Test-drove the G8 GT today

[Lamar]

Pros: Extremely well-mannered on city and neighborhood streets. Sound of engine revs. Driving position. Responsive steering. Not floaty AT ALL, a plus with a car that size. Seats are well-suited to however you decide to drive. Interior, though not elegant, is very functional (my wife will attest to that). More spacious interior than anything except maybe the DTS.

Neither here nor there: I could feel the AFM when it kicked in and when it turned off, but I expected the engine to do that. Couldn't get used to the SportShift mode, but I probably wouldn't use it much anyway.

Cons: I didn't get to thrash the car how I would have liked.

Overall: The G8 GT is easily the most powerful car I have driven in my almost 9 years of driving, and I would have to get used to all those ponies under the hood, not that's a bad thing... My wife liked it too.

When I came back from the drive, I spoke to a guy who came up to look at the car. He said that it was the first G8 he had seen and that he thought it was a GTO at first (he owns one and loves it). We shot the breeze a little bit about the G8 and GTO, then parted company.

For those of y'all who aren't quite sold on the G8 yet, go drive it.

[hyperv6]

Pros: Extremely well-mannered on city and neighborhood streets. Sound of engine revs. Driving position. Responsive steering. Not floaty AT ALL, a plus with a car that size. Seats are well-suited to however you decide to drive. Interior, though not elegant, is very functional (my wife will attest to that). More spacious interior than anything except maybe the DTS.

Neither here nor there: I could feel the AFM when it kicked in and when it turned off, but I expected the engine to do that. Couldn't get used to the SportShift mode, but I probably wouldn't use it much anyway.

Cons: I didn't get to thrash the car how I would have liked.

Overall: The G8 GT is easily the most powerful car I have driven in my almost 9 years of driving, and I would have to get used to all those ponies under the hood, not that's a bad thing... My wife liked it too.

When I came back from the drive, I spoke to a guy who came up to look at the car. He said that it was the first G8 he had seen and that he thought it was a GTO at first (he owns one and loves it). We shot the breeze a little bit about the G8 and GTO, then parted company.

For those of y'all who aren't quite sold on the G8 yet, go drive it.

Thanks For the review. Most of what I have read all agree with you and many say it is the best ponitac since the 60's.

I have been in around and under the car but not yet driven one. If it is an improment of the GTO as I expect it should be a winner.

The GTO was a much more solid car than the 4th Gen F body, there was little chassie flex. I am expecting that same feel with the G8 of being a very solid car.

I agree the interior is not the most stylish but it is very comfortable. Even the back seat can take a 6+footer and make them feel comfortable.

I hope to get may first drive soon.

[Dark Phoenix]

The GTO was a much more solid car than the 4th Gen F body, there was little chassie flex. I am expecting that same feel with the G8 of being a very solid car.

I agree the interior is not the most stylish but it is very comfortable. Even the back seat can take a 6+footer and make them feel comfortable.

Hey hyper. I don't want to give the impression that I'm following you around to argue, because I'm not. lol I just keyed in on these points and wanted to remark on them (and do hope that this doesn't side-track the thread, apologies to the OP - great review btw, good to hear stuff like this).

Regarding solid, the GTO is more solid, yes, but it's also a few hundred pounds heavier. However, the 4th Gen doesn't really flex all that much. Most of what people interpret as flex is a combination of weak interiors and horrid shocks. Those stock shocks (DeCarbons) are the biggest steaming pile of crap to ever get bolted on a car. Put some Bilsteins (especially revalved ones), or Koni SAs on a 4th Gen and it is TOTALLY transformed and whole different beast. With the Bilsteins, you will see massive refinement, and an improvement in handling. With the Koni's you see lots of refinment (just not as much as the Bilsteins), and downright amazing handling.

IIRC, the 4th Gens are something like 45% stiffer than the thirds, were designed to be 'verts from the outset, and I know of one that was road raced, auto-xed and drag raced for well over 100,000 miles and is just fine, and another that was rolled at over 100mph and the driver posted pics later and hte car still looked useable (all ya had to do was replace the C-pillar/sail panel). They are built like tanks. Which is why they are 3500 lbs (when an S-14 Silvia is nearly the same size, with an engine that weighs the same or a few pounds more, and is only 2700 lbs).

Also, I'm 6'2" and 230lbs. And a friend of mine is 6' 170 lbs (way underweight and wasting away). One day we went to track down a noise and I threw him in the back seat and he disappeared back there. Later we switched, and to my utter amazement, I not only fit, but I fit comfortably. Head room is tight, yes, you do have to lean over a little or tilt your head, and you do have to place your knees around the back of the seat in front of you, but(!), you don't interfere with the front occupants and it's not the least bit uncomfortable. It's not a place I'd want to spend several hours in, but up to an hour would be fine really. (and because of this, I have nixed the idea of a rear-seat delete, which I had initially intended to do)

Lamar, when and how did the AFM come on and go off? You said you could feel it. Does it only come on after a set time, or is on the default and you have to matt it to get it to go off and allow full power?

[Lamar]

Lamar, when and how did the AFM come on and go off? You said you could feel it. Does it only come on after a set time, or is on the default and you have to matt it to get it to go off and allow full power?

I felt it turning off (going to 8cyl) the most on downshifts and going uphill. When I was cruising neighborhoods (and cruising in general), the engine felt weaker, like a 4cyl (lol). Strangely, though, I was able to cruise at about 30 MPH at less than 1500 RPMs, something I'm not used to.

Basically, the power's there when you want it, even if only just a little bit.

[hyperv6]

Hey hyper. I don't want to give the impression that I'm following you around to argue, because I'm not. lol I just keyed in on these points and wanted to remark on them (and do hope that this doesn't side-track the thread, apologies to the OP - great review btw, good to hear stuff like this).

