2009 Buick Official Changes

[caddycruiser]

Well...all is now up. Nothing too huge for Buick, except that the Lacrosse is now the sole vehicle with the 3.8L and the Lucerne gets....the 3.9L and retains the 4-speed in all. The Lucerne actually got quite a few changes, albeit small, and the rest are colors/options as usual.

Guess they figured out what to do with all the extra 3.9L's around!

Lacrosse

Deletions

(DG7) Mirrors, outside power-adjustable, body-color

(QB5) Wheels, 16" steel with wheel covers

(PY1) Wheels, 16" 8-spoke Chrome-Tech

(N85) Wheels, 17" 12-spoke painted aluminum

(PZE) Wheels, 17" 12-spoke, chromed aluminum

(FR3) Axle, 3.69 ratio

(LY7) Engine, 3.6L VVT DOHC V6

Exhaust, dual stainless-steel

(FE2) Suspension, 4-wheel independent, Sport-Tuned

Exterior color (27U) Scarlett Red

Exterior color (67U) Platinum Metallic

New Features

Exterior color (17U) Quicksilver Metallic

(ZFH) Tire, compact spare, includes steel wheel and jack kit, 16"

(ZBE) Tire, compact spare, includes steel wheel and jack kit, 17"

(UPF) Bluetooth phone interface, short range voice recognition

Changes

CXS, 4WE19 Model is not available for 2009

LaCrosse Super takes CXS place

Tire inflation kit added as standard on all models

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/...6835&type=0

Lucerne

Deletions

(AU0) Remote Keyless Entry

Visors, driver and front passenger vanity mirrors

(QPX) Tires, P225/60R16 all-season blackwall

(QC4) Wheels, 16" machined-face aluminum

Exterior color (14U) Light Quartz Metallic

Exterior color (67U) Platinum Metallic

Exterior color (99U) Sharkskin

(PZ3) Wheels, 18" Bright Silver finish aluminum

(P31) Wheels, 18" chrome plated aluminum

(FQ3) Axle, 2.86 ratio

(FV3) Axle, 3.11 ratio

(L26) Engine, 3.8L V6 SFI

(LD8) Engine, Northstar 4,6L DOHC V8

(FE1) Suspension, 4-wheel independent, Premium Ride

(FE3) Suspension, 4-wheel independent, Sport-Tuned

(PCK) Luxury Package

New Features

Exterior color (17U) Quicksilver Metallic

Exterior color (57U) Cyber Gray Metallic

Exterior color (96U) Mystic Sapphire Tricoat

(UPF) Bluetooth phone interface

(UBS) XM NavTraffic

Seat Trim, custom perforated suede-appointed seating

(RMG) Chrome decklid molding

(V3L) Grille, chromed

(QZ6) Wheels, 17" chrome-clad aluminum

(P49) Wheels, 18" premium Bright Silver finish aluminum

(Q9M) Wheels, 18" chrome-plated aluminum

(FR2) Axle, 2.93 ratio

(FV4) Axle, 3.71 ratio

(LZ9) Engine, 3.9L V6 SFI

(LGD) Engine, 3.9L V6 SFI FlexFuel

(L37) Engine, 4.6L DOHC V8 Northstar

Exhaust, stainless-steel with chrome tip

(FE4) Suspension, 4-wheel independent, Super

Changes

(PDD) Comfort and Convenience Package, (AG2) 6-way power front passenger seat adjuster and (DR2) outside heated power adjustable mirrors are not included in package

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/...6958&type=0

Enclave

Deletions

Exterior color (67U) Platinum Metallic

Exterior color (78U) Blue-Gold Crystal Metallic

New Features

Exterior color (17U) Quicksilver Metallic

Exterior color (92U) Silver Green Metallic

(UBS) Real Time Traffic XM

(UPF) Bluetooth phone interface

(KB6) Seats, heated and cooled driver and front passenger

(LLT) Engine, 3.6L Variable Valve Timing V6 SIDI Direct Injection

Optional (UVC) Rearview camera system added to inside rearview mirror

Highlights

(PCU) Entertainment Package #1 no longer includes 6-CD changer

(KV1) 110-volt port power inverter is now in all Entertainment Packages and has been removed from the (PCK) Luxury Package

(PCI) Driver Confidence Package now includes (UVC) Rearview camera system

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/...795&type=0#

Edited April 12, 2008 by caddycruiser

[Paolino]

Okay, so looks like the 3.9L is rated at 227hp/237ft/lbs...

