C&G @ NYIAS: Chevy Volt Nation Event

[z28luvr01]

The last event I attended for the NYIAS media days was the Volt nation event, a "town hall" style meeting between members of the of the Volt production team and 250 or so people who registered for the event on GM-Volt.com. The creator of GM-Volt, Lyle Dennis, engineered this event, which brought together the car's creators and its enthusiasts and, in all likelihood, its first buyers. A little more than halfway through the event, Bob Lutz dropped in and answered a few more questions and basically reaffirmed GM's unwavering commitment to the Volt. The full text and video coverage should be available on GM-Volt relatively shortly, so be sure to keep an eye out for it (unfortunately my sightlines were obstructed by huge video cameras from major media outlets, otherwise I'd have a video in a couple of days). Here are some of the key points.

• As I said earlier, GM is hands-down committed to the Volt. So much so, that they are more than willing to take a loss on it. Lutz noted that GM has had the technology for hybrid propulsion since 1967, and when the first generation Prius came out, that GM was gun shy about taking on the huge financial risk to develop a competitor. However, GM failed to take into consideration the billions of dollars lost due to lost sales and GM's own image as a leader in technology. This time around, there is company wide support for the car. The official word from the board is, "Don't worry about profitability. Just gets this car done."
• GM really has no idea how it will be priced, but it will be a tremendous value
• The Volt will be designed to sell in every market all over the world. Lutz sees a million sales worldwide as an eventual possibility.
• The final design for the exterior will be nailed down "in a couple of days"
• Currently the team is just focusing on the sedan bodystyle, but the technology could eventually have a minivan, a sports car, an SUV, etc. built around it.
• The Volt will be fun to drive, and will change the average person's view of electric cars. The car will provide the exact same driving dynamics when running on gas as on electric.
• GM sees a huge future in lithium ion battery technology. The company is paying attention to a university currently researching a form of lithium ion battery that could allow a 100 mile range without using a drop of gas. Something like this would have to wait until future generations of the Volt.
• The battery pack design hasn't been nailed down yet and is undergoing testing. Note to CD: if you aren't already, be on the lookout for hacked up last-gen Malibus with black fender flares.
• The Volt will have auto-sensing technology that will determine what type of power receptacle you plug it into.
• A question was raised about the effect on the power grid will be when plug-in vehicles become more mainstream. Several hundred thousand Volts will not put strain on the power grid.

Overall, it was nice to see just how serious GM is about this car. It's not a research product. It's not a marketing tool. In the words of Bob Lutz, "It's the next Model T, a game changer" After the show they let us up on the turntable to get up close and personal with it. Even though it's a concept, you can see how designers effectively combine marry function to form. The lines of the car are both beautiful and purposeful. Hopefully the soon-to-be-final design doesn't lose any of that.

[PurdueGuy]

cool. Glad to see there aren't more "promises" in this, as well. They've made enough indications about what the car will be, no need to let it get out of hand.

[enzl]

I'm not sold.

More Free PR--No real info. Someone must have gotten a hold of Lutz and told him to stop speaking off script.

Important questions:

1. When is it's availablility being projected?

2. What will it cost? ('Good Value' is not a number)

3. Anyone at this 'event' actually ask a tough question?

The Volt is, I'm sorry to say, a false hope. I can't understand why $ is being spent on this when the two-mode has Billions invested and would bring real economy gains to current product.

If GM had the $ to waste, I'd support this. If the Camaro took them 4 years with current tech, how the hell are they going to produce a real, saleable, technologically superior vehicle in less than that?

[smk4565]

Cost will be a big factor. If this car drives like a Cobalt, and has an interior like one, but costs $38,000, people won't care if it gets 500 mpg, they won't buy it. I hope they do this first though, they have been hyping it for a while, it would be sad if Toyota or Mercedes beats them to it. Chevy really needs to be first to have a car like this, because if Toyota does it first, their image just gets stronger, and Toyota has more cash on reserve to sell cars at a loss or advertise the heck out of it.

Part of the reason the Camaro took 4 years is because they stopped working on Zeta to work on the Silverado, Tahoe and Yukon. They thought 15 mpg trucks was a top priority, but they also say CAFE regulations mean no new Monaro, no new Cadillac V8, and the rumor is the base Camaro will be 4-cylinder. Lutz also added yesterday that V8s will quasi-disappear from GM by 2015. I can't wait.

[PurdueGuy]

I'm not sold.

More Free PR--No real info. Someone must have gotten a hold of Lutz and told him to stop speaking off script.

Important questions:

1. When is it's availablility being projected?

2. What will it cost? ('Good Value' is not a number)

3. Anyone at this 'event' actually ask a tough question?

The Volt is, I'm sorry to say, a false hope. I can't understand why $ is being spent on this when the two-mode has Billions invested and would bring real economy gains to current product.

