Is This Going on in Your Area?

[CARBIZ]

This is delicious, actually. Ford still has not lived down its reputation of producing rusty cars - and that was 25 years ago. People can spin this any way they want: frames rotting out like this on a pick up truck is outrageous. This is not the '80s and we are not talking sheet metal problems here.

This has the makings of a PR disaster worse than any Aztek or push rod engines or lack of 6 spd automatics could do for GM.

But the usual suspects will spin it away.

[Camino LS6]

Toyota probably should buy all of these trucks back, rusty or not.

Can you imagine when the frame fails on a truck that they deemed to be OK and someone dies?

The liability risk here is huge.

I found it interesting that so many of the owners are pissed that no one really makes a compact truck of this size anymore ( other than the deathbed Ranger and its Mazda clone).

I think the entire industry has missed the boat on small pickups.

[SuperSport623]

Toyota probably should buy all of these trucks back, rusty or not.

Can you imagine when the frame fails on a truck that they deemed to be OK and someone dies?

The liability risk here is huge.

I found it interesting that so many of the owners are pissed that no one really makes a compact truck of this size anymore ( other than the deathbed Ranger and its Mazda clone).

I think the entire industry has missed the boat on small pickups.

i saw return to the routes of the LUV... a small, dead ass reliable little truck

[biff]

I know of a guy that put 600000 miles on a '76 chevy pickup. Fenders were rotted to nothing. There were holes in the floorboards. Really nothing left...except the frame and drive train. It's crazy that a frame can rust out on such new models. Wonder what steel/treatment they're using? Frames don't shed dirt and debris? How such a big failure on something that's been done with success for so many years?

Edited April 11, 2008 by biff

[Camino LS6]

I know of a guy that put 600000 miles on a '76 chevy pickup. Fenders were rotted to nothing. There were holes in the floorboards. Really nothing left...except the frame and drive train. It's crazy that a frame can rust out on such new models. Wonder what steel/treatment they're using? Frames don't shed dirt and debris? How such a big failure on something that's been done with success for so many years?

I have yet to read an adequate explanantion. It really doesn't make much sense.

Then again, the frame on my 30 year old El Camino is more substantial than the ones under these trucks.

[Blake Noble]

i saw return to the routes of the S10 and Sonoma... a small, dead ass reliable little truck

That is more like it. :AH-HA_wink:

[gm4life]

I am loving the photos. That is alot of Tacoma's I hope the Turds have the same problem.

[SuperSport623]

back in 06, i cut up my dads old 74 chevy pickup cause the body was rotted to nothing.. i wanted to save it, but i was 15 and couldnt do it, so i took it apart as a learning experience.. this body was BAD! no floors left, bad cab rot, etc.. to fit the parts in the scrap container, i had to cut the frame in three pieces... oh my god

i love chevys... i went through over 40 cutting discs in my powerful little pnuematic cutoff wheel getting through this frame... the frame was so damn mint, looked like it rolled of the line... you wont see this kinda of cracking on a chevy frame, im damn sure of it!

[daves87rs]

this is disgusting!

dealers storage lot

more:

Wow!

I know someone who owns a 98...

I just told him about it-he's dropping off at the dealership tomorrow-he said he heard a creaking noise a few days ago-this freaks him out.....

[Camino LS6]

If you know anyone who owns one of these, warn them!

Any vehicle with this sort of structural problem is a potential deathtrap.

[deftonesfan867]

Wow. This is horrible no matter how you slice it, lets hope nobody gets hurt. As much as I dislike Toyota I wouldn't someone to die/get seriously hurt because a recall wasn't issued.

[balthazar]

Another thing- as an owner of one of these accidents-waiting-to-happen, you are relying on individual 'techs' to judge whether your frame is structurally sound or not, and if it is, wait a whole year to have it checked again. What if the guy is sloppy/lazy or just plain misses something? What if it was 'camo'd' by bubbling paint and he missed the hairline crack the ran nearly thru the rail top-to-bottom, just in front of the rear wheel... and the thing splits in 9 months? No 1-piece body shell to hold things together here- it's going to go in 2 different directions. Meanwhile, thousands built right alongside of yours are already stickered as unsafe to drive, some of them literally broken in half.

