Mark LaNeve: Camaro won't be positioned as a muscle car

[Z-06]

Let me pull a question out of my ass: How much exactly would you be willing to pay for the V8?

A Buttload

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Well this gives me a bit more hope for a 250+ torque I4 Turbodiesel that gets sweet gas mileage.

Although Diesel is incredibly expensive these days...

[regfootball]

i am for anything that keeps this new camaro from evolving into a redneck car again.

[ZL-1]

A Buttload

Since I pulled that question out of my ass, that's an appropriate answer :rotflmao:

But there are serious questions too, not directed only at you: how much will people be willing to pay for a V8 car? Where exactly is the line drawn, financially, and what are people willing to let go off to have their V8s? Those are important questions.

Edited March 24, 2008 by ZL-1

[hyperv6]

I can rebuild anything Detroit has ever built. Be it a 4 banger to V10.

I under stand what is in these engines and how they make their power.

I just find the V6 vs as narrow as the BBC vs SBC.

I was at the track when I had this guy with a 69 396 that was sweet. He wanted told me my 68 SS Chevellle sweet but too bad I did not have a BBC. [Note my 396 was long gone by a previous owner that did not adjust the solid lifter cam and it wiped the cam out.] I told him my 350 was no modified too much but it ran pretty well.

He managed to line up with we and wanted to run my car. Well we ran and even with out power shifting mine I beat him by a full second in the 1/4 mile. He would not speak to me after that as he was bested by an smaller engine he felt would have no change of beating him. To under estimate the new smaller engines today is the same mistake this man made with the small block vs big block Chevy.

I was lucky that John Linginfelter Famed Racer and Engine builder raced for the company I work for. I was able to spend time with him before he passed away. He was working on Ecotec engines and the new High feature V6 for import racing in a Cavalier. He was seeing numbers of over 2000 HP with few peoblems and was seeing times in the & second range. He said there was a lot more poer to find just before his crash that led to his death.

John was one of the best V8 Chevy builders ever. He had done things with the SBC and BBC that few ever did. Even Chevy would go to him with their problems or projects. He never gave up on the SBC but he also was wise enough to understand what the V6 and 4 Cylinders were able to do and was proving it by winning.

I guess what we need to learn here is not to forget and give up on all V8 engines but the fact we all need to be open minded enougth to understand the abilities of the modern V6.

Changes is never easy to accept but when we lost the Big block or big displacment engines many claimed they would never give them up or that they sound and feel of the smaller engines just would not work. Well the did and today we have engines half their size doing it much better and easier.

The same goes for under estimating Cadillac. Who would have ever though the CTS would be compared as a equil of better than many vehicles from Japan or Germany with only 6 cylinders.

[Camino LS6]

Since I pulled that question out of my ass, that's an appropriate answer :rotflmao:

But there are serious questions too, not directed only at you: how much will people be willing to pay for a V8 car? Where exactly is the line drawn, financially, and what are people willing to let go off to have their V8s? Those are important questions.

For me this question misses the point, I would just choose between a new car with a V8 and an old car with a V8. I have no interest in V6s and I4s.

It's all pointless talk anyway, as V8s can be brought into compliance with regulations just by virtue of their smaller production numbers and some decent tech. also, I f we all get off of our collective asses and bring alternative fuels to mass market, why give up anything?

And there is the crux of my argument with this, I'm not big on surrender. Why the hell should we dumb down the cars and surrender to this BS when alternatives can make it unnecessary?

No surrender.

No compromise.

[z28luvr01]

No surrender.

No compromise.

That's going in my sig. Awesome quote, and words to live by.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Banning people because you dont like what they have to say. Classy. Sounds like something Josh would have done.

Shut the f*ck up.

Just because you're still pissed that Josh made you quit and that I supported it doesn't mean your input matters.

And yes, if I owned the site, I would ban people I don't like. (READ: people who continuously cause problems) It would be my private site to do whatever I like with it, and why shouldn't I? That didn't happen when I was an admin because I knew it wasn't my site.

I'm just tired of what this site has become which is a pissing match between PCS, who for all most of us know could be a janitor at GME, and certain other members. I know PCS is more than a janitor, but he continues to spread rumor as fact just to piss people off.

PCS: What? Because I don't like your constant trolling, I need meds?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

No one is being banned, or is in any danger of being banned.

Unless, of course, people keep bringing this BS up - then I might be in the mood to give someone a vacation for a while.