17" standard on the Lucerne as is Auto-Dimming mirrors on CX.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Paolino

[Paolino]

Ah, the CX on the LaCrosse gets standard 16" aluminums found on the CXL... and CXL and Super on the Lucerne get integrated turn signal indicators in the side view mirrors.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Paolino

[loki]

dang... i was about to post this. lol

the 3.8 is OUT!!!!...of the lucerne. hopefully any kinks have been worked out from the ~3 years in the impy....

[Paolino]

I'm sure the added power will be welcome. It's just a shame it's going to get such poor fuel economy!!

[VenSeattle]

All Buicks get Bluetooth. It's available on LaCrosse, but standard on Lucerne.

[ZL-1]

And the Enclave gets DI. Cool!

[Robert Hall]

They dropped the 3.6 from the LaCrosse but kept the ancient 3.8? Strange.

Edited April 12, 2008 by moltar

[caddycruiser]

They dropped the 3.6 from the LaCrosse but kept the ancient 3.8? Strange.

That was done some time ago, after a few months into the '08 model year actually. Basically, the CXS 3.6L was a no seller in a big way, and they then had introduced the Super 5.3L, so it wasn't a big deal. Just about every Lacrosse on the road is a 3.8L, and like it and the car or not, it's a big reason why they were bought in the first place.

[Robert Hall]

That was done some time ago, after a few months into the '08 model year actually. Basically, the CXS 3.6L was a no seller in a big way, and they then had introduced the Super 5.3L, so it wasn't a big deal. Just about every Lacrosse on the road is a 3.8L, and like it and the car or not, it's a big reason why they were bought in the first place.

It's just not very competitive to have a pushrod V6 and 4spd auto in the mid-size market in 2009 (maybe 1992)...the next gen model can't come soon enough.

Edited April 12, 2008 by moltar

[ocnblu]

Will the '10 have the Iron Duke standard?

[Paolino]

Will the '10 have the Iron Duke standard?

I'm going to doubt it. I'll bet it'll have the 3.6L standard. GM seems to be ridding themselves of pushrod V6's, being they only have the 3.6L available on the Malibu and Aura now.

[Paolino]

Nice that the DI 3.6L will be putting out 290hp now.

[Dsuupr]

As much as I love the reliability of the 3800, the Lucerne really does need something that is smoother and quiter.

[Croc]

OK, so they delete body-colored power-adjustible side mirrors...and didn't replace them with anything? Hmmm...I can't imagine the listing for Lacrosse is complete, just like I can't see black side mirrors being introduced. Given other changes across the GM lineup, I'm gonna guess new side mirrors with integrated turn signals will be standard.

As much as I love the reliability of the 3800, the Lucerne really does need something that is smoother and quiter.

Which is why it gets the 3.9L now.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Croc

[Paolino]

OK, so they delete body-colored power-adjustible side mirrors...and didn't replace them with anything? Hmmm...I can't imagine the listing for Lacrosse is complete, just like I can't see black side mirrors being introduced. Given other changes across the GM lineup, I'm gonna guess new side mirrors with integrated turn signals will be standard.

According to the list of standard equipment (I checked by the above link), standard on all trims is:

Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable, body-color.

So, maybe they're just being replaced with heated.

It was previously not available on CX, available on CXL, and standard on Super.

[caddycruiser]

According to the list of standard equipment (I checked by the above link), standard on all trims is:

Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable, body-color.

So, maybe they're just being replaced with heated.

It was previously not available on CX, available on CXL, and standard on Super.

Probably, and with these changes, you must remember a lot of times it's naming that is changed...or one very small feature of a part, so it seems like more than reality.

[cire]

According to the list of standard equipment (I checked by the above link), standard on all trims is:

Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable, body-color.

So, maybe they're just being replaced with heated.

It was previously not available on CX, available on CXL, and standard on Super.

This is a good move. Heated, power adjustable, body-color sideview mirrors (preferably with the integrated turn signal indicators) should be standard on all Buicks (as well as fog lights; the Lucerne's front fascia looks much more upscale with the fog lights). I know these are small convenience items, but Buick is supposed to be a premium division and should offer some of these small conveniences as standard equipment. It's these small conveniences that elevates a brand above the mainstream crowd into premium status.