Are these tech monkeys --no doubt professionally trained to evaulate this sort of common manufacturing problem -- going to wire-wheel the whole frame down & mic it to check thickness spec? Or are they merely going to tap at it with a screwdriver?

I saw a car this weekend with it's frame rotted in 2, tho it was 71 years old and had spent the last at least 30 years sitting literally in mud & water.

The frame on my unrestored 1940 Ford is still rock-solid with no paint on it anywhere, and that truck was in service at least 30 years (commercial & municipal), nevermind the fact that it's now 68 years old. In addition, it was rated as a 1.5-ton truck by Ford, tho it was registered at & carried 8-ton in 1945 (15,955 lbs). Of course; Ford's structural engineering & metallurgy of the '40s is superior than any decade of toyota's... but still.

[balthazar]

;P

[A Horse With No Name]

Another thing- as an owner of one of these accidents-waiting-to-happen, you are relying on individual 'techs' to judge whether your frame is structurally sound or not, and if it is, wait a whole year to have it checked again. What if the guy is sloppy/lazy or just plain misses something? What if it was 'camo'd' by bubbling paint and he missed the hairline crack the ran nearly thru the rail top-to-bottom, just in front of the rear wheel... and the thing splits in 9 months? No 1-piece body shell to hold things together here- it's going to go in 2 different directions. Meanwhile, thousands built right alongside of yours are already stickered as unsafe to drive, some of them literally broken in half.

Are these tech monkeys --no doubt professionally trained to evaulate this sort of common manufacturing problem -- going to wire-wheel the whole frame down & mic it to check thickness spec? Or are they merely going to tap at it with a screwdriver?

I saw a car this weekend with it's frame rotted in 2, tho it was 71 years old and had spent the last at least 30 years sitting literally in mud & water.

The frame on my unrestored 1940 Ford is still rock-solid with no paint on it anywhere, and that truck was in service at least 30 years (commercial & municipal), nevermind the fact that it's now 68 years old. In addition, it was rated as a 1.5-ton truck by Ford, tho it was registered at & carried 8-ton in 1945 (15,955 lbs). Of course; Ford's structural engineering & metallurgy of the '40s is superior than any decade of toyota's... but still.

1940 Ford Truck (drool)...Wow!

This is really bad no matter how you spin it or slice it, agreed. It has convinced me never to buy another Toyota product, for sure.

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

This is absolutely stunning... shocking beyond the Firestone/Explorer fiasco.

I have to admit I can not believe that my opinion of Toyota has managed to

sink even lower. In a way this is almost like a dream come true. I hope to

god that for every truck that tears right in half Toyota looses at least SEVEN

customers, after all that's the kind of statistic we get taught about bad

product/customer relations.

[A Horse With No Name]

It's really going to hurt them for sure, 7 for every truck may not be a bad estimate...

Chris

[CARBIZ]

It's said in marketing circles that a happy customer may tell 3 friends, but an unhappy customer will tell 10.

[Camino LS6]

They really need to recall and crush every last one of these trucks.

[Robert Hall]

This is absolutely stunning... shocking beyond the Firestone/Explorer fiasco.

I would say this a minor blip compared to the Firestone/Explorer story..there were hundreds of fatalities related to that, none yet that I've heard about w/ the Tundreas..

[Stag]

So my question is this...I am no auto engineer or expert on metallurgy, so what is the root cause of this. Is it the grade/quality of the steel? The design of the frame rail (boxed vs. open)? Inexperience in making body on frame vehicles?

I have tinkered on cars my whole life and I don't think I can ever recall a frame rail rusting to pieces. Granted, I've seen some pretty f'd up by accidents, but I always was under the impression that the frame rail is supposed to be the back bone/strongest part of the vehicle.