If GM had the $ to waste, I'd support this. If the Camaro took them 4 years with current tech, how the hell are they going to produce a real, saleable, technologically superior vehicle in less than that?

I'm curious, what are you going to say when people start buying them? You whine about GM giving too many details before they really know the details, and now you want details. Your never ending well of cynicism gets really, really old. Realism and calling GM out on things when they screw up is one thing, but you take it to another extra crappy level.

[z28luvr01]

I'm not sold.

More Free PR--No real info. Someone must have gotten a hold of Lutz and told him to stop speaking off script.

Important questions:

1. When is it's availablility being projected?

2. What will it cost? ('Good Value' is not a number)

3. Anyone at this 'event' actually ask a tough question?

The Volt is, I'm sorry to say, a false hope. I can't understand why $ is being spent on this when the two-mode has Billions invested and would bring real economy gains to current product.

If GM had the $ to waste, I'd support this. If the Camaro took them 4 years with current tech, how the hell are they going to produce a real, saleable, technologically superior vehicle in less than that?

I can tell you this event wasn't staged, since there was a registration booth in the Javitz center lobby. I don't think GM's script writers would have Lutz say something like "A secondary goal of the Volt is to kick Toyota in the teeth." These were regular people from all over the country asking questions, not media personnel. Some of them were rather pointed, and the team answered all of them without stumbling or tripping over their own words. I think you should wait for the video before dismissing this as just a PR stunt.

As far as why GM would bother spending money on the Volt, consider this: I live 7 miles from where I work. If I own a Volt, I can go a full work week without having to charge it, much less use a drop of gasoline. Many Americans are in similar situations where they don't live very far from work, and a Volt would eliminate their gas consumption while a conventional hybrid would only decrease it. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be behind something like that.

Lutz is "95%" sure that GM will make the target date for the Volt - 2010 some time (I forgot what he said). Obviously the battery tech is the wildcard, but he did say that he did not foresee anything more than a slight delay. Point blank, there is zero chance of the Volt not happening.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for. Noone has anything like the Volt out now, and noone will have anything like the Volt out when it does come out. Instead of going on and on about how you think the Volt is a crock, how about this: keep tabs on Volt-specific places like gm-volt.com and see if they decide to hold another event like the one I attended. When they do, register, attend, and ask your questions. After that, come back and report your findings on here. It's fine to be devil's advocate - the events I've been to suggest that GM wants you to - but do seek the answers to your questions, because GM has the answers.

[enzl]

I'm curious, what are you going to say when people start buying them? You whine about GM giving too many details before they really know the details, and now you want details. Your never ending well of cynicism gets really, really old. Realism and calling GM out on things when they screw up is one thing, but you take it to another extra crappy level.

If I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry.

Unfortunately, GM has real employees, real franchisees and real lives in their hands. I'm certainly a cynic...my question is why would people here blindly accept their BS? And what have they been doing so right that I should look the other way? A couple of good products and all is forgiven? Please.

I love GM, that's why I'm hard on them.

I've got my future and hundreds of other dependent upon their choices, so it's my right--check that--my obligation, to analyze each and every move they make...and the Volt has become a joke, IMHO. Refer to Gm's claims upon intro of the concept--and see how they've completely backtracked in an effort to avoid the embarassment of being a bunch of liars---$30K is now $40k, Spring 08 testing of batteries is now Summer, full production is now limited roll-out (w/customer beta testing?)---This whole thing makes them look like Keystone Kops--at a time they can least afford to...

Other than a few nice products and selling more of the family silver (Allison) they've been doing nothing newsworthy, zip, nada--other than raises for the Executives--in the past year or so...and, most importantly, none of those products have stopped their endless slide into the abyss.

You want to hand out praise for that--go for it. I'm waiting to see evidence of a true turn-around. I've got enough to worry about each day without having to think about doing their job for them.

[enzl]

I can tell you this event wasn't staged, since there was a registration booth in the Javitz center lobby. I don't think GM's script writers would have Lutz say something like "A secondary goal of the Volt is to kick Toyota in the teeth." These were regular people from all over the country asking questions, not media personnel. Some of them were rather pointed, and the team answered all of them without stumbling or tripping over their own words. I think you should wait for the video before dismissing this as just a PR stunt.

As far as why GM would bother spending money on the Volt, consider this: I live 7 miles from where I work. If I own a Volt, I can go a full work week without having to charge it, much less use a drop of gasoline. Many Americans are in similar situations where they don't live very far from work, and a Volt would eliminate their gas consumption while a conventional hybrid would only decrease it. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be behind something like that.

