There is a Guy Who...

[NOS2006]

...absolutely knows his $h! when it comes to subjects relating to Cobalts and/or forced induction. He's a local and is one of the first guys to turn his '05 SS/SC into a turbocharged car. He also got another guy on the local Cobalt/Ecotec board to turn his SS/SC turbo (in the process being finished up right now). He really does know his stuff and does his own researching on all this.

Well the other night I had a dream. Here, I'll quote what I posted on that other board:

So I had a crazy dream that Bryan convinced me to be the first TT Cobalt... We fully rebuilt the engine and decided to go with a small turbo for the lower RPMs and a bigger one for the upper RPMs. Needless to say, my car was crazy quick and had a weird tune to it (I remember shifting into third around 75 MPH and into fourth around 115 or 120), but damn it I flew through third like it was nothing. And it sounded better than the best sounding WRX and SRT4 you could possibly imagine.

I don't know why I had that dream, but it was pure ecstasy.

After posting that, he told me that he's thought many times about getting rid of his turbo and swapping in a twin setup. He's done all the research and knows exactly what he would run, and it could be done on a safe tune with a stock bottom end and valvetrain.

Everybody knows that turbo > supercharger, and I could do this swap quite cheap (<2k minus supercharger and parts I could sell that I already bought and won't use). I'm seriously considering it. In the summer I plan on getting coilovers and rims, but I think I might forget about that, forget about the mods I plan to do when it gets warmer (smaller pulley, yadda yadda), and just swap the supercharger.

Thoughts? How insane am I? The thought of being the only TT Cobalt is badass, let alone being quick as hell.

Edited March 24, 2008 by NOS2006

[SuperSport623]

...absolutely knows his &#036;h&#33; when it comes to subjects relating to Cobalts and/or forced induction. He's a local and is one of the first guys to turn his '05 SS/SC into a turbocharged car. He also got another guy on the local Cobalt/Ecotec board to turn his SS/SC turbo (in the process being finished up right now). He really does know his stuff and does his own researching on all this.

Well the other night I had a dream. Here, I'll quote what I posted on that other board:

After posting that, he told me that he's thought many times about getting rid of his turbo and swapping in a twin setup. He's done all the research and knows exactly what he would run, and it could be done on a safe tune with a stock bottom end and valvetrain.

Everybody knows that turbo > supercharger, and I could do this swap quite cheap (<2k minus supercharger and parts I could sell that I already bought and won't use). I'm seriously considering it. In the summer I plan on getting coilovers and rims, but I think I might forget about that, forget about the mods I plan to do when it gets warmer (smaller pulley, yadda yadda), and just swap the supercharger.

Thoughts? How insane am I? The thought of being the only TT Cobalt is badass, let alone being quick as hell.

DO it! it sounds like a sick idea... just make sure your bottom end and tranny can handle it....remember to post pictures during the process and to wear a diaper on the first ride :AH-HA_wink:

[NOS2006]

He said he pushed his and the head, cam, intake manifold, and cylinder sleeves max out around 410 whp. He said I really won't have a problem with the trans unless I'm retarded.

On the supercharger, about 300 WHP will kill the #4 piston. However, on a turbo, because of the cooler, much more even flowing air, it can do much more than that and I shouldn't have to worry about the bottom end in the least. The pistons are the weak point on this car... other than the stupid axles that I'd need in addition.

Edited March 24, 2008 by NOS2006

[daves87rs]

I'd say go for it......

[SuperSport623]

bigger intercooler im guessing?

sounds like a fun project!

[NOS2006]

He said I could even stick with the exact same cooling system if I'm running a low boost, which I would be. He said 400 WHP is really no problem to max my car at "if I'm not thinking big like him." haha

you dont need pistons, you dont need rods, and we have pushed the stock cam to just over 410whp.

axles are only needed if you gonna track it

turbos are cheep, you could pick both of the ones you would need for this for under 200 bucks

use the stock A/W ic to save money. [intercooler]you'd need 60's but not a pump. [i already have these]

the labor would be rather "easy" once the few needed parts are fab'd.

like i said, it could be easily done for 2grand...so if you have a 3k budget, you'd be fine.

you'd have a nice, torquey, 400ish whp.

