Big 3 tactics

[cletus8269]

article i found on the wall street journal about what chevy, ford, and chrysler plan to do when the forcast is down...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205932520...p_us_whats_news

"Most auto makers have been forecasting industry sales of 15.5 million to 15.7 million cars and light trucks this year, down from nearly 17 million two years ago. But turmoil on Wall Street has raised concerns that vehicle sales could come in even lower. A new forecast by J.D. Power & Associates earlier this week put industry-wide sales of light-duty cars and trucks this year at 14.95 million, the lowest level since 1994."

be sure to watch the video clip to for some "advice" on what they should be doing by two... professionals?

Edited March 20, 2008 by cletus8269

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night........."

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why must Wall Street talk out of it's ass and screw with everything and everyone at all times?

Seriously, our society would be much better off without it being reported as "fact" or "prediction" every time some two bit hack analyst farts.

[enzl]

Why must Wall Street talk out of it's ass and screw with everything and everyone at all times?

Seriously, our society would be much better off without it being reported as "fact" or "prediction" every time some two bit hack analyst farts.

On the contrary...it's their JOB to predict such matters.

Ever see financial results analysts term 'disappointing'?...that's because somebody (a professional, generally with years of experience in that industry) made a prediction and that expectation wasn't met....It's every industry, not just autos.

If you have pension, a 401k, heck, even a relative with some money, these should be concerns of yours as well.

Ignorance isn't always bliss.

[regfootball]

journalists are hardly experts in their field. writing about something they didn't have enough knowledge to get a real high paying job about was all they could find. so your scraping the bottom of the barrel to find people who really aren't knowledgable about what they write about.

[enzl]

journalists are hardly experts in their field. writing about something they didn't have enough knowledge to get a real high paying job about was all they could find. so your scraping the bottom of the barrel to find people who really aren't knowledgable about what they write about.

Journalists aren't smart? Or well paid? Or knowledgeable?

You need to get your head out of the blogs every once in a while...The Wall Street Journal is a moderately legitimate source, even if they don't share your point of view, no?

Edited March 21, 2008 by enzl

[loki]

On the contrary...it's their JOB to predict such matters.

Ever see financial results analysts term 'disappointing'?...that's because somebody (a professional, generally with years of experience in that industry) made a prediction and that expectation wasn't met....It's every industry, not just autos.

If you have pension, a 401k, heck, even a relative with some money, these should be concerns of yours as well.

Ignorance isn't always bliss.

yeah.. people inside the company can do that... "predictors" on wall street should get a real job. LOL

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

On the contrary...it's their JOB to predict such matters.

Ever see financial results analysts term 'disappointing'?...that's because somebody (a professional, generally with years of experience in that industry) made a prediction and that expectation wasn't met....It's every industry, not just autos.

If you have pension, a 401k, heck, even a relative with some money, these should be concerns of yours as well.

Ignorance isn't always bliss.

Umm, yeah...

<--- Definitely worked at a major investment firm. I know all about the predictions. But it's a different thing entirely to rampantly spread pure speculation and cause panic (Often for the sake of making $$$)

The automakers, people who actually know what they're talking about, have made predictions. However the "turmoil on Wall Street" that the article discusses is nothing more than some loud mouthed fat cat who may or may not have been taken out of context.

Edited March 22, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[balthazar]

>>"Ever see financial results analysts term 'disappointing'?...that's because somebody (a professional, generally with years of experience in that industry) made a prediction and that expectation wasn't met....It's every industry, not just autos."<<

Predictions in the financial industry are almost always an average of numerous opinions... and therefore there is always a range of predictions. Are they close? Often, yes. Are they spot on? Often, no- the range is wider that one would think while being sourced from 'professionals'.

>>"Journalists aren't smart? Or well paid? Or knowledgeable?"<<

They may be these things, tho it's certainly not a prerequisite. What they often display, however, is laziness and/or sloppiness. Simple factual errors are as common as toyotas.

Then there's the pressure --editorially-sourced, most likely, tho some is no doubt peer-sourced-- to sell magazines/newspapers/web clicks, so the straightforward usually takes the backseat to Mr Finger-Popping Hipness and Mrs Cliche'd-to-Death. News is secondary to 'entertainment', and most entertainment is fluff. How much smarts does it take to do entertainment?