Lutz is "95%" sure that GM will make the target date for the Volt - 2010 some time (I forgot what he said). Obviously the battery tech is the wildcard, but he did say that he did not foresee anything more than a slight delay. Point blank, there is zero chance of the Volt not happening.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for. Noone has anything like the Volt out now, and noone will have anything like the Volt out when it does come out. Instead of going on and on about how you think the Volt is a crock, how about this: keep tabs on Volt-specific places like gm-volt.com and see if they decide to hold another event like the one I attended. When they do, register, attend, and ask your questions. After that, come back and report your findings on here. It's fine to be devil's advocate - the events I've been to suggest that GM wants you to - but do seek the answers to your questions, because GM has the answers.

With all due respect for your efforts, getting together a group of fans for a rap session is not the same thing as answering questions from real, educated, industry professionals.

Everything I've read (and I've looked) indicates that GM will be late to deliver this product--and, according to some battery suppliers, may never be able to meet the advertised performance parameters.

Additionally, it's not that the Volt isn't a good idea--it's brilliant--it's the notion that this is the best way for GM to be spending it right now. They're strapped, so throw a Hail Mary? How about spending a fraction of the $ on improving your discredited smaller models? Diesel anyone? How about the two-mode you just dropped Billions on?

As I said above, bringing a bunch of people predisposed to like you in for a free trip to NY isn't a difficult crowd to please. Bring in 100's of Prius owners, then you'll get my attention (in a good way.)

Edited March 20, 2008 by enzl

[smk4565]

Toyota has also claimed they'll have a plug-in hybrid in 2010. They are already the hybrid leader now, plus they spend more money in research and development than any other company in the world. GM not only has to be fast, but execute near perfectly on the first model year, which they don't have a great history of doing.

As for why don't they spend money elsewhere, they don't have that much money. This is where the too many models and brands issue comes into play as well as the legacy costs. GM doesn't make money on small cars, so they don't invest in them, instead money goes into full size trucks.

Another place money has gone is Saab. I read GM lost an estimated $4 billion on Saab from 1990-2002 (including purchase price). Saab lost $428 million in 2006. Why on earth are they spending money there, when the cost of materials, labor, advertising, and the 400 million thrown away could go to making better small cars or diesel/hybrid mid size cars.

[z28luvr01]

With all due respect for your efforts, getting together a group of fans for a rap session is not the same thing as answering questions from real, educated, industry professionals.

Everything I've read (and I've looked) indicates that GM will be late to deliver this product--and, according to some battery suppliers, may never be able to meet the advertised performance parameters.

Additionally, it's not the the Volt isn't a good idea--it's brilliant--it's the notion that this is the best way for GM to be spending it right now. They're strapped, so throw a Hail Mary? How about spending a fraction of the $ on improving your discredited smaller models? Diesel anyone? How about the two-mode you just dropped Billions on?

As I said above, bringing a bunch of people predisposed to like you in for a free trip to NY isn't a difficult crowd to please. Bring in 100's of Prius owners, then you'll get my attention (in a good way.)

The trip wasn't free. Those people came on their own dime.

As for the small cars, last check they were a model year or two out anyway, which would put them at or after the Volt comes out. So take your pick in '10. Your suggestions for allocating the funds being used on the Volt have one flaw, they only decrease fuel consumption. The Volt, for many households, could eliminate it, so it makes sense to throw the $$$ where it'll have the most impact. Same reason why it made sense to stall Zeta to get the cash-cow GMT900s out sooner. No, the battery tech isn't nailed down yet, but GM is intent on building the car as promised. Someone did ask if GM considered building a straight electric version to cut costs, and the answer was no.

Again, seek your answers. Go to gm-volt.com and find out everything you can. The creator and the site and GM are in touch regularly, and I'm sure this is not the last time they'll hold an event like this.

[network engineer]

With all due respect for your efforts, getting together a group of fans for a rap session is not the same thing as answering questions from real, educated, industry professionals.

Everything I've read (and I've looked) indicates that GM will be late to deliver this product--and, according to some battery suppliers, may never be able to meet the advertised performance parameters.

Additionally, it's not that the Volt isn't a good idea--it's brilliant--it's the notion that this is the best way for GM to be spending it right now. They're strapped, so throw a Hail Mary? How about spending a fraction of the $ on improving your discredited smaller models? Diesel anyone? How about the two-mode you just dropped Billions on?

As I said above, bringing a bunch of people predisposed to like you in for a free trip to NY isn't a difficult crowd to please. Bring in 100's of Prius owners, then you'll get my attention (in a good way.)