Regarding solid, the GTO is more solid, yes, but it's also a few hundred pounds heavier. However, the 4th Gen doesn't really flex all that much. Most of what people interpret as flex is a combination of weak interiors and horrid shocks. Those stock shocks (DeCarbons) are the biggest steaming pile of crap to ever get bolted on a car. Put some Bilsteins (especially revalved ones), or Koni SAs on a 4th Gen and it is TOTALLY transformed and whole different beast. With the Bilsteins, you will see massive refinement, and an improvement in handling. With the Koni's you see lots of refinment (just not as much as the Bilsteins), and downright amazing handling.

IIRC, the 4th Gens are something like 45% stiffer than the thirds, were designed to be 'verts from the outset, and I know of one that was road raced, auto-xed and drag raced for well over 100,000 miles and is just fine, and another that was rolled at over 100mph and the driver posted pics later and hte car still looked useable (all ya had to do was replace the C-pillar/sail panel). They are built like tanks. Which is why they are 3500 lbs (when an S-14 Silvia is nearly the same size, with an engine that weighs the same or a few pounds more, and is only 2700 lbs).

Also, I'm 6'2" and 230lbs. And a friend of mine is 6' 170 lbs (way underweight and wasting away). One day we went to track down a noise and I threw him in the back seat and he disappeared back there. Later we switched, and to my utter amazement, I not only fit, but I fit comfortably. Head room is tight, yes, you do have to lean over a little or tilt your head, and you do have to place your knees around the back of the seat in front of you, but(!), you don't interfere with the front occupants and it's not the least bit uncomfortable. It's not a place I'd want to spend several hours in, but up to an hour would be fine really. (and because of this, I have nixed the idea of a rear-seat delete, which I had initially intended to do)

Lamar, when and how did the AFM come on and go off? You said you could feel it. Does it only come on after a set time, or is on the default and you have to matt it to get it to go off and allow full power?

I understand your love for the F body. They are good cars and the 4th gen was the best they have offered for the Bird.

I have driven, raced, autocrossed and enjoyed everything from 67 400 birds, 74 455 SD, to 4th Gen Camaro and Firehawks.

I know each generation is better and stiffer but the problem has always been either the early unibody or the later T tops. This weakens the car and flexes a platform more than anything. GM did a good job but there is no sub for a solid proper coupe to provide a good platform for good handling and a solid feel.

I am not saying the 4th gen was bad but the GTO had a more solid and quality feel. I have taken both the GTO and Z/28 4th gen around the cones hard and the F body will give you a death shake under extreem connering with some sticky tires. It will make the corner but it will shake. But to be fair it was a t top car and can not be compared equally to the GTO coupe roof. I know the solid roof cars are much stiffer but still the GTO was a more solid car.

45% better than the thirds but the thirds were horrible for flex even in a solid top. But to be fair most 80's cars were.

I have a T top car myself and if has some shake but for the open air that is the price you pay.

Anyway I agree the F body is a very good car but it is far from perfect It was a good car in the 90's but it ain't the 90's anymore. Would I own one yes but I would also be realistic like most other cars and admit it is good but not perfect like many cars. Again time has moved on.

I work in the aftermarket industry and know shocks and the other parts to fix all that F bodys needs. I know their good side and I know what their weaknesses are.

The GTO is far from perfect as a car but it too is a very good car with a very very solid platform. A solid chassie is required for a great handling, driving and riding car.

GM got better with the F body over the years but time moves on and many of todays cars are moving on.

Just wait till the new Camaro appears and you will be shocked at what all it will do. This car will have things that the 4th gen never got or had. Scott Settlemire has promised this car will supass anything before and none of us will be disapointed. With a name like

F bodfather who is to disagree. The G8 is only the start of the new Camaro as the new Camaro will take this even to the next level.

[Dark Phoenix]

camaro.....

I may own a car build on the F chassis, but I bought a Trans Am. My 3rd one in fact. Because I wanted a Trans Am. Not "an F-Body". Sure as hell not a frickin camaro. GM got my attention, my money, and (so far at least) die-hard loyalty, which has lead to me carrying the banner everywhere and talking up the virtues and defending the 'faith' through the roughest of times to the toughest of critics. But if they go and slap a GTO badge on a camaro twin, when it's just as easy (and more proper) to put a Firebird badge on it..... If they piss on us like that..... I'll look into a Challenger SRT8 6-speed. (and it's a real shame because it'll be a hard decision at that point to buy a Solstice Coupe, when so far it would be an obvious no-brainer [not for the same reasons or purpose, mind you])

As for time moving on, well, perhaps. The Duesenberg can still smoke many Korean white good appliances on 4 wheels. And the WS6 can still out run MANY cars from many years after it's end of production. Which is actually all the more impressive when you consider that the design really stagnated in '99. Cars that are considered "performers" today. Even in stock trim, but especially with a set of Brembo blanks, better pads, and some Konis (+1000 if you toss in Strano springs and sways). It truly shocks many people to learn what it can do (and I'm not implying you, please don't mis-understand that, I mean the import guys mostly). So saying "time has moved on" really isn't fair, and in my personal opinion, not really relevant, since nothing else matches the styling, let alone the styling combined with the utility, performance and bang for the buck.

So Lamar, another question, did you aggressively change lanes or toss it around at all? A common complaint seems to be a lack of roll stiffness. Apparently they don't want to stiffen the springs or shocks any more and lose that nice ride, but I have to wonder why they didn't just add more bar. (or even a touch more rebound damping, but that's still no substitute for bar) I wonder if it's as bad as all the mag reviews claim. To listen to them it practially scrapes it's door handles.