Oh, and having said that ... other then designing the shape of the rail, the ability to construct one to a certain strength does not seem that difficult that someone like Toyota could not accomplish it.

[A Horse With No Name]

They really need to recall and crush every last one of these trucks.

They do...this is a major F.U.

Off topic story though about GM frames.

Our Safari was hit behind by a damned SEMI TRUCK. My wife was sitting at a red light and she was hit from behind by a truck doing about 25 m.p.h. It pushed the Safari THROUGH the intersection and about 30 feet beyond.

When the body shop went to fix the frame, they pulled the Safari onto the frame rack and pulled a few measurements....still to perfect factory specs. That after being ass-ended by 80,000 pounds of fully loaded coal truck. The body guy just backed it off of the frame rack, and the body shop issued a credit to the insurance co.

Now THAT is a damned frame!

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

Maybe Toyota managed to invent "anti-galvinization" by strip mining

salt deposits and impregnating their metal with them.

But all joking aside, Moltar: I see your point in terms of the Ford

EXPLODERS causing REAL fatalities but that was still mostly user

error. Under inflated tires are NOT acceptable! If Ford had told me

to lower my PSI to 25 instead of the recomended 35 I'd tell them

to go F$$ themselves because they just lost a customer.

Regardess of who is telling me something MY OWN common

sense prevails. And in the end speeding and stupid driving SKILLZ

were at least partially to blame.

If I took an off ramp in the Banana at 85mph on wet pavement &

managed to roll the effin car no one would be surprized, certainly

Cadillac would & SHOULD not be blamed for poor suspension

design. And in any case the Tires were less the problem than

any thing Ford did.

Sooooooo.... my point is Toyota trucks tearing in half is NOT due

to user error (underinflated tires or poor/dangerous driving habits)

Edited April 19, 2008 by Sixty8panther

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

My understanding of the Exploder/Firestone fiasco is that there was some controversy between the design specs of the tires themselves. The Malibu of the same era used Firestone tires and they, too, had wierd air pressure requirements (26 on the back and 28 on the front, as I recall) but that did not result in any roll overs or fatalities.

Then again, GM has had its tires built to spec for over 35 years. That could be the difference.

This frame rot is outrageous, IMO. One could expect a 10 year old car to have rocker panels, etc. start rotting like that in the north-east, but the frame? Methinks Toyota was using recycled Japanese beer cans again.

[grandmarquis]

So my question is this...I am no auto engineer or expert on metallurgy, so what is the root cause of this. Is it the grade/quality of the steel? The design of the frame rail (boxed vs. open)? Inexperience in making body on frame vehicles?

I have tinkered on cars my whole life and I don't think I can ever recall a frame rail rusting to pieces. Granted, I've seen some pretty f'd up by accidents, but I always was under the impression that the frame rail is supposed to be the back bone/strongest part of the vehicle.

Oh, and having said that ... other then designing the shape of the rail, the ability to construct one to a certain strength does not seem that difficult that someone like Toyota could not accomplish it.

Metalurgy, plain and simple. I can't tell you what is or isn't in the steel Toy used that is causing this issue, but it's definately not the frame design cauing this. BTW, both Ford and GM has frame rust issues back in the day, '69 and '70 full size Fords, Mercurys, and Lincolns were notorious for frame rot. 65-68 GM full-size cars were as well.

[Sixty8panther]

Then again, GM has had its tires built to spec for over 35 years. That could be the difference.

That's a part of it.

Firestone NEVER okayed the Exploder tires to be underinflated, that was Fords stupidity!

[balthazar]

>>"65-68 GM full-size cars were as well."<<

NEVER heard of, read about, or experienced this, and I say that having owned 4 '65-66 full-size GMs, plus my buddy has owned 6 of those years. Some of these cars had 150K plus and all ran in PA/ NJ: heavily salted areas. I have the bones of a '65 Bonneville out back, frame is rock solid and doesn't even have heavy scale on it, even tho the car was on the road for 34 years. Would love to see a published reference to this.