Only a handful of people have ever been banned from this site.

That's the truth - deal with it.

Yeah, BS talk like this puts me in a bad mood.

If that was directed at me, then you can ban away my friend.

You are one of the people PCS constantly tries to piss off, does it not get old?

[NOS2006]

Stop being bitches and talk about the Camaro.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

RE the V8 thing:

I don't really understand why everyone is so doom and gloom about it. We have new technology everyday through biofuels to make the V8 and large/performance car viable for a LONG time.

Why should we give up when we're so close to so many breakthroughs?

I'm very grateful I grew up around the muscle of yesteryear (in the form of family hot rods, old school muscle, and v-drive speedboats.)

Being thankful for the LSx series of engines, and I can only hope its legacy continues on along with GM's extensive line of crate engines.

With the exception of some Italian engines, and possibly a Bavarian I6, I can honestly say I will never stray far from a V8. Nothing can compare, and fuel, regardless the cost, will never dictate my driving habits.

[SuperSport623]

the one breakthrough i will embrace within the coming years is ethanol... not only should it be cheaper, but higher octance means more compression!!!! if i can help break a foreign dependance on oil while making much more power, seriously, who loses?

[z28luvr01]

Thanks, NOS.

If we just keep to the facts and not let our emotions get the best of us, things wouldn't get so heated every time this subject is brought up.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits.....

[Z-06]

But there are serious questions too, not directed only at you: how much will people be willing to pay for a V8 car? Where exactly is the line drawn, financially, and what are people willing to let go off to have their V8s? Those are important questions.

I think Camino said it the best.

For me this question misses the point, I would just choose between a new car with a V8 and an old car with a V8. I have no interest in V6s and I4s.

It's all pointless talk anyway, as V8s can be brought into compliance with regulations just by virtue of their smaller production numbers and some decent tech. also, I f we all get off of our collective asses and bring alternative fuels to mass market, why give up anything?

And there is the crux of my argument with this, I'm not big on surrender. Why the hell should we dumb down the cars and surrender to this BS when alternatives can make it unnecessary?

No surrender.

No compromise.

Bigger cars and no replacement for displacement are integral part of most of US culture. This is coming from someone who has not been born in US. I have never seen US industry or media or even common Joes tell and force people in Europe to drive bigger vehicles. It bothers me to see that is the growing tendency from the other side of the pond (that does not include a certain poster, ZL-1 :AH-HA_wink: ) to force us believe that small cars is the mantra.

Let US consumer decide what they want to drive. Does it matter if they are paying for $6/ gallon and still driving bigger vehicles? Argument from the other side might be, that is ridiculous, so be it. The fact is it is better to learn the hard way and adopt to the new lifestyle, rather than being spoon fed by someone who is looking through their own perspective and telling that is the right way.

I as for that matter hated bigger vehicles. But when I go back to visit my country, I cringe at the cars belonging A, B and even C categories. European lifestyle is different compared to here. That does not mean either of the lifestyles are right or wrong.

As for the questions, I still believe that the current oil fiasco is NOT entirely supply and demand based, and there is speculation and a lot of it in the prices of oil. I will not divulge the details, but I have had first hand experience on this speculation. I firmly believe alternatives will save gasoline vehicles. Just like any other industries, oil needs at least one good, viable, and cheap competition. Switching to small cars is nothing but a band-aid fix. If US does move to small cars, then the strong need for pushing alternatives will be diminished and chances are we will still see the prices of oil go up, despite driving smaller vehicles. What would be next then, walk?

[NOS2006]

Never be afraid of change...

:twocents:

[The O.C.]

The G8 competes with BMW, why couldn't the Camaro with the same basic platform and powertrain? Especially if GM really invests in marketing the car correctly. Will the Camaro steal a lot of volume from BMW? Probably not, but I'm sure it can be on the same radar.

The G8 doesn't remotely compete with BMW. Let's get real.

The G8 may be an awesome product, and may have the performance and handling to compete.....but let's examine the realities of the marketplace. I bet there will be very FEW people that will ever cross-shop the G8 with a BMW. First of all is the significant price differences.......someone into the G8 isn't likely to be drawn to something as small as the 1-series.....and even that car, in 300hp guise, is more of a mid-to-upper $30's car.

And people leasing all those 328i sedans (that are in the low-to-mid $30's) are more likely doing it for different reasons (as so many people point out on here) such as brand image or lifestyle choices.

