flair to it. And no, it definitely was not dumbed down for the blue hairs. In fact, my favorite aspects of it are the ones that differ strongly from the GM orthodoxy. The cruise control on its own stalk, wipers on their own stalk, the climate control interface is great...my only gripe about any aspect of the interface is that the backlighting is slowly going out, and replacing it is not easy.

[Drew Dowdell]

it's curious that at least IDrive has not affected sales, in fact BMW has only had increasing sales over the last few years, goes to show there are many other reasons BMW buyers will still choose thier brand.

by the way, your image shows up as nothing. ironic. even if it was there, it'd probably wouldn't refute my basic point on buttons on a dash, making a car look high end by thier quantity, function, and design...

Interesting point you have there... it seems familiar... you say that people buy BMWs despite their replacement of all those buttons with iDrive.....?

it's almost as if that was precisely what I was saying....

the number of buttons does not matter and even a craptastic system like iDrive doesn't hinder sales.

[Drew Dowdell]

the praise you read on some website doesn't compare to the constant references to great design in every Euro car review for every major mag. Regardless of the conspiracy theorists here who don't like those magazines, they are the best sellers and reflect the general buying public's opinion, or else we wouldn't have MB, BMW, Lexus at the top of the charts and climbing.

this is the issue. i can't beleive i'm still defending this perspective. i'll leave one last point. I am an admirer of that last gen Aurora, but it's interface again serves up the generic point about GM, thier designs are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, so a blue-haired spectacles-equipped lady can look and know instinctively how to use it. there's something to be said for that, but there's much more to be said for design flair, which is what the rest of the buying public cares for, especially in thier expensive cars [non-expensive cars=$20k and under]

Edmunds is now "just some website"?

[turbo200]

Interesting point you have there... it seems familiar... you say that people buy BMWs despite their replacement of all those buttons with iDrive.....?

it's almost as if that was precisely what I was saying....

the number of buttons does not matter and even a craptastic system like iDrive doesn't hinder sales.

again, you just love parsing words. all I'm saying is simple, buttons add a dash of technical superiority, class, and uniqueness as many designers go to lengths to differentiate the interface controls.

let's bring this back to where it belongs. my initial comments were simple design analysis. keeping an elegant balance, making things seem necessary and purposeful, artful curves and lines, using the right trim and coloring, these are the focus of a good interior designer. though this interior lacks the sheer quantity of buttons of the insignia interior, it still has buttons that look authoratitive and purposeful and they immediately draw attention. the interior is donned in class and elegance, it's full of grace.

[turbo200]

The bolded part is patently false. I get compliments on the interior all the time, and this is 2008...8 years old and the interior still gets complimented regularly. Fit and finish isn't perfect, but the overall design is nice. There's some flair to it. And no, it definitely was not dumbed down for the blue hairs. In fact, my favorite aspects of it are the ones that differ strongly from the GM orthodoxy. The cruise control on its own stalk, wipers on their own stalk, the climate control interface is great...my only gripe about any aspect of the interface is that the backlighting is slowly going out, and replacing it is not easy.

well, for one, my comments are about the design of the interface, not the overall design of your Aurora interior. so when I say dumbed down and design flare, I am referring to the interface of every GM car, which is very basic, very easy to use, very forthright. do those sounds like words of praise? [backup point to an earlier argument I made against oldsmoboi]

on another note, I agree Aurora has a nice interior, in its time it had among the highest quality controls and finish of any GM product. judging it today it has stood the test of time as a nice interior, and the only flaw I can find is in shapes and lines....general design template not so great. but even still, it was a good interior from any carmaker for the time.

[Camino LS6]

All this talk over buttons?

Isn't the whole car about to debut?

Buttons (or the lack of them) don't/doesn't mean a damn thing to me on this car as I'll never see them. The exterior sends me running in the other direction before I'd get a chance to even glance inside.

[Blake Noble]

Upon viewing it for yet another time, I do not like the hockey-stick side creases that you see in the lower portion of the car. I cannot quite place my finger on exactly why, though. I suppose they fight against the flow of the side sculpting of the car, for starters.

And I do not like how the headlamps meet with the cutline of the hood, either.