I wonder if the Stabilitrak is tied into the DoD. Seems it would be much more effective than pulling timing or forcng the throttle closed.

[Lamar]

So Lamar, another question, did you aggressively change lanes or toss it around at all? A common complaint seems to be a lack of roll stiffness. Apparently they don't want to stiffen the springs or shocks any more and lose that nice ride, but I have to wonder why they didn't just add more bar. (or even a touch more rebound damping, but that's still no substitute for bar) I wonder if it's as bad as all the mag reviews claim. To listen to them it practially scrapes it's door handles.

I wonder if the Stabilitrak is tied into the DoD. Seems it would be much more effective than pulling timing or forcng the throttle closed.

I didn't get much chance to toss it around, unfortunately. Remind me to do that next time I test one.

[zabolots]

I'm surprised that I keep reading about people being able to feel when AFM toggles ON/OFF. I've got a Grand Prix GXP with AFM (formerly DoD) and I can never tell when it toggles. I guess it's probably due to AFM in the G8 kicking in while in lower gears (3-6 I believe) while on the GXP I believe it was only in 4th (top) gear.

[zhawk]

Dark Phoenix, your disdain of the Camaro is getting more than a little boring and tiresome. Without the Camaro your Trans Am wouldn't have ever happened. Check out the history.

Anyway, as of the last time I heard there was no plans on having a Camaro twin this generation. The G8 in all its forms is Pontiacs V8 RWD car for now and possibly for the forseeable future.

Back on topic, I should check out the local dealership to see if they have gotten a G8. If so, hopefully they haven't pulled their normal garbage and saddled it with an extra $5-8K markup. Thanks for the writeup Lamar.

[Dark Phoenix]

I am well aware of the history, thank you. So much so that that I am aware of how (a lot of) the success of what you feel it so necesary to defend is owed to the Trans Am. lol (2nd Gen chassis - Pontiac, Corvette 350 use - thanks to Pontiac's petitioning of top brass, luxuries and options - trickle down from Pontiac. That's just to name a few. They both owe a lot to each other, it's just that the chevy is, well... a chevy. [And there is a reason I don't hang out in and post in that section ])

Edited March 28, 2008 by Dark Phoenix

[zhawk]

I am well aware of the history, thank you. So much so that that I am aware of how (a lot of) the success of what you feel it so necesary to defend is owed to the Trans Am. lol (2nd Gen chassis - Pontiac, Corvette 350 use - thanks to Pontiac's petitioning of top brass, luxuries and options - trickle down from Pontiac. That's just to name a few. They both owe a lot to each other, it's just that the chevy is, well... a chevy. [And there is a reason I don't hang out in and post in that section ])

I 'don't feel it necessary to defend' anything. It's just that all of the true auto enthuests that I have met (and that's a huge number) will give credit where it is due. Your negative attitude towards the car that is directly responsible for the existance for the Firebird detracts from many of your statements and take away from many of your good points.

Now, if you don't like the Camaro, fine. That is your choice. But, you have made your preference known, let it go and move on.

(Sorry to anyone else for the minor hijacking of this thread.)

[Dark Phoenix]

I 'don't feel it necessary to defend' anything. It's just that all of the true auto enthuests that I have met (and that's a huge number) will give credit where it is due. Your negative attitude towards the car that is directly responsible for the existance for the Firebird detracts from many of your statements and take away from many of your good points.

Now, if you don't like the Camaro, fine. That is your choice. But, you have made your preference known, let it go and move on.

(Sorry to anyone else for the minor hijacking of this thread.)

lol I respond when and how necessary. It was suggested that I/We buy the lower end counter part, from the "everyman" brand rather than DEMANDING the car we want back. Funny how it was ok for you lot to rally and rant until you got it back, but now we have to remain silent.

Too many people seem to think "well it's the same thing" and "they steal sales from each other" and "there's no point in making them both" and that's all total crap. Hyper wasn't trying to set me off and I wasn't trying to argue with him, but he more or less implied that I should transition to a sub-par version. That I should lower my standards and accept whatever GM deigns to offer me. Or perhaps, more to the point, he didn't realize that I don't give a crap about chassis designations and that drive-train layout is but a mere background requirement. Always hated camaros - even before I gave a crap about Pontiacs or had any brand loyalty. Fell in love with the Trans Am. There is VALUE in producing both.

But see, we wouldn't have dragged this further off topic if you didn't feel personally attacked and try to tell me to STFU. That tends to have a negative reaction. lol

Believe it or not, I don't seek out opportunities to talk trash about it, and would be perfectly happy to never have to even think about it.

So what say we just go back to on topic?

Edited March 28, 2008 by Dark Phoenix

[Dark Phoenix]

I didn't get much chance to toss it around, unfortunately. Remind me to do that next time I test one.

Well get to it man! Chop chop!

[Camino LS6]

Hmm.

Well DP, there are factual problems with your position - but let's ignore that for a moment.

Think about this: What the 5th gen Camaro will be bringing to the table remains an unknown at this point and to judge it now is a pointless endeavor.

And, it is rather unusual to hear such animosity by an owner/fan of one F-body for the other one. They really are so closely related that this seems absurd. Good natured ribbing is common, but a lack of respect is odd - and somewhat off-putting.

Finally (putting on my admin hat), you really should dial it back a notch or two for the sake of peace on the forums.

Just some friendly advice.

[Lamar]

Well get to it man! Chop chop!

Let me get back to Maryland, and I'll see if I can find one.