This is the parts list he gave me:

we'll id go with twin T28's....but that might be a bit BIG for only have 1L of exhaust gas per turbo...i'll have to do a bit more looking. my tastes are probably a bit to extreme for you.

manifold (andy could fab it)

exhaust pipe to make down pipe and charge pipe... the exhaust will be $500-600, 3in, mandrel, all stainless steel [custom fabbed at a shop he goes to all the time]a 3ft length of silicone coupler and several T-bolt clamps

Tial WG and BOV is your pick....stick with a name brand tho. no e-bay junk.

oil lines (no coolant lines for these turbos)

thats about it

Edited March 24, 2008 by NOS2006

[daves87rs]

It does sound like fun...

[SuperSport623]

the exhaust is usally the biggest worry in my mind for turbo applications, as it almost always has to be custom, but looks like you have that covered..... how bad is torque steer gonna be?

[NOS2006]

Bad.

Edited March 24, 2008 by NOS2006

[daves87rs]

Bad.

Yep.

[Nick]

Get the suspension dialed in before go-fast mods...Hell, I'd say get the driver dialed in before anything. Invest that money in some high performance driver education courses. Go to some track days and auto-x's. Then get your suspension dialed in...There is no use in having a ton of power if it exceeds the abilities of the car (and not to mention, the driver.)

The idea of a TT setup is cool, and everyone wants more power, but there are other factors to be considered here.

Ricer.

[schuby87]

I would do this right after the RWD conversion. Do you really want a 400 hp FWD car?

[NOS2006]

There actually is a guy doing a RWD TT conversion on a Cobalt SS/SC. He's looking for 800+ HP though and he said he's already more than doubled the cost of the car...

And I will be doing some auto-x's this school term.

[Blake Noble]

If you can find a way to minimize the torque steer, do it. Otherwise, I would think the car to be usless, unless your Dale Jr. let loose on the Daytona track and drunk.

[NOS2006]

Yeahh, I don't think there's a way to minimize torque steer though haha. Unless I throw a ton of weight on one side of the car..

[NOS2006]

Alright, looking into this further I will need to determine whether or not twins would fit. They'll obviously be small turbos, but it might not fit. That issue has got to be diagnosed and we will go from there. That's really the only thing the guy at the shop is worried about is fitment.

Other than that, I've got some quotes and it'll be a bit more expensive than first anticipated. Full custom stainless steel exhaust fitted up to a turbo or two will cost in the neighborhood of $1800. The header is the expensive part, but it is absolutely a work of art. He welds like 4 or 5 small pieces of pipe together for each tube and it's just gorgeous. Way expensive, but gorgeous.

Aside from that, I am about to get more serious in looking up wastegate and BOV specs I should look for. Once I figure out if I can fit two turbos, I will look further into that.

Meanwhile, I'm getting my car tuned out on Saturday morning (by the same guy who I've been talking to about the TTs. He'll probably help me figure out if they can fit the turbos or not). I should be running at least 240 WHP by Saturday afternoon. Stage 1 (just a basic tune and 42.5 injectors) runs 230 WHP (GM claim) and I'll have a much better tune, 60 lb injectors, LS4 throttle body, ported/polished supercharger, intake, exhaust, and cooler spark plugs. Put it to you this way, I raced my buddy's Stage 1 SRT4 (240 WHP / 260 tq) last Saturday completely untuned with intake/exhaust and slightly P/P SC and had my front end at his back bumper. Should be exciting! I'll be sure to update.

[NOS2006]

Here is the header/downpipe/turbo they put together for the same guy that helped me install my clutch. This is going in a Cobalt!