[grandmarquis]

>>"65-68 GM full-size cars were as well."<<

NEVER heard of, read about, or experienced this, and I say that having owned 4 '65-66 full-size GMs, plus my buddy has owned 6 of those years. Some of these cars had 150K plus and all ran in PA/ NJ: heavily salted areas. I have the bones of a '65 Bonneville out back, frame is rock solid and doesn't even have heavy scale on it, even tho the car was on the road for 34 years. Would love to see a published reference to this.

Maybe I should have clarified that this phenom was a Midwest thing. Here in N.E. Ohio they use gawdawful amounts of road salt, far more that is needed. Back in the '70s is was very common to see badly rusted 5-6 year old cars, some even newer. '70s Corollas, Datsun B210's, and Vegas were probably the worst. My dad had a 74 Vega GT that didn't make it to its 6th birthday before it became so rusty that it was unsafe to drive. There was an instructor at the vo-ed school I went to that had a 4 year old (1976) Corolla that the strut towers were collapsing due to rust. We in the auto body class rigged up a strut tower brace from a door crash beam taken from a '73 Monte Carlo door. I bought a '73 Pinto in the spring of '81 that was so rusty I could pull on the driver's door handle and reach my long arm UNDER the door and lift up the lock button. The latch post had rotted loose of the lower sill. That car drove like a Slinky. My older brother bought a 70 Nova in IIRC '82 that was so rusty that when he got rear-ended the car that hit him ended up alost in the rear seat. The car just collapsed at impact.

Edited April 24, 2008 by grandmarquis

[grandmarquis]

>>"65-68 GM full-size cars were as well."<<

NEVER heard of, read about, or experienced this, and I say that having owned 4 '65-66 full-size GMs, plus my buddy has owned 6 of those years. Some of these cars had 150K plus and all ran in PA/ NJ: heavily salted areas. 34 years. Would love to

Trust me, Ohio uses FAR more salt than you have ever seen in PA or NJ. When I was a kid I marvelled that there were far more older less-rusty cars on western PA roads, given that (at least to me) that western PA weather was no different than northern Ohio's. I have always believed that Ohio uses road salt not for clearing the roads of snow and ice, but to line the politician's pockets. Cleveland lies above vast salt deposits, and I'm sure that Cargill, Sterling, etc. make sure to "reward" all of the local gov't officials for their salt use.

[ponchoman49]

Todays cars and trucks still have rust issues in Upstate, NY. I am seeing 2000 cars and minivans with rotted out rocker panals, rust on the bottoms of the doors and holes in the floors and subframes. Trucks usually last 2 Winters and then are all rust scale underneath and on the frames. It's true that todays cars last longer before the car it totally rotted out but rust is still a major problem in areas that continue to use salt that destroys everything from Bridges to roadways to the land surrounding it. Imagine if we switched over to the non corrosive stuff used in PA and other smarter states and all the bridges, roads and automobiles lasted longer. That little extra money spent in keeping the roads clear would far outweight the constant expense of having to re-surface roads every 3-4 years, install new bridges every 20 or so years and the land around the roadways would be in far better shape too.

[Sixty8panther]

Maybe I should have clarified that this phenom was a Midwest thing. Here in N.E. Ohio they use gawdawful amounts of road salt, far more that is needed. Back in the '70s is was very common to see badly rusted 5-6 year old cars, some even newer. '70s Corollas, Datsun B210's, and Vegas were probably the worst. My dad had a 74 Vega GT that didn't make it to its 6th birthday before it became so rusty that it was unsafe to drive. There was an instructor at the vo-ed school I went to that had a 4 year old (1976) Corolla that the strut towers were collapsing due to rust. We in the auto body class rigged up a strut tower brace from a door crash beam taken from a '73 Monte Carlo door. I bought a '73 Pinto in the spring of '81 that was so rusty I could pull on the driver's door handle and reach my long arm UNDER the door and lift up the lock button. The latch post had rotted loose of the lower sill. That car drove like a Slinky. My older brother bought a 70 Nova in IIRC '82 that was so rusty that when he got rear-ended the car that hit him ended up alost in the rear seat. The car just collapsed at impact.

