V6 Challenger looks good

[ocnblu]

Autoweek has a gallery up of the full line of Dodge Challengers. Here's a link to a pic of a blue V6 Challenger. Not bad atall, imo. My only problem is, no manual transmission with the 3.5L V6.

[ToniCipriani]

Other than to simplify production, why on earth are all the manufacturers forcing everyone to drive automatics?

[Robert Hall]

Other than to simplify production, why on earth are all the manufacturers forcing everyone to drive automatics?

Because so few North Americans actually know how to use a manual, let alone buy them... aren't manuals like 3% of total sales in NA?

Edited March 19, 2008 by moltar

[Z-06]

Because so few North Americans actually know how to use a manual, let alone buy them... aren't manuals like 3% of total sales in NA?

More close to 8-9%.

I think 1 in every 12 cars.

[Robert Hall]

More close to 8-9%.

I think 1 in every 12 cars.

Interesting..a lot higher than I thought. I'm always amazed at the people I know my age (late 30s) that admit they can't drive a stick.

[Camino LS6]

We have become a nation of lazy wimps - the rest of the world still knows how to drive a manual.

[Z-06]

We have become a nation of lazy wimps - the rest of the world still knows how to drive a manual.

And owns close to 50% cars in that mode.

[buyacargetacheck]

Not bad for an old looking car that can't outrun a Camry or Accord V6. The Boomers are getting older so they probably won't mind. They'll buy it for the memories anyway.

[regfootball]

a 2 door coupe like this should have a manual v6 option.

face it, the main reason manuals have nearly gone extinct is due to traffic / congestion issues.

I would LOVE a 3 pedal car.....but it would be nice to have a button to flick to turn it into auto mode where you would not need to keep pumping the clutch.

DSG is very close to that, but where's the 3rd pedal? Obviously even with DSG, VW still sees the need for true 3 pedal.

[The O.C.]

More close to 8-9%.

I think 1 in every 12 cars.

And most manuals sold are small economy cars anyway.

I vastly prefer a manual transmission......and have had one in any car that I could get it in. Problem is, aside from something like the Corvette, I've had to special order it (like in the CTS and a Jeep Liberty I had, etc.)

Some European cars with specific models and engine combos....don't even offer an automatic!

I think the BIG reason why we are a nation of automatic-trans drivers stems from our domestic auto industry. Up until the 80's I'd say, the domestics held a tight hold on the majority of market share in this country.....and the cars and trucks they've been selling here were big, cushy, and automatic-trans-equipped. Cars in Europe have traditionally been smaller, sportier, and manual-trans-equipped.

It's just what people are used to growing up in.

(edit: And it IS in many cases cost-prohibitive to engineer, but more importantly, certify a manual transmission for installation in a certain product....that you estimate only 2-3% of buyers will choose. Don't be surprised if there is NO V6 manual Camaro either......)

Edited March 19, 2008 by The O.C.

[Z-06]

I think the BIG reason why we are a nation of automatic-trans drivers stems from our domestic auto industry. Up until the 80's I'd say, the domestics held a tight hold on the majority of market share in this country.....and the cars and trucks they've been selling here were big, cushy, and automatic-trans-equipped.

That answers the stigma. Even GM took off the manuals from the GMT 900s. It is more profit for the manufacturers to shove automatics into people.

1. By making crummy manuals.

2. By offering less horsepower with the manual version (e.g. GMT 800 Silverado HD diesel in 2004-06)

3. By not keeping any manual transmission on the lots

were one of many strategies that diverted the customers to look into automatics.

[The O.C.]

That answers the stigma. Even GM took off the manuals from the GMT 900s. It is more profit for the manufacturers to shove automatics into people.

1. By making crummy manuals.

2. By offering less horsepower with the manual version (e.g. GMT 800 Silverado HD diesel in 2004-06)

3. By not keeping any manual transmission on the lots

were one of many strategies that diverted the customers to look into automatics.

Frankly, I'm surprised GM is offering a manual tranny in the new CTS.......I'm glad....but surprised.......

And you are right about the "crummy" manuals. GM has NEVER invested appropriate product development in their manual transmissions (or related components like the clutch, etc.)

My CTS probably comes closest to matching the imports.....the Aisin 6-speed is a smooth-shifter.....but the clutch in my car is vague (typical GM) and nowhere near as smooth to snap off fast, smooth shifts as my A4 (or the BMW 330's I had....)

The Corvette was crap. My '06 Tremec was an embarrasment. I'm surprised the car doesn't get ripped on more in the press for that. The shifter is simply awful. The clutch, however, was relatively light and easy to modulate though.....I'm wondering how big of an improvement the '08 is...?

[Camino LS6]

Certain vehicles can justify a manual option, and the G8 is one of them. The Challenger is another.

The thing is, buyers who opt for the V6 are trying to get the look without the price. So, the take rate on a manual in V6 cars is harder to justify.

For me, lack of a V8 or a manual is a dealbreaker - that's not the case for most V6 buyers.

The Challenger V6s will sell on style alone.

[A Horse With No Name]

While I agree it will sell on style alone it would still be nice to be able to get the car with a stick.

Chris

[Blake Noble]

The thing is, buyers who opt for the V6 are trying to get the look without the price. So, the take rate on a manual in V6 cars is harder to justify.