[hyperv6]

lol I respond when and how necessary. It was suggested that I/We buy the lower end counter part, from the "everyman" brand rather than DEMANDING the car we want back. Funny how it was ok for you lot to rally and rant until you got it back, but now we have to remain silent.

Too many people seem to think "well it's the same thing" and "they steal sales from each other" and "there's no point in making them both" and that's all total crap. Hyper wasn't trying to set me off and I wasn't trying to argue with him, but he more or less implied that I should transition to a sub-par version. That I should lower my standards and accept whatever GM deigns to offer me. Or perhaps, more to the point, he didn't realize that I don't give a crap about chassis designations and that drive-train layout is but a mere background requirement. Always hated camaros - even before I gave a crap about Pontiacs or had any brand loyalty. Fell in love with the Trans Am. There is VALUE in producing both.

But see, we wouldn't have dragged this further off topic if you didn't feel personally attacked and try to tell me to STFU. That tends to have a negative reaction. lol

Believe it or not, I don't seek out opportunities to talk trash about it, and would be perfectly happy to never have to even think about it.

So what say we just go back to on topic?

DP I am impressed with your knowledge of Pontiac history as some your age do not know what a Tripower is. I am also impressed with your love of the Bird and Pontiac in general.

Now here is the other shoe. I don't care what you drive or want. We here repect what your choice is and I never once suggested that you buy a lower end counter part, I only gave my opinion and that was it. It kind of goes like this, you epress yourself, I express myself and we can discuss differance of opinion and the like. But the bottom line is repsect others and they will repect you here.

If I feel the GTO is stiffer [due to no t top] I have a right to express that and it is my opinion, not a comment to you or yours.

I also know the 4th gen Camaro is no less or more a car than the Trans Am/Firebird. I myself prefer the TA but know and accept the Camaro as a sister car with only some body changes, and interior trim. In the past the difference was greater some years but never too much. You may not want to agree and that is fine.

While you may find it hard to accept Too many people seem to think "well it's the same thing" and "they steal sales from each other" It is clear to many very informed people here and to GM that your not correct here.

Or did you not know the original plan was to sell the GTO as a longer wheeel base Zeta with more upgraded options at a higher price to give Pontiac a coupe but not one that would be nearly the same as the Camaro. Tha GTO was the Manaro 60 coupe just shown and canceled. Right now the Zeta program is in flux to say the least and adding a sister Bird right now is not a priority to sell 40K cars.

You have to think with your brain not your heart to pick and choose car lines. GM does not take these things lightly and only was doing what was in the companys best interest. A car like a new Bird could help GM a little in sales and profit but if it fails it could hurt it much more than it could ever help. Right now they have a priority of selling a V6 Camaro. Heck Ford even dropped the Capri for the same reason.

I think you should heed Camino's words and take a breath. We are all GM fans here. We may have some harsh words at times but we are also the first to defend. Kind of like a family. We so have some people here involved in many parts of the industry and even one of the best spy photgs around.

There is a lot to learn here so read a lot and try to learn how we operate as this is not like many other idiot site out there. Most people here understand how the industry works and we do not go off on a lot of goofy things, We deal in a lot of facts and reality here and don't get all goofy over the latest fake chop photo of a car we know GM will not build or where to bolt our neon lights.

With your knowledge and understanding your amung friends here you should fit in well. You will not always like what you read and can present you proof why we are wrong. But be prepared to back up any claims you have as we like what is said backed up.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Better go test drive one while you can... TICK TOCK!

(I figured PCS is pretty busy ruining GM, so I'll just make one of his usual troll posts for him)

[zhawk]

DP - Believe it or not I wasn't attacking you or your prefenences. I just stated that it was getting in the way of the valid points you were making.

As for the 'stealing sales from each other', sorry, that's not just our opinion but the belief of those in GM, and we aren't just talking beancounters. Some pretty passionate people who have been involved in both programs have stated the same thing. That said, the F-Bodies don't account for enough sales to create two different versions of them at this time. Now, that may change. For now, though, the Camaro is it.

I am hoping that Pontiac can do enough with the G8 lineup to justify a coupe. A Firebird/Trans Am based of the Holden 60 Coupe would do more for GM than a near clone of the Camaro. Even if they called such a coupe GTO, it would be more advantageous.

I hope that you will read this clearly and without judgement. I am a HUGE fan of the Trans Am (I would love both a 69 and an 89 Turbo in my garage) and have owned 2 Firebirds in the past.

Take care.

[Camino LS6]

Well said, my friends (except for FOG)

J/K FOG

For me both Chevy and Pontiac have been my passion, so it's hard to think of them in opposition to each other. I've owned some killer examples from both brands and hope to continue to enjoy them both.

[Blake Noble]

There was a nice, tidy little crowd checking the G8 out over at my local Pontiac dealer. I will take that as a very, very good sign.

Tick-what?

[hyperv6]

Ok lets save the hate for bad jokes, stale beer and Mustangs.

Now back to the G8.

I don't know if they will go with the Coupe now and the later it gets I see the effort going to the Alpha that can and will live on past 2020. I just see with the hold the Alpha changing like the Zeta did to be more adaptable and expanded to more vehicles than originally intended.

With Ford looking at a lighter platform GM is sure to invest in a lighter platform as they continue to sell the Zetas till they will be replaced.

The only thing that would save Zeta long term is if they can remove weight and not kill the good prices they have.

I just read about the new SAAB XWD and though that could make a good Pontiac platform if they can pice it right. But I am not sure of the cost of the drivetrain system.

Edited March 29, 2008 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

Ok lets save the hate for bad jokes, stale beer and Mustangs.

Now back to the G8.

I don't know if they will go with the Coupe now and the later it gets I see the effort going to the Alpha that can and will live on past 2020. I just see with the hold the Alpha changing like the Zeta did to be more adaptable and expanded to more vehicles than originally intended.