I would also love to see the Lucerne get the 3.6 DOHC V6 engine/6 speed auto trans combo, but I guess it is never going to happen. I don't know if it's true or not, but I believe someone said that this combo wasn't compatible with the Lucerne's platform? It is a shame if it's true because the Lucerne has a nice exterior design; it makes a properly elegant and stately large sedan for the Buick brand (based solely on exterior design, I would consider it ahead of the Taurus/Sable, Azera, Amanti, Avalon, or current Maxima). I think it's the interior design and the old fashioned engine tech that might be repelling some customers.

[Paolino]

This is a good move. Heated, power adjustable, body-color sideview mirrors (preferably with the integrated turn signal indicators) should be standard on all Buicks (as well as fog lights; the Lucerne's front fascia looks much more upscale with the fog lights). I know these are small convenience items, but Buick is supposed to be a premium division and should offer some of these small conveniences as standard equipment. It's these small conveniences that elevates a brand above the mainstream crowd into premium status.

I would also love to see the Lucerne get the 3.6 DOHC V6 engine/6 speed auto trans combo, but I guess it is never going to happen. I don't know if it's true or not, but I believe someone said that this combo wasn't compatible with the Lucerne's platform? It is a shame if it's true because the Lucerne has a nice exterior design; it makes a properly elegant and stately large sedan for the Buick brand (based solely on exterior design, I would consider it ahead of the Taurus/Sable, Azera, Amanti, Avalon, or current Maxima). I think it's the interior design and the old fashioned engine tech that might be repelling some customers.

Well, I have mixed feelings about throwing the 3.9L in the Lucerne. Yes, the additional power is welcome, but the fuel economy will suffer bigtime. I'm going to guess it's true the 6A wouldn't work for the Lucerne's platform because if it did, they would have most definitely put it into the Cadillac DTS... I mean, the only other $40,000+ car I can think of that still uses a 4A, is the Town Car.

And yes, Buick should have those little things as standard equipment. However, doing so pushes the base price up--which also makes sense for cars entering premium territory. However, it's difficult for Buick to do that as it converts its customer base, as well as shaking itself rid of old platforms and technologies. I remind myself to be patient and follow the saying, "Good things come to those who wait." I see a healthy outcome for Buick. It's just going to take time, and patience on my end as I want more product and faster turnaround than is safely possible.

[91z4me]

Will the '10 have the Iron Duke standard?

I imagine the 2010 will be an Epsilon II car and we should see a 2.4 Ecotec and 3.6 HF both with 6 speed autos.

[loki]

Well, I have mixed feelings about throwing the 3.9L in the Lucerne. Yes, the additional power is welcome, but the fuel economy will suffer bigtime. I'm going to guess it's true the 6A wouldn't work for the Lucerne's platform because if it did, they would have most definitely put it into the Cadillac DTS... I mean, the only other $40,000+ car I can think of that still uses a 4A, is the Town Car.

the 3.9 gives me a slight hope they'll keep 1 CIB v6...but with economies of scale, it's a very, very small chance they'll do something with the 3.5 or 3.9 before they all get replaced by the 3.6 or 2.4

[Paolino]

the 3.9 gives me a slight hope they'll keep 1 CIB v6...but with economies of scale, it's a very, very small chance they'll do something with the 3.5 or 3.9 before they all get replaced by the 3.6 or 2.4

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm always confused with acronyms when it pertains to cars... what is CIB?

[91z4me]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm always confused with acronyms when it pertains to cars... what is CIB?

Cam In Block

Or Pushrod under the older terminology.

[Sixty8panther]

Will the '10 have the Iron Duke standard?

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Serious;y though the FWD $h! has to stop.

The fact that Zeta Buicks are nto yet a reality in the USA is DISGUSTING!

[Paolino]

Cam In Block

Or Pushrod under the older terminology.

Well, while I'm not against pushrod V6s, I'm not for them either. The 3800 was a gem, for its size, produces adequate power now (was much more competitive years ago), but that 3900 is a disaster in my opinion. It doesn't produce amazing power, has poor fuel economy, and I have read mixed reviews from people on whether they like it. Some say it's rough, loud, etc., and others say it's smooth, has a great tone to it, and performs well. I can't give my true opinion until I drive one.

Do I think putting the 3900 in the Lucerne is a smart move? Not sure. I guess the good outweighs the bad. The only bad side I see being that the 3800 will probably outperform it in terms of fuel economy.