Diesel? Lol that was a good one. Diesel is more efficient but it is more expensive, as much as $.70 in my market. As more diesel vehicles get onto American roads, the cost of Diesel will go up even more, eventually getting to a point where it's more expensive to operate than gasoline vehicles. Our oil industry can produce gasoline or diesel from the raw oil. Right now our economy is geared towards gasoline. Ramping up diesel production will reduce gasoline out put and, I can tell you that's not going to happen. So if we can't ramp up diesel production how do we make sure we supply enough diesel? Simple, you raise the price of diesel, so that less people wan to drive a diesel car. GM will have a tough time selling a diesel powered vehicle if the cost of fuel is $5/ gallon. Diesel is not the future, electric vehicles are.

There is a quote I like :

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -Alan Kay

And you don't invent the next great thing by listening to your customers or low level employees because :

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said, a faster horse!" - Henry Ford

Improving existing hybrid technology is like building a faster horse. Sure it'll be good for a couple of years, but it'll be a bad long term strategy. GM is predicting that electric vehicles are the future and with the Volt they are inventing it. This vehicle will fundamentally change the auto industry as we know it.

Edited March 20, 2008 by network engineer

[enzl]

The trip wasn't free. Those people came on their own dime.

As for the small cars, last check they were a model year or two out anyway, which would put them at or after the Volt comes out. So take your pick in '10. Your suggestions for allocating the funds being used on the Volt have one flaw, they only decrease fuel consumption. The Volt, for many households, could eliminate it, so it makes sense to throw the $$$ where it'll have the most impact. Same reason why it made sense to stall Zeta to get the cash-cow GMT900s out sooner. No, the battery tech isn't nailed down yet, but GM is intent on building the car as promised. Someone did ask if GM considered building a straight electric version to cut costs, and the answer was no.

Again, seek your answers. Go to gm-volt.com and find out everything you can. The creator and the site and GM are in touch regularly, and I'm sure this is not the last time they'll hold an event like this.

I've never debated the value of the Volt--just the ability of GM to do it as promised.

Still have seen nothing that convinces me otherwise...fanboys don't count for factual, actual progress measurements---they came to NY (apparently not on GM's dime, although that's not what's been reported) which means they're really drinking the Kool Aid.

The Zeta stall worked, no? Exactly the assinine decisionmaking that has landed them in this spot--market moves to cars, GM gets caught short (again)--tell me how a lineup of RWD dream machine CARS would hurt GM right now? (BTW-GMT900 incentives were sky-high with-in 6 months of roll-out as well, so it was doubly stupid)

[enzl]

Diesel? Lol that was a good one. Diesel is more efficient but it is more expensive, as much as $.70 in my market. As more diesel vehicles get onto American roads, the cost of Diesel will go up even more, eventually getting to a point where it's more expensive to operate than gasoline vehicles. Our oil industry can produce gasoline or diesel from the raw oil. Right now our economy is geared towards gasoline. Ramping up diesel production will reduce gasoline out put and, I can tell you that's not going to happen. So if we can't ramp up diesel production how do we make sure we supply enough diesel? Simple, you raise the price of diesel, so that less people wan to drive a diesel car. GM will have a tough time selling a diesel powered vehicle if the cost of fuel is $5/ gallon. Diesel is not the future, electric vehicles are.

There is a quote I like :

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -Alan Kay

And you don't invent the next great thing by listening to your customers or low level employees because :

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said, a faster horse!" - Henry Ford

Improving existing hybrid technology is like building a faster horse. Sure it'll be good for a couple of years, but it'll be a bad long term strategy. GM is predicting that electric vehicles are the future and with the Volt they are inventing it. This vehicle will fundamentally change the auto industry as we know it.

Let's get something straight...they haven't invented anything yet...which is my major issue with the Volt. The best analogy is football--what's better? A great offense that moves the ball regularly and efficiently OR the Hail Mary pass?

Yo've eaten up the GM PR machines' product. There's no tangible proof that the Volt can or will work. I can tell you the worlds is looking to buy a few good small cars--here, in Europe, in India, in China---(with or without Diesel, my friend--your neighborhood notwithstanding)--GM, IMO, could use a few good ones right now.

[network engineer]

Let's get something straight...they haven't invented anything yet...which is my major issue with the Volt. The best analogy is football--what's better? A great offense that moves the ball regularly and efficiently OR the Hail Mary pass?

Yo've eaten up the GM PR machines' product. There's no tangible proof that the Volt can or will work. I can tell you the worlds is looking to buy a few good small cars--here, in Europe, in India, in China---(with or without Diesel, my friend--your neighborhood notwithstanding)--GM, IMO, could use a few good ones right now.