[Robert Hall]

Upon viewing it for yet another time, I do not like the hockey-stick side creases that you see in the lower portion of the car. I cannot quite place my finger on exactly why, though. I suppose they fight against the flow of the side sculpting of the car, for starters.

And I do not like how the headlamps meet with the cutline of the hood, either.

Upon closer viewing, the creases seem to be an afterthought, and it's odd to see a detail like that in the door like that... I like the taillights and lower declkid area, but the upper decklid and side decklid cutlines are derivative from the 5-series...I see alot of Malibu meets Camry in the front end. The profile is the strongest angle, IMHO...

[Camino LS6]

Upon closer viewing, the creases seem to be an afterthought, and it's odd to see a detail like that in the door like that... I like the taillights and lower declkid area, but the upper decklid and side decklid cutlines are derivative from the 5-series...I see alot of Malibu meets Camry in the front end. The profile is the strongest angle, IMHO...

I don't know.

From the side it looks like a melted Aura with a pointless "hockey stick" styling element added for no good reason.

[Nick]

So...would somebody like to explain to me why this received so much praise upon its debut...

...but this hasn't?

It is identical in every way (save for the colors and lack of nav on the production shots...I'm sure the nav will look exactly like the concept's.)

Like I said before, I did not care for the concept's interior at all. I never understood the praise it received...I find it ironic how it is being dismissed now...

[Nick]

Even the rear...

It looks exactly as expected...If anything it even exceeds expectations in terms of going from concept to reality (and 2-door to 4-door)...

Edited April 17, 2008 by Nick

[SuperSport623]

i guess im in the minority thinking it looks good!

[VenSeattle]

Nick... I want to "Thank You" for making several eat crow

[§carlet §wordfish]

I can't believe no one realized how close this this was going to be to the Calibra concept (which everyone seemed to like.)

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=18500

Did two more doors really make it that much worse?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Even the rear...

I'm sure if this had Holden's name on it instead of Opel, many people would be singing a different song. In fact I may suggest to Mr. Burns that we leak the wrong brand names on future products to see the true reactions of der vorld. :AH-HA_wink:

[Intrepidation]

I can't believe no one realized how close this this was going to be to the Calibra concept (which everyone seemed to like.)

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=18500

Did two more doors really make it that much worse?

The difference for me is the lower roof line and more aggressive front end. If the production version had these features I'd be happier with it. I liked the interior then and do now. It looks expensive and like a pleasant place to be.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Dodgefan

[ocnblu]

A RWD chassis would change my perception of the car.

[Drew Dowdell]

ugh... EVERYthing has to be RWD to be any good?

The Aura, if large enough, would make a decent Aurora replacement. Remember, regardless of our thoughts on the matter, there are people out there who will never buy RWD. I will agree with you that it doesn't make sense... but that is just the way it is. My mother will only ever buy FWD cars because they are better in the snow........

...... she lives in Miami.

[Robert Hall]

ugh... EVERYthing has to be RWD to be any good?

The Aura, if large enough, would make a decent Aurora replacement. Remember, regardless of our thoughts on the matter, there are people out there who will never buy RWD. I will agree with you that it doesn't make sense... but that is just the way it is. My mother will only ever buy FWD cars because they are better in the snow........

...... she lives in Miami.

I think it's more out of lack of choice than a conscious RWD vs FWD decision for most buyers...I see a ton of FWD generics here in Phoenix, where there is no rational reason to choose FWD over RWD. But since probably 95% of the sub-$35K mainstream cars on the market are FWD, that's what the mainstream buyers drive..

[Drew Dowdell]

I think it's more out of lack of choice than a conscious RWD vs FWD decision for most buyers...I see a ton of FWD generics here in Phoenix, where there is no rational reason to choose FWD over RWD. But since probably 95% of the sub-$35K mainstream cars on the market are FWD, that's what the mainstream buyers drive..

and I think the cause of that is the Northeast and Mid-west. Since people in Phoenix and Miami will obviously still buy FWD vehicles, there is the incentive for the automakers to produce just FWD vehicles to suit the Northerners since the Southerners still buy them.

GM losing Camino and 68 as potential Insignia customers <though neither would likely buy a Saturn regardless> is a much smaller loss than losing a good chunk of the potential AltiCamcord market.