I'm all for what makes the Lucerne the best car it can be.

[gm4life]

This is a great thing the Lucerne 3900 will have AFM like the 2008 Impala's right? If so that was a great move, and I'd get mine flex-fuel. Another reason I wouldn't get a V8. Sad to see my 3800 go tho the spirit lives on in the 3900. Drove my sister-in laws 2008 Impala LTZ I picked out for them and loved it. Smooth and very silent and strong. The exhuast sounded good like my 3800 too. I was very impressed and so are they with the fuel econo thanks to the AFM.

Edited April 13, 2008 by gm4life

[Paolino]

Well, then it sounds by your reaction the 3900 will be a great addition. I would have liked to have seen maybe the slightest update to the interior--like a new woodgrain. I've heard some bad reactions from their base woodgrain and good reactions from the one available on the CXS (the warm chestnut or something).

I think the woodgrain in the LaCrosse even looks better!

Eh, beggars can't be choosers--the car is only around 2 more years.

[caddycruiser]

Well, while I'm not against pushrod V6s, I'm not for them either. The 3800 was a gem, for its size, produces adequate power now (was much more competitive years ago), but that 3900 is a disaster in my opinion. It doesn't produce amazing power, has poor fuel economy, and I have read mixed reviews from people on whether they like it. Some say it's rough, loud, etc., and others say it's smooth, has a great tone to it, and performs well. I can't give my true opinion until I drive one.

Do I think putting the 3900 in the Lucerne is a smart move? Not sure. I guess the good outweighs the bad. The only bad side I see being that the 3800 will probably outperform it in terms of fuel economy.

I'm all for what makes the Lucerne the best car it can be.

I've read and heard the same thing with the 3.9L too--love it, hate it, or it's okay--especially since the Impala rolled out in '06. A lot of reviews, for instance, say it's pleasant enough but then compare it to their last gen Impala's 3.8L and that it "can't compare" in things like mileage vs. power. I think it can, but it's odd how much negativity it's seen since intro. At least it seems more powerful, quieter, and a bit smoother than the 3.8L, and now has AFM.

Well, then with that too, if you read reviews, it being the only GM V6 with AFM, people have had odd reactions to it and/or problems, with vibration or not running properly--albeit a small number.

Still, should be interesting in the Lucerne. I'm a 3.8L fan, but after my drive of two '06s, I'm still shocked at how loud and gruff it seems in such a big, solid, silent car, and it even seemed bizarre at times, so if the 3.9L can also give it more grunt but sound and feel more polished, it should be a good thing. Well, that, and keep the classic 3.8L fuel mileage at least, if not better it.

[Paolino]

Well, that, and keep the classic 3.8L fuel mileage at least, if not better it.

But that's just it, the 3900 is very poor on fuel economy... the 3800 was much better! I am not looking forward to when the numbers roll out for the 3900 in the Lucerne...

[Robert Hall]

But that's just it, the 3900 is very poor on fuel economy... the 3800 was much better! I am not looking forward to when the numbers roll out for the 3900 in the Lucerne...

I was surprised that the 3900 is based on the old Chevy 60 degree V6 family...I assumed it was a slightly bigger 3800, but noo..

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

They dropped the 3.6 from the LaCrosse but kept the ancient 3.8? Strange.

Way to promote an image of luxury GM! (sarcasm) Especially on the eve of the all new model.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's just not very competitive to have a pushrod V6 and 4spd auto in the mid-size market in 2009 (maybe 1992)...the next gen model can't come soon enough.

Can you blame GM for that decision when the 3800 sold much better than the 3.6? GM offered the more advanced power train and no one bought it.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Bad, BAD idea if LaCrosse gets a 4-cylinder standard-surprise us in a good way, and not only give us the 3.6 V-6 as standard, but make the 275hp (or 270) STANDARD too! Then have enthusiasts be like, wow, this has this much standard?!

[Croc]

We need a revival of the LX5, stat.

[trinacriabob]

But that's just it, the 3900 is very poor on fuel economy... the 3800 was much better! I am not looking forward to when the numbers roll out for the 3900 in the Lucerne...

Agreed. My first tank on the LaX with the 3800 on a very benign freeway trip at 62 to 65 mph with no A/C got me 30.34 mpg and not even broken in. Any 3900 I've ever rented never breaks 27 or 28 mpg, even with AFM but "baby brother" 3500 gets 32 mpg easily. In the end, even with high fuel prices, 1 or 2 mpg in 15,000 miles of driving is not that costly.