My issue with the WSJ piece is there is no mention of toyota or the other foreign manufacturers- toyota earns 75% of it's global profit from the U.S., and while they have enough cash to weather a few years (10?) of a downturn, they & all the others must also plan for a contracting U.S. market if they have any sense. So what are their plans ?? There is no mention of foreign makes whatsoever. Journalists' phones too heavy to lift to get a quote there ??

The unwritten implication is : 'they're not mentioned, because they don't NEED to care'.

[regfootball]

bottom line is US sales this year may not crack 15mill and GM is not the only company, nor ford or chrysler, that has to brace for this.

when the market contracts, share is what is crucial.

toyota can't expect their business to go up either.

why these stories always have to be doom and gloom for detroit shows the ignorance of the media. can we also talk about acura's sedan sales in the &#036;h&#33;ter (at least edmunds dug the claws out for the 09 tsx review)? or how many bread and butter cars like the fusion and focus are on the uptick, even if Lexus has many models that are down?

what has toyota done to address this market downturn and gas prices? Tundra, Sequioa, 70k IS Lexuses. etc. mere reskin of the matrix and corolla instead of new cars. Let's talk about how skewed toyota's priorities are.

Edited March 22, 2008 by regfootball

[ZL-1]

why these stories always have to be doom and gloom for detroit shows the ignorance of the media.

No, it shows who's in a weaker position. GM's CFO presentation to analysts a few days ago has an estimate of a USD 2-3bn negative impact on liquidity if US sales drop by 1 million units, assuming constant US market share. An even bigger drop in sales will surely have a more than proportional effect on GM's cash generation and cash position, which are GM's nr.1 priority, financially. Ford and Chrysler are facing the same issues, while Toyota has been on the rise. It's only natural that the news interest/focus is on companies that have the greatest challenges ahead, especially those that are trying to execute/consolidate turnarounds in a difficult economic environment.

[CARBIZ]

Journalists aren't smart? Or well paid? Or knowledgeable?

You need to get your head out of the blogs every once in a while...The Wall Street Journal is a moderately legitimate source, even if they don't share your point of view, no?

Not speaking specifically about the Wall Street Journal, journalists are a bunch of lazy sods. They also have to tow the party line of their employers, or find themselves out on the street. I could list dozens of examples of not just poor journalism, but out and out LIES and fabrications.

There is the subtle tainted approach 'Toyota, the world's largest auto manufacturer by market valuation,' to out and out bull&#036;h&#33; (read CR retractions about the Avalon and Tundra. I could use an example, known locally here in Toronto about a certain 'shoe shine boy' who was brutally murdered a number of years ago, yet none of the local media bothered to point out that he was a male prostitute. Kinda makes the story a little less poignant, no?

On a good day, I put journalist's trustworthiness a notch above politicians. Both have axes to grind and agendas to push. An informed person will read about a news story from several sources and then judge for themselves.

I have been saying for a couple years now that the fat cats on Wallstreet are taking us all for a ride, and now I have been proven right. The pain is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

I mean whomever thought up the concept of zero down mortgages with no payback should be charged with treason. What a concept!

[enzl]

Not speaking specifically about the Wall Street Journal, journalists are a bunch of lazy sods. They also have to tow the party line of their employers, or find themselves out on the street. I could list dozens of examples of not just poor journalism, but out and out LIES and fabrications.

There is the subtle tainted approach 'Toyota, the world's largest auto manufacturer by market valuation,' to out and out bull&#036;h&#33; (read CR retractions about the Avalon and Tundra. I could use an example, known locally here in Toronto about a certain 'shoe shine boy' who was brutally murdered a number of years ago, yet none of the local media bothered to point out that he was a male prostitute. Kinda makes the story a little less poignant, no?

On a good day, I put journalist's trustworthiness a notch above politicians. Both have axes to grind and agendas to push. An informed person will read about a news story from several sources and then judge for themselves.