With Ford looking at a lighter platform GM is sure to invest in a lighter platform as they continue to sell the Zetas till they will be replaced.

The only thing that would save Zeta long term is if they can remove weight and not kill the good prices they have.

I just read about the new SAAB XWD and though that could make a good Pontiac platform if they can pice it right. But I am not sure of the cost of the drivetrain system.

It's all about the product mix and how the new regs come down. If DC gets off its lazy backside and gets those regs settled relatively soon, we could see more Zetas (at least for a time). Long term, I hope GM can find a way to keep the Zetas at Pontiac even if they have to remain low-volume products.

[zhawk]

It's all about the product mix and how the new regs come down. If DC gets off its lazy backside and gets those regs settled relatively soon, we could see more Zetas (at least for a time). Long term, I hope GM can find a way to keep the Zetas at Pontiac even if they have to remain low-volume products.

Agreed. But when has DC ever gotten their act together. Con is the opposite of pro and we should all know what that makes congress.

Heck, I am a gov't employee and I have no delusions of the compentancy of our elected officials, of either party, in any area of gov't.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Better go test drive one while you can... TICK TOCK!

(I figured PCS is pretty busy ruining GM, so I'll just make one of his usual troll posts for him)

If your going to quote me, please do it right! "Better get one while you can, TICK-TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:"

Edited March 29, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Camino LS6]

Agreed. But when has DC ever gotten their act together. Con is the opposite of pro and we should all know what that makes congress.

Heck, I am a gov't employee and I have no delusions of the compentancy of our elected officials, of either party, in any area of gov't.

Sad but true.

[hyperv6]

It's all about the product mix and how the new regs come down. If DC gets off its lazy backside and gets those regs settled relatively soon, we could see more Zetas (at least for a time). Long term, I hope GM can find a way to keep the Zetas at Pontiac even if they have to remain low-volume products.

I don't expect anything much till after the election. They are all out for the eviro vote. Once they get elected it will be back to what ever fits their need best. Right now with the economy it is not a good time to get oo crazy on the auto industry.

At least that is what I think two of them will do. The third is a wild card and some of the people backing him are not buisness freindly.

Either way DC will drag their feet on this is my gut feeling for a while longer.

GM at this point has to set dates to decide to make moves with their present platforms and where they are going to spend their money to get the most out of it. The longer DC drags this out the less chance of new Zetas and a better chance GM will put the money into new platforms.

Just my guess.

I would really love to see a 60 coupe for about 8 years before the regs kick in.

[knightfan26917]

Better go test drive one while you can...

IF...you are actually ALLOWED to.

As I noted in the "G8s are finally arriving" thread, a friend of mine went to a dealership to check it out and hopefully test drive one to see if he wants to buy that over a BMW. Long story short (more in the G8s are finally arriving thread), he wasn't allowed to ... and thus, probably won't consider Pontiac again.

*sighs*

And, after MY experience today ... well, yeah, let's just say GM is doing their darnest to keep me away for good.

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve&pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"I'm ashamed of my life" ... Kelly Clarkson ... 'Because Of You'

[SAmadei]

IF...you are actually ALLOWED to.

As I noted in the "G8s are finally arriving" thread, a friend of mine went to a dealership to check it out and hopefully test drive one to see if he wants to buy that over a BMW. Long story short (more in the G8s are finally arriving thread), he wasn't allowed to ... and thus, probably won't consider Pontiac again.

*sighs*

Yeah, I haven't found a dealer willing to let me take a serious test drive yet, either.

[knightfan26917]

Finally had the chance to look at a G8 up close.

Stopped at another dealer on the way home ... and the saleslady walked outside with me and opened the car up so I could take a look at it. Didn't test drive it (no time), but sat in it and looked around.

Impressive.

Except ... read the brochure closer when I got home.... The V6 G8 is only EPA rated at 17mpg. How on EARTH is that possible? My '87 MC LS (305 V8) gets that consistently ... and sometimes BETTER (18-19mpg).....

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve&pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Watch over them for me" ... Darryl Worley ... 'If Something Should Happen'

[turbo200]

Finally had the chance to look at a G8 up close.

Stopped at another dealer on the way home ... and the saleslady walked outside with me and opened the car up so I could take a look at it. Didn't test drive it (no time), but sat in it and looked around.

Impressive.

Except ... read the brochure closer when I got home.... The V6 G8 is only EPA rated at 17mpg. How on EARTH is that possible? My '87 MC LS (305 V8) gets that consistently ... and sometimes BETTER (18-19mpg).....

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve&pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Watch over them for me" ... Darryl Worley ... 'If Something Should Happen'

lax safety regulations from that time led to impressive weights [relative to today] from the cars which led to better fuel economy. less of a fixation on hp. most importantly, the tests from today are strict, and I think it's easy to get better gas mileage, it all depends on your commute and what part of the country you're in. I believe the tests today take into account extreme city driving, which only occurs in extreme congested cities, though I'm only basing this assumption on seeing many reports of people beeating the city rating, and my own and friends' experience wiht our cars in the great city of Los Angeles.

[regfootball]

I test drove a G8 GT today. I will have time later to post a little review later tonight.

Nice enough car, but it's too much car for me. I wanted to drive the v6......will have to wait to test that.

Edited April 5, 2008 by regfootball

[caddycruiser]

I test drove a G8 GT today. I will have time later to post a little review later tonight.

Nice enough car, but it's too much car for me. I wanted to drive the v6......will have to wait to test that.

Even 2 lines, that sounds like the review I'd have...great, but a little much in GT form for a daily. Now if only I could get around to driving one...a cloth/sunroof/V6.