Do you understand the differance between a FRAME on a BOF

vehicle that is thick & beefy like an I-beam used to construct

a multiple story building, & a UNIBODY, lightweight &#036;h&#33;box like

some '70s Corolla or Pinto?

Strut towers, floor boards, rear quarters & even roofs should

be completely rotted through FOUR or FIVE times by the time

the FRAME on a BOF car is.

My '92 Buicks' 1/4 panels, floorboards, rocker panels, gastank

straps, door edges & even some of the lightweight hardware

used on the radiator support & suspension components are

rotted like the Titanic and yet the frame shows MAYBE a 5%

loss of structure due to some minor bubbling in a select few

places. Even the base of the Roadmaser's B-pillars have rot

holes for krissake and ONCE AGAIN the frame is SOLID!

[A Horse With No Name]

Trust me, Ohio uses FAR more salt than you have ever seen in PA or NJ. When I was a kid I marvelled that there were far more older less-rusty cars on western PA roads, given that (at least to me) that western PA weather was no different than northern Ohio's. I have always believed that Ohio uses road salt not for clearing the roads of snow and ice, but to line the politician's pockets. Cleveland lies above vast salt deposits, and I'm sure that Cargill, Sterling, etc. make sure to "reward" all of the local gov't officials for their salt use.

Depends, I live in Columbus, own a 91 mazda MX-6, 97 GMC Safari, 05 Scion xB. All of them have been on the road in Ohio there whole life and none of them have any outer body or frame rust.

Toyota simply screwed the pooch on this one.

chris

[CARBIZ]

I can't believe that this post is still being debated! The frames on a friggin' truck are rotting in HALF. Ford, at its worst in the late '70s never had FRAME ROT. This is a total joke, with the galvanization and rust-proof technology that is out there. This is no way to spin this away, Toyota.

This isn't the '70s any more. Honda, Ford and others should be embarassed for what happened in the '70s, but Toyota should be sued for this &#036;h&#33; in the TWENTY FIRST CENTURY.

[balthazar]

>>"This isn't the '70s any more. Honda, Ford and others should be embarassed for what happened in the '70s, but Toyota should be sued for this &#036;h&#33; in the TWENTY FIRST CENTURY. "<<

QFT

[grandmarquis]

Do you understand the differance between a FRAME on a BOF

vehicle that is thick & beefy like an I-beam used to construct

a multiple story building, & a UNIBODY, lightweight &#036;h&#33;box like

some '70s Corolla or Pinto?

Strut towers, floor boards, rear quarters & even roofs should

be completely rotted through FOUR or FIVE times by the time

the FRAME on a BOF car is.

My '92 Buicks' 1/4 panels, floorboards, rocker panels, gastank

straps, door edges & even some of the lightweight hardware

used on the radiator support & suspension components are

rotted like the Titanic and yet the frame shows MAYBE a 5%

loss of structure due to some minor bubbling in a select few

places. Even the base of the Roadmaser's B-pillars have rot

holes for krissake and ONCE AGAIN the frame is SOLID!

Yes, I DO know the difference! What I am giving you is personal experiences of what Ohio's salt use can do to a car. If you wnat BOF experience then here some more. My father was a lawyer and back in the '70s one of his clients had a welding shop on Cleveland's near West Side. He always had a good supply of frame repairs to keep him busy, and he even had to reinforce the frame on his '70 Coupe De Ville. I also have personal experience with 2 '69 LTD's, a '72 LTD, a '65 Impala, a '67 Impala, and a car I ran in the Cuyahoga County Fair demo derby in '81,a SEVEN YEAR OLD COUPE DE VILLE! That Caddy was very rotted, and had even been patched up a couple of years before I aquired it. And believe me, the frame on that car didn't do so well. Your mentioning the solidness of your Roadmaster's frame is meaningless when compared to late '60s and '70s cars, due to FAR better rust preventative coatings and better steel alloys. Oh,I forgot another experience, I had a '77 Bonneville that the frame broke at the cowl, this was back in '92 or '93 IIRC. Due to frame rot, of course.