[Cory Wolfe]

Looking at it more, it's growing on me. I quite like the interior, but something about the exterior is still off. I know I never liked that 'hockey-stick' on the side, though I believe its something more. Proportions aren't spectacular, either. As well, the front fascia is somewhat bland. I guess those three things are my issues. It doesn't look bad to me, unlike others, it's just not quite right.

Edited April 17, 2008 by blackviper8891

[Blake Noble]

It doesn't look bad to me, unlike others, it's just not quite right.

Exactly.

[DetroitNut90]

I'm sure if this had Holden's name on it instead of Opel, many people would be singing a different song. In fact I may suggest to Mr. Burns that we leak the wrong brand names on future products to see the true reactions of der vorld. :AH-HA_wink:

Even if this was to sport a Holden badge, it would be called-down for being the generic blob with a great-looking interior that it is. I don't think anyone believes the addition of a Holden lion to the hood, hatch, and steering wheel of a Daewoo Kalos makes it any better of a car.

It doesn't look bad to me, unlike others, it's just not quite right.

[Camino LS6]

and I think the cause of that is the Northeast and Mid-west. Since people in Phoenix and Miami will obviously still buy FWD vehicles, there is the incentive for the automakers to produce just FWD vehicles to suit the Northerners since the Southerners still buy them.

GM losing Camino and 68 as potential Insignia customers <though neither would likely buy a Saturn regardless> is a much smaller loss than losing a good chunk of the potential AltiCamcord market.

Have to call BS on this one as well as PCS' post.

- I never said anything about the drive wheels on this car.

- I've praised the Aura for its looks and overall execution despite the fact that I will likely never be in this market. But to replace that car with an ugly pile like this thing seems a step backwards to me.

- The Insignia could wear a Chevy, Pontiac, or Holden badge and it would still receive a failing grade from me. It is a frumpy, lumpy, japanese-looking design with bad proportions, and no badge can fix that.

- I'm not a big interior critic, and this one looks "fine" to me. Nothing exciting, mind you, but passable. It is just the exterior that I find to be hideous at best. Nothing about it says "worth more than sticker" like the Aura currently does.

Bottom line: It isn't "gotta have" in any way ,shape, or form. It is not an improvement over the car it is intended to replace. Like the new Vue, it is a clean miss vs. the previous version.

[Drew Dowdell]

Have to call BS on this one as well as PCS' post.

- I never said anything about the drive wheels on this car.

- I've praised the Aura for its looks and overall execution despite the fact that I will likely never be in this market. But to replace that car with an ugly pile like this thing seems a step backwards to me.

- The Insignia could wear a Chevy, Pontiac, or Holden badge and it would still receive a failing grade from me. It is a frumpy, lumpy, japanese-looking design with bad proportions, and no badge can fix that.

- I'm not a big interior critic, and this one looks "fine" to me. Nothing exciting, mind you, but passable. It is just the exterior that I find to be hideous at best. Nothing about it says "worth more than sticker" like the Aura currently does.

I never said you did. However I do know that you'd never buy anything FWD with the possible exception of an HHR SS. In short, it could be a retro looking El Camino clone, but if it was FWD you wouldn't buy it. That was the point I was making.

[Camino LS6]

I never said you did. However I do know that you'd never buy anything FWD with the possible exception of an HHR SS. In short, it could be a retro looking El Camino clone, but if it was FWD you wouldn't buy it. That was the point I was making.

Oh, I understand.

If I had made such assertions in this thread then the criticism would be completely valid.

I won't deny that for a minute.

But, in this case, my objections have nothing to do with badge or drive wheels or my personal preferences . My objections aren't emotionally charged in any way, I just see this car as a big mistake. Saturn could really use a nameplate with a consistently good rep, and I think that this car (as an Aura) sinks that possibility.

[Camino LS6]

Let me put it another way.

I can see why someone would choose the current Aura over the Camry, but I can't say the same for this new one. The current Aura is much better looking than a Camry - the Insignia just isn't.

[Drew Dowdell]

Let me put it another way.