[regfootball]

yup, too much.

first off, the car is drop dead sexy. you almost need to get a room with yourself after looking at a g8 because it is a gorgeous car.

aside from that, you can acclimate yourself ergonomically pretty quickly and stuff falls to hand nicely. I was bothered by mirror and window switches on the console. THEY SHOULD BE ON THE DOOR. The climate control display is like on my 500, too low.....but at least it has large buttons and nice rotary controls. Yet we have the stupid bar graph voltmeter thingie at the top of the center stack.....dumb. So you have to take your eyes off the road to see the nice color radio display. shame. Mirrors are small. Seats, steering wheel nice and adjustable. Gauges are nice and readable.

You really become aware of the massive size of the car once you get driving. Visibility is alright......originally i never grasped just how much rear leg room this car has until we got our seats adjusted....my gosh there is leg room. But the car is WIDE too, normally i am ok with this but this car has serious girth, maybe just a tish too much for me. Seating was lower than i was used to however it is just fine by 95% of sedan standards.

The A pillars are NOT an issue.

Also, this is a very quiet car, until the goodyear RS-A's (LOUD TIRES, i have had them before) start making howling noises on concrete as they are quiet on asphalt. I will never buy another car with RS-A's if i can help it.

In addition to the physical size of the car seeming a bit much.......i noticed the weight of the car, which is weird. My 500 does not weigh much less but feels a lot lighter and nimbler.....although....yes, the g8 has quicker but heavy steering and firm, ok STIFF suspension. I am sure the steering is to keep things from getting out of hand. I guess I would say the car feels like a stiff riding big car, a capable one, and not numb, certainly by no means mushy, but not at all sprightly. Secure, yes, firm (too firm, actually).

the v8 did not rev as fast as I am used to a car revving. yes it has power, but to access it you really got to prod the throttle and the tranny was slow to kick. i am used to instant rpm on my 500 and this car you just have to wake it from a slumber to access the hellfire under the hood that is canned up. manual mode was good and reacted nicely, but the shifter is ass backwards IMHO. oddly, i had driven a used GTO today also prior to this test drive and the engines indeed both have that 'gotta wake it from its slumber' sort of behavior. since traffic was always bad, i could not brutally flog the car so maybe it will be more engaging if driven 9/10th. Maybe it is an issue of getting to know the car and all the nuances of it in order to coax it into being bad.

As a road trip car, of course it should excel, aside from the too initially stiff and initially uncompliant ride.

The car does feel worth all of its price. It was interesting the contrast....right after driving the g8 i drove a 4 cylinder 5 speed accord EX and to be honest as a daily driver that car was more sprightly and engaging and offers similar space. I know the accord will not be capable of the gaudy g8 performance but in city driving the accord can be driven adequately aggressively i think. I had the accord SW leaping out of my hands and was spinning the drive wheels with only the 4 popper.....and its steering feel was more instant and its ride less harsh (although i thought that car was a bit too non compliant also).

I told salesguy I will want to drive the v6......my hope is the cammy feel of the DOHC v6, revving quicker, and just giving me the horsepower i need with a little less weight on the front end will maybe be a better drive for the daily grind.

i remember how much i liked my magnum 3.5 rental last year. that car was a good daily driver type of car and not as firm as the g8.

I wish black was not the only interior color.

I know this probably reveals that the g8 is maybe a bit tightly wound for old aging me. But cars can have sporting suspension AND some ride suppleness.....which my 89 SHO had.

For me, it's a wait and see thing. Now at least I know a v6 may be better for me.....and maybe this isn't the car for me. If the car had the DI v6 and just some more initial bump compliance i could be jacked about it. I just think the v8 small block is not my kind of engine, i really like the sound of overhead cam engines better.

it should be interesting to see how the zeta camaro turns out, if it feels a bit tanklike, like this.

note: the power seats still only have manual backrest adjustment.

Edited April 6, 2008 by regfootball

[Blake Noble]

Yeah, I haven't found a dealer willing to let me take a serious test drive yet, either.

I didn't drive it, but my dealer let me crawl all over the black GT model they had, greasy mustard-soaked DQ double cheeseburger in hand!

[The O.C.]

I just think the v8 small block is not my kind of engine, i really like the sound of overhead cam engines better.

That's perhaps the only complaint I really ever had about my '06 Corvette......was the engine still had that "lumbering" lack-of-willingness to rev that all pushrod engines seem to suffer from. AND my car was a 6-speed manual.

Of course, there's tons of power and torque on tap.....but aside from the sheer grunt, (which, no question, was there in abundance)......the Corvette engine was never as pleasurable to drive, from a tactile standpoint, than most, if not all, DOHC V8s I've been in (even a Northstar.)

With the Corvette, you never even had a chance to wind it up to redline......it just ran out of steam way too early. Get into a BMW V8 or something else, and you are almost bouncing off the rev-limiter when you run it through the gears. There's a certain, really distiguishable pleasure in that......that if one doesn't really have alot of experience with, they probably wouldn't understand.

The LS2 engines, (all variants really) are great engines that produce incredible power and economy. It's not brand- or powertrain-snobbery, it's simply a tactile pleasure that's lacking in the GM pushrod V8s. Fortunately, they don't seem to suffer quite as much as GM's pushrod V6s did (or do.)

That's perhaps the only reason I'm a bit overly-cautious about GM substituting the LS V8s for a modern DOHC V8 in Cadillacs of the future..........

Edited April 6, 2008 by The O.C.

[Camino LS6]

Never liked rev happy engines, nor very compliant suspensions.