[balthazar]

If you actually accept

...FAR better rust preventative coatings and better steel alloys...

as fact

(and frankly, I seriously question the better alloys claim- there HAS to be far more recycled alloys these days, decreasing the percentage of virgin steel and decreasing the quality of a material, not improving it in many cases)

then you have NO CHOICE but to place all the blame on toyota here.

Your examples are all vehicles built almost 30 years ago or more; some of these toyotas are only 7 years old (vs. the 15 your '77 Bonneville was). Salt, as discussed earlier in this post, is not the cause- only a mitigating factor. 'Salt' shifts the blame away from where it is due, again- if you accept the theory of better alloys & rust prevention in 2000 vs. 1970

[CARBIZ]

Dragging up examples from the '70s is just wacked. WE ALL AGREE 90% OF THE VEHICLES PRODUCED IN THE '70s WERE RUST MAGNETS.

This Tacoma FRAME rust-through problem is NOW. That is criminal. Where is the LA Times on this one? Or the Toyota Star?

[balthazar]

Talked to my buddy today- his brother runs a plow/hydraulics business. My buddy reports via the bro than many tundra frames are cracking under any sort of work loads or plowing. I reported over the winter that initially toyota disallowed putting plows on tundras via a TSB or somesort, but then caved under pressure from owners who were led to believe they were buying, you know; a TRUCK, so toyota knew early these frames were under-engineered and weak... but of course, TMC can afford to pay to hush these owners up, too.

Would be real sweet (you know: for the safety and ROI for the toyota truck buyers ) to get a public information ramp-up on this tundra issue, so it can goose-step down the information highway just like the tacoma news ISN'T.

[pow]

TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Living Up to Our Commitment

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/03/living-up-t...l?no_prefetch=1

[Camino LS6]

Even a bare, unpainted frame on a truck should never rot like these Toyotas.

Common sense should tell you that the problem isn't "rust proofing", but the metal itself. I have a 31 year-old parts car that spent it's life in New York and has almost no unrusted body panels left - it still has a completely solid frame. These frames were made from bad steel.

[Camino LS6]

TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Living Up to Our Commitment

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/03/living-up-t...l?no_prefetch=1

Spin City!

[CARBIZ]

:rotflmao:

So, Toyota, what exactly would constitute a RECALL? I guess we should be grateful that they are being proactive on this, but I find it very interesting that the media is deafeningly silent on this. The Toronto Star went absolutely rabid about a gas tank sensor problem (that turned out to be PetroCanada's fault, not GM's) that affected vehicles only in in southern Ontario. This is far more serious and not a peep.

People still joke about rusty Ford's - and they have been fine for 20 some odd years. I wonder if Toyota will enjoy the same fate?

[cletus8269]

"Right on Toyota!! Thanks for doing right by your customers and taking the high road on this issue. Many other auto makers would leave their customers out in the cold, and just tell them that rust just happens and they're out of luck. But Toyota shows (once again) that they stand behind their vehicles and stands by their customers. That's the reason I'm a Toyota owner and will continue to be one!!"

hehe i love that one... if i had bought a truck like some of these poor saps and had to park it cause the frame was shot but the car still ran i think i would be quite pissed... it should be the vehichle is parked because a blown motor or grenaded tranny.

[daves87rs]

TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Living Up to Our Commitment

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/03/living-up-t...l?no_prefetch=1

[daves87rs]

Even a bare, unpainted frame on a truck should never rot like these Toyotas.

Common sense should tell you that the problem isn't "rust proofing", but the metal itself. I have a 31 year-old parts car that spent it's life in New York and has almost no unrusted body panels left - it still has a completely solid frame. These frames were made from bad steel.