G8 MAXES out at less than $33K.....G8 is a (more successful) Charger/300C and to a lesser-extent....Maxima/Acura competitior most likely.....

[The O.C.]

I agree with what Reg said.......anything to keep the Camaro from embracing it's "redneck" status again.

(Understand....not saying ANY of you Camaro fans are "rednecks".....I'm a Camaro fan too.....and far from a "redneck.")

I think the new car will help avoid that. I think you'll have a product that definitely will be compared to Mustang and Challenger......that's a natural.....but it's appeal MIGHT extend to the G37 coupe quotient. I don't see it appealing as much to BMW fans.....(other than those of us enthusiasts on here that like both.)

You could see a nice pull from people looking at Accord and Altima coupes though.......

But at the end of the day, this car will be an unabashingly domestic car (albeit a good one) and will appeal mostly to those consumers. That's how I also see the G8.

[Z-06]

Never be afraid of change...

:twocents:

True that, but change should not be forced, otherwise there will be chaos.

[ZL-1]

It bothers me to see that is the growing tendency from the other side of the pond (that does not include a certain poster, ZL-1 :AH-HA_wink: ) to force us believe that small cars is the mantra.

I just think priorities will change whenever the cost of such vehicles becomes prohibitive to most people. I think that if it comes to choosing between paying/feeding a V8 car and having a more comfortable lifestyle, the majority of people will go for keeping their overal quality of life even if that means sacrificing the V8. Of course a few hardocre fans will always love their V8 cars, and of course enthusiast boards like these will always have a higher percentage of hardocre fans than the general public.

True that, but change should not be forced, otherwise there will be chaos.

Ordo ab Chao, I allways say :AH-HA_wink:

Edited March 24, 2008 by ZL-1

[NOS2006]

True that, but change should not be forced, otherwise there will be chaos.

In Soviet Russia, force changes you...

And here in America, sometimes change can't be called anything but "forced"

But seriously, the key word is "should." Unfortunately, that's where the government agrees to disagree and "we the people" have no way in hell to change what they think. If you and I were president, we'd veto every one of these bills, but we're not...

[Blake Noble]

You are lucky that you didn't post the pics of the black test mule, or else you would be buying me a new pack of BVDs!

How'd you know about my plans for the Camaro? :AH-HA_wink:

[hyperv6]

Scott Settlemire has confirmed this is nothing but Marketing and nothing more so don't get too crazy!

GM just can't let the Camaro only be seen as a performance car only as it will automaticly be eliminated as a efficent daily driver from many potential buyers list.

Do they really think they need to market this car to the performance people???

[NOS2006]

You are lucky that you didn't post the pics of the black test mule, or else you would be buying me a new pack of BVDs!

I don't get it...?

How'd you know about my plans for the Camaro? :AH-HA_wink:

You too, eh?

[Blake Noble]

I don't get it...?

I meant this kind of BVDs. :AH-HA_wink:

You too, eh?

Yep. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited March 24, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[ZL-1]

Here's a gift: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/24/video-2...o-classic-rock/

:AH-HA_wink:

[thegriffon]

RE the V8 thing:

I don't really understand why everyone is so doom and gloom about it. We have new technology everyday through biofuels to make the V8 and large/performance car viable for a LONG time.

Why should we give up when we're so close to so many breakthroughs?

Only if you can get a new fuel economy bill passed that restores or increases the credit for biofuels. the current meager credit is going away, remember?

[NOS2006]

Here's a gift: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/24/video-2...o-classic-rock/

:AH-HA_wink:

That video pissed me off. Why the hell would he mute the car and turn on AC/DC?

[ocnblu]

2010 Chevy Camaro:

The

Hot

Ness

Monster

[Blake Noble]

Here's a gift: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/24/video-2...o-classic-rock/

:AH-HA_wink:

I expect five U.S. dollars from you by next week. :AH-HA_wink:

Seeing that car in motion stirs my soul. Next year had better hurry up and get here ASAP!

[SuperSport623]

that video was teh secks.... is it weird that it actually looks menacing with the pre priduction headlights? i want the car badly!

[Blake Noble]

that video was teh secks.... is it weird that it actually looks menacing with the pre priduction headlights? i want the car badly!

I can only imagine how intimidating it will look with the production headlights. :AH-HA_wink:

[SuperSport623]

i know.... ugh... i want the ST, but the camaro is awesome too!.. god bless holden!