So, ironically, what reg saw as a downside makes me want one even more. :AH-HA_wink:

[The O.C.]

Never liked rev happy engines, nor very compliant suspensions.

So, ironically, what reg saw as a downside makes me want one even more. :AH-HA_wink:

Remember......nowadays......"rev-happy" doesn't necessarily mean "no-torque-down-low" anymore.

[Camino LS6]

Remember......nowadays......"rev-happy" doesn't necessarily mean "no-torque-down-low" anymore.

That's not the whole of things for me, although I love torque more than horsepower. I just have never liked "high -winders" at all. The notion that my engine is just "loafing " at highway speeds makes me smile. Small, wound out engines just are like fingenails on a chalkboard to me.

[CaddyXLR-V]

The G8 GT is going to be slower to rev than even a Corvette or a GTO, since it has AFM, which adds extra weight to the drivetrain. If I get a G8, it would have to be the GXP manual version, because I don't want AFM. I'm guessing only the V6 and GXP are going to get manuals as an option for the same reason.

When I drive the GTO, it can appear to be in "slumber mode" when just driving the car around and not getting on it. I think it is necessary to be able to drive the car in any sort of a docile manner.

[Camino LS6]

The G8 GT is going to be slower to rev than even a Corvette or a GTO, since it has AFM, which adds extra weight to the drivetrain. If I get a G8, it would have to be the GXP manual version, because I don't want AFM. I'm guessing only the V6 and GXP are going to get manuals as an option for the same reason.

When I drive the GTO, it can appear to be in "slumber mode" when just driving the car around and not getting on it. I think it is necessary to be able to drive the car in any sort of a docile manner.

All true.

I'm waiting for the announcement of the GXP sport truck (with manual).

[SuperSport623]

im the opposite too... id take a small block over an OHC anything anyday,.... gobs of torque and power from like 250 RPM up

power down low > power up high IMO... though i have seen some high RPM small blocks that sound almost unnatural..

[caddycruiser]

Great review, reg, you seem to mirror my thoughts on daily driver cars to a T :AH-HA_wink:

Interestingly enough, sounds like for you, if they had kept the original plan of V6 cars coming with a bit softer FE1 suspension and then V8's with the FE2, that might have turned you on more. If you remember reading some of the initial press reviews, they talked at length how Pontiac engineers were still not sure on that even late in the game, but all of the mag reviewers (of course) praised the FE2 as perfect and the other as a bit too soft (probably wasn't, but you know...), and that they should make that the standard. Didn't take long and they did. Not a bad thing, as the last word you want associated with the G8 is soft of any kind, but still an interesting thing to remember after your review.

I really like the G8, especially in looks, size, RWD, etc., but overall it still does hit that "too much" for me thing as a daily car. Then again, I drive a LT1 powered Fleetwood everyday that's longer than a Suburban, so hmm. Especially after my '07 rental experience (4-cyl Malibu) and mom's new 2.4L Malibu that I picked out and am infatuated with, I really have taken to that lighter, FWD, tossable, zingy and efficient 4-cyl layout--still with great looks, room, etc.

It's a toss-up, of course. Hopefully you'll be able to get some V6 seat time soon enough and really be able to see if it's more of a maybe or a no.

[CaddyXLR-V]

After reading everyone's reviews of the G8, it makes me want one more. I'm happy they did not soften the suspension. All it needs now is a 430hp 6.3L, 6 speed manual, and 2 less doors, and I'd be at the dealership.

[Camino LS6]

After reading everyone's reviews of the G8, it makes me want one more. I'm happy they did not soften the suspension. All it needs now is a 430hp 6.3L, 6 speed manual, and 2 less doors, and I'd be at the dealership.

...and a bed. :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

its one thing to stiffen the suspension to allow it to perform on the track and in the twisties, but to me it's like they can go to a whole new level of effort so they can keep that high performance but allow it to have a little bit more suppleness in daily traffic where you use the car the most.

i hear bmw is adept at that.

maybe i need a couple more test drives on some different roads and more seat time. maybe its a matter of getting used to it.

Edited April 7, 2008 by regfootball

[turbo200]

two things I'm thinking about your impressions reg-

one is that you maybe didn't let the suspension really warm up? a lot of times, suspension characteristics will change as you drive harder, drive for longer periods of time, drive at consistent highway speeds, or drive aggressively with aggressive input say for repeated cornering. just thinking that maybe you only drove one specific way. cars these days have suspensions that are strongly reactive to driver input, well some cars, and so their 'ride quality' character may take some to actually familiarize yourself with and get comfortable with.

the other thing I'm thinking is that you just don't like sports suspensions. no magazine has complained about the suspension settings, in fact they've lauded GM for sticking to FE3 and lauded the level of compliance with the right amount of grip and damping.

so either you really didn't fully test the cars capabilities and you just got in, just drove you know 50 straight for a while, after some hothead driver had been putting the pedal to the metal, racing around corners. this could be true. or you justs didn't 'get' it.

