2009 Buick Official Changes

[The O.C.]

The Lucerne replacement is still 2 years or more away..the idea of GM having a car in 2010 with a pushrod 6 and a 4spd automatic is mind-blowing.

The idea of GM having a car in 2008 with a pushrod V6 and a 4spd automatic is mind-blowing.......

[Robert Hall]

The idea of GM having a car in 2008 with a pushrod V6 and a 4spd automatic is mind-blowing.......

Yes..it's like they are stuck in 1992 or so..

[Drew Dowdell]

I would think so.....however, GM is having problems making the HF V6 very fuel efficient.......why is it that seemingly everyone else can build a competitive, modern, DOHC 24-valve V6 that gets decent fuel economy numbers.....but GM can't....?

With 34,000 miles, I still only average between 17-19mpg in mixed driving in my CTS 3.6L....and that's WITH a manual tranny......long highway cruises at 80-90mph only get me around 22-23mpg.....

again, you are an exception. My CTS pulled a reliable 27-28 highway.

If anything, look at the efficiency of the Lambdas. They are heavier and less aerodynamic, but they have some of the best efficiency out there for something their size..... and they're using the HF3.6

Maybe it isn't the engine... maybe it's in the gearing?

[Drew Dowdell]

The idea of GM having a car in 2008 with a pushrod V6 and a 4spd automatic is mind-blowing.......

There are other cars out there with 4-speed standard and the AltiCamCords had them standard in the past 5 years. The Altima as recently as 2006.

So.... stop with the "OMG GM IS TEH SUZXORS!!! THEY SHOULDA HAD 6_SPEEDS IN LIKE 83!!!!eliventy!!@#!!!!!"

[pow]

Then that doesn't bode well for 3.9L fuel-efficiency in the large Lucerne, does it....?

The 15/22 mpg G6 convertible is geared for acceleration (3.69:1 final drive). With a different ratio, the 3.9 would likely get better FE than with the 3800.

Impala LTZ 3.9

3729 lbs

3.29:1

18/28 mpg

Lucerne CX 3800

3761 lbs

2.86:1

16/25 mpg

The Impala LTZ does have AFM, which the Lucerne won't have, but perhaps it will come with the Impala LT's 2.86 final drive.

[gm4life]

My brothers with a 3900 VVT AFM V6 is listed at 27 or 28 mpg I believe. The 3900 I thought had alot of guts and he said the gas milage has been pretty good.

[The O.C.]

If anything, look at the efficiency of the Lambdas. They are heavier and less aerodynamic, but they have some of the best efficiency out there for something their size..... and they're using the HF3.6

The Enclave I had as a rental averaged 14mpg while I had it.....not exactly steller.....

.....but then again, I don't expect much from ANY CUV that weighs 5,000lbs.....

[ponchoman49]

Your numbers are off. According to the chevy website, the 3900 with AFM gets 17/25 in the Impala.

EDIT: I'm very confused. I see where you got your numbers... but if you click on the actual link to the 3900 engine, it says 17/25 for gas, 13/20 for E85. If you click on Model Overview, it shows 17/25 for the 3900. I think the 18/28 is a typo to be honest.

My numbers are what I saw on actual car window stickers here in Upstate, NY. It's the websites that are in error because that 17/25 rating for the 3900 Impala was a preproduction estimate in 2007. I have driven all of the above cars whether they be weekend rentals or cars my friends have owned. The Lucerne 3800 seems to be slightly underated as I saw 18-19 in city driving and 27 or so on the open road. My buddy has owned two 3900 Impalas, one 06 and one 07 that was sadly totaled in a bad accident. The 06 would average about 23-25 MPG in 50/50 mix and a few highway trips saw 27. His 07 with AFM

averaged about the same MPG in 50/50 driving but climbed to 28-29 on pure trips. The AFM engine felt about the same at the non AFM 06 engine for NVH characteristics but one interesting thing was the RPM redline was reduced to 5850 instead of 6250 hence the reduction from 242 HP to 233 HP. The 2007/2008 Impala 3500's I rented averaged 26-27 MPG in 50/50 work and 32 pure highway, the LaCrosse 3800 returned 24 average and 29 highway in a 2007 rental. I also had a 2006 LaCrosse CX rental with the same 3800 series III but it used the lazier 2.86:1 axle compared to the 07 cars 3.05:1 and it got over 30 on pure highway driving. So my theory holds that the 2009 Lucerne with the AFM 3900 and lower 2.93:1 gears is going to be around what the current Impala 3900 with it's 18/28 rating obtains. I'm going to hazard a guess at 17/27.