[hyperv6]

Here is what GM's Scott Settlmire [FBODFATHER] has said on the latest sound bites that people have taken wrong.

Scott S:

Many quotes -- and more misquotes in the past week.

Do not take everything you hear as gospel......some quotes were taken out of context -- others had numbers and such wrong.

Premium.....the V8 Camaro will not be $37,000 -- if it were, it would bomb.

It will be affordable and it will be in Mustang territory. "Premium" could mean a few hundred dollars......

We think you're going to be pleasantly surprised at horsepower and torque numbers -- fuel economy - and standard equipment -- (Or -- Good ole fashioned 'bang for the buck' ...) This car is going to have some details that 'surprise and delight' -- ......

You've heard me say this before and I'll say it again......there is a lot riding on this new Camaro -- and some of the best in the industry are working on it.......

Have I lied to you yet??????

Now-- go forth with your enthusiasm -- (but when you hear some high pricetag put on the car -- don't believe it -- the LAST thing we'll do is price it.........)

(by the way -- the "!2 disciples of which there are 15" will be coming to Detroit in May -- and they may have some impressions for you once they return home.) (.......that is, if we can get them to stop grinning wildly....)

One of my friends is one of the chosen 15. I have know they were goiing back in may and get to drive the production car. I was not sure if or how soon they would be able to talk about it or some of it once they get back.

I have gotten few details but I will once they are permitted to speak. I have got a lot of cloaked hints and cut short comments that mean nothing now but will once the facts are spilled.

THis will be their second visit but they have been giving feed back all along. GM has really taken this car seriously. While I am sure we will always have a few that will complain [you can't please everyone] about something the majority will be happy with the results.

[hyperv6]

That video pissed me off. Why the hell would he mute the car and turn on AC/DC?

Because 90% of it was shot by a guy post on the Camaroz28.com web site with is video camera on his motorcylcle.

All you would have gotten was wind noise.

HE did say the car was a V8 manuel. He also said the guys driving it claimed it was more quiet than the production car will be as it does not have the production exhaust yet. GM has spent a lot of time on the sound of the car and I assuem they don't want it out yet.

[zhawk]

Here is what GM's Scott Settlmire [FBODFATHER] has said on the latest sound bites that people have taken wrong.

Scott S:

Many quotes -- and more misquotes in the past week.

Do not take everything you hear as gospel......some quotes were taken out of context -- others had numbers and such wrong.

Premium.....the V8 Camaro will not be $37,000 -- if it were, it would bomb.

It will be affordable and it will be in Mustang territory. "Premium" could mean a few hundred dollars......

We think you're going to be pleasantly surprised at horsepower and torque numbers -- fuel economy - and standard equipment -- (Or -- Good ole fashioned 'bang for the buck' ...) This car is going to have some details that 'surprise and delight' -- ......

You've heard me say this before and I'll say it again......there is a lot riding on this new Camaro -- and some of the best in the industry are working on it.......

Have I lied to you yet??????

Now-- go forth with your enthusiasm -- (but when you hear some high pricetag put on the car -- don't believe it -- the LAST thing we'll do is price it.........)

(by the way -- the "!2 disciples of which there are 15" will be coming to Detroit in May -- and they may have some impressions for you once they return home.) (.......that is, if we can get them to stop grinning wildly....)

One of my friends is one of the chosen 15. I have know they were goiing back in may and get to drive the production car. I was not sure if or how soon they would be able to talk about it or some of it once they get back.

I have gotten few details but I will once they are permitted to speak. I have got a lot of cloaked hints and cut short comments that mean nothing now but will once the facts are spilled.

THis will be their second visit but they have been giving feed back all along. GM has really taken this car seriously. While I am sure we will always have a few that will complain [you can't please everyone] about something the majority will be happy with the results.

Scott's never steered us wrong yet and I have no reason to believe he would do so now. He is a car guy first, last , and always. Everytime he's come to Seattle and we've gotten together, he has always been upfront. If he couldn't tell us information he would let us know but he would also talk straight up about what he could and give his personal impressions of what GM had out, what was coming, and what was happening within the company.

Hmmm, I wonder if Nancy (one of our club members) is one of those 15. She always seems to be able to work her way into info.

[frogger]

I agree with what Reg said.......anything to keep the Camaro from embracing it's "redneck" status again.

I always thought it was more Guido/Gino.. Though I guess the whole mullet/jeans and running shoes look did make up a large percentage too.