About the changes, I can now exhale. I thought about waiting for MY 2009 and would have kicked myself if I was ready to buy and the 3800 was gone. It isn't, so I could have waited. However, what I would have waited for is some beautiful shade of blue (such as an ice or glacier version) which might have appeared...together with the 3800. The color didn't materialize, so I'm ok with the purchase at the time I bought it, even though I'm not even driving it that much.

I would have liked to have seen the 3800 remain on the Lucerne. Wow, 3800 production or inventory must be down to a trickle, as I don't think they will be selling more than 100,000 LaCrosses for 2009.

[Paolino]

Honestly, I wish the LaCrosse paint colors were just a little more exciting. I really don't like the dark blue in person. It's actually a little lighter than I thought it would be. And again, I would have liked to have seen something in the green family.

[ponchoman49]

I wonder which 3900 this is with only 227 HP? It put out 242 in the 06 Impala and Monte, 240 in the Malibu SS and G6 is currently 233 in the 08 Impala with AFM. How do they continually manage to detune V6 engines that sit in the Lucernes engine bay? I imagine it will be for noise reduction with reduced RPM's. Also notice that the Lucerne's 3900 will use 2.93:1 gears compared to 3.29:1 in the Impala which may help a little in mileage. The 08 Impala with the AFM 3900 rates at 18/28 and the 08 Lucerne with the old 3800 rates 16/25 so we may see a slight improvement here if were lucky.

[Paolino]

I wonder which 3900 this is with only 227 HP? It put out 242 in the 06 Impala and Monte, 240 in the Malibu SS and G6 is currently 233 in the 08 Impala with AFM. How do they continually manage to detune V6 engines that sit in the Lucernes engine bay? I imagine it will be for noise reduction with reduced RPM's. Also notice that the Lucerne's 3900 will use 2.93:1 gears compared to 3.29:1 in the Impala which may help a little in mileage. The 08 Impala with the AFM 3900 rates at 18/28 and the 08 Lucerne with the old 3800 rates 16/25 so we may see a slight improvement here if were lucky.

Your numbers are off. According to the chevy website, the 3900 with AFM gets 17/25 in the Impala.

EDIT: I'm very confused. I see where you got your numbers... but if you click on the actual link to the 3900 engine, it says 17/25 for gas, 13/20 for E85. If you click on Model Overview, it shows 17/25 for the 3900. I think the 18/28 is a typo to be honest.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Paolino

[The O.C.]

Can you blame GM for that decision when the 3800 sold much better than the 3.6? GM offered the more advanced power train and no one bought it.

uh....gee ya think it might have been because they only offered it in the top-line CXS model?

<DUH>

We all know how price-sensitive a car the LaCrosse is.....it's no wonder the volume was in the cheaper CX and CXL models.

I'm aghast in seeing that GM is dropping the HF V6 in the LaCrosse, and not putting it in the Lucerne......and btw....where is the family of HF V6s...? What happened to the 2.8L? Why not a competitive 2.8L or 3.0L DI HF V6 to complement the DI 3.6L?

Buick is simply asking for every single bit of bad press they get between now and the next two years before we see these cars' replacements......you KNOW everyone will harp on the fact that one of GM's "premium" divisions is relying solely on such "old-school" and "out-of-date" V6 engines for their two cars.

[The O.C.]

Your numbers are off. According to the chevy website, the 3900 with AFM gets 17/25 in the Impala.

EDIT: I'm very confused. I see where you got your numbers... but if you click on the actual link to the 3900 engine, it says 17/25 for gas, 13/20 for E85. If you click on Model Overview, it shows 17/25 for the 3900. I think the 18/28 is a typo to be honest.

....and why does the G6 Convertible with the 3.9L only get 16/22? That's pretty piss-poor in anyone's book.....Is it because it's such a porker? Or what?

[The O.C.]

I would also love to see the Lucerne get the 3.6 DOHC V6 engine/6 speed auto trans combo, but I guess it is never going to happen. I don't know if it's true or not, but I believe someone said that this combo wasn't compatible with the Lucerne's platform?

Well.....it can't be the size of the engine. If the 4.6L can fit, I'd assume the smaller 3.6L V6 would fit.