My next question would be have you tested the CTS. because that seems like it would be a good barometer for the stiffness of G8, especially in sport mode.

as for me, when it comes to suspensions, you can't get too stiff, am I right or am I right? [double-entendre]

[regfootball]

for me, my old 89 SHO had the perfect blend of ride stiffness and suspension / ride forgiveness. my 99 SHO had too much impact harshness although the ride was good.

let's settle on the difference between simply a stiff suspension and one that is designed and has quality parts that it can perform and have some suppleness on bumps as well.

one time on a day off i drove a BMW 3 series non sport package and a CTS 3.2. That CTS was probably the most fave car I have driven or close to it. The BMW was nice but to be honest was too tame. i thought that BMW was a bit soft and floppy. the cts had perfect ride handling and steering, and was not intially harsh on bumps like that G8 was.

now the g8 drive was short, maybe 15 miles on mostly freeway at maybe 60 mph average. but in spring the roads here are harsh with freeze thaw and potholes and various pavement breaks. so suspension compliance and road noise and tire noise were under big scrutiny.

tires have a lot to do with it also . that 89 SHO i had had what was at the time new goodyear first gen or second gen eagle aquatreds which had a sticky but soft and quiet tread. it was the quietest car I have ever driven when you took it on the highway and weren't abusing the throttle. the g8 had the evil RS-A tires, which are the performance tire equivalent of a barely adequate performer. my 99 sho had those tires on it and even though they are surprisingly adequate in rain and even some snow, they ride hard, are hard tires, and make assloads of whining noise on concrete, they are even not all that quiet on asphalt. perhaps on a g8 with real tires on it (that aren't like round bricks) and some time for the suspension to break in, like afew thou miles....maybe it falls into the ok range.

that is why i think i may need to go another test drive later....but even so I probably don't need the small block. maybe it was the AFM or whatever, but that v8 did not rev quickly and it took quite a bit of thottle to get it to wake up. If you stood on the throttle it came alive, after a brief hiatus.

even with all that power on tap, i don't want to have to abuse the gas pedal just to get the revs up and to get it to zing the tach.

but i usually have favored OHC motors.....it could just be i hadn't figured out the magic sweet spots on the gas pedal to make the car fly or maybe i was just too bashful with the sales guy with. i sure drove the p1ss out of the accord i drove right after that.

the interesting difference between the GTO and G8 was how much noise and vibration was present in the GTO and the G8 was a kitty in comparison.

my guess is the CTS has an extra amount of suspension refinement that the g8 maybe doesn't immediately seem to have, as well as having different suspension packages available as well.

Edited April 8, 2008 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

two things I'm thinking about your impressions reg-

one is that you maybe didn't let the suspension really warm up? a lot of times, suspension characteristics will change as you drive harder, drive for longer periods of time, drive at consistent highway speeds, or drive aggressively with aggressive input say for repeated cornering. just thinking that maybe you only drove one specific way. cars these days have suspensions that are strongly reactive to driver input, well some cars, and so their 'ride quality' character may take some to actually familiarize yourself with and get comfortable with.

the other thing I'm thinking is that you just don't like sports suspensions. no magazine has complained about the suspension settings, in fact they've lauded GM for sticking to FE3 and lauded the level of compliance with the right amount of grip and damping.

so either you really didn't fully test the cars capabilities and you just got in, just drove you know 50 straight for a while, after some hothead driver had been putting the pedal to the metal, racing around corners. this could be true. or you justs didn't 'get' it.

My next question would be have you tested the CTS. because that seems like it would be a good barometer for the stiffness of G8, especially in sport mode.

as for me, when it comes to suspensions, you can't get too stiff, am I right or am I right? [double-entendre]

The stiffer, the better........

And as far as suspensions go......I like 'em stiff too......

J/K....

Seriously......a stiff suspension can still be comfortable if the structure is solid and the chassis tuning is spot-on. This is what BMW, for example, has done extraordiarily well with their cars. The BMW 3-series' that I had with the sport package were, if anything, stiffer even than the Corvette that I had. Yet, also, they were way more comfortable, composed, luxurious. It's a rare combination of springs, shocks, and damping levels that really make a difference.

My CTS Sport and A4 Quattro S-Line are two examples in the extreme.........CTS is soft on the road, maybe slightly floaty, but definitely tuned to smother the freeway ride. However, roll control is EXCELLENT.....bend it into a curve and it hardly rolls, and transitions nicely from very miniimal understeer to nicely-controllable oversteer.

The Audi, on the other hand, has that really taughtly-damped ride that makes the car feel rock-solid. You feel every bump in the road.....but because the structure is so tight and the chassis is tuned so well, it's still comfortable. However, throw the Audi into the same curve as the CTS, and it rolls a bit more and due to the nose-heavy drivetrain, moderate to major understeer is really the only attitude the chassis will throw at you.

On a mountain, winding, two-lane road, I'll take the CTS over the A4. It's simply more responsive at the limits. However, for day-to-day driving, I really do like the more snubbed-down feel of the A4. (Options are key on this car....you have to have Quattro with the "S-Line" package that includes the stiffest suspension and 18-inch wheels/tires.)

[prinzSD]

Dark Phoenix, your disdain of the Camaro is getting more than a little boring and tiresome. Without the Camaro your Trans Am wouldn't have ever happened. Check out the history.

Anyway, as of the last time I heard there was no plans on having a Camaro twin this generation. The G8 in all its forms is Pontiacs V8 RWD car for now and possibly for the forseeable future.

Back on topic, I should check out the local dealership to see if they have gotten a G8. If so, hopefully they haven't pulled their normal garbage and saddled it with an extra $5-8K markup. Thanks for the writeup Lamar.

I checked out two local dealers in the San Francisco/Bay area (Concord, Antioch) and each dealer had one base and one GT. The base was marked up 3,000 and the GT was marked up 5,000. Seems they learned a little from the GTO fiasco where the Antioch dealer intitially slapped on a 10,000 to 12,000 mark up on the 2004 GTO. They are also willing to let you take it for a small spin , again unlike the 2004 GTO where they would not let me test drive it.

[K.C.]

I didn't drive it, but my dealer let me crawl all over the black GT model they had, greasy mustard-soaked DQ double cheeseburger in hand!

That it! You're not flogging my G8 when I get it if you are gonna abuse it with a greasy mustard soaked DQ double cheeseburger. No eating in the car kids!