[frogger]

Hmmm V6 + fuel economy, I wonder if they're talking about a current V6? Everything I've read about the 3.6L has been 20mpg average in mixed driving would be above average for that engine.

[turbo200]

The G8 doesn't remotely compete with BMW. Let's get real.

The G8 may be an awesome product, and may have the performance and handling to compete.....but let's examine the realities of the marketplace. I bet there will be very FEW people that will ever cross-shop the G8 with a BMW. First of all is the significant price differences.......someone into the G8 isn't likely to be drawn to something as small as the 1-series.....and even that car, in 300hp guise, is more of a mid-to-upper $30's car.

And people leasing all those 328i sedans (that are in the low-to-mid $30's) are more likely doing it for different reasons (as so many people point out on here) such as brand image or lifestyle choices.

G8 MAXES out at less than $33K.....G8 is a (more successful) Charger/300C and to a lesser-extent....Maxima/Acura competitior most likely.....

Right. the goal is to eventually get it to where it can be seen as a competent BMW competitor, but it needs a generation, a better product foundation at Pontiac, and a little higher level of finesse.

I've had to eat some crow on my G8 comments. Saw it in a different color and without chrome aftermarket wheels that I saw on the original car, and it's not the best looking car at GM anymore. It's the third best looking car. Nor is it really a stand apart car. It's got an aggressive front end that asks to be noticed and the rest of the car is muted. It's sophisticated but muted.

All that being said, my comments about expectiations for it still stand. Just that it is more of a good Maxima competitor than a viable BMW convert with really muted style it possesses.

[turbo200]

I think the new car will help avoid that. I think you'll have a product that definitely will be compared to Mustang and Challenger......that's a natural.....but it's appeal MIGHT extend to the G37 coupe quotient. I don't see it appealing as much to BMW fans.....(other than those of us enthusiasts on here that like both.)

it won't grab those looking for the stature of BMW, but that's only a defined segment of buyers. There are many just looking for a distinct good looking coupe with sophistication and an image for chicness. There are parents who just buy thier little girls the latest image car, and 2 doors just works so perfect for them [if you get what tone I'm coming from here.] In short I think it'll end up taking some buyers, but not serious hardcore BMW buyers. just the ones that would also cross shop the G37.

[ZL-1]

That video pissed me off. Why the hell would he mute the car and turn on AC/DC?

Well 'Back in Black' seemed an appropriate song to me. Y'know.... with the car being black and all...

And maybe they can use the same song when GM delivers a profit again!

I expect five U.S. dollars from you by next week. :AH-HA_wink:

No five dolla 4 u!

Edited March 31, 2008 by ZL-1

[The O.C.]

Right. the goal is to eventually get it to where it can be seen as a competent BMW competitor, but it needs a generation, a better product foundation at Pontiac, and a little higher level of finesse.

I've had to eat some crow on my G8 comments. Saw it in a different color and without chrome aftermarket wheels that I saw on the original car, and it's not the best looking car at GM anymore. It's the third best looking car. Nor is it really a stand apart car. It's got an aggressive front end that asks to be noticed and the rest of the car is muted. It's sophisticated but muted.

All that being said, my comments about expectiations for it still stand. Just that it is more of a good Maxima competitor than a viable BMW convert with really muted style it possesses.

G8 is funny......overall a pleasant-looking car.....but really it's only the aggressive front-end that lends it it's sportiness......

The car HAS to have the right wheels too.....only the 19-inchers on the GT. The 18s really seem to fail to fill the wheelwells.....

And finally, if you don't option up a base car, you get manual seats and even a cheap, plastic, non-leather-wrapped wheel.....but at least the base cloth seems decent.

Hence....the way to go is G8 GT with 19's and leather.......(or a GXP)

[LosAngeles]

These seem like good times to think American, and especially GM, with the Camaro and G8 coming down the pike.

the one breakthrough i will embrace within the coming years is ethanol... not only should it be cheaper, but higher octance means more compression!!!! if i can help break a foreign dependance on oil while making much more power, seriously, who loses?

I'd like to see more flex-fuel cars in general, especially a performance car...and if GM can get Coskata to pull off their trash/old tires/garden waste ethanol production idea, it's on like Donkey Kong, to quote Ice Cube. We'll solve a ton of problems.

The G8 doesn't remotely compete with BMW. Let's get real.