2008 Lucerne 3800 16/25

2008 Impala 3900 18/28

2008 Impala 3500 18/29

2008 LaCrosse 3800 17/28

[ponchoman49]

The 15/22 mpg G6 convertible is geared for acceleration (3.69:1 final drive). With a different ratio, the 3.9 would likely get better FE than with the 3800.

Impala LTZ 3.9

3729 lbs

3.29:1

18/28 mpg

Lucerne CX 3800

3761 lbs

2.86:1

16/25 mpg

The Impala LTZ does have AFM, which the Lucerne won't have, but perhaps it will come with the Impala LT's 2.86 final drive.

Gearing with the old 4 speed automatic is where GM gets into so much trouble. To make the G6 convertible pull better off the line they install an agressive 3.69:1 ratio which brings highway RPM's up and mileage down. Note that this same 3900/4 speed auto/3.69:1 gear ratio in the old Malibu SS and G6 GTP was only rated 18/26 on the old ratings system. The 15/22 rating is rediculously low and very embarrassing to say the least. It makes the 3.6/6 speed auto look good at 17/26 in other G6 models. I'm really surprised they offer this combo in the G6 convertible.

On the 2009 Lucerne, it's 3900 engine will be teamed to the same 4T65 tranny as the Impala but with 2.93:1 gears straight from the Impala SS, GP GXP and the older Supercharged 3800 engined cars of yore. I'm going to guess mileage at 17/27.

[The O.C.]

There are other cars out there with 4-speed standard and the AltiCamCords had them standard in the past 5 years. The Altima as recently as 2006.

So.... stop with the "OMG GM IS TEH SUZXORS!!! THEY SHOULDA HAD 6_SPEEDS IN LIKE 83!!!!eliventy!!@#!!!!!"

GOD....we are talking about a $30K "premium" Buick sedan......!

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I just remarked in another post, but didn't the 2000-05 Impala with the 3400 V-6 (if not 3800) get like 31-32 highway MPG? That's pretty awesome for a large car, and most were base models, likely sold with the 3400 V-6. But 16/22, that's about par or less than a Buick Roadmaster or other B-Body with the 350 V-8-for a lousy mid-size, front-drive car that's kind of ugly and all around awful, that's just another black eye for a car that has no or very few advantages (the Pontiac G6 I'm referring to).

[VenSeattle]

GOD....we are talking about a $30K "premium" Buick sedan......!

But it's still with 300hp! I'd pick the interior materials over the Camry. The transmission also shifts like butter and it beats out other $30k midsize sedans in performance. AND Sorry, but magnetic ride control on the Super appears to all but compensate for the dated platform in ride quality. If someone wants to bitch about length vs interior dimensions, it's only 3-4" longer than the Accord, but beats/matches it in many dimensions. Not really a supportable argument considering how long the w-platform has been around. The LaCrosse Super is worth the price. The other trim levels with the 3800... not so sure.

When you're settled in Vegas, take the Super out for a spin... it might win you over as an over-achiever and perfect for a daily driver.

[Paolino]

Honestly, it still boggles my mind that they do certain things the way they do...

For example, dual zone auto climate control is standard on the base LaCrosse, yet it's not standard on the Lucerne. Tilt/Telescopic STILL isn't standard on the Lucerne, yet it is on the base LaCrosse.

Just curious, does anyone know if the 3900 happens to be lighter than the 3800 at all? I was just curious since it's a more modern engine, if they reduced the weight a bit, even though it's a little bigger.

[The O.C.]

When you're settled in Vegas, take the Super out for a spin... it might win you over as an over-achiever and perfect for a daily driver.

Well, no manual tranny for me....so it's unlikely I'd consider the Super (although I don't expect it to offer a manual either.)

I like the Super's exterior style the best over the Impala or GXP.....but the interior leaves me cold. I don't like the "cross-hatch" leather on the seats....and the seats don't really look any different than normal LaCrosse seats. I also don't like the dash/interior as much as, believe it or not, the Impala's. I think the Impalas is more contemporary and less "geriatric."

But then again.....if you were wanting me to look at a V8-powered midsize sedan, priced in the low-$30's as a daily driver.....uh.....there's simply another GM sedan that just came out that would be a "no-brainer" over ANY W-body V8.......

[loki]

Just curious, does anyone know if the 3900 happens to be lighter than the 3800 at all? I was just curious since it's a more modern engine, if they reduced the weight a bit, even though it's a little bigger.

i don't know, but wouldn't the 60 degree block use less material than a 90 degree----more area inside the V, more material.