Apple didn't invent the technology behind the first Mac or the iPod. They just put it together in a way no one had before and then marketed the crap out of it. So today they have almost $20 billion in cash and no debt. Yet no one disputes that they invented either product.

[enzl]

Apple didn't invent the technology behind the first Mac or the iPod. They just put it together in a way no one had before and then marketed the crap out of it. So today they have almost $20 billion in cash and no debt. Yet no one disputes that they invented either product.

Again, I don't believe that the braintrust at GM could hold Apple's Jobs or Wozniak's jocks. Comparing the two is absurd.

GM wishes they had $20 Billion in debt...their debt service costs are Billions/year...and only getting worse.

I don't wish them ill, I just think it's time for fresh blood. Perhaps someone who recognizes the crisis as lifethreatening would be a start?

The Volt was an Autoshow afterthought for GM until they realized they had a PR bonanza on their hands. Everything from that point forward has been a GM reaction---they haven't anticipated a thing for decades.

[FAPTurbo]

Cost will be a big factor. If this car drives like a Cobalt, and has an interior like one, but costs $38,000, people won't care if it gets 500 mpg, they won't buy it.

*shrugs* I'm not sure. The Prius doesn't drive like anything special, and its interior is a bit of a letdown compared to other Toyota's, but people still pay top dollar for them.

[deftonesfan867]

Hey everybody, we have a couple of fortune tellers in here.

[The O.C.]

I can tell you this event wasn't staged, since there was a registration booth in the Javitz center lobby. I don't think GM's script writers would have Lutz say something like "A secondary goal of the Volt is to kick Toyota in the teeth." These were regular people from all over the country asking questions, not media personnel. Some of them were rather pointed, and the team answered all of them without stumbling or tripping over their own words. I think you should wait for the video before dismissing this as just a PR stunt.

As far as why GM would bother spending money on the Volt, consider this: I live 7 miles from where I work. If I own a Volt, I can go a full work week without having to charge it, much less use a drop of gasoline. Many Americans are in similar situations where they don't live very far from work, and a Volt would eliminate their gas consumption while a conventional hybrid would only decrease it. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be behind something like that.

Lutz is "95%" sure that GM will make the target date for the Volt - 2010 some time (I forgot what he said). Obviously the battery tech is the wildcard, but he did say that he did not foresee anything more than a slight delay. Point blank, there is zero chance of the Volt not happening.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for. Noone has anything like the Volt out now, and noone will have anything like the Volt out when it does come out. Instead of going on and on about how you think the Volt is a crock, how about this: keep tabs on Volt-specific places like gm-volt.com and see if they decide to hold another event like the one I attended. When they do, register, attend, and ask your questions. After that, come back and report your findings on here. It's fine to be devil's advocate - the events I've been to suggest that GM wants you to - but do seek the answers to your questions, because GM has the answers.

I think one point Enzl is trying to make is that.....GM is in a very precarious situation.

For the car to make the impact it needs, Volt needed to be here TODAY.

In another year (or less) we'll have a 3rd generation Prius.....and GM will still be another year away (if we are lucky) from introducing the Volt.

What is the competition currently working on that we don't know about? Who's to say that when GM introduces the Volt, Toyota (or Honda, or whomever) introduces a superior version a few months later?

Volt seems very promising.....but there's still WAY too many questions left unanswered.

[The O.C.]

No, the battery tech isn't nailed down yet, but GM is intent on building the car as promised.

In order for them to deliver a production car in two years' time or less, the battery tech HAS to be nailed down ALREADY......or it's www.notgonnahappen.com

[The O.C.]

Another thing to consider is....the Volt isn't an end-all-be-all for people.....

Volt would never "pencil" for me over a comparable hybrid. Because I drive all over L.A. and San Diego seeing clients, there are many days that I'm putting a couple hundred miles on my car each day. In this instance, I believe, a two-mode, or Prius-like hybrid would be a better alternative for me.

I think the number of people that truly travel truly short distances each day are few-and-far between......so GM has a great idea with the Volt.....but they need to be prepared for it to NOT be the "hail Mary" pass they seem to think it is.....

[zhawk]

No offense, Enzl, but it reads like ANYTHING GM does is not good enough for you. I understand that your livelihood is at stake as is those around you but, I have to wonder if your animosity towards the heads at GM is so strong that you cannot see anything posisitve. Yes, I know you've been burned before.

Anytime someone goes to ones of these events or reports something positive, it seems like you and some others start talking 'koolaid' and 'fanboy'. Give Z28luvr01 some credit and the benefit of the doubt. They just may be smarter than you give them credit for.

Consturctive criticism is great but there is a limit. Some of the negative posts get so bad here that people get turned off and skip through posts when the see certain names. I know I used to.