Perhaps it's the tranny that won't fit. However, if you can fit a 3.6L V6 and 6-speed combo in a Malibu, why not a Lucerne?

Finally.....LaCrosse used the same 3.6L 4-speed combo....so if it WAS the tranny, why not use that combo in the Lucerne?

I think it's ludicrous whatever the reason.......GM's being so boneheaded.....STILL......great to see your buddy down the street in a $25K Malibu with a more advanced, smoother, and more powerful V6/6-speed combo than your "premium" Buick.

(Edit: And before any one tries to argue that the "traditional" Buick buyer preferred the pushrod V6s, let's just ALL remember the fact that this division and this corporation will NOT survive if they are going to solely rely on their "traditional" buyers.........)

Edited April 17, 2008 by The O.C.

[Robert Hall]

....and why does the G6 Convertible with the 3.9L only get 16/22? That's pretty piss-poor in anyone's book.....Is it because it's such a porker? Or what?

Maybe...it's curb weight is listed as 3855... pretty chubby for a FWD midsizer..

[vonVeezelsnider]

Yeah, I'm just not sold on the 3900... Our Impala got 35MPG on the highway not even broken more than 10K miles. The 3800s are almost as good, but I've heard things from the 3900 about bad fuel economy, not a very substantial improvement in power, and a rough engagement of the AFM.

[loki]

hopefully the 3900 is geared well so maybe it'll be 18/27 at worst... or so

edit: according to msn, the 3.8 is rated at 16/25.... is that right? the buick site doesn't list it's mpg...

so even if it's rated 17/26 it'd be an improvement for keeping a few more people interested if the mileage is that big of an issue (other than vehicle price)

won't the 3.9 be slightly lighter than the 3.8 anyway?

Edited April 18, 2008 by loki

[The O.C.]

Maybe...it's curb weight is listed as 3855... pretty chubby for a FWD midsizer..

Then that doesn't bode well for 3.9L fuel-efficiency in the large Lucerne, does it....?

[Robert Hall]

Then that doesn't bode well for 3.9L fuel-efficiency in the large Lucerne, does it....?

Though the Lucerne is actually listed at under 3800 lbs, so who knows. I wonder if using a modern drivetrain combo (3.6 w/ DI, 6sp auto) instead of the ancient stuff (pushrod V6, 4spd auto) would result in better mileage...

[The O.C.]

Though the Lucerne is actually listed at under 3800 lbs, so who knows. I wonder if using a modern drivetrain combo (3.6 w/ DI, 6sp auto) instead of the ancient stuff (pushrod V6, 4spd auto) would result in better mileage...

I would think so.....however, GM is having problems making the HF V6 very fuel efficient.......why is it that seemingly everyone else can build a competitive, modern, DOHC 24-valve V6 that gets decent fuel economy numbers.....but GM can't....?

With 34,000 miles, I still only average between 17-19mpg in mixed driving in my CTS 3.6L....and that's WITH a manual tranny......long highway cruises at 80-90mph only get me around 22-23mpg.....

Compare Malibu's EPA numbers versus Accord V6s or Camry V6's......seems to be quite a difference.......

However on the other hand, a 300hp twin-turbo 535i has the same EPA numbers as a DI 3.6L CTS.......???

(Edit: On the other hand, I think it's close enough that the mileage isn't the biggest factor......I'd vote for the 3.6L/6-speed for the performance, smoothness and refinement, and if nothing else, be neck-to-neck with the competition as far as powertrain technology "bragging rights" compared to using the pushrod engines and 4-speed autos. GM, for right-or-for wrong, gets dumped on by the press, and discerning consumers, for it's continual use of "old-tech." It's an easy way to get past that....start using the better technology you have on the shelves right now.)

Edited April 18, 2008 by The O.C.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

between now and the next two years before we see these cars' replacements..

Two years? Where in the hell you been?,.the new Lacrosse is January 2009 as a 2010 model,thats 8 months.

[Robert Hall]

Two years? Where in the hell you been?,.the new Lacrosse is January 2009 as a 2010 model,thats 8 months.

The Lucerne replacement is still 2 years or more away..the idea of GM having a car in 2010 with a pushrod 6 and a 4spd automatic is mind-blowing.

[The O.C.]

Two years? Where in the hell you been?,.the new Lacrosse is January 2009 as a 2010 model,thats 8 months.

"BETWEEN NOW and the next TWO YEARS...."