I have been saying for a couple years now that the fat cats on Wallstreet are taking us all for a ride, and now I have been proven right. The pain is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

I mean whomever thought up the concept of zero down mortgages with no payback should be charged with treason. What a concept!

To throw every journalist into the same category is dangerous. This article, to me, restates the obvious..but not everyone is as well informed as we are when it comes to the Auto industry. If it Bleeds, it leads still applies to the business section.

BIZ...most carsalesmen are sh!t, yet you appear to be an honest guy...so while it may be true about car salesmen, we can both agree there exists many smart, honest well informed, well meaning individuals in the car sales game, no? In the same vein, I think the WSJ employs mostly legitimate, solid writers---the issue here is really about the topic and the dire picture painted. I'm not sure if many on this board realize that 'Doom & Gloom' isn't an incredibly inaccurate descriptive of the 2.8's situation? That's pretty big news, isn't it?

The automakers struggles have caught the attention of 'fatcats', to be sure. But let's not be disingenuous regarding the horrific boardroom level decision-making that have brought Detroit to this point in time.

[CARBIZ]

The media creates the news, they don't report it. I remember reading an article serveral years ago where an Israeli General complained that every time the Palestinians had a peaceful rally the Israeli military was obliged to escort the international media to the sensitive areas to 'cover' the peaceful rally. Then, inevitably, once the Palestinians saw the Israeli trucks, the peaceful rally turned into a brawl, which the media dutifully reported. Too much information can be a bad thing. It can be a dangerous thing in the hands of the stupid.

People respond in a mob mentality. If the media reports that banks and brokerages are doing badly, guess what: banks and brokerages do worse. Iaccoca talks about that in his first book, that the news of Chrysler's ill financial health in '79/'80 nearly put the company under because customers stayed away in droves - at a time when Chrysler could have used a bit of loyalty. Look at the mess we are seeing on the pages of the financial press today. I just laugh at it, because I understand the way the media thinks, but how many people in Middle America are stuffing their life savings under the mattress because of the doom and gloom press?

All around us, we are hearing the 'shocked' outrages of the financial media over the collapsing mortgage market. Hello! Wake up. What idiot couldn't have seen that one coming? And now the outraged media are demanding boycotts of the Olympics. Doesn't anyone find the timing of the unrest in Tibet, which has been going on for -what, 50 years, a little suspect? The IOC gave the Olympics to Beijing - that, in of itself a highly political move. Now whose agenda has changed?

The WallStreet Journal is most likely one of the 'better' publications out there, but who really knows where their marching orders come from.

[Camino LS6]

Here's my take on the media:

Think back to the last time you heard a story on a topic you are very familiar with, perhaps professionally, and tell me how many factual errors you noted in the story. Now, extrapolate those errors to all of the stories about which you have no special knowledge.

Scary, isn't it.

[enzl]

Oy Vey. Media Bias, again.

The Worlds Greatest Corporation has been brought to its knees by mismanagement, competition & economic forces beyond its control. I'm not sure how that's not newsworthy--furthermore, how does one spin that story into a positive, for the sake of the argument? They might not go down the toilet? They're only 4 years from profitability in their home market? The one thing they have been doing right is new product--and that's gotten great press overall.

Blaming others is an epidemic in this country. GM's plight is historic--it's a travesty and a tragedy--to expect guys selling papers to play nice is simply absurd.

[CARBIZ]

Well, you can speak from your experience, and I will speak from mine. I have witnessed the distortions and untruths the media publishes every day. I am not talking just about General Motors here. We pride ourselves with a honest and open press, but these people are human as well. More importantly, their bosses have agendas and things to prove. Ever hear of the axiom, "If the facts do not conform to the theory, then the facts must be altered?"

I have lived that, sir. I have sat through trials where the police and Crown (in your case the DA) have lied through their teeth, the media have shaken their heads in shame but reported every word as fact.

I do not wish to hijack this thread, but I have witnessed the lies and distortions. I trust the media as much as I do politicians in general. That is why I would trust open forums like C&G more than I would Reuters or the WSJ. This piling on mentality sickens me. I have witnessed major newspapers (the Toronto Sun, for example) go from rabidly anti-gay (to the point where they were trying to set-up those of us who were working on a gay youth hotline in the late '70s) to employing openly gay reporters today. I do not need a lecture on the lack of bias in the media. It has ruined many careers and people that I know.