As for the Volt, I am hoping the GM can get it to market on time and as efficient as they state, or at least close.

[Camino LS6]

No offense, Enzl, but it reads like ANYTHING GM does is not good enough for you. I understand that your livelihood is at stake as is those around you but, I have to wonder if your animosity towards the heads at GM is so strong that you cannot see anything posisitve. Yes, I know you've been burned before.

Anytime someone goes to ones of these events or reports something positive, it seems like you and some others start talking 'koolaid' and 'fanboy'. Give Z28luvr01 some credit and the benefit of the doubt. They just may be smarter than you give them credit for.

Consturctive criticism is great but there is a limit. Some of the negative posts get so bad here that people get turned off and skip through posts when the see certain names. I know I used to.

As for the Volt, I am hoping the GM can get it to market on time and as efficient as they state, or at least close.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[z28luvr01]

No offense, Enzl, but it reads like ANYTHING GM does is not good enough for you. I understand that your livelihood is at stake as is those around you but, I have to wonder if your animosity towards the heads at GM is so strong that you cannot see anything posisitve. Yes, I know you've been burned before.

Anytime someone goes to ones of these events or reports something positive, it seems like you and some others start talking 'koolaid' and 'fanboy'. Give Z28luvr01 some credit and the benefit of the doubt. They just may be smarter than you give them credit for.

Consturctive criticism is great but there is a limit. Some of the negative posts get so bad here that people get turned off and skip through posts when the see certain names. I know I used to.

As for the Volt, I am hoping the GM can get it to market on time and as efficient as they state, or at least close.

Thanks. All I can say is, if this was a coregraphed PR event, they hid it very well. Anyone on the street could have walked into the Javitz center lobby, signed up for the event, and participated. The table was there (unless of course it was a decoy ). Some 250 people attended the event, some coming from as far as Arizona and Colorado. I highly doubt GM paid airfare (at $500 a pop in some cases), train fare, taxi fare, or whatever for any of those people. The questions asked were not light, as in "Hey, thanks for the Volt. What colors will it come in?" As I've said before, I would seriously keep an eye out for the transcript and/or video of the event before rushing to judgement about its relevance.

I have two examples from the recent past that should have some indication of whether or not the Volt will meet expectations: Solstice and GTO. What do they have in common? The full, unwavering support of Bob Lutz. Those two happened despite much internal resistance from GM. Lutz pushed and pushed for them and got them to market as he said he would. The Solstice is an epsecially good example because, at the time, GM had nothing that it could use to build it on, much like the Volt. What the Volt has that the Solstice and GTO didn't have is the unwavering support of the board of directors and the rest of GM. Lutz has said, not in so many words, that the Volt is the single most significant project in his career. He wants it done. The rest of GM wants it done. It will get done.

[Z-06]

I agree with z-z's. Enzl, you have played patience game for quite a while, now just hang in there buddy.

Like I had said in another post, only GM has to lose if this is a PR gimmick.

And for your concern regarding the billions spent on two mode, part of that money went to making the drivetrain suitable for the plug-ins and also for cooling capabilities. It is not a total loss. Correct me if I am wrong, but the entire development money for those two projects comes off from one funnel of GM's alternate fuel resource division.

Edited March 21, 2008 by smallchevy

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

Another thing to consider is....the Volt isn't an end-all-be-all for people.....

Volt would never "pencil" for me over a comparable hybrid. Because I drive all over L.A. and San Diego seeing clients, there are many days that I'm putting a couple hundred miles on my car each day. In this instance, I believe, a two-mode, or Prius-like hybrid would be a better alternative for me.

I think the number of people that truly travel truly short distances each day are few-and-far between......so GM has a great idea with the Volt.....but they need to be prepared for it to NOT be the "hail Mary" pass they seem to think it is.....

That doesn't make sense. Even the 2-mode system adds a level of complexity: the Volt's small engine doesn't touch the wheels: it only recharges the batteries, thus the only time the engine comes on it can keep at a optimal RPM which is even better for fuel economy. A 600 mile range on a single tank? Better than any car I am aware of.

As has been said, the Volt is a 'game changer.' If delivered as promised (and I've seen it in person - it blows the Prius out of the water, styling wise), it will not only put GM back in the game, but put it at the top of the game.

I think that alone is worth the billions being spent. Ford gambled with the Taurus 25 years ago and it saved the company. GM is in just such a situation.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Lutz' word is on the line here, I think you will see the Volt, even if his engineers have to work around the clock. If however it does not come to fruition I think you will see Uncle Bob retire soon thereafter. Then Mr. Burns will be called to Detroit to take command, bringing with him most of his staff. Today Europe, tomorrow the Vorld (German accent here). I wish Uncle Bob all the best.