And I just found out that my tuner (who has a similar setup to the above) is running his Cobalt at 388 WHP and 361 WTQ.

[jcgable]

DO IT!

[mightymouse]

The horsepower is only good if you can steer the car...sorry bad idea.

Your axles /CV joints would be the first to go, and I mean on the first day.

Your parts list will be much bigger than you can imagine, check out the

GM performance parts catalog and price list..It's all in there.

[Nick]

Get the suspension dialed in before go-fast mods...Hell, I'd say get the driver dialed in before anything. Invest that money in some high performance driver education courses. Go to some track days and auto-x's. Then get your suspension dialed in...There is no use in having a ton of power if it exceeds the abilities of the car (and not to mention, the driver.)

The idea of a TT setup is cool, and everyone wants more power, but there are other factors to be considered here.

Ricer.

The horsepower is only good if you can steer the car...sorry bad idea.

Your axles /CV joints would be the first to go, and I mean on the first day.

Your parts list will be much bigger than you can imagine, check out the

GM performance parts catalog and price list..It's all in there.

.

Seriously...it seems my first post went disregarded.

I like you Frank...really, I do, which is why I hate to put this so bluntly...

You need to STOP BEING A f@#kING RICER!

Seriously man...use your head. Time, money, and effort much better spent elsewhere.

[Intrepidation]

I'd say do it, but how much have you actually driven the Cobalt in relation to how long it's sat in pieces? I'd say actually drive it some, and wait to mod a Camaro or something.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Blake Noble]

I'd say do it, but how much have you actually driven the Cobalt in relation to how long it's sat in pieces? I'd say actually drive it some, and wait to mod a Camaro or something.

You know, Dodgefan does make a good point here. If you are going to trade your Cobalt in for a '10 Camaro, you are better off just driving it as is and saving that money, putting it towards a deposit or down payment on the car.

I know that, save for a new set of rims and finally getting the lowering kit installed, there will be no further work done to my Sonoma. The money that I would have funneled into a future turbo V6 or V8 install, as well as the step shaver kit, is better put towards my down payment for my Camaro.

In the end it's your money, though, and it really isn't my place to tell you how to spend it.

[SuperSport623]

NOS, ill tell you how to spend it.. you should send it to me! you can sponsor my hunka crap... i need to build a tranny.. ill put your name in the back window if you want! :AH-HA_wink:

[NOS2006]

In the end it's your money, though, and it really isn't my place to tell you how to spend it.

Besides, who said I was gonna trade the Cobalt in? I'd sell it before I trade it in.

mightymouse: My CV joints will be absolutely fine. The axles are the only thing that will need an upgrade (and those mainly go if you're launching hard, so I'll just watch that). Stage 2 axles are only like $700 if I need a set.

Dodgefan: I've had the Cobalt 16 months and hadn't driven it for about 4. If I do a turbo swap, it will be in 3-4 months.

Nick: have you driven or been in an SS/SC? My suspension can pretty much hold its own. Besides, I will be getting a strut tower bar and possibly a set of coilovers not too long after getting the turbo. For traction, I've added traction bars and filled three of the four engine/trans mounts. In the braking department, I purchased drilled/slotted rotors and better pads will be the next to be put on. You have absolutely no idea what my plans are (beyond this thread) to judge me as a ricer. That's not right, man.

Financially, I make a good enough amount of money to do all the mods I want and still have a nice pillow to fall back on. I've already looked about five years into the future and have a good outline of a plan that I'll follow to make sure I have no major bills to start my real life. Oh, and I never use a credit card, it's always debit.

Edited March 27, 2008 by NOS2006

[daves87rs]

Besides, who said I was gonna trade the Cobalt in? I'd sell it before I trade it in.

mightymouse: My CV joints will be absolutely fine. The axles are the only thing that will need an upgrade (and those mainly go if you're launching hard, so I'll just watch that). Stage 2 axles are only like $700 if I need a set.