Unfortunately, too many people actually believe what they see on TV, or read in the paper. It isn't that it is all crap, but you need to sift through more than one source of information to form one's own opinion. I have quite a few press clippings and email arguments with editors of the Toyota Star over their biased reporting, even with Ellen Roseman, their 'unbiased' business reporter who went ballistic over Hyundai lying about their horsepower ratings several years ago, yet ignoring Honda and Toyota doing far worse with theirs.

I read Toronto's 3 dailies every day and my God, you would swear you were reading three different versions of the same event in most cases!

[enzl]

Well, you can speak from your experience, and I will speak from mine. I have witnessed the distortions and untruths the media publishes every day. I am not talking just about General Motors here. We pride ourselves with a honest and open press, but these people are human as well. More importantly, their bosses have agendas and things to prove. Ever hear of the axiom, "If the facts do not conform to the theory, then the facts must be altered?"

I have lived that, sir. I have sat through trials where the police and Crown (in your case the DA) have lied through their teeth, the media have shaken their heads in shame but reported every word as fact.

I do not wish to hijack this thread, but I have witnessed the lies and distortions. I trust the media as much as I do politicians in general. That is why I would trust open forums like C&G more than I would Reuters or the WSJ. This piling on mentality sickens me. I have witnessed major newspapers (the Toronto Sun, for example) go from rabidly anti-gay (to the point where they were trying to set-up those of us who were working on a gay youth hotline in the late '70s) to employing openly gay reporters today. I do not need a lecture on the lack of bias in the media. It has ruined many careers and people that I know.

Unfortunately, too many people actually believe what they see on TV, or read in the paper. It isn't that it is all crap, but you need to sift through more than one source of information to form one's own opinion. I have quite a few press clippings and email arguments with editors of the Toyota Star over their biased reporting, even with Ellen Roseman, their 'unbiased' business reporter who went ballistic over Hyundai lying about their horsepower ratings several years ago, yet ignoring Honda and Toyota doing far worse with theirs.

I read Toronto's 3 dailies every day and my God, you would swear you were reading three different versions of the same event in most cases!

I can't argue about your personal experiences...but your argument makes it impossible to believe anything that wasn't personally witnessed--which is slightly impractical.

While there are innumerable abuses of power in our society, I would hope that this fact doesn't render all information unusable. I can't (and won't) defend homophobic neanderthals---but taking your factual info about GM from C&G might not be the most neutral viewpoint either.

In any case, most of the bad news about GM is sourced from GM--check out their quarterly reports. Or their inconsistent statements about the Volt. Or their sales figures. It's mostly there in black & white...and there's very little confusion about what this info reveals: A Giant in deep, possibly irreversible trouble--and asking pundits not to pile on this is just naive--this is what they do! Additionally, there is a highly relevant concern for current GM shoppers---GM may not last as long as your warranty---unfortunately, that is a very practical consideration, and a possible outcome in all of this.

[zhawk]

Its not that everything is 'impossible to believe but that most reports must be looked at critically and taken with a grain of salt. Most of us here are honest enough (I would hope) to admit that this site won't always be as source of unbiased information but let's be realistic. We have all seen reports that were closer to fiction than reality.

It's not bias, its laziness and an unwillingness to go against the grain. Many people are like that, but the media helps shape the thoughts and desires of the public.

[regfootball]

imagine if the carmakers didn't have to spend $$$ to hire PR departments whose seemingly sole task these days is to mind f_ck the mass media into creating a free PR machine.....(as long as they pay the ad bills...)

[daves87rs]

Its not that everything is 'impossible to believe but that most reports must be looked at critically and taken with a grain of salt. Most of us here are honest enough (I would hope) to admit that this site won't always be as source of unbiased information but let's be realistic. We have all seen reports that were closer to fiction than reality.

It's not bias, its laziness and an unwillingness to go against the grain. Many people are like that, but the media helps shape the thoughts and desires of the public.

Agreed. And a shame too...