[Camino LS6]

Lutz' word is on the line here, I think you will see the Volt, even if his engineers have to work around the clock. If however it does not come to fruition I think you will see Uncle Bob retire soon thereafter. Then Mr. Burns will be called to Detroit to take command, bringing with him most of his staff. Today Europe, tomorrow the Vorld (German accent here). I wish Uncle Bob all the best.

Long live Uncle Bob! :AH-HA_wink:

[smk4565]

Mercedes is actually going to beat GM on lithium-ion batteries with the 2009 S-class hybrid. GM may have the first plug-in hybrid but Toyota also claims they'll do it in 2010. The Volt is a car GM desperately needs, but I don't know if it can be called a "game changer" if Toyota has one also, or if the Volt is near $40,000.

From Business Week...

"Mercedes says the S400 BlueHybrid, powered by a 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine in combination with an electric motor will deliver a combined 299 hp and 277 lb-ft of torque. Fuel economy of the car would be nearly 30 mpg.

Mercedes expects to foollow the S400 with a second lithium-ion hybrid, the S300 Bluetec Hybrid, which combine a 2.2-liter, twin-turbocharged, four-cylinder diesel engine with an electric motor. That car will achieve almost 44 mpg."

The S400 has the CTS, Tahoe Hybrid and LS600h beat by 10 mpg, that is pretty impressive. I know people will want to knock the 4 cylinder diesel, but think of how many S-Classes are in cities like New York, London, Tokyo, Berlin, etc chauffeuring CEOs around, and sit in traffic most of the day and never get above 35 mph.

[z28luvr01]

If however it does not come to fruition I think you will see Uncle Bob retire soon thereafter. Then Mr. Burns will be called to Detroit to take command, bringing with him most of his staff. Today Europe, tomorrow the Vorld (German accent here). I wish Uncle Bob all the best.

Funny you mention that, because that was one of the questions. I didn't mention it because it wasn't pertinent to the Vol. Lutz answered that by responding that even if he were to leave, the leadership at GM knows that the bold, risktaking approach taken by GM currently is the way to go. They understand that taking the safe, cautious approach that GM used before he got there just will not work. At the Pontiac dinner I brought up Lutz' blog, and we got into a conversation about how much they love Lutz. They said that even though they occasionally have to do some damage control when he speaks, it's well worth it. He says it like it is, never reads the script, and not afraid to ruffle feathers. The proof is in the pudding - everyone I spoke to had just an awesome attitude. They were excited about the cars they created, and looking forward to he challenges facing them. They know they're in deep doo-doo with the CAFE regs, but they are not shrinking down from it. They want to face it head on.

Moral of the story, if Mr. Burns gets the job, he better not screw up what Lutz created, or GM is screwed.

[z28luvr01]

Mercedes is actually going to beat GM on lithium-ion batteries with the 2009 S-class hybrid. GM may have the first plug-in hybrid but Toyota also claims they'll do it in 2010. The Volt is a car GM desperately needs, but I don't know if it can be called a "game changer" if Toyota has one also, or if the Volt is near $40,000.

From Business Week...

"Mercedes says the S400 BlueHybrid, powered by a 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine in combination with an electric motor will deliver a combined 299 hp and 277 lb-ft of torque. Fuel economy of the car would be nearly 30 mpg.

Mercedes expects to foollow the S400 with a second lithium-ion hybrid, the S300 Bluetec Hybrid, which combine a 2.2-liter, twin-turbocharged, four-cylinder diesel engine with an electric motor. That car will achieve almost 44 mpg."

The S400 has the CTS, Tahoe Hybrid and LS600h beat by 10 mpg, that is pretty impressive. I know people will want to knock the 4 cylinder diesel, but think of how many S-Classes are in cities like New York, London, Tokyo, Berlin, etc chauffeuring CEOs around, and sit in traffic most of the day and never get above 35 mph.

Those are impressve stats for the Benz, but remind the rest of the board what the price range is of the S class and its competition. I should be able to afford a Volt and a G8 GXP to use on weekends for that price.

[Olds Guy]

Although I like Lutz and would disappointed if his reign ended in him leaving because this didnt pan out, Larry is a very intelligent guy and if the Lutz-itude stays that may also be a good combination.

BTW, z28, I live the VH pic!

[enzl]

If I'm wrong, I'll be man enough to admit it.

I might even try to go positive every once in a while.

[Camino LS6]

If I'm wrong, I'll be man enough to admit it.

I might even try to go positive every once in a while.

[deftonesfan867]

The Volt is NOT a Hybrid tho, so why is it getting compared to them? There is NOTHING like the Volt in the pipeline from any company besides GM.