Just some food for thought: I'm going with the V6 model Camaro because I cannot afford the V8 model. Insurance and the sticker price shut that option down for me, sadly. However, there are ways to milk a V6 for all it is worth, and knowing that, it makes me a little less unsatisfied.

I just hope that Chevy doesn't take Dodge's approach with the Challenger and offer auto-only V6 models. That would highly upset me; a manual transmission is a must option for any car I want to buy. Ford offers a shift-them-yourself option with the Mustang V6, so why would the folks at Chrysler Corp. (and even potentially GM) risk losing any sort of sale to their competitor by skimping out with a V6 manual option?

Being in the minority is a nightmare.

Edited March 19, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Camino LS6]

I'm with you Chris, if I had to drive one with the V6 I'd want to have the manual to ease the pain too. It's just a tougher case to make than the V8 manual.

Ticks me off every time a manual is not offered due to the ignorance of the public when it comes to shifting for yourself. I think everyone should know how - even if they'd never choose a manual.

[balthazar]

This is certainly not an issue with 'the manufacturers force-feeding the market automatics'. Manuals were standard in everything (even Cadillacs) for years after they debuted, and some makes, even their full-sizers, had standard manuals decades & decades after the auto first appeared (Pontiac: 1st year manual standard- 1926. 1st automatic as an option- 1948. 1st year automatic standard (full-size cars)- 1971). 23 years is a very long time for an automotive trend, but the point is- installation percentages AS AN OPTION increased slowly but steadily year after year.

The automatic is viewed by most consumers just like any other convenience feature; a time & effort saver, just like delay wipers, ABS, automatic headlights, power steering, etc, etc, etc...; it makes driving easier. Thusly, over 40- or 50-some years, sure; the auto trans has become more & more & more popular. At one point many european brands NEVER had autos- their installation percentages have risen greatly over time, also. Just like cruise control, A/C, power windows, etc etc.

reg makes an excellent point RE congestion here in the U.S., too.

I've driven a bunch of different manuals from all sorts of eras, I prefer autos. That said, I do think most cars should offer both. But I would not agree with the term "ignorance".

Edited March 19, 2008 by balthazar

[Camino LS6]

This is certainly not an issue with 'the manufacturers force-feeding the market automatics'. Manuals were standard in everything (even Cadillacs) for years after they debuted, and some makes, even their full-sizers, had standard manuals decades & decades after the auto first appeared (Pontiac: 1st year manual standard- 1926. 1st automatic as an option- 1948. 1st year automatic standard (full-size cars)- 1971). 23 years is a very long time for an automotive trend, but the point is- installation percentages AS AN OPTION increased slowly but steadily year after year.

The automatic is viewed by most consumers just like any other convenience feature; a time & effort saver, just like delay wipers, ABS, automatic headlights, power steering, etc, etc, etc...; it makes driving easier. Thusly, over 40- or 50-some years, sure; the auto trans has become more & more & more popular. At one point many european brands NEVER had autos- their installation percentages have risen greatly over time, also. Just like cruise control, A/C, power windows, etc etc.

reg makes an excellent point RE congestion here in the U.S., too.

I've driven a bunch of different manuals from all sorts of eras, I prefer autos. That said, I do think most cars should offer both. But I would not agree with the term "ignorance".

I only meant ignorance in the the true sense of the word, a huge number of people in this country simply don't know how to drive a manual car - thus "ignorance".

[ocnblu]

I love driving a manual transmission, but I really like this Challenger SE for the overall package. Hmmm...

[regfootball]

prediction, manual trans option gone from CTS in a couple years. (CTSv to still have). The G8 will carry the stick torch.

[Cory Wolfe]

I only meant ignorance in the the true sense of the word, a huge number of people in this country simply don't know how to drive a manual car - thus "ignorance".

I agree. If my Mom could learn to drive one, it's certainly not rocket science.

[balthazar]

I only meant ignorance in the the true sense of the word, a huge number of people in this country simply don't know how to drive a manual car - thus "ignorance".

Yeah- I figured you meant that, but others have said it and others still will read a lot more into it.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah- I figured you meant that, but others have said it and others still will read a lot more into it.

Yeah, too many people confuse 'ignorant' with 'stupid'. For example, there is an infinite amount of GM engine trivia that I'm ignorant of, but I'm not stupid..

[Delta Force79]

Wow I must say the V6 model looks pretty sweet. They really didnt dull it down with cheap looking wheels and dull trim. If it weren't for the lack of dual exhausts and probably some interior trim, I would take a V6 Challenger just based on gas alone. But alas I still want an R/T.

[CMG]

I have a feeling the present V6s won't get much in the way of attention as far as manual transmissions go, with the Phoenix V6 coming in 2010.

I'm more impressed with the Challenger than I thought I would be, it's not bad as far as what they were going after, but sales will tell the story- in 2009 and beyond..... as the first year Challengers are all sold long ago.

The SRT8 cars will be the only ones out at first, which I kinda think was a good idea, image wise..?

[ocnblu]

Those wheels are optional on the V6 SE, 18" machined-face aluminum (which is also the standard wheel on the R/T). Standard equipment is a 17" sparkle silver wheel cover. Edited March 20, 2008 by ocnblu