Agreed. Rust proofing would have helped on good models...

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

However, you do realize this means that Toyota is actually coralling their hapless suckers, er I mean owners, into buying another Toyota.

GM should take out full page ads, offering the same deal to Tacoma owners to buy a real truck.

[# 1 chevy fan]

I read about this on the internet and thought it was just some prank.

My friend's dad took their 1997 Tacoma to the dealership for its inspection. The truck's frame was so bad that the technician's finger went right through the frame!! The truck had over 192,000 miles on it and was still in relatively good condition mechanically. They put him in a rental car for about a month until Toyota finally settled their claim. After signing the title over to the dealership, they walked away with a check for about $10,000! My friend's mom was told by the dealership that they are lucky nothing happened to them while driving the truck. The dealer even had the nerve to ask if they would be buying another vehicle from Toyota! They took their money and bought an AMERICAN SUV!! Take that Toyota! This just goes to show that Toyota isn't perfect and they are somewhat sneaky if they aren't announcing to the public. They just hope that nobody will find out.

[Sixty8panther]

Yes, I DO know the difference! What I am giving you is personal experiences of what Ohio's salt use can do to a car. If you wnat BOF experience then here some more. My father was a lawyer and back in the '70s one of his clients had a welding shop on Cleveland's near West Side. He always had a good supply of frame repairs to keep him busy, and he even had to reinforce the frame on his '70 Coupe De Ville. I also have personal experience with 2 '69 LTD's, a '72 LTD, a '65 Impala, a '67 Impala, and a car I ran in the Cuyahoga County Fair demo derby in '81,a SEVEN YEAR OLD COUPE DE VILLE! That Caddy was very rotted, and had even been patched up a couple of years before I aquired it. And believe me, the frame on that car didn't do so well. Your mentioning the solidness of your Roadmaster's frame is meaningless when compared to late '60s and '70s cars, due to FAR better rust preventative coatings and better steel alloys. Oh,I forgot another experience, I had a '77 Bonneville that the frame broke at the cowl, this was back in '92 or '93 IIRC. Due to frame rot, of course.

Nice job comparing apples to oranges again.

or, more like apples to starfruit.

[ShadowDog]

I rebuilt a 1983 Nissan 2WD pickup with over 200,000 kms from the frame-up back in 2002. When it came to reinforcements to the frame, all it needed was some added plates to the region directly behind the cab with about a 5" x 8" piece of steel. This was even considered overkill, but since I had it all taken apart, I didn't want to risk having to remove components again if I 'had' to fix it.

If I owned a truck that was less than 10 years old and it wouldn't pass inspection due to frame-rot, I don't care what a manufacturer told me, it's a serious oversight. For anyone to think this is just a bad Friday production run, they've been humping imports so vigorously that they probably have the rising sun tatoo'd on their ass.

[toesuf94]

TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Living Up to Our Commitment

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/03/living-up-t...l?no_prefetch=1

Does anyone else feel that the posts on this blog just seem to be a bit too sugary and, well, fake? A guy in CT , or 'rust hell' had just JUNKED a running truck because of a rusted out frame, and is HAPPY that Toyota is NOW stepping up and replacing these trucks? Um, I don't think they are going to give you a $10,000 check for your scrap metal receipt, are they.

By the way, all of US are idiots for not seeing the bigger picture here: Why are we not buying these POS trucks and taking them to the nearest Toyota dealer for what amounts to a $10,000 check? Start scouring your local junk yards and hauling these puppies out to your Toyota dealer! Then take the money you make and go buy a GM car or truck - bankrupt Toyota and help GM in just a few easy steps!

[CARBIZ]

I am sure you have to be able to prove you've owned the vehicle for X amount of years, first. Just like GM has the Car Heaven program here in Canada ($750 for any old beater more than 13 years old, regardless of condition), you have to be the owner for a minimum of 6 months to qualify.

Toyota is many things, but stupid is not one of them.