Dodgefan: I've had the Cobalt 16 months and hadn't driven it for about 4. If I do a turbo swap, it will be in 3-4 months.

Nick: have you driven or been in an SS/SC? My suspension can pretty much hold its own. Besides, I will be getting a strut tower bar and possibly a set of coilovers not too long after getting the turbo. For traction, I've added traction bars and filled three of the four engine/trans mounts. In the braking department, I purchased drilled/slotted rotors and better pads will be the next to be put on. You have absolutely no idea what my plans are (beyond this thread) to judge me as a ricer. That's not right, man.

Financially, I make a good enough amount of money to do all the mods I want and still have a nice pillow to fall back on. I've already looked about five years into the future and have a good outline of a plan that I'll follow to make sure I have no major bills to start my real life. Oh, and I never use a credit card, it's always debit.

Sounds like no show and all go to me.

[Nick]

Nick: have you driven or been in an SS/SC? My suspension can pretty much hold its own. Besides, I will be getting a strut tower bar and possibly a set of coilovers not too long after getting the turbo. For traction, I've added traction bars and filled three of the four engine/trans mounts. In the braking department, I purchased drilled/slotted rotors and better pads will be the next to be put on. You have absolutely no idea what my plans are (beyond this thread) to judge me as a ricer. That's not right, man.

Financially, I make a good enough amount of money to do all the mods I want and still have a nice pillow to fall back on. I've already looked about five years into the future and have a good outline of a plan that I'll follow to make sure I have no major bills to start my real life. Oh, and I never use a credit card, it's always debit.

Bad idea on the drilled/slotted rotors...you're best off with blanks, and for pads, Hawk HP+ pads are very nice...best if you are going for performance...not so great for noise, dust, and life. Also, if you haven't already; braided lines and ATE Super Blue fluid.

You even mentioned it yourself how bad your torque steer is. What the car can handle in terms of power is different than what the engine can handle. It's great that you "plan" to get the chassis dialed in, but I feel your order of things is off. On the other hand, what is most important is what the driver can handle. The smart thing to do would be invest money in yourself. If you had a stock ss and had HPDE courses under your belt I guarantee you would be faster around a track than a kid with a tuned SS and no experience. There is no use in extending the abilities of a car when the driver lacks the ability to perform the car at its limits in a controlled fashion.

I await the comments about how I don't know of your driving abilities. Well, you're right, I don't. But I know they aren't nearly as good as they would be if you took a HPDE course, or hell, even attended a track day or auto-x (which from the sounds of a previous post of yours, you haven't, but are planning to this summer.) The other great thing about investing into yourself is nobody can take that away from you. You will always have it with you even after you crash/sell/whatever your car. Then you can carry it on to your next car. I'd say the driver mod is the most worthwhile mod out there.

Reminds me of a video I was watching the other day...A brand new GT3 RS speeding through the Ring...All of a sudden, you see an old e28 5-series fly past it through a turn. The RS makes up some space in the straights, but it doesn't last long...once the twisties start back up again the 5er is gone. The RS never catches up in the remainder of the video. Granted, the 5er had to have been modified for how it was performing, but the RS is a superior car no matter how much money you put into that 5er, and for how the 5er laid waste to the RS, it was clear who the more experienced driver was.

I know it is an answer you don't want to hear. Many believe the only way for them to go faster is to make their car faster (or buy a faster car.) In the end, all the power, all the suspension work, every little mod means nothing if it can't be exploited properly. But hey, at least you have bragging rights.

Side note...No good comes from being dependent on credit, but it is just as bad, if not worse to have zero credit.

[NOS2006]

I can't say I'm the best driver because I don't push my car too hard around corners and all that. If I had time, I would take some type of driver's course. But, that's not really an option. I don't get a summer break like you and other college students. I get one week between my work term (I've worked everywhere from 40-70 hrs in a week) and school term (class, committees, positions, philanthropy, and a bunch of other stuff), so there's really no way to eliminate any of this stuff to take a driver's course.