The G8 may be an awesome product, and may have the performance and handling to compete.....but let's examine the realities of the marketplace. I bet there will be very FEW people that will ever cross-shop the G8 with a BMW. First of all is the significant price differences.......someone into the G8 isn't likely to be drawn to something as small as the 1-series.....and even that car, in 300hp guise, is more of a mid-to-upper $30's car.

And people leasing all those 328i sedans (that are in the low-to-mid $30's) are more likely doing it for different reasons (as so many people point out on here) such as brand image or lifestyle choices.

G8 MAXES out at less than $33K.....G8 is a (more successful) Charger/300C and to a lesser-extent....Maxima/Acura competitior most likely.....

Yeah, people looking at those cars could give a damn about bang for the buck. The Westside yuppie/hipster/other douchebag that applies is interested in car as trophy.

Who remembers that episode of the Shield where Shane's girlfriend said she wanted to get an ES300 because she can't drive around real estate customers in a '97 Neon?

[Camino LS6]

A belated thanks to Z for quoting me in his sig, and thanks to others who found value in my comments in this thread.

Stuff like that makes it worth the effort.

[Oracle of Delphi]

A belated thanks to Z for quoting me in his sig, and thanks to others who found value in my comments in this thread.

Stuff like that makes it worth the effort.

I see you kinda quoted me in your sig, in a backwards sort of perverse way! :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

I see you kinda quoted me in your sig, in a backwards sort of perverse way! :AH-HA_wink:

That's a matter of perspective and opinion.

And, it's been in my sig for quite some time.

You just notice it?

[gm4life]

I would bet that a V6 (volume/rental) will be sold and two V8's. Trust me the V8 isn't going anywhere just yet. A V8 Camaro will be pretty easy to come by like a GT Mustang. I am not worrying but not billing at as a musclecar is stupid, maybe an efficent muscle-car?

[LosAngeles]

I am not worrying but not billing at as a musclecar is stupid, maybe an efficent muscle-car?

Why do American cars with any kind of real performance have to be "muscle cars?" Must every single affordable performance car Detroit makes have to remind us of the 60s? Like American cars are all unrefined brutes only concerned with E.T.'s.

Not billing it one doesn't mean it won't sell.

Brave new world...cars are much higher tech and not one-dimensional anymore.

And oh yeah...there ARE substitutes for cubic inches/liters. There are even substitutes for forced induction. And it's called more efficient technology....technology that isn't even that complex in the big picture.

Revenge of the nerds.

Edited March 31, 2008 by LosAngeles

[cletus8269]

it probably doesnt go far to say some people may look down upon it for being labeled a muscle car in times like these with gas prices and all because of what muscle cars historically are perceived as... you know how the eco squad went nuts on the hummer dealerships and all... Muscle car has almost lost its meaning the way it gets slapped on everything. it may just be time to retire that and come up with something new. what that term would be i have no idea, thats GM's PR departments job, thats what they get paid for... supposedly. even pony car seems a tad bit dated no?

[hyperv6]

They have not built a Muscle car since 1970.

The cars today are perfromance cars and the Muscle car term is for those still living in the past.

They can call the Camaro anything they want at the enthisiast knows what it is. But those the unwashed masses that think a Mustang convertible is cool because it is cute will be more interested in the gas milage vs V8 power. These are the people that have kept the Mustang alive for years as they buy most of them in the V6 mode.

I spoke to one of the people in the group doing feed back to GM on the Camaro. While I was not given any new detail [it is a family Friend and I don't want anyone to get into trouble] I was pretty much clued in that GM is looking at every angle to market this car to just anyone who can drive. Old, young, Retro, Ricer. Male, Female, Tech, Non Tech, Racer or Nurse, ETC.

This car like the first gen needs to appeal to a wide group vs the last gen that was mostly a male performance driven group.

As for the G8 Appealing to the BMW crowd. I think too many misunderstand that GM does not expect to keep anyone from buying a 5 series for a G8 but there are many who are driving much less expensive Camry's and Accords that would love to have a car like a 5 Series but can't afford the car or the the price to fix it. The G8 is a car they can afford and not have to worry buying a used BMW and then have to pay the big price to fix everything. And don't say it does not happen as I have seen many a used BMW buyer with gret regret and a car that is not drivable.

Many times a used BMW is like a Cheap Ferrari not a good bargin.

[Camino LS6]

The term musclecar has been slapped on too many things to have much meaning anymore.

Ponycar, while more accurate when talking Camaro, is a forgotten term.

Performance Car, as Hyper says, would be the proper term today.