[-Camaro-]

The Volt is NOT a Hybrid tho, so why is it getting compared to them? There is NOTHING like the Volt in the pipeline from any company besides GM.

As far as we know... With all the talk about Volt, it gets a lot of hype, but competitors could copy or get a similar product out earlier. Keeping quiet almost assures no one will try to beat you.

[67impss]

If you think about it GM has been using all of the technoligy except the lithium ion batteries. The ev1 for the controls, GM ElectraMotive for the drive system. All they have to do is package and merge the systems into an auto. If any one corp. can do it it would be GM

Also have you herd the comercials that a railroad corp. has been playing about the kind of mpg that trains get? I know that the rolling resistance is almost non egsistant but there's something to be said for tuning for a generators limited rpm needs.

I may be wrong as I read the Volt info when it was posted but GM projects it will get the equivalent of 150mpg on bat. and 75 on gas and that was before the oil burner was even brought up there wont be any hybred that could match let alone surpass these stats.

My only hope is that they offer this system in a wide range of cars and trucks econo cars, lux, hi preformance, SUVs RVs lets not reinvent the car that we drive, just the way we propel them

And yes the post cant end without mention of a replacement for 84" wide rwd bof station wagon that goes and handles like a ZR1(still gotta dream ;-)

[smk4565]

The Volt is NOT a Hybrid tho, so why is it getting compared to them? There is NOTHING like the Volt in the pipeline from any company besides GM.

Toyota said they would have a plug in car in 2010, and Ford is working on a plug in Escape hybrid. The Tesla Roadster is already in production and is electric only, no gas engine at all, and can go 221 miles on one charge. The Volt goes 40 miles on one charge. The Tesla roadster is 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, that beats an M3 or Corvette.

The Volt is an important car for GM, but other companies are working on similar cars, GM isn't going to be the only one with a car like the Volt.

[deftonesfan867]

Toyota said they would have a plug in car in 2010, and Ford is working on a plug in Escape hybrid. The Tesla Roadster is already in production and is electric only, no gas engine at all, and can go 221 miles on one charge. The Volt goes 40 miles on one charge. The Tesla roadster is 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, that beats an M3 or Corvette.

The Volt is an important car for GM, but other companies are working on similar cars, GM isn't going to be the only one with a car like the Volt.

The Tesla is expensive for one, and secondly isn't both Toyota and Ford's plug in's just plug in version's of there existing hybrids? I don't think I've read anywhere where it states that they would be powered (motivated down the road) purely by electricity like the Volt would be.

Edited March 21, 2008 by deftonesfan867

[cletus8269]

if this is the 2010 toyo you speak of, i saw this back when the fj cruiser was a concept... if thats the case toyo is dragging their heels this time around and GM deserves to beat them to the punch.

[PurdueGuy]

Toyota said they would have a plug in car in 2010, and Ford is working on a plug in Escape hybrid. The Tesla Roadster is already in production and is electric only, no gas engine at all, and can go 221 miles on one charge. The Volt goes 40 miles on one charge. The Tesla roadster is 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, that beats an M3 or Corvette.

The Volt is an important car for GM, but other companies are working on similar cars, GM isn't going to be the only one with a car like the Volt.

None of those are series hybrids. You want to compare plug-in hybrids, look up info on the upcoming plug-in Vue and compare that with others. A series hybrid is notably different than just a plug in hybrid. Particularly because once they develop the first car, engineering will have a pretty easy time designing car #2, #3, and so on with different provisions for electricity - diesel, fuel cell, whatever. A plug-in hybrid squeezes every last bit of efficiency out of ICE design, but the series hybrid design could allow GM to take major steps toward any number of alternative fuel sources, and after the volt, with relative engineering ease.

[Blake Noble]

Moral of the story, if Mr. Burns gets the job, he better not screw up what Lutz created, or GM is screwed.

Mr. Burns had better learn how to build something other than sewing machines! :AH-HA_wink:

[...] Larry is a very intelligent guy and if the Lutz-itude stays that may also be a good combination.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but you have the wrong Mr. Burns. Please refer to the directory for assistance. :AH-HA_wink:

[Blake Noble]

The Volt is NOT a Hybrid tho, so why is it getting compared to them? There is NOTHING like the Volt in the pipeline from any company besides GM.

Exactly. The Volt is, in layman's terms, an electric car that can regenerate most of the charge it loses over the duration of a trip. It does not run on the gas motor, it is only there as a generator, as a back-up. Sort of like how a ... hospital, for example, will have a few generators to make electricity when the power grid is down, after it has been knocked out during a bad thunderstorm, to keep the life-support equipment going. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited March 22, 2008 by YellowJacket894