I can see why someone would choose the current Aura over the Camry, but I can't say the same for this new one. The current Aura is much better looking than a Camry - the Insignia just isn't.

I was more using you as a RWD only example.

I actually find the Insignia to be more attractive than the current Aura, which in itself is more attractive than the Accord Sedan <I like the coupe> and Camry.

To me, it looks like what would have happened if you took a BMW, Benz, and previous generation Passat and combined them. No, it's not an '08 CTS, but in it's market it doesn't need to be.

[Camino LS6]

I was more using you as a RWD only example.

I actually find the Insignia to be more attractive than the current Aura, which in itself is more attractive than the Accord Sedan <I like the coupe> and Camry.

To me, it looks like what would have happened if you took a BMW, Benz, and previous generation Passat and combined them. No, it's not an '08 CTS, but in it's market it doesn't need to be.

In that case we simply disagree about the looks of this car.

I see it and the new Vue as complete styling failures, which disappoints me.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well, you know what I always say... The Devil is in the details and apparently not enough of the details transferred for the car to be attractive to 90% of the people here.

As for putting Holden on the car, GO AHEAD, if you'll remember correctly I HATED the G8 when I first saw it too.

[Camino LS6]

Well, you know what I always say... The Devil is in the details and apparently not enough of the details transferred for the car to be attractive to 90% of the people here.

As for putting Holden on the car, GO AHEAD, if you'll remember correctly I HATED the G8 when I first saw it too.

I don't remember ever commenting on the concept, but I'd say that all the good bits got lost in translation. All the design cues are shallower on the production car - it reminds me of the letdown of G6 concept to production, leaves the same bad taste in my mouth.

[Blake Noble]

I'm sure if this had Holden's name on it instead of Opel, many people would be singing a different song. In fact I may suggest to Mr. Burns that we leak the wrong brand names on future products to see the true reactions of der vorld. :AH-HA_wink:

It would not change my feelings about it in the least bit. If the grille wore a Opel or a Holden or even a Toyota logo, I would still say that it is a nice design mildly marred by a few conflicting details (regarding the exterior).

[turbo200]

More shots are up at autoblog

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/17/officia...ignia-revealed/

More shots, official shots from GM are up at autoblog, giving us slightly different perspectives highlighting some details more than before. I really like the character lines and definition in the front end. the sides also have great surfacing, great definition and the lines are interesting. It's biggest problem is distinctiveness, or maybe that won't be as big an issue. this may play to a market, or it may not be what saturn needs to gain recognition and credibility. nonetheless, this won't fail to impress. it's still a well designed car. additionally, in person it may come across as more distinct. i think a potential downfall is by the time it does come out it will seem usual.

many people here are overreacting, similar to what happened with the Malibu and G8. Both of those cars, along with Silverado have great attention to detail that works better in person. There is nothing hideous about this car. Would I prefer to see more distinctive caracitures? In the G8's case, yes, and for the Insignia. But this is still a good basic design, that will help push Saturn's image upscale. It is also much better resolved than Aura, much more unique. the Aura's most distinctive and good looking feature that everybody here is responsive to is the grille and front headlights, and it has a great stance, so people react to that. the rest of it is at best derivative and also not totally upscale.

[turbo200]

I think it's to GM's detriment to become so universal in thier design. as aatbloke and others here have voiced, this design trends towards innocuous and it does share a lot with others, especially in the front end. the malibu and this could easily be mistaken, I fear. perhaps invicta will suffer in the same way. on one note it's good for GM to unify thier design and have more common, strong, good themes. but they must still look different. headlight and grille shapes that are not truly distinct are not a good thing. the same with following the same theme all across the board. i mean with this and malibu we now have two very athletic, basically sports sedans in design, as has been well defined by BMW. invicta may also look 'too athletic', it will have a ready to pounce attitude and stance, that is less fitting for Buick's theme. velite was athletic and trim, but it was bent towards soft big and luxurious, especially the stance translated this and this was an important part of Buick, they're relaxed strength.

[Robert Hall]

The more I see of it, the more I like it...very modern and European..should do well as a Saturn. I esp. like the greenhouse, taillights and rear fascia..

[SuperSport623]

same way i feel.. the more i see, the more i like!

[Guest aatbloke]

Here's the Vauxhall model sporting the new V-less grille and new badge. The Mondeo and Passat (once again) have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It looks very pieced together, like one team designed the nose (Or just bolted it on from a Malibu) another team designed the awkward greenhouse and another team designed the rest of the body. They tried to make the car look smaller by "bolting down" the rear, but it just looks melted and poorly designed.

Wow, they even ripped the wheel design off from Saturn... Is GME really this bankrupt of ideas?

Edited April 18, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Camino LS6]

The second batch of pictures help somewhat, but I remain unconvinced.

[Blake Noble]

My opinion is unchanged.

[Guest aatbloke]

The second batch of pictures help somewhat, but I remain unconvinced.

Same here. The UK was the Vectra's largest market because of the sheer size of the company car market here, and Vauxhall bosses expect the Insignia to be the same way. In three to four years you'll find these on used car lots for £6K.

Edited April 18, 2008 by aatbloke

[Guest aatbloke]

It looks very pieced together, like one team designed the nose (Or just bolted it on from a Malibu) another team designed the awkward greenhouse and another team designed the rest of the body. They tried to make the car look smaller by "bolting down" the rear, but it just looks melted and poorly designed.

Wow, they even ripped the wheel design off from Saturn... Is GME really this bankrupt of ideas?

Actually European pedestrian anti-impailing laws determine the roundness and softness of many European front-end designs these days. Personally I see barely any resemblance to the Malibu whatsoever.

Edited April 18, 2008 by aatbloke

[Northstar]

I agree that it grows on you. At first I didn't like the headlights, but there kind of cool after you get used to them. The character line in the rear reminds me of the Altima somehwhat, though it is more aggressive than the Altima's. It definitely has a very European flair about it, and it looks more expensive than what it will likely cost. It wouldn't look out of place with a bunch of $45k cars sitting next to it; that doesn't mean it looks amazing, just looks expensive.

[Camino LS6]

I agree that it grows on you. At first I didn't like the headlights, but there kind of cool after you get used to them. The character line in the rear reminds me of the Altima somehwhat, though it is more aggressive than the Altima's. It definitely has a very European flair about it, and it looks more expensive than what it will likely cost. It wouldn't look out of place with a bunch of $45k cars sitting next to it; that doesn't mean it looks amazing, just looks expensive.

Your post just made me realize that I dislike this car in the same way I dislike a Lexus SC, and to a lesser extent, the G6 vert. All three have that indistinct, melted look about them.

EDIT: The new S class Benz gives me the same negative vibe: cars for people with more money than taste. Expensive, but unpleasant.

[Blake Noble]

At first I didn't like the headlights, but there kind of cool after you get used to them.

My problem with the headlamps would be how they meet with the cutline of the hood after you see that particular panel gap run uninterrupted for the entire length of the central section of the front fascia. (This sort of "pie cut" hood was executed correctly on the Malibu as the cutline did not touch any design element of the fascia on that car, and left them uninterrupted, which is one of the main underlying reasons why you attempt such a design element in the first place.) The lighting elements are pretty interesting, however.

Edited April 18, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Intrepidation]

The second batch of photos certainly do help. It looks less awkward now. That being said the front end is still rather soft and watered down. I hope there is a VXR version that makes it over hear as a Red Line, even if it is just an appearance package, that adds some aggression to the front end.

One thing I noticed is that they were apparently inspired by the last gen Camry, as the lower character line is a direct flip of the one on the Camry.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I love all the EP IIs, they are like my children, just like the Kappas were when I was at Wilmington. :AH-HA_wink:

Hey FOG, in case you don't know it, Saturn is Opel, so how can Opel rip something off of Saturn, they are one in the same!

Anyway, Autoblog says the Insignia notch and hatchback will debut July 22, 2008 at the London Motor Show and hit showrooms starting in November. The Insignia was developed at GM Europe's International Technical Development Center in Rüsselsheim, Germany, which also is home to its production. The Rüsselsheim facility is one of the most advanced car plants in the industry. I'm going to try and stop by that show, I will be starting my vacation then, so on my return to the USA I will make a pit stop in London, I've never been to that auto show, I wonder if the Queen goes?

